Should I apply this year or wait until my application is perfect?

[haitwun]

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It is almost summer and I am having alot of trouble making up my mind whether or not I should apply this year. I'm graduating in a week and so life after college is about to hit me. So the following are my stats:
GPA: 3.2
MCAT: not taken yet
animal experience: ~900 hours
other experience: US army combat medic 4 years, 1 year research experience working in stroke lab.

I guess "perfect" isn't an appropriate word here. What I need to know is whether I should take time to improve my application stats or should I just apply and see what happens?

My GPA sux so I really need to rock the MCAT. BTW, I believe that as medical professionals, vets should be held to the same standards as our human physician counterparts. Therefore, I will only apply to schools that take the MCAT. That is like...Western, U of Missouri, Tuskegee, Michigan State and St.George. However, I still haven't taken the test yet but will do so by the end of this year. Ideally, I'd like to go to Western since it is only a 15 minute drive from my house.

My biggest problem is lack of animal experience. So far, I've only racked up 900 hours from my volunteer work. Western's minimum to apply is 500. They said that most applicants have 1500 at the time of application but in order to be competitive, they recommend 3000. I got a long way to go...

I'm already 22 years old. If I get accepted this coming year, I will be able to finish vet school by the age of 28. I really want to start working before the age of 30.

So...what do you guys think? Should I roll the dice and see what happens or wait another year and beef up my stats?

 

[cyrille104]

If you start vet school next year, and you're 22 now, you'll start when you're 23 and you should finish when you're 27 - it's 4 years. You could wait another 3 years and still start working when you're 30. Also, were you an active combat medic or was it an ROTC kind of thing? Both are great experience, but obviously active duty and reserve are different "life experiences", so I'm wondering which.

Ok, we need to talk about this MCAT business. First of all, vet students are expected to have 1500-2000 exp hours and med students don't need to have nearly that much, so I don't know where you're coming from with this "same standard = MCAT" mentality. Second of all, it's HARDER to get into vet school than med school, so doesn't that mean vets are held to HIGHER standards? Finally, vet schools used to take the VCAT, but it was discontinued NOT because vets aren't held to the same standard, but because not enough students took the test for it to be profitable. The schools had no control over it. You really need to reconsider your position on this, because a) veterinary medicine is very different from human medicine, and worrying about who is being held to what standard is a bit naive, and b) you really can't be picky about the schools you apply to. Sorry for the tough love...moving on 🙂

Get more experience instead of taking with the MCAT. It will help you INFINITELY more. Whatever your beliefs about vets and doctors, the admissions committee doesn't care. The admissions committee wants to see strong scores, and they do NOT favor either one!

With a 3.2 and only 900 hours, the chances of getting in this year are slim. I would take the year off and rack up some experience hours, take the GRE, and then apply. But, unlike human med, there's no harm in applying two years in a row. So you might just try it anyway and see what happens, while trying to improve your app for the next cycle in case you don't get in. Good luck

 

[GallopRealyFast]

On the topic of experience hours how are you supposed to log/proove them? These 1000's of hours are they estimates? Its because I've been a barn rat every day since I was 11 now I'm 20. I have definately been around/on horses for thousands of hours working, showing, owning one, etc. etc. etc.. Another question, I have not nearly as much experience with other animals as I do with horses (and barely any hours in a veterinary setting) and there is a horse vet nearby (a stationary one, not one that drives around). As far as livestock, they are nowhere to be found within a 100 mile radius of me. Should I start out shadowing at the horse vet or not waste my time because I have all that horse experience and work on getting experience with small animal,exotic, or zoo vets first? This board is very helpful thank you for your advice everybody.

 

[ri23]

I agree with Cyrille on the first count, though OSU accepts the MCAT as well. What are you going to do if your MCAT score is not as competitive and they suggest you take the GRE and reapply? Would you take it then? That is something that commonly happens. The reason that we do not take the MCAT is that it tests over a subject that is not required for admission to all vet schools I believe. Though I agree that the job of a vet is just as difficult there really isn't a reason to stress out over the MCAT when everyone else is taking the GRE - there are going to be many differences down the road that you won't be able to change like that.

As for GallopRealyFast - Technically taking care of your own horses isn't supposed to count in the Animal Experience section (I believe), though I'm sure you've probably acquired a great deal of other horse hours. There is no technical log that they check, you are just expected to be honest on the VMCAS. As for the vet experience, it is essential. I would probably focus my time in a small animal practice or zoo setting to get varied experience. Volunteering with the equine vet occassionaly certainly wouldn't hurt though.

 

[cyrille104]

On the topic of experience hours how are you supposed to log/proove them? These 1000's of hours are they estimates? Its because I've been a barn rat every day since I was 11 now I'm 20. I have definately been around/on horses for thousands of hours working, showing, owning one, etc. etc. etc.. Another question, I have not nearly as much experience with other animals as I do with horses (and barely any hours in a veterinary setting) and there is a horse vet nearby (a stationary one, not one that drives around). As far as livestock, they are nowhere to be found within a 100 mile radius of me. Should I start out shadowing at the horse vet or not waste my time because I have all that horse experience and work on getting experience with small animal,exotic, or zoo vets first? This board is very helpful thank you for your advice everybody.

You don't have to "prove" your experience, although they do ask your recommenders how many hours you've worked, so it's hard to lie. Just make sure you're on the same page with the person writing the recommendation, and don't exaggerate because I'm sure it's easy to get caught.

Sounds like you have tons of equine experience - for sure go for small animal first, then exotic/zoo, then livestock if you ever get the chance.

 

[philomycus]

Apply. I was going with the assumption I'd get rejected the 1st year anyway. I got on one alt list and one interview. Just apply narrow and focused (not to too many schools). Apply!

 

[wivet2011]

I too have to agree with cyrille on the MCAT issue. While there may be many similarities between human med and vet med, they are not the same and the standards are not the same. Fact is, many pre-vet advisors suggest that pre-vet students also apply to med school as a backup since it is many times easier to get into med school than vet school. (always kinda disturbed me that you might not be 'good enough' to operate on the family dog, but the kid...no prob.!!)

In regards to GallopRealyFast's question, I was told by an advisor at one of the vet schools, that you should include experiences with your own animals as 'Personal Animal Experiences. Obviously, taking care of your own critters isn't one of those Xhrs a day Xdays a week type of experiences, so you can always fill in the hours with x's and explain it (If I remember, there is a spot to explain the x hours at the end if you want to. I assumed the adcoms would figure it out without an explanation!)

Back to op question: go ahead and apply this year. Yeah, your gpa isn't great, but schools also look for diversity, so your medic experience may work in your favor. So, apply, keep getting animal experience in the meantime and see what happens!

Good Luck

 

[kate_g]

BTW, I believe that as medical professionals, vets should be held to the same standards as our human physician counterparts.

Not only will you be expected to provide care as good as a human can get, but you'll be expected to provide it for a ridiculous fraction of the cost.

More to the point, standards of practice are determined by organizations like the AVMA (or AMA) and state licensing boards, and have nothing to do with what test you took to get into school. In fact, the test you took ceases to matter pretty much the minute you get your acceptance letter.

(Would you really pass over a vet who'd graduated top of their class and completed the most competitive internship and residency just because they'd taken the GRE instead of the MCAT to get into vet school way-back-when?)

Given you claim 4 years as a medic, it sounds like you might have a touch of vets-aren't-real-doctors syndrome. It's a common condition among (human) medical professionals. Unfortunately, in veterinary professionals (especially those transitioning from careers in human medicine) the disease usually manifests as a chronic inferiority complex and/or a tendency toward strong defensive posturing in situations of comparison between human and animal medicine. You should seek treatment immediately, because an attitude like that won't get you very far with vet school admissions committees. 😉

EDIT: Per wildfocus' observation below, I have to emphasize that my comments on your symptoms should not be taken as a diagnosis, and that you should consult your own medical/veterinary/mental heath practitioner for advice... 😀

 

[wildfocus]

it sounds like you might have a touch of vets-aren't-real-doctors syndrome.

can we offer treatment options for this syndrome even though this is sdn??

 

[soxbox]

just my $.02

there is NO such thing as a perfect application!!! I had a bunch of friends applying to school this year and some of them had spectacular applications and I thought for sure they would get in everywhere... Well lo and behold all the schools I was accepted to they were rejected from and vice versa...

worst case is you dont get in and you are out a couple hundred bucks... however there are benefits to that... you can meet with admissions afterwards to see what you can improve on, when you apply the next year it won't come as such a shock to you and the process will be a bit easier, and it shows determination and committment to the admissions committee!

it was said by someone in a previous thread: it doesnt matter anyway... the admission folks just pull the names out of a hat 🙂

so good luck and apply!! (at least to a couple schools)

 

[Monkey85]

First off I agree with those that have already responded and now I want to add my opinion. I think if you are going to compare the admissions standards of med schools vs. vet schools I think you should focus more on what courses are required than what standardized multiple choice exam you have to take.

I did a brief comparison of a few med schools and they require the same general courses that vet schools require. Gen chem, ochem, physics, biochem (depending on the school), stats, and humanities seem to be standard across the board from med school to vet school. So if you are so concerned about vet students being held to the same standard as med students I think we are.

On the subject of tests- I grew up on the east coast where SAT was king but ended up going to a midwest school where almost all my friends took the ACT. They test slightly different things but I never felt that I was held to a different standard with the other students at my school. As someone else mentioned test scores mean little after getting accepted. Standarized testing has its uses for admissions coms. but as cyrille said they don't have control over what the testing companies do with their tests.

I suggest you focus more on getting veterinary experience and reconsider your stand on standardize testing. And Cornell takes MCAT scores, just to add to your list of possible places to apply.

 

[Normed]

Just my quick two cents...

Everyone has a different background, and you never know where you'll get in or if you even will. I'm SHOCKED that I got in anywhere, and I ended up turning down Glasgow to go to RVC.

I'm lucky to have gotten in on my first try, but I have learned A LOT about the application process along the way. Like some others have said, apply with zero intentions of getting in, and use the opportunity as a learning experience to know where to improve your next time around. Applications are terrifying and stressful, but if it's truely what you want to do with your life, you'll take a positive spin on whatever response you get from your applications.

G'luck! 🙂

 

[haitwun]

Thank you everybody for the wonderful suggestions and advice. Every opinion is appreciated and especially the tough-love ones. Thanks.

Sorry if I offended anyone about the MCAT vs. GRE thing. You all made good points which I will have to think more about.

Cornell is the #1 ranked vet school in the country so I'm not even going to bother. Like Cyrille said, my chances of getting in are slim as is.

All my animal experience has been recorded but I'm not sure the exact number because I haven't checked my stats at the Marine Mammal Center lately. So far, all my experience has been with critters that swim. I wish non-recorded hours counted because I would have millions due to all my pets.

If I didn't apply this year, I was thinking of taking O-chem over again and racking up more animal experience. Or I may end up going to the middle east since Bush initiated that troop surge. So I have not been doing ROTC, I am enlisted in the Army. If I make it into vet school, the army will pay for it and I don't have to do all the enlisted stuff anymore. I just have to give them 6 years as an officer. It has been tough juggling my military obligation, animal experience and college all at the same time these last few years.

 

[dyachei]

Thank you everybody for the wonderful suggestions and advice. Every opinion is appreciated and especially the tough-love ones. Thanks.

Sorry if I offended anyone about the MCAT vs. GRE thing. You all made good points which I will have to think more about.

Cornell is the #1 ranked vet school in the country so I'm not even going to bother. Like Cyrille said, my chances of getting in are slim as is.

All my animal experience has been recorded but I'm not sure the exact number because I haven't checked my stats at the Marine Mammal Center lately. So far, all my experience has been with critters that swim. I wish non-recorded hours counted because I would have millions due to all my pets.

If I didn't apply this year, I was thinking of taking O-chem over again and racking up more animal experience. Or I may end up going to the middle east since Bush initiated that troop surge. So I have not been doing ROTC, I am enlisted in the Army. If I make it into vet school, the army will pay for it and I don't have to do all the enlisted stuff anymore. I just have to give them 6 years as an officer. It has been tough juggling my military obligation, animal experience and college all at the same time these last few years.

Rankings don't really mean all that much. You may have a chance at Cornell, just don't discount it due to rankings. If you want to go there, apply there. You never know what will happen.

 

[JumptheMoon]

Rankings don't really mean all that much. You may have a chance at Cornell, just don't discount it due to rankings. If you want to go there, apply there. You never know what will happen.

Exactly! Whether or not rankings actually mean anything is pretty controversial, but when you think about it, rankings have very little influence on your chances at a particular school - it comes down to how many spots there are vs. how many applicants want those spots (further complicated by in-state vs. out-of-state). Cornell may be ranked #1, but they also take a lot more out-of-state students than a lot of other schools. For instance, this year I got into Cornell off the waitlist, but didn't even get an interview at VA-MD.

 

[kate_g]

I wish non-recorded hours counted because I would have millions due to all my pets.

I didn't have any "recorded" hours. That is, none of my experience came from gigs where I was required to sign in or otherwise produce a record of the time I spent there. So on the application I just estimated the hours as best I could ("well, I had a four-hour shift twice a week, and I was there for about a year and a half... let's assume the fact that I often stayed an hour or two late balances the fact that I probably took a couple weeks' vacation in there somewhere, and go with 4x2x78...").

So anyway, if you have animal or vet experience that's not formally recorded anywhere, this is OK. You don't have to produce a time card log or anything, they just trust that you're not lying. (That said, VMCAS explicitly says not to include time with your own pets, which is the one specific off-the-record experience you mentioned. So... you can't include that, but you *could* include anything else you've done but not formally documented.)

 

[ri23]

Maybe rankings aren't terribly important to look at as for whether or not you think you can get in, but you should consider what the school stresses. Cornell, as well as some other schools, seem to stress academics whereas schools such as Western stress the "whole" applicant and probably look more at experience. If you are applying narrowly for your first year I would focus on schools that focus on the areas where your application is strong.

 

[OSJ]

I didn't have any "recorded" hours. That is, none of my experience came from gigs where I was required to sign in or otherwise produce a record of the time I spent there. So on the application I just estimated the hours as best I could ("well, I had a four-hour shift twice a week, and I was there for about a year and a half... let's assume the fact that I often stayed an hour or two late balances the fact that I probably took a couple weeks' vacation in there somewhere, and go with 4x2x78...").

So anyway, if you have animal or vet experience that's not formally recorded anywhere, this is OK. You don't have to produce a time card log or anything, they just trust that you're not lying. (That said, VMCAS explicitly says not to include time with your own pets, which is the one specific off-the-record experience you mentioned. So... you can't include that, but you *could* include anything else you've done but not formally documented.)

Kate- Where do you see that you can't include your pets? I'm new at this! I saw on the VMCAS to include farm, ranch, 4-H and training. Do you not include working on a farm for your own horses or training your own horses?

 

[silverelf]

You cannot include pets means that you can't count petting and feeding your dog. If your pony is just a pasture pet, it doesn't count either. However, if you did legitimate work (i.e. horse training, sheep shearing, dehorning, etc) *experience that you would have gotten if you had worked on another farm that was not owned by you* you can count it.

 

[kate_g]

You cannot include pets means that you can't count petting and feeding your dog.

I believe the instructions for the "veterinary experience" section also say not to include care of your own pets. Like, you can't count the time when the LA vet comes out to your farm and you stand around while she treats your horse (or even the time you spend giving SQ fluids at home to your geriatric cat) as veterinary experience.

 

[wivet2011]

Vet experience is for hours obtained under the supervision of a vet (including employment or job shadowing) and Animal Experience is for everything else animal related (horseback riding, etc). You can't include your own pets as Vet. Experience (even if you helped during their exams 🙂 ), but some schools rec. listing it under Animal Experience.

 

[pressmom]

I think you can also include showing dogs or doing agility, tracking, etc. under animal experience. But doing what I'm doing now (laying on the couch with my dog) doesn't count. Nor do I think a basic training class counts. I could be wrong though. In my opinion, better to include and explain than not include at all.

 

[TurboVet]

i haven't read anyone's responses yet on this thread but i'm jumping down on the bottom to tell you (or reiterate what someone(s) else has said many times) apply now! don't wait! apply every year that you've met the requirements! unless you really want to and know you can get into a specific school. but if you want to start working and paying young, go now go now! the stats and applicant pool changes every single year, and you stand the best chance of getting in when that pool is waiting for you to jump in. it's getting late- i'm getting loopy. but- as someone who applied 4 times before getting in, some had to do with additional hours of experience, some with an extra year of 4.0, but i think what finally did it was the fact that the pool changed and suddenly i was standing high above people in the shallow end. so apply every year you can- don't hold out. PM if you want to. don't be me!

 

[FriskyPony]

I agree, as long as you have the time and money, apply now!!! Even if you don't get in this year, when you reapply, it will show the schools that you are dedicated!