Should I just give up? what now?

[turtle36]

I just feel absolutely defeated. This is my 4th time applying and I'm just burnt out. After applying to 13 schools, I've had nothing but straight up rejections from every school. Despite taking the advice of previous file reviews verbatim (retaking pre-requisites, getting a whole masters degree, getting more unique experience, and learning a new language), I have not even received an interview. At this point, now that I have a masters in microbiology more career choices have opened up for me which pay rather well, and my current job as a veterinary technician is just not paying the bills. My current living situation is toxic, I graduated undergrad in 2020 and moved home with parents while I applied to veterinary school, here we are 5 years later with no success.

On top of this, I am not delusional and am acutely aware of the direction this field is heading. We may not like to talk about this, but there is still a mass exodus of veterinary support staff permanently abandoning the field. The VPA positions will surely further to complicate matters as well. Many new veterinarians might potentially be forced to perform the tasks needed to see patients as there may not be a technician available to do that work. This is also before we acknowledge the vast amount of changes coming to veterinary academia with these 10 new schools opening in the next few years meaning that class sizes are going to be continuously stretched thin with few instructors to teach them. The costs of attending veterinary school is also outrageously expensive, this is a lot of debt to accrue for a field facing such concerning issues. Many people will point out that I could always apply down the road, but if these are the tough realities we have to face as a field I can't justify being buried in potentially a few hundred thousand dollars in debt

If you all were in my position, what would you do? Being a veterinarian is a dream, I know I would be an incredible vet, but this application process is decimating my mental health and working as a technician is not sustainable financially. I know I am not alone in feeling this way, I've seen similar sentiments on here and facebook. I also work with other people who applied and they feel equally crushed. Any kind words or advice for directions to take from here would be great, because feeling this inadequate and unwanted hurts a lot.

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[EB73674]

Personally, my limit was 3 application cycles - I told myself at the beginning of applying that I had 3 rounds of applications in me. If I didn't get in the first 2 years, I would add island/international/for-profit schools to my list, and if I still didn't get in, I would be done & plan to pursue a VTS in a specialty field, or even leave vet med altogether for another animal-related field. I was lucky that I got into a good school that had a medium price tag on it (everywhere was OOS for me at the time), so I went. But I also knew that I wanted to work with animals in some capacity, ideally in vet med but not completely married to it. If you aren't feeling the industry anymore, then it is ABSOLUTELY not uncommon or dramatic to take time out of the field. I am a total career-changer - I originally wanted to work in politics/international aid work & was 100000% burnt out and disillusioned with it after only 1.5 years. I got out of it (well, was fired out of it) and then tried to make my way back for 4+ years, until I finally realized it both wasn't happening AND (more importantly) I didn't want that career. Just because this HAS been the plan doesn't mean it has to be the plan FOREVER! Go find a job that pays better, treats you better, and that you enjoy!

 

[KK5820]

That’s crazy!! It really is a small world. It’s unfortunate they’re shutting down urgent care but I could see it coming. I’ve been thinking about trying out ER in Loveland, but waiting to see where life takes me with vet school first

Returning here to say that I’m seeing GPs slow down in Fort Collins. Places that used to be booked out for weeks are now struggling to book out tech appointments. Additionally seeing lots of cancellations.

 

[5Hs5Ts]

I just feel absolutely defeated. This is my 4th time applying and I'm just burnt out. After applying to 13 schools, I've had nothing but straight up rejections from every school. Despite taking the advice of previous file reviews verbatim (retaking pre-requisites, getting a whole masters degree, getting more unique experience, and learning a new language), I have not even received an interview. At this point, now that I have a masters in microbiology more career choices have opened up for me which pay rather well, and my current job as a veterinary technician is just not paying the bills. My current living situation is toxic, I graduated undergrad in 2020 and moved home with parents while I applied to veterinary school, here we are 5 years later with no success.

On top of this, I am not delusional and am acutely aware of the direction this field is heading. We may not like to talk about this, but there is still a mass exodus of veterinary support staff permanently abandoning the field. The VPA positions will surely further to complicate matters as well. Many new veterinarians might potentially be forced to perform the tasks needed to see patients as there may not be a technician available to do that work. This is also before we acknowledge the vast amount of changes coming to veterinary academia with these 10 new schools opening in the next few years meaning that class sizes are going to be continuously stretched thin with few instructors to teach them. The costs of attending veterinary school is also outrageously expensive, this is a lot of debt to accrue for a field facing such concerning issues. Many people will point out that I could always apply down the road, but if these are the tough realities we have to face as a field I can't justify being buried in potentially a few hundred thousand dollars in debt

If you all were in my position, what would you do? Being a veterinarian is a dream, I know I would be an incredible vet, but this application process is decimating my mental health and working as a technician is not sustainable financially. I know I am not alone in feeling this way, I've seen similar sentiments on here and facebook. I also work with other people who applied and they feel equally crushed. Any kind words or advice for directions to take from here would be great, because feeling this inadequate and unwanted hurts a lot.

Yeah the application process is a huge dumpsterfire, has very little to do with aptitude and mostly to do with luck and nepotism/social advantage afforded to you by your parents. I thought I was absolutely useless having faced three years of rejection but I was lucky enough to have at least some international options.

I can tell you that your success or lack of success in vet school apps has NO BEARING on how successful you'd be in school. I was a very mid-low tier candidate and have flourished in school. Please don't let these schools get to your self esteem. My recommendation would be to go into human medicine if you can, they appreciate hard work far more.

 

[indysadventures]

Yeah the application process is a huge dumpsterfire, has very little to do with aptitude and mostly to do with luck and nepotism/social advantage afforded to you by your parents. I thought I was absolutely useless having faced three years of rejection but I was lucky enough to have at least some international options.

I can tell you that your success or lack of success in vet school apps has NO BEARING on how successful you'd be in school. I was a very mid-low tier candidate and have flourished in school. Please don't let these schools get to your self esteem. My recommendation would be to go into human medicine if you can, they appreciate hard work far more.

While I agree that neither how long it takes an applicant to get into vet school nor what school they ultimately attend affects how successful they will ultimately be as a veterinarian, please do not insult the many hard-working applicants who achieved admissions faster than others.

We can all acknowledge how hard it is to get into vet school without boiling it down to what is essentially a rigged lottery. It is NOT only luck, it is NOT only connections or nepotism. There is, without doubt, aptitude and hard work involved.

Also, if anything, knowing several medical students, I feel that human medicine is even more cutthroat.

 

[Shelea Caroeaetogae]

With all due respect, I wholeheartedly agree with 5Hs5Ts for the most part. Getting into vet school very much depends on your privilege. I'm not saying that nobody is a hard worker, but realistically, getting in really does depend on how much privilege you have. I am seeing SO MANY people on both the APVMA page and now here that have achieved nearly perfect 4.0 GPAs during their Master's degree program, have retaken classes, and have great experience, as well as LORs and statements, only to be rejected by every single school and then told that the issue is their undergraduate GPA. Guess what? Most of these applicants have experienced extenuating circumstances during their undergraduate years. It's honestly a slap in the face when this happens because this tells me that vet schools prioritize those with privilege, those who are so fortunate to not having to go through these experiences, those who are healthy, those who didn't have to work full-time or had to help support their family, those who have families who supported them and were not abused, and the list goes on and on. This tells me that vet schools only see us all as a number for the most part, and when they see a low GPA number, most of these schools will only see you for that and not for the experiences you had to live through and it just feels like the response is that that's too bad, you should've just sucked it up and been perfect. I also speak from experience as someone with a 3.97 GPA in my Master's program but an overall undergrad GPA that is a 3.05 with A's in all of the classes that I retook later + with over 3000 hours of experience in exotics and small animals with lots of research and volunteering experience BUT who was abused by their parents their entire childhood, finally had the courage to leave their parents, but then had to both study and work full-time while dealing with the consequences of mentioned abuse (mental health issues) which all impacted my grades. This is versus a co-worker who I used to work with whose family is extremely wealthy, only worked when she wanted to (because she didn't need the money) and thus called out so many times our manager considered firing her, and was able to take as much time relaxing to care for herself mentally and studying. A lot of us with extenuating circumstances didn't have that kind of privilege. Yet we are told to pay and retake classes, get more experience, and pay the money to get a Master's to prove that academically, we are capable of succeeding in vet school, only to be told afterwards, that the issue is our undergraduate GPA when we were in our 4-year university. I have seen these posts over and over again and am currently living it.

Yes, I do agree that there are students who do get in based on hard work. There are low-GPA students who definitely do get into vet school, BUT honestly, they make up a minority of acceptances and usually takes multiple cycles. And yes, there are universities who will consider more than your undergrad GPA, but let's be honest, this number is ridiculously small. Most schools now will rank you by GPA first and then make their cutoffs. A majority of applicants are high-GPA students, and there is no doubt that some of these high-GPA students are students who did have to deal with extenuating circumstances while they were in undergrad. I won't deny that. However, I think it's safe to say that a majority of these high-GPA students are students who had the privilege of being healthy, financially stable, supported by their family, etc.

This is a huge problem that is really emphasized in vet med, just because there are far more applicants than seats. While med school can certainly be cutthroat, I remember all of my current med school friends saying that it's essentially guaranteed for most applicants to receive at least 1 acceptance their first cycle. Vet school applications just aren't equitable. There's 0 equity in this, especially when we are ranking applicants by GPA first and refusing to even look at their extenuating circumstances statement (yes, multiple schools do this, I have been informed by multiple advisors from these schools). Realistically, it is also a problem everywhere (which is one of the reasons why DEI was so important for presenting graduating high school seniors with opportunities to go to college but now we'll see what happens with undergraduate admissions even). As a society, we really just need to do better at being more equitable, but the U.S. is just one of the most capitalist societies that it'll be really difficult to change that here. Most international countries are better at this, but of course, moving overseas is hard.

 

[battie]

I remember all of my current med school friends saying that it's essentially guaranteed for most applicants to receive at least 1 acceptance their first cycle.

Not touching on the rest of the discussion because it's subjective discussion. But this is actually quite false. 60% of applicants don't ever receive an acceptance and medical school is far less forgiving for reapplicants. 20% of applicants receive a single acceptance and another 20% get more than 1 acceptance.

Also keep in mind that both the APVMA and SDN pages are a fraction of all the applicants. We see only about 200 applicants between the two pages of 5000-6000 applicants. I'm no longer on Facebook because of the social media effect. I was experiencing strong social media addiction, FOMO, and negative comparison progression to my self-esteem.

I was the bad vet student. I was the mediocre undergrad. I am a damn good doctor. So agree that your undergrad and vet school performance is not 100% correlation to how good of a doctor you'll be. How good of a doctor you'll be comes down how well you learn how to learn, to be honest. However, I do feel that there is a correlation (how strong or lose is up for debate) between your undergrad and vet school performance. And, unfortunately, this is going to start affecting the acceptances we see over the next few years because of the poor NAVLE scores that continue to plague vet schools. But that discussion has been hashed out in general across these and other forums.

 

[KK5820]

With all due respect, I wholeheartedly agree with 5Hs5Ts for the most part. Getting into vet school very much depends on your privilege. I'm not saying that nobody is a hard worker, but realistically, getting in really does depend on how much privilege you have. I am seeing SO MANY people on both the APVMA page and now here that have achieved nearly perfect 4.0 GPAs during their Master's degree program, have retaken classes, and have great experience, as well as LORs and statements, only to be rejected by every single school and then told that the issue is their undergraduate GPA. Guess what? Most of these applicants have experienced extenuating circumstances during their undergraduate years. It's honestly a slap in the face when this happens because this tells me that vet schools prioritize those with privilege, those who are so fortunate to not having to go through these experiences, those who are healthy, those who didn't have to work full-time or had to help support their family, those who have families who supported them and were not abused, and the list goes on and on. This tells me that vet schools only see us all as a number for the most part, and when they see a low GPA number, most of these schools will only see you for that and not for the experiences you had to live through and it just feels like the response is that that's too bad, you should've just sucked it up and been perfect. I also speak from experience as someone with a 3.97 GPA in my Master's program but an overall undergrad GPA that is a 3.05 with A's in all of the classes that I retook later + with over 3000 hours of experience in exotics and small animals with lots of research and volunteering experience BUT who was abused by their parents their entire childhood, finally had the courage to leave their parents, but then had to both study and work full-time while dealing with the consequences of mentioned abuse (mental health issues) which all impacted my grades. This is versus a co-worker who I used to work with whose family is extremely wealthy, only worked when she wanted to (because she didn't need the money) and thus called out so many times our manager considered firing her, and was able to take as much time relaxing to care for herself mentally and studying. A lot of us with extenuating circumstances didn't have that kind of privilege. Yet we are told to pay and retake classes, get more experience, and pay the money to get a Master's to prove that academically, we are capable of succeeding in vet school, only to be told afterwards, that the issue is our undergraduate GPA when we were in our 4-year university. I have seen these posts over and over again and am currently living it.

Yes, I do agree that there are students who do get in based on hard work. There are low-GPA students who definitely do get into vet school, BUT honestly, they make up a minority of acceptances and usually takes multiple cycles. And yes, there are universities who will consider more than your undergrad GPA, but let's be honest, this number is ridiculously small. Most schools now will rank you by GPA first and then make their cutoffs. A majority of applicants are high-GPA students, and there is no doubt that some of these high-GPA students are students who did have to deal with extenuating circumstances while they were in undergrad. I won't deny that. However, I think it's safe to say that a majority of these high-GPA students are students who had the privilege of being healthy, financially stable, supported by their family, etc.

This is a huge problem that is really emphasized in vet med, just because there are far more applicants than seats. While med school can certainly be cutthroat, I remember all of my current med school friends saying that it's essentially guaranteed for most applicants to receive at least 1 acceptance their first cycle. Vet school applications just aren't equitable. There's 0 equity in this, especially when we are ranking applicants by GPA first and refusing to even look at their extenuating circumstances statement (yes, multiple schools do this, I have been informed by multiple advisors from these schools). Realistically, it is also a problem everywhere (which is one of the reasons why DEI was so important for presenting graduating high school seniors with opportunities to go to college but now we'll see what happens with undergraduate admissions even). As a society, we really just need to do better at being more equitable, but the U.S. is just one of the most capitalist societies that it'll be really difficult to change that here. Most international countries are better at this, but of course, moving overseas is hard.

With all due respect, I wholeheartedly agree with 5Hs5Ts for the most part. Getting into vet school very much depends on your privilege. I'm not saying that nobody is a hard worker, but realistically, getting in really does depend on how much privilege you have. I am seeing SO MANY people on both the APVMA page and now here that have achieved nearly perfect 4.0 GPAs during their Master's degree program, have retaken classes, and have great experience, as well as LORs and statements, only to be rejected by every single school and then told that the issue is their undergraduate GPA. Guess what? Most of these applicants have experienced extenuating circumstances during their undergraduate years. It's honestly a slap in the face when this happens because this tells me that vet schools prioritize those with privilege, those who are so fortunate to not having to go through these experiences, those who are healthy, those who didn't have to work full-time or had to help support their family, those who have families who supported them and were not abused, and the list goes on and on. This tells me that vet schools only see us all as a number for the most part, and when they see a low GPA number, most of these schools will only see you for that and not for the experiences you had to live through and it just feels like the response is that that's too bad, you should've just sucked it up and been perfect. I also speak from experience as someone with a 3.97 GPA in my Master's program but an overall undergrad GPA that is a 3.05 with A's in all of the classes that I retook later + with over 3000 hours of experience in exotics and small animals with lots of research and volunteering experience BUT who was abused by their parents their entire childhood, finally had the courage to leave their parents, but then had to both study and work full-time while dealing with the consequences of mentioned abuse (mental health issues) which all impacted my grades. This is versus a co-worker who I used to work with whose family is extremely wealthy, only worked when she wanted to (because she didn't need the money) and thus called out so many times our manager considered firing her, and was able to take as much time relaxing to care for herself mentally and studying. A lot of us with extenuating circumstances didn't have that kind of privilege. Yet we are told to pay and retake classes, get more experience, and pay the money to get a Master's to prove that academically, we are capable of succeeding in vet school, only to be told afterwards, that the issue is our undergraduate GPA when we were in our 4-year university. I have seen these posts over and over again and am currently living it.

Yes, I do agree that there are students who do get in based on hard work. There are low-GPA students who definitely do get into vet school, BUT honestly, they make up a minority of acceptances and usually takes multiple cycles. And yes, there are universities who will consider more than your undergrad GPA, but let's be honest, this number is ridiculously small. Most schools now will rank you by GPA first and then make their cutoffs. A majority of applicants are high-GPA students, and there is no doubt that some of these high-GPA students are students who did have to deal with extenuating circumstances while they were in undergrad. I won't deny that. However, I think it's safe to say that a majority of these high-GPA students are students who had the privilege of being healthy, financially stable, supported by their family, etc.

This is a huge problem that is really emphasized in vet med, just because there are far more applicants than seats. While med school can certainly be cutthroat, I remember all of my current med school friends saying that it's essentially guaranteed for most applicants to receive at least 1 acceptance their first cycle. Vet school applications just aren't equitable. There's 0 equity in this, especially when we are ranking applicants by GPA first and refusing to even look at their extenuating circumstances statement (yes, multiple schools do this, I have been informed by multiple advisors from these schools). Realistically, it is also a problem everywhere (which is one of the reasons why DEI was so important for presenting graduating high school seniors with opportunities to go to college but now we'll see what happens with undergraduate admissions even). As a society, we really just need to do better at being more equitable, but the U.S. is just one of the most capitalist societies that it'll be really difficult to change that here. Most international countries are better at this, but of course, moving overseas is hard.

While I do understand this partially, it still feel like a slap in the face. I grew up low-income. I survived with my mom off of food banks and when it came time to apply to college- I didn’t have a co-signer for my loans. It meant I couldn’t afford school. I was able to enlist in the army to help give me opportunity, however, I know that’s not a privilege that all people get (not an equal employer) nor is it something people want to do (also understandable).

However, my successes should not be discounted to privilege. I supported my mom while I was in college. I became an RA so I could survive living in a college town. I built up my credit so I could afford to get a car and work. I worked upwards of 20 hours a week at times while also balancing a 19 credit course load. I stayed highly involved on campus, balanced being an army reservist, as well as work with the rest of my life. Ultimately, I achieved a 4.0 and was admitted to multiple schools. There’s a reason GPA is so heavily weighted at many schools as it can be a good indicator for success. Not all people with 4.0s will excel in vet school, but it’s hard to deny that demonstration of being able to handle a rigorous undergraduate curriculum can’t function as an indicator of veterinary school success. I’m sure that’s why the SATs and ACT is being brought back on the undergraduate front. These schools need some sort of assurance.

Like battie said, the population you see on SDN is not necessarily representative of the entire applicant population. Yes, privilege plays a part, I’ve seen it myself within the pre-vet circles on campus. However, thats not always the full story for many applicants.

 

[5Hs5Ts]

While I agree that neither how long it takes an applicant to get into vet school nor what school they ultimately attend affects how successful they will ultimately be as a veterinarian, please do not insult the many hard-working applicants who achieved admissions faster than others.

We can all acknowledge how hard it is to get into vet school without boiling it down to what is essentially a rigged lottery. It is NOT only luck, it is NOT only connections or nepotism. There is, without doubt, aptitude and hard work involved.

Also, if anything, knowing several medical students, I feel that human medicine is even more cutthroat.

While I do understand this partially, it still feel like a slap in the face. I grew up low-income. I survived with my mom off of food banks and when it came time to apply to college- I didn’t have a co-signer for my loans. It meant I couldn’t afford school. I was able to enlist in the army to help give me opportunity, however, I know that’s not a privilege that all people get (not an equal employer) nor is it something people want to do (also understandable).

However, my successes should not be discounted to privilege. I supported my mom while I was in college. I became an RA so I could survive living in a college town. I built up my credit so I could afford to get a car and work. I worked upwards of 20 hours a week at times while also balancing a 19 credit course load. I stayed highly involved on campus, balanced being an army reservist, as well as work with the rest of my life. Ultimately, I achieved a 4.0 and was admitted to multiple schools. There’s a reason GPA is so heavily weighted at many schools as it can be a good indicator for success. Not all people with 4.0s will excel in vet school, but it’s hard to deny that demonstration of being able to handle a rigorous undergraduate curriculum can’t function as an indicator of veterinary school success. I’m sure that’s why the SATs and ACT is being brought back on the undergraduate front. These schools need some sort of assurance.

Like battie said, the population you see on SDN is not necessarily representative of the entire applicant population. Yes, privilege plays a part, I’ve seen it myself within the pre-vet circles on campus. However, thats not always the full story for many applicants.

I don't mean to suggest that privilege is the only factor at play but it's evidently a very large one. Even privileged students have to work hard to get into vet school, because it is very competitive. My point is that hard work goes further for a privileged student than it does for a disadvantaged student. It's the difference between a 4.0 with hundreds and hundreds of hours of extracurricular/volunteer experience that is engaging to talk about in interviews, and a 3.85 with a side of full-time work throughout undergrad and no time for extracurriculars or money to go on cool, noteworthy experiences. Disadvantaged students do get into vet school but disproportionately so, in my experience.

 

[Shelea Caroeaetogae]

I don't mean to suggest that privilege is the only factor at play but it's evidently a very large one. Even privileged students have to work hard to get into vet school, because it is very competitive. My point is that hard work goes further for a privileged student than it does for a disadvantaged student. It's the difference between a 4.0 with hundreds and hundreds of hours of extracurricular/volunteer experience that is engaging to talk about in interviews, and a 3.85 with a side of full-time work throughout undergrad and no time for extracurriculars or money to go on cool, noteworthy experiences. Disadvantaged students do get into vet school but disproportionately so, in my experience.

^^^This, we are not saying that everyone who gets in is someone with privilege. As my post acknowledged, yes, there are students who have gone through extenuating circumstances who have gotten in. There are students who low GPAs who have gotten in. There are schools who will look beyond GPA. And as I have stated, I am not saying that nobody is a hard worker in these school. But the proportion of disadvantaged students who get into vet school vs advantaged one is disproportional, and this is evident in, not only in vet schools, but all aspects of life. However, it is up to the vet field to change this in vet schools. With all due respect, I don't believe that this is a subjective experience when we see this in all aspects of life. I have so many experiences where this is true, not only in the vet field. As disappointing as it is, because someone really does need to get in there and initiate this change, I think we can all just agree to disagree and leave it at this. This kind of conversation can quickly get very heated and we should leave SDN as a safe space for all.

 

[indysadventures]

With all due respect, I wholeheartedly agree with 5Hs5Ts for the most part. Getting into vet school very much depends on your privilege. I'm not saying that nobody is a hard worker, but realistically, getting in really does depend on how much privilege you have. I am seeing SO MANY people on both the APVMA page and now here that have achieved nearly perfect 4.0 GPAs during their Master's degree program, have retaken classes, and have great experience, as well as LORs and statements, only to be rejected by every single school and then told that the issue is their undergraduate GPA. Guess what? Most of these applicants have experienced extenuating circumstances during their undergraduate years. It's honestly a slap in the face when this happens because this tells me that vet schools prioritize those with privilege, those who are so fortunate to not having to go through these experiences, those who are healthy, those who didn't have to work full-time or had to help support their family, those who have families who supported them and were not abused, and the list goes on and on. This tells me that vet schools only see us all as a number for the most part, and when they see a low GPA number, most of these schools will only see you for that and not for the experiences you had to live through and it just feels like the response is that that's too bad, you should've just sucked it up and been perfect. I also speak from experience as someone with a 3.97 GPA in my Master's program but an overall undergrad GPA that is a 3.05 with A's in all of the classes that I retook later + with over 3000 hours of experience in exotics and small animals with lots of research and volunteering experience BUT who was abused by their parents their entire childhood, finally had the courage to leave their parents, but then had to both study and work full-time while dealing with the consequences of mentioned abuse (mental health issues) which all impacted my grades. This is versus a co-worker who I used to work with whose family is extremely wealthy, only worked when she wanted to (because she didn't need the money) and thus called out so many times our manager considered firing her, and was able to take as much time relaxing to care for herself mentally and studying. A lot of us with extenuating circumstances didn't have that kind of privilege. Yet we are told to pay and retake classes, get more experience, and pay the money to get a Master's to prove that academically, we are capable of succeeding in vet school, only to be told afterwards, that the issue is our undergraduate GPA when we were in our 4-year university. I have seen these posts over and over again and am currently living it.

Yes, I do agree that there are students who do get in based on hard work. There are low-GPA students who definitely do get into vet school, BUT honestly, they make up a minority of acceptances and usually takes multiple cycles. And yes, there are universities who will consider more than your undergrad GPA, but let's be honest, this number is ridiculously small. Most schools now will rank you by GPA first and then make their cutoffs. A majority of applicants are high-GPA students, and there is no doubt that some of these high-GPA students are students who did have to deal with extenuating circumstances while they were in undergrad. I won't deny that. However, I think it's safe to say that a majority of these high-GPA students are students who had the privilege of being healthy, financially stable, supported by their family, etc.

This is a huge problem that is really emphasized in vet med, just because there are far more applicants than seats. While med school can certainly be cutthroat, I remember all of my current med school friends saying that it's essentially guaranteed for most applicants to receive at least 1 acceptance their first cycle. Vet school applications just aren't equitable. There's 0 equity in this, especially when we are ranking applicants by GPA first and refusing to even look at their extenuating circumstances statement (yes, multiple schools do this, I have been informed by multiple advisors from these schools). Realistically, it is also a problem everywhere (which is one of the reasons why DEI was so important for presenting graduating high school seniors with opportunities to go to college but now we'll see what happens with undergraduate admissions even). As a society, we really just need to do better at being more equitable, but the U.S. is just one of the most capitalist societies that it'll be really difficult to change that here. Most international countries are better at this, but of course, moving overseas is hard.

I certainly agree with you that the United States itself is an oligarchy parading around in the mask of a meritocracy. The rest of your opinions are valid as they’re built from your lived experiences, and it’s okay to feel frustrated. But some of your information about admissions, including med school, is anecdotal and short-sighted.

You talk a lot of privilege, and we definitely have a privilege problem within the US. I wish it weren’t so, and I hope we can turn the tide. There’s privilege in getting great grades in undergrad, but I also think that there is privilege in being able to acquire a master’s degree to try to raise your GPA, or to be able to afford to go back to school at all to prep for another career (I fall into this category). I think vet schools resist weighing master’s degrees too heavily because they don’t want to suddenly make that a requirement, or to give students who can afford an additional degree an advantage over those who cannot. Thus, focusing on undergraduate GPA keeps the playing field as equitable as possible.

As you move forward and become a doctor, just keep in mind that we cannot know what another person faces just on the surface. I’m not disagreeing with you - the world sucks. It’s cruel and unfair and mercurial. But, one time a mentor told me that all we see of another is their “front door” - we don’t see their home. We don’t see what they hide. Not all disabilities are visible. Not all trauma is apparent. Not all those who have high GPAs had enough money to just sit back and do nothing but study. Some did - but not all.

I was fortunate enough to be accepted this cycle, and I am a high GPA applicant. But I’m also older. I am disabled. I come from a family plagued with anger and addiction. I worked 20-30 hour weeks at 2+ jobs in undergrad and 30-40 hour weeks while going back to school to get my prerequisites.

I’m lucky to be generally healthy, my disabilities aside. And I could not have achieved what I have without accommodations, though I did not receive those until long after undergrad. And I am certainly immensely fortunate to have a supportive partner who has helped me rebuild my life from rock bottom.

I recognize that my high GPA got me in the door. But, as a disabled, queer, non-traditional applicant, I do feel that schools valued my viewpoints and interacted with my stories during interviews. I do feel like they cared about me and my experiences.

Admissions teams have to make really hard decisions, and GPA is one of those metrics that they need to utilize to make reasonable cuts to applicant pools. It’s not ideal, it’s imperfect, but I do think at the end of the day admissions teams are not elitists reveling in exclusion. I do truly feel like they’re trying to make the most equitable decisions possible with the finite resources they have.

They recognize, as do all of us here I’d argue, that diversity is necessary in vet med. @KK5820 makes excellent points as well - it is okay to be frustrated - it is not okay to imply that admissions has little to do with aptitude and negate the accomplishments of many here. It can be multiple things at once.

 

[megadorkie]

the issue is their undergraduate GPA. Guess what? Most of these applicants have experienced extenuating circumstances during their undergraduate years. It's honestly a slap in the face when this happens because this tells me that vet schools prioritize those with privilege, those who are so fortunate to not having to go through these experiences, those who are healthy, those who didn't have to work full-time or had to help support their family, those who have families who supported them and were not abused, and the list goes on and on.

This is a very detailed argument, which I appreciate. I don't know that I can completely agree with your post, but I can 10000% understand where you are coming from. However, my viewpoint has shifted from what yours currently is to what mine is now, and I'll explain why in a second.

Long story short, I feel I grew up disadvantaged as well for reasons I'll leave up to everyone's imagination, but one of those reasons is money. Single mom, and short on income. Not a lot of resources available to me, but I still managed to do pretty well throughout high school, landing at the top of my classes. The middle of high school is when I first noticed the disparity in privilege between my friends and I. For my friends to have a welcoming, warm home and family, food on the table, and support to not need to work a job, it made a difference in our mental health and stress levels. Granted, I had the best friends in the world, because they would always invite me in to share in their wealths, but the difference was still there.

I think these differences became much more prevalent in college, as it was a larger class size of many diverse individuals. But I saw college as more of a sink or swim situation, and I did have a few friends drop out since it was too much for them. I was able to persevere in my first semester and endure the lack of sleep/stress/low $, but I grew incredibly bitter for those that had the privilege, like you said. Very incredibly bitter. Mom at this point became very successful and wealthy, but there was no way she was funding my college. It was mutually understood between her and I that if I was going to put myself through college, I was going to pay for it. Definitely added to my bitterness levels, especially since I couldn't get funding through FAFSA because of her high income level. My head was a very negative place to be at this time.

Decided to put myself out of my comfort zone and joined the military after my first semester in college, and in good time too since while I was in DEP, I had started my 2nd semester of college and I was failing my exams for all of my classes. That semester tanked my GPA pretty well. The bitterness took over my mind, and I lost motivation to study for my classes, especially after working my full time job and coming home late at night. I knew I couldn't keep persisting down that route, since it wasn't working. Took 2 years off of college to go through bootcamp and deploy, saved up money, plus my unit has a benefit of covering my tuition for in-state colleges. Learned so much about life, and also about general stress management and the importance of keeping my ambition. Came back rejuvenated, and rocked all my classes with my extra $. So now, I guess you could consider me the privileged one, but if I hadn't 1. persevered and 2. found a solution that helped me achieve my goals, I definitely would have dropped out by now and been working some unfulfilling job, so I would argue those factors are paramount to success.

However, the big point I want to make here is that, I am a prospective vet student that found a way to make it work, though all of my stresses (both from my perceived disadvantages AND from joining the military) to where I excelled in my undergraduate studies, in spite of everything. I let go of my bitterness about the income disparity and privilege that my friends had [because I now truly believe learning to overcome adversary builds better people, too]. Along with that, I continued to add more to my plate later in college, and actually did better, even with a job. And that, is what I personally think the veterinary school admissions committees are looking at. Because vet school, as commonly understood, is incredibly difficult, and less forgiving than undergraduate. And life is life, it will still happen. Unfortunately, we don't get a break while in vet school, stressors will still pop up. No one really knows how vet school will go, and bad situations can arise or extreme life events, that can wreck our plans and create significant financial stress. If one's application presents themselves as someone whose grades suffer in situations of extreme stress/adversity, they can fall behind FAST in vet school. I think the last thing that anyone wants is someone to fail out of vet school, because not only is that bad for the school, but that is a HUGE financial debt for an individual to carry, especially one who likely doesn't have an easy way to pay it off.

All of this to say that I completely understand where you are coming from, and I have been there. But being on the other side of it now, it makes sense to me why it is the way it is. If I hadn't took the time away from school to grow and pursue other things to set myself up for success while in my undergraduate studies, I don't think I would have even finished my degree.

Definitely saying all this for the discussion aspect, no negative feelings at all and I love me a good debate as long as it's civil and as long as we can avoid hurting anyone's feelings. If anything that I said comes across hurtful or otherwise tone-deaf, please let me know. I absolutely don't mean to disrespect anyone with my perspective.

 

[indysadventures]

This is a very detailed argument, which I appreciate. I don't know that I can completely agree with your post, but I can 10000% understand where you are coming from. However, my viewpoint has shifted from what yours currently is to what mine is now, and I'll explain why in a second.

Long story short, I feel I grew up disadvantaged as well for reasons I'll leave up to everyone's imagination, but one of those reasons is money. Single mom, and short on income. Not a lot of resources available to me, but I still managed to do pretty well throughout high school, landing at the top of my classes. The middle of high school is when I first noticed the disparity in privilege between my friends and I. For my friends to have a welcoming, warm home and family, food on the table, and support to not need to work a job, it made a difference in our mental health and stress levels. Granted, I had the best friends in the world, because they would always invite me in to share in their wealths, but the difference was still there.

I think these differences became much more prevalent in college, as it was a larger class size of many diverse individuals. But I saw college as more of a sink or swim situation, and I did have a few friends drop out since it was too much for them. I was able to persevere in my first semester and endure the lack of sleep/stress/low $, but I grew incredibly bitter for those that had the privilege, like you said. Very incredibly bitter. Mom at this point became very successful and wealthy, but there was no way she was funding my college. It was mutually understood between her and I that if I was going to put myself through college, I was going to pay for it. Definitely added to my bitterness levels, especially since I couldn't get funding through FAFSA because of her high income level. My head was a very negative place to be at this time.

Decided to put myself out of my comfort zone and joined the military after my first semester in college, and in good time too since while I was in DEP, I had started my 2nd semester of college and I was failing my exams for all of my classes. That semester tanked my GPA pretty well. The bitterness took over my mind, and I lost motivation to study for my classes, especially after working my full time job and coming home late at night. I knew I couldn't keep persisting down that route, since it wasn't working. Took 2 years off of college to go through bootcamp and deploy, saved up money, plus my unit has a benefit of covering my tuition for in-state colleges. Learned so much about life, and also about general stress management and the importance of keeping my ambition. Came back rejuvenated, and rocked all my classes with my extra $. So now, I guess you could consider me the privileged one, but if I hadn't 1. persevered and 2. found a solution that helped me achieve my goals, I definitely would have dropped out by now and been working some unfulfilling job, so I would argue those factors are paramount to success.

However, the big point I want to make here is that, I am a prospective vet student that found a way to make it work, though all of my stresses (both from my perceived disadvantages AND from joining the military) to where I excelled in my undergraduate studies, in spite of everything. I let go of my bitterness about the income disparity and privilege that my friends had [because I now truly believe learning to overcome adversary builds better people, too]. Along with that, I continued to add more to my plate later in college, and actually did better, even with a job. And that, is what I personally think the veterinary school admissions committees are looking at. Because vet school, as commonly understood, is incredibly difficult, and less forgiving than undergraduate. And life is life, it will still happen. Unfortunately, we don't get a break while in vet school, stressors will still pop up. No one really knows how vet school will go, and bad situations can arise or extreme life events, that can wreck our plans and create significant financial stress. If one's application presents themselves as someone whose grades suffer in situations of extreme stress/adversity, they can fall behind FAST in vet school. I think the last thing that anyone wants is someone to fail out of vet school, because not only is that bad for the school, but that is a HUGE financial debt for an individual to carry, especially one who likely doesn't have an easy way to pay it off.

All of this to say that I completely understand where you are coming from, and I have been there. But being on the other side of it now, it makes sense to me why it is the way it is. If I hadn't took the time away from school to grow and pursue other things to set myself up for success while in my undergraduate studies, I don't think I would have even finished my degree.

Definitely saying all this for the discussion aspect, no negative feelings at all and I love me a good debate as long as it's civil and as long as we can avoid hurting anyone's feelings. If anything that I said comes across hurtful or otherwise tone-deaf, please let me know. I absolutely don't mean to disrespect anyone with my perspective.

From one single parent kid to another, *high five* - it’s tough out there.

 

[megadorkie]

From one single parent kid to another, *high five* - it’s tough out there.

Whooh, yeah. I've recently been learning about the childhood triggers/traumas that stuff like that leaves us to deal with as adults, since it feels like it's all coming to the surface now. Gotta love epigenetics, lol. Hugs to you.

 

[indysadventures]

Whooh, yeah. I've recently been learning about the childhood triggers/traumas that stuff like that leaves us to deal with as adults, since it feels like it's all coming to the surface now. Gotta love epigenetics, lol. Hugs to you.

Our methylation patterns are out to get us.

 

[wayne455338]

^^^This, we are not saying that everyone who gets in is someone with privilege. As my post acknowledged, yes, there are students who have gone through extenuating circumstances who have gotten in. There are students who low GPAs who have gotten in. There are schools who will look beyond GPA. And as I have stated, I am not saying that nobody is a hard worker in these school. But the proportion of disadvantaged students who get into vet school vs advantaged one is disproportional, and this is evident in, not only in vet schools, but all aspects of life. However, it is up to the vet field to change this in vet schools. With all due respect, I don't believe that this is a subjective experience when we see this in all aspects of life. I have so many experiences where this is true, not only in the vet field. As disappointing as it is, because someone really does need to get in there and initiate this change, I think we can all just agree to disagree and leave it at this. This kind of conversation can quickly get very heated and we should leave SDN as a safe space for all.

I think you have a strong prejudice on the high GPA students based on the statement you have above. My understanding from your statement is that you automatically think most of high GPA students have good finance and family supporting them to successfully get into vet school, and they don’t deserve that because you think you work harder than them as you have “exhausted circumstances”. Sorry I get a really negative vibe from you as I am a 4.0 student with my Master degree and I feel really offended because I also work super hard to get into vet school. As you mention and I agree that schools should look applicants not only based on the GPA. However, from the admission standpoint, first of all, they don’t have that much time to look over every single applicant with their unique background. I am not saying they don’t look every single one, but they can not know every applicant well in detail in 20-30mins. Most of the admission team members are professors and clinicians they volunteer to be on the admission team. Second, each school only has about 100-150 seats for each cycle, and now each school has up to 2000 or even more applicants. If you are on the admission team and busy as a doctor or professor, how do you choose your preferred applicants from hundreds of applications in front of you? Third, vet school choose applicants whom they think the most fit to their program and can pass NAVLE. You said people have high Master degree GPA, but do you notice master degree only have up to 9-12 credits per semester? Master degree is build for people who are interested in the research topic and support them for the research, it is not class basis. Therefore, master degree can only show to the admission team that you have ability to do advance research and study, but still can not prove you can handle intense class schedule in vet school. Same concept as taking classes, if an applicant can only take 1 or 2 classes per semester, do you trust this applicant can handle vet school classes? For reference, I have 8 classes this semester with 21 credits. Whatever the reason that the person can only take 1-2 classes in one semester, it will still be concerned on the side of the admission team.
As all the Discussions above, I am not going to repeat the topics that already mentioned. Yes, everyone works so hard to get into vet school, and we all have unique background. I think that people who getting good GPAs is not because of “the privilege”. Even with good grade students, I believe they all have hard times some time in thier lives. They deserve to have that advantage when they apply to any of the professional schools because this is how the admission process works. One question for anyone, with over 2000 applications and you can only accept 150 people, what requirement are you initially using to cut down the numbers? Experiences? Degree level? Or something else? GPA is the only thing that all applicants have and the most fair requirement to everyone. Schools do give chances for people to explain their “special circumstances” and it means they still value low GPA applicants with whatever their working or life experiences. Again, I understand how frustrated the application process is and agree programs should do better job evaluating all the materials that the applicants brings to the table. However, I also think that it is important to know why schools prefer higher GPA over lower GPA, and value grades more than experiences in most of the cases.

 

[KK5820]

I certainly agree with you that the United States itself is an oligarchy parading around in the mask of a meritocracy. The rest of your opinions are valid as they’re built from your lived experiences, and it’s okay to feel frustrated. But some of your information about admissions, including med school, is anecdotal and short-sighted.

You talk a lot of privilege, and we definitely have a privilege problem within the US. I wish it weren’t so, and I hope we can turn the tide. There’s privilege in getting great grades in undergrad, but I also think that there is privilege in being able to acquire a master’s degree to try to raise your GPA, or to be able to afford to go back to school at all to prep for another career (I fall into this category). I think vet schools resist weighing master’s degrees too heavily because they don’t want to suddenly make that a requirement, or to give students who can afford an additional degree an advantage over those who cannot. Thus, focusing on undergraduate GPA keeps the playing field as equitable as possible.

As you move forward and become a doctor, just keep in mind that we cannot know what another person faces just on the surface. I’m not disagreeing with you - the world sucks. It’s cruel and unfair and mercurial. But, one time a mentor told me that all we see of another is their “front door” - we don’t see their home. We don’t see what they hide. Not all disabilities are visible. Not all trauma is apparent. Not all those who have high GPAs had enough money to just sit back and do nothing but study. Some did - but not all.

I was fortunate enough to be accepted this cycle, and I am a high GPA applicant. But I’m also older. I am disabled. I come from a family plagued with anger and addiction. I worked 20-30 hour weeks at 2+ jobs in undergrad and 30-40 hour weeks while going back to school to get my prerequisites.

I’m lucky to be generally healthy, my disabilities aside. And I could not have achieved what I have without accommodations, though I did not receive those until long after undergrad. And I am certainly immensely fortunate to have a supportive partner who has helped me rebuild my life from rock bottom.

I recognize that my high GPA got me in the door. But, as a disabled, queer, non-traditional applicant, I do feel that schools valued my viewpoints and interacted with my stories during interviews. I do feel like they cared about me and my experiences.

Admissions teams have to make really hard decisions, and GPA is one of those metrics that they need to utilize to make reasonable cuts to applicant pools. It’s not ideal, it’s imperfect, but I do think at the end of the day admissions teams are not elitists reveling in exclusion. I do truly feel like they’re trying to make the most equitable decisions possible with the finite resources they have.

They recognize, as do all of us here I’d argue, that diversity is necessary in vet med. @KK5820 makes excellent points as well - it is okay to be frustrated - it is not okay to imply that admissions has little to do with aptitude and negate the accomplishments of many here. It can be multiple things at once.

You’re always able to verbalize what I can’t, lol! My thoughts exactly, you never know what’s happening behind closed doors. Even those who appear privileged can have extenuating circumstances that you would never know of.

 

[battie]

This also doesn't touch on the self selective process of getting into advanced skills degree programs and skills. Vet med is somewhat unique in that the majority of students are middle to upper middle class. There's self exclusions on both the upper class and lower economic classes as vet school is difficult to obtain while also not prestigious enough for a lot of upper class parents.

Self exclusions starts as early as high school where students are told they aren't good enough to college or other unhelpful mindsets and it eventually becomes a mantra. You can't go to vet school if you don't go to college in the first place. Likewise, becoming a vet isn't good enough for a lot of people's parents. Can't go to vet school if your parents push you to law, tech, or human med.

 

[JaynaAli]

I’m not on a vet school admissions committee, but I have to say, as someone who has been hanging around SDN for like 15 years now, the number of explanation and personal statements I have seen/read/heard about that talk about enduring sexual assaults, mental and physical health struggles, and family health struggles is way higher than you’d think (unfortunately). And I’m sure there are others who have gone through those things and not shared that as well. Sure there are people who didn’t have those things to overcome and may have had an easier time, but I think far more people have faced significant adversity than it looks like on the surface. You don’t know what is going on in someone’s life now or in the past.

 

[Cowsrcool]

I’m not on a vet school admissions committee, but I have to say, as someone who has been hanging around SDN for like 15 years now, the number of explanation and personal statements I have seen/read/heard about that talk about enduring sexual assaults, mental and physical health struggles, and family health struggles is way higher than you’d think (unfortunately). And I’m sure there are others who have gone through those things and not shared that as well. Sure there are people who didn’t have those things to overcome and may have had an easier time, but I think far more people have faced significant adversity than it looks like on the surface. You don’t know what is going on in someone’s life now or in the past.

I appreciate everyone’s input so far and honestly don’t have anything to add except to echo this sentiment- the past few cycles I have applied with other peers and university colleagues. Every single one had an explanation statement written for their application. I think more people than not use this explanation statement - whether they know their explanation is serious or not. Most talked about Covid/mental health and whatnot. I think the use of the explanation statement has gotten overused (or just increasingly used- I cannot speak to overuse as I don’t know peoples individual details) in the past few years because of Covid and everything else happening in the world that it kind of muddies the narrative and almost everyone has something bad happening/previously happened to talk about. Therefore, making it EVEN harder for admissions committees to weed through these.

 

[katiemcat]

Just adding to the convo: implying that most people that have been accepted got to where they are via privilege and nepotism is lowkey insane. I would even go as far to say this is extremely uncommon. My classmates have been through some **** (cancer, war, discrimination, you name it.) Not trying to dox my self but I grew up in a very unstable household with an addict parent, where I lived in poverty and faced abuse. I worked my ass off to get a full ride to undergrad. I worked full time during undergrad to pay my bills and stayed up late studying to get decent grades. No one helped me get where I am except myself. To try and take the accomplishment of getting into vet school from others is disrespectful. In this field we get enough **** from clients, we don’t need our peers tearing us down as well. Applications and rejections are frustrating, gut wrenching even, I truly get it. But you’re taking your feelings out in an unhealthy manner.

 

[pp9]

I’m not on a vet school admissions committee, but I have to say, as someone who has been hanging around SDN for like 15 years now, the number of explanation and personal statements I have seen/read/heard about that talk about enduring sexual assaults, mental and physical health struggles, and family health struggles is way higher than you’d think (unfortunately). And I’m sure there are others who have gone through those things and not shared that as well. Sure there are people who didn’t have those things to overcome and may have had an easier time, but I think far more people have faced significant adversity than it looks like on the surface. You don’t know what is going on in someone’s life now or in the past.

I wanted to say this too.

I want to echo the point above that a master’s degree is a privilege that you may not realize. I certainly wouldn’t have been able to pursue a master’s as a prevet. Sometimes we all need a dose of perspective.

This is a classic ‘they only got in because of ____’ post. At least one comes up every single year. You have NO idea what a person’s application was like beyond what they choose to share online. People usually only share a handful of numbers and sometimes share 1-2 sentences on a challenge that made things harder for them. To make such a massive generalization that privilege is the key to acceptance based off of a minuscule amount of anecdotal data is wild.

Also, I noticed you’re really new to SDN both literally (@Shelea Caroeaetogae) and not quite new but not very active (@5Hs5Ts.) a handful of us are going on 10+ years. We’ve had people in wheelchairs, someone who experienced homelessness, second/third career applicants, people from unstable homes, people with chronic illness or other disabilities, first generation college students, people who have worked to support their families while going to school, etc. and that’s just on SDN, which gets a relatively small % of users every year, even fewer who stick around and tell us their stories.

it’s easy to be bitter when you don’t get in. Very easy. Everyone wants to point the finger at something they can’t control (background, race, gender, etc) because it feels better than realizing your app/grades/hours/etc could have been better, or that fate just wasn’t in your side this cycle. We’ve had both sides of this particular discussion - ‘I’m not from a disadvantaged background, people who are get in easier than I will (usually paired with a complaint about their supposed lower stats)’ and ‘I’m from a disadvantaged background, people with privilege get in easier than I will.’ Both and neither are true at the same time.

And just a more personal note since this thread was resurrected for no apparent reason, but I know turtle personally and also read their app/essays/etc. It wasn’t lack of ‘privilege’ that was the issue, it was questionable academic stats paired with an entirely unconvincing personal statement.

Also wanted to echo this as someone who was the recipient of many 'How did you get in and I didn't?!' comments (for vet school, a certain ultra-competitive internship I got as a pre-vet, and ultimately my breaking into zoo med). Maybe I am reading some of these comments (from multiple posters) and taking it a bit personally as a result, but entitlement and jealousy don't look cute on anyone.

Anyone harboring these sentiments should take a step back and realize that once you get an acceptance, someone is going to say the exact same things about you and diminish your years of hard work, tears, and countless hours of your life to luck, random chance, 'Well I must have slipped through the cracks and you didn't,' 'you must know someone on the committee,' etc. Just don't go there, don't fall into that trap. It is tempting to temporarily soothe yourself by blaming something 'out of your control' when it comes to situations like these, but it won't fix anything for you and will push you away from striving to improve yourself/your application every year.

Quoting myself here for obvious reasons

 

[DVM882029]

However, the big point I want to make here is that, I am a prospective vet student that found a way to make it work, though all of my stresses (both from my perceived disadvantages AND from joining the military) to where I excelled in my undergraduate studies, in spite of everything. I let go of my bitterness about the income disparity and privilege that my friends had [because I now truly believe learning to overcome adversary builds better people, too]. Along with that, I continued to add more to my plate later in college, and actually did better, even with a job. And that, is what I personally think the veterinary school admissions committees are looking at. Because vet school, as commonly understood, is incredibly difficult, and less forgiving than undergraduate. And life is life, it will still happen. Unfortunately, we don't get a break while in vet school, stressors will still pop up. No one really knows how vet school will go, and bad situations can arise or extreme life events, that can wreck our plans and create significant financial stress. If one's application presents themselves as someone whose grades suffer in situations of extreme stress/adversity, they can fall behind FAST in vet school. I think the last thing that anyone wants is someone to fail out of vet school, because not only is that bad for the school, but that is a HUGE financial debt for an individual to carry, especially one who likely doesn't have an easy way to pay it off.

I think the difference in applicants comes from this perspective. You let go of the bitterness, you embraced your journey, and you didn't make it into a list of excuses and "woe is me" stories. This is how lower GPA/lower hours/non-trads/etc get in: By embracing and accepting their own story and turning it into a massive strength.

Just adding to the convo: implying that most people that have been accepted got to where they are via privilege and nepotism is lowkey insane. I would even go as far to say this is extremely uncommon. My classmates have been through some **** (cancer, war, discrimination, you name it.) Not trying to dox my self but I grew up in a very unstable household with an addict parent, where I lived in poverty and faced abuse. I worked my ass off to get a full ride to undergrad. I worked full time during undergrad to pay my bills and stayed up late studying to get decent grades. No one helped me get where I am except myself. To try and take the accomplishment of getting into vet school from others is disrespectful. In this field we get enough **** from clients, we don’t need our peers tearing us down as well. Applications and rejections are frustrating, gut wrenching even, I truly get it. But you’re taking your feelings out in an unhealthy manner.

I'm with you. Single mom with severe, severeeeeee mental illness, a stint in the foster care system because of said mother, dropped out of high school and got my GED to work as a teenager because otherwise we had nothing. My 20s were a mess of being poor and alone while trying to learn how to adult with zero support from a parental figure. Hence, vet school in my 30s coming off a 4.0 fall semester of 7 classes. Lemme tell you what it took to get here: EVERYTHING and more, with the help of the village I cultivated in my adult years of amazing friends who have become my family and, first and foremost, my husband (whom I met at 30 years of age).

 

[Cowsrcool]

I think the difference in applicants comes from this perspective. You let go of the bitterness, you embraced your journey, and you didn't make it into a list of excuses and "woe is me" stories. This is how lower GPA/lower hours/non-trads/etc get in: By embracing and accepting their own story and turning it into a massive strength.

THIS!! Is huge in admissions. I spoke with various vets when applying about personal statements and extenuating statements and they often say the mistake people make is stating all the problems they went through but NOT connecting it back to HOW they worked through it and HOW it has contributed to their further success and goals. They want to see how you worked through what happened to you and how you came out on the other side of it. You made a really great point here! Congratulations on your successes 💘

 

[pp9]

I think the difference in applicants comes from this perspective. You let go of the bitterness, you embraced your journey, and you didn't make it into a list of excuses and "woe is me" stories. This is how lower GPA/lower hours/non-trads/etc get in: By embracing and accepting their own story and turning it into a massive strength.

THIS!! Is huge in admissions. I spoke with various vets when applying about personal statements and extenuating statements and they often say the mistake people make is stating all the problems they went through but NOT connecting it back to HOW they worked through it and HOW it has contributed to their further success and goals. They want to see how you worked through what happened to you and how you came out on the other side of it. You made a really great point here! Congratulations on your successes 💘

Or sometimes, honestly, a big thing that comes with maturity is recognizing that maybe your struggle isn't exactly going to compel anyone. This is hard to word in a PC way, but not everything warrants an explanation statement. Applicants need to use their best judgement (if applicable...) and not try to grasp for straws to explain things that either don't need explaining, or straight up try to use an explanation that won't do you any favors. If you are trying to use the explanation statement, it needs to be aggressively proofread and one needs to seek honest, frank feedback. There is a reasonable risk that the explanation statement might unintentionally give off the impression that an applicant is immature, has very little life experience, etc. which are red flags in the veterinary admissions world.

There are a few schools that openly state that they take interest in hearing from those that feel they came from a disadvantageous socioeconomic background (aka consider it during admissions) in some way shape or form. UC Davis comes to mind for the present times. I had my own personal experience with Michigan State, 10+ years ago - they actually granted extra points (they used to operate on a points-based admissions process) to those with a background deemed compelling enough. The hard part is when you have a certain background/life experience, and the school doesn't feel it warrants extra attention in whatever form...aka that's not what they are looking for in order to give out those points. It's a very touchy subject and a lot of people don't like getting honest opinions/feedback in this area. It's also hard to get good advice here because not every school openly considers these factors and the ones that do are not going to provide their criteria for what earns extra consideration.

ETA: Wanted to throw in another suggestion for the general crowd, but getting into a pissing match over who is more disadvantaged/who has it worse is a very dangerous game with no winners.

 

[Cowsrcool]

Or sometimes, honestly, a big thing that comes with maturity is recognizing that maybe your struggle isn't exactly going to compel anyone. This is hard to word in a PC way, but not everything warrants an explanation statement. Applicants need to use their best judgement (if applicable...) and not try to grasp for straws to explain things that either don't need explaining, or straight up try to use an explanation that won't do you any favors. If you are trying to use the explanation statement, it needs to be aggressively proofread and one needs to seek honest, frank feedback. There is a reasonable risk that the explanation statement might unintentionally give off the impression that an applicant is immature, has very little life experience, etc. which are red flags in the veterinary admissions world.

There are a few schools that openly state that they take interest in hearing from those that feel they came from a disadvantageous socioeconomic background (aka consider it during admissions) in some way shape or form. UC Davis comes to mind for the present times. I had my own personal experience with Michigan State, 10+ years ago - they actually granted extra points (they used to operate on a points-based admissions process) to those with a background deemed compelling enough. The hard part is when you have a certain background/life experience, and the school doesn't feel it warrants extra attention in whatever form...aka that's not what they are looking for in order to give out those points. It's a very touchy subject and a lot of people don't like getting honest opinions/feedback in this area. It's also hard to get good advice here because not every school openly considers these factors and the ones that do are not going to provide their criteria for what earns extra consideration.

ETA: Wanted to throw in another suggestion for the general crowd, but getting into a pissing match over who is more disadvantaged/who has it worse is a very dangerous game with no winners.

Huge agree pp! Thank you for this perspective

 

[indysadventures]

ETA: Wanted to throw in another suggestion for the general crowd, but getting into a pissing match over who is more disadvantaged/who has it worse is a very dangerous game with no winners.

It’s like being told you can’t be sad because someone has it worse or you can’t grieve because someone lost someone “more important” than you did. We all suffer, and it’s all relative, and it does no good to rip open wounds to prove ourselves worthy. I think our struggles all make us more alike than different, and when one points to another and decides it’s lesser, nobody wins.

For those applicants reading this: Unpacking privilege right now in the United States is even itself a moot point - unless you’re literally one of the few in power you are more like any other applicant than you are different. Embrace that. Be collaborative.

Everyone has suffered and thus suffering, with great exception, will always be relative. Requirements of living aside (i.e., I’m NOT discussing human rights here, I am fully in support of basic needs as a human right), suffering and hardship don’t entitle you to something - they simply allow you to empathize and connect with others who’ve experienced similar. You don’t get into vet school, med school, etc. because of your trauma, but for who you became despite it.

To be pointlessly cheesy - Don’t rely on what hurt you to set you apart. Rely instead on what healed you.

 

[DVM882029]

Or sometimes, honestly, a big thing that comes with maturity is recognizing that maybe your struggle isn't exactly going to compel anyone. This is hard to word in a PC way, but not everything warrants an explanation statement. Applicants need to use their best judgement (if applicable...) and not try to grasp for straws to explain things that either don't need explaining, or straight up try to use an explanation that won't do you any favors. If you are trying to use the explanation statement, it needs to be aggressively proofread and one needs to seek honest, frank feedback. There is a reasonable risk that the explanation statement might unintentionally give off the impression that an applicant is immature, has very little life experience, etc. which are red flags in the veterinary admissions world.

There are a few schools that openly state that they take interest in hearing from those that feel they came from a disadvantageous socioeconomic background (aka consider it during admissions) in some way shape or form. UC Davis comes to mind for the present times. I had my own personal experience with Michigan State, 10+ years ago - they actually granted extra points (they used to operate on a points-based admissions process) to those with a background deemed compelling enough. The hard part is when you have a certain background/life experience, and the school doesn't feel it warrants extra attention in whatever form...aka that's not what they are looking for in order to give out those points. It's a very touchy subject and a lot of people don't like getting honest opinions/feedback in this area. It's also hard to get good advice here because not every school openly considers these factors and the ones that do are not going to provide their criteria for what earns extra consideration.

ETA: Wanted to throw in another suggestion for the general crowd, but getting into a pissing match over who is more disadvantaged/who has it worse is a very dangerous game with no winners.

I agree with this 100%. To be fair, I had a really difficult childhood and life, really, up until my late 20s, but I also know people who came from a subjectively "perfect" home and family life yet they had a REALLY hard time too. Different challenges look different on the outside, but honestly, unless you're IN it, you don't know - you just don't. Resiliency does not come from coasting, and every person who has gotten into vet school has had to take most of the same courses we have. Just appreciate the diversity of the field and look at what you can learn from each other, that's how we evolve into DVMs.

 

[DVM882029]

THIS!! Is huge in admissions. I spoke with various vets when applying about personal statements and extenuating statements and they often say the mistake people make is stating all the problems they went through but NOT connecting it back to HOW they worked through it and HOW it has contributed to their further success and goals. They want to see how you worked through what happened to you and how you came out on the other side of it. You made a really great point here! Congratulations on your successes 💘

Thank you! I definitely came out a better, stronger, more empathetic person, and I've become someone who would have protected little me when I needed it most. That's as good as it can possibly get. I wouldn't trade my journey for anything, because of where I am now and I have so much life ahead of me to appreciate and celebrate. /cheesy.