Should I just give up? what now?

[turtle36]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I just feel absolutely defeated. This is my 4th time applying and I'm just burnt out. After applying to 13 schools, I've had nothing but straight up rejections from every school. Despite taking the advice of previous file reviews verbatim (retaking pre-requisites, getting a whole masters degree, getting more unique experience, and learning a new language), I have not even received an interview. At this point, now that I have a masters in microbiology more career choices have opened up for me which pay rather well, and my current job as a veterinary technician is just not paying the bills. My current living situation is toxic, I graduated undergrad in 2020 and moved home with parents while I applied to veterinary school, here we are 5 years later with no success.

On top of this, I am not delusional and am acutely aware of the direction this field is heading. We may not like to talk about this, but there is still a mass exodus of veterinary support staff permanently abandoning the field. The VPA positions will surely further to complicate matters as well. Many new veterinarians might potentially be forced to perform the tasks needed to see patients as there may not be a technician available to do that work. This is also before we acknowledge the vast amount of changes coming to veterinary academia with these 10 new schools opening in the next few years meaning that class sizes are going to be continuously stretched thin with few instructors to teach them. The costs of attending veterinary school is also outrageously expensive, this is a lot of debt to accrue for a field facing such concerning issues. Many people will point out that I could always apply down the road, but if these are the tough realities we have to face as a field I can't justify being buried in potentially a few hundred thousand dollars in debt

If you all were in my position, what would you do? Being a veterinarian is a dream, I know I would be an incredible vet, but this application process is decimating my mental health and working as a technician is not sustainable financially. I know I am not alone in feeling this way, I've seen similar sentiments on here and facebook. I also work with other people who applied and they feel equally crushed. Any kind words or advice for directions to take from here would be great, because feeling this inadequate and unwanted hurts a lot.

 

[EB73674]

Personally, my limit was 3 application cycles - I told myself at the beginning of applying that I had 3 rounds of applications in me. If I didn't get in the first 2 years, I would add island/international/for-profit schools to my list, and if I still didn't get in, I would be done & plan to pursue a VTS in a specialty field, or even leave vet med altogether for another animal-related field. I was lucky that I got into a good school that had a medium price tag on it (everywhere was OOS for me at the time), so I went. But I also knew that I wanted to work with animals in some capacity, ideally in vet med but not completely married to it. If you aren't feeling the industry anymore, then it is ABSOLUTELY not uncommon or dramatic to take time out of the field. I am a total career-changer - I originally wanted to work in politics/international aid work & was 100000% burnt out and disillusioned with it after only 1.5 years. I got out of it (well, was fired out of it) and then tried to make my way back for 4+ years, until I finally realized it both wasn't happening AND (more importantly) I didn't want that career. Just because this HAS been the plan doesn't mean it has to be the plan FOREVER! Go find a job that pays better, treats you better, and that you enjoy!

 

[KK5820]

That’s crazy!! It really is a small world. It’s unfortunate they’re shutting down urgent care but I could see it coming. I’ve been thinking about trying out ER in Loveland, but waiting to see where life takes me with vet school first

Returning here to say that I’m seeing GPs slow down in Fort Collins. Places that used to be booked out for weeks are now struggling to book out tech appointments. Additionally seeing lots of cancellations.

 

[5Hs5Ts]

I just feel absolutely defeated. This is my 4th time applying and I'm just burnt out. After applying to 13 schools, I've had nothing but straight up rejections from every school. Despite taking the advice of previous file reviews verbatim (retaking pre-requisites, getting a whole masters degree, getting more unique experience, and learning a new language), I have not even received an interview. At this point, now that I have a masters in microbiology more career choices have opened up for me which pay rather well, and my current job as a veterinary technician is just not paying the bills. My current living situation is toxic, I graduated undergrad in 2020 and moved home with parents while I applied to veterinary school, here we are 5 years later with no success.

On top of this, I am not delusional and am acutely aware of the direction this field is heading. We may not like to talk about this, but there is still a mass exodus of veterinary support staff permanently abandoning the field. The VPA positions will surely further to complicate matters as well. Many new veterinarians might potentially be forced to perform the tasks needed to see patients as there may not be a technician available to do that work. This is also before we acknowledge the vast amount of changes coming to veterinary academia with these 10 new schools opening in the next few years meaning that class sizes are going to be continuously stretched thin with few instructors to teach them. The costs of attending veterinary school is also outrageously expensive, this is a lot of debt to accrue for a field facing such concerning issues. Many people will point out that I could always apply down the road, but if these are the tough realities we have to face as a field I can't justify being buried in potentially a few hundred thousand dollars in debt

If you all were in my position, what would you do? Being a veterinarian is a dream, I know I would be an incredible vet, but this application process is decimating my mental health and working as a technician is not sustainable financially. I know I am not alone in feeling this way, I've seen similar sentiments on here and facebook. I also work with other people who applied and they feel equally crushed. Any kind words or advice for directions to take from here would be great, because feeling this inadequate and unwanted hurts a lot.

Yeah the application process is a huge dumpsterfire, has very little to do with aptitude and mostly to do with luck and nepotism/social advantage afforded to you by your parents. I thought I was absolutely useless having faced three years of rejection but I was lucky enough to have at least some international options.

I can tell you that your success or lack of success in vet school apps has NO BEARING on how successful you'd be in school. I was a very mid-low tier candidate and have flourished in school. Please don't let these schools get to your self esteem. My recommendation would be to go into human medicine if you can, they appreciate hard work far more.

 

[indysadventures]

Yeah the application process is a huge dumpsterfire, has very little to do with aptitude and mostly to do with luck and nepotism/social advantage afforded to you by your parents. I thought I was absolutely useless having faced three years of rejection but I was lucky enough to have at least some international options.

I can tell you that your success or lack of success in vet school apps has NO BEARING on how successful you'd be in school. I was a very mid-low tier candidate and have flourished in school. Please don't let these schools get to your self esteem. My recommendation would be to go into human medicine if you can, they appreciate hard work far more.

While I agree that neither how long it takes an applicant to get into vet school nor what school they ultimately attend affects how successful they will ultimately be as a veterinarian, please do not insult the many hard-working applicants who achieved admissions faster than others.

We can all acknowledge how hard it is to get into vet school without boiling it down to what is essentially a rigged lottery. It is NOT only luck, it is NOT only connections or nepotism. There is, without doubt, aptitude and hard work involved.

Also, if anything, knowing several medical students, I feel that human medicine is even more cutthroat.

 

[Shelea Caroeaetogae]

With all due respect, I wholeheartedly agree with 5Hs5Ts for the most part. Getting into vet school very much depends on your privilege. I'm not saying that nobody is a hard worker, but realistically, getting in really does depend on how much privilege you have. I am seeing SO MANY people on both the APVMA page and now here that have achieved nearly perfect 4.0 GPAs during their Master's degree program, have retaken classes, and have great experience, as well as LORs and statements, only to be rejected by every single school and then told that the issue is their undergraduate GPA. Guess what? Most of these applicants have experienced extenuating circumstances during their undergraduate years. It's honestly a slap in the face when this happens because this tells me that vet schools prioritize those with privilege, those who are so fortunate to not having to go through these experiences, those who are healthy, those who didn't have to work full-time or had to help support their family, those who have families who supported them and were not abused, and the list goes on and on. This tells me that vet schools only see us all as a number for the most part, and when they see a low GPA number, most of these schools will only see you for that and not for the experiences you had to live through and it just feels like the response is that that's too bad, you should've just sucked it up and been perfect. I also speak from experience as someone with a 3.97 GPA in my Master's program but an overall undergrad GPA that is a 3.05 with A's in all of the classes that I retook later + with over 3000 hours of experience in exotics and small animals with lots of research and volunteering experience BUT who was abused by their parents their entire childhood, finally had the courage to leave their parents, but then had to both study and work full-time while dealing with the consequences of mentioned abuse (mental health issues) which all impacted my grades. This is versus a co-worker who I used to work with whose family is extremely wealthy, only worked when she wanted to (because she didn't need the money) and thus called out so many times our manager considered firing her, and was able to take as much time relaxing to care for herself mentally and studying. A lot of us with extenuating circumstances didn't have that kind of privilege. Yet we are told to pay and retake classes, get more experience, and pay the money to get a Master's to prove that academically, we are capable of succeeding in vet school, only to be told afterwards, that the issue is our undergraduate GPA when we were in our 4-year university. I have seen these posts over and over again and am currently living it.

Yes, I do agree that there are students who do get in based on hard work. There are low-GPA students who definitely do get into vet school, BUT honestly, they make up a minority of acceptances and usually takes multiple cycles. And yes, there are universities who will consider more than your undergrad GPA, but let's be honest, this number is ridiculously small. Most schools now will rank you by GPA first and then make their cutoffs. A majority of applicants are high-GPA students, and there is no doubt that some of these high-GPA students are students who did have to deal with extenuating circumstances while they were in undergrad. I won't deny that. However, I think it's safe to say that a majority of these high-GPA students are students who had the privilege of being healthy, financially stable, supported by their family, etc.

This is a huge problem that is really emphasized in vet med, just because there are far more applicants than seats. While med school can certainly be cutthroat, I remember all of my current med school friends saying that it's essentially guaranteed for most applicants to receive at least 1 acceptance their first cycle. Vet school applications just aren't equitable. There's 0 equity in this, especially when we are ranking applicants by GPA first and refusing to even look at their extenuating circumstances statement (yes, multiple schools do this, I have been informed by multiple advisors from these schools). Realistically, it is also a problem everywhere (which is one of the reasons why DEI was so important for presenting graduating high school seniors with opportunities to go to college but now we'll see what happens with undergraduate admissions even). As a society, we really just need to do better at being more equitable, but the U.S. is just one of the most capitalist societies that it'll be really difficult to change that here. Most international countries are better at this, but of course, moving overseas is hard.

 

[battie]

I remember all of my current med school friends saying that it's essentially guaranteed for most applicants to receive at least 1 acceptance their first cycle.

Not touching on the rest of the discussion because it's subjective discussion. But this is actually quite false. 60% of applicants don't ever receive an acceptance and medical school is far less forgiving for reapplicants. 20% of applicants receive a single acceptance and another 20% get more than 1 acceptance.

Also keep in mind that both the APVMA and SDN pages are a fraction of all the applicants. We see only about 200 applicants between the two pages of 5000-6000 applicants. I'm no longer on Facebook because of the social media effect. I was experiencing strong social media addiction, FOMO, and negative comparison progression to my self-esteem.

I was the bad vet student. I was the mediocre undergrad. I am a damn good doctor. So agree that your undergrad and vet school performance is not 100% correlation to how good of a doctor you'll be. How good of a doctor you'll be comes down how well you learn how to learn, to be honest. However, I do feel that there is a correlation (how strong or lose is up for debate) between your undergrad and vet school performance. And, unfortunately, this is going to start affecting the acceptances we see over the next few years because of the poor NAVLE scores that continue to plague vet schools. But that discussion has been hashed out in general across these and other forums.

 

[KK5820]

With all due respect, I wholeheartedly agree with 5Hs5Ts for the most part. Getting into vet school very much depends on your privilege. I'm not saying that nobody is a hard worker, but realistically, getting in really does depend on how much privilege you have. I am seeing SO MANY people on both the APVMA page and now here that have achieved nearly perfect 4.0 GPAs during their Master's degree program, have retaken classes, and have great experience, as well as LORs and statements, only to be rejected by every single school and then told that the issue is their undergraduate GPA. Guess what? Most of these applicants have experienced extenuating circumstances during their undergraduate years. It's honestly a slap in the face when this happens because this tells me that vet schools prioritize those with privilege, those who are so fortunate to not having to go through these experiences, those who are healthy, those who didn't have to work full-time or had to help support their family, those who have families who supported them and were not abused, and the list goes on and on. This tells me that vet schools only see us all as a number for the most part, and when they see a low GPA number, most of these schools will only see you for that and not for the experiences you had to live through and it just feels like the response is that that's too bad, you should've just sucked it up and been perfect. I also speak from experience as someone with a 3.97 GPA in my Master's program but an overall undergrad GPA that is a 3.05 with A's in all of the classes that I retook later + with over 3000 hours of experience in exotics and small animals with lots of research and volunteering experience BUT who was abused by their parents their entire childhood, finally had the courage to leave their parents, but then had to both study and work full-time while dealing with the consequences of mentioned abuse (mental health issues) which all impacted my grades. This is versus a co-worker who I used to work with whose family is extremely wealthy, only worked when she wanted to (because she didn't need the money) and thus called out so many times our manager considered firing her, and was able to take as much time relaxing to care for herself mentally and studying. A lot of us with extenuating circumstances didn't have that kind of privilege. Yet we are told to pay and retake classes, get more experience, and pay the money to get a Master's to prove that academically, we are capable of succeeding in vet school, only to be told afterwards, that the issue is our undergraduate GPA when we were in our 4-year university. I have seen these posts over and over again and am currently living it.

Yes, I do agree that there are students who do get in based on hard work. There are low-GPA students who definitely do get into vet school, BUT honestly, they make up a minority of acceptances and usually takes multiple cycles. And yes, there are universities who will consider more than your undergrad GPA, but let's be honest, this number is ridiculously small. Most schools now will rank you by GPA first and then make their cutoffs. A majority of applicants are high-GPA students, and there is no doubt that some of these high-GPA students are students who did have to deal with extenuating circumstances while they were in undergrad. I won't deny that. However, I think it's safe to say that a majority of these high-GPA students are students who had the privilege of being healthy, financially stable, supported by their family, etc.

This is a huge problem that is really emphasized in vet med, just because there are far more applicants than seats. While med school can certainly be cutthroat, I remember all of my current med school friends saying that it's essentially guaranteed for most applicants to receive at least 1 acceptance their first cycle. Vet school applications just aren't equitable. There's 0 equity in this, especially when we are ranking applicants by GPA first and refusing to even look at their extenuating circumstances statement (yes, multiple schools do this, I have been informed by multiple advisors from these schools). Realistically, it is also a problem everywhere (which is one of the reasons why DEI was so important for presenting graduating high school seniors with opportunities to go to college but now we'll see what happens with undergraduate admissions even). As a society, we really just need to do better at being more equitable, but the U.S. is just one of the most capitalist societies that it'll be really difficult to change that here. Most international countries are better at this, but of course, moving overseas is hard.

With all due respect, I wholeheartedly agree with 5Hs5Ts for the most part. Getting into vet school very much depends on your privilege. I'm not saying that nobody is a hard worker, but realistically, getting in really does depend on how much privilege you have. I am seeing SO MANY people on both the APVMA page and now here that have achieved nearly perfect 4.0 GPAs during their Master's degree program, have retaken classes, and have great experience, as well as LORs and statements, only to be rejected by every single school and then told that the issue is their undergraduate GPA. Guess what? Most of these applicants have experienced extenuating circumstances during their undergraduate years. It's honestly a slap in the face when this happens because this tells me that vet schools prioritize those with privilege, those who are so fortunate to not having to go through these experiences, those who are healthy, those who didn't have to work full-time or had to help support their family, those who have families who supported them and were not abused, and the list goes on and on. This tells me that vet schools only see us all as a number for the most part, and when they see a low GPA number, most of these schools will only see you for that and not for the experiences you had to live through and it just feels like the response is that that's too bad, you should've just sucked it up and been perfect. I also speak from experience as someone with a 3.97 GPA in my Master's program but an overall undergrad GPA that is a 3.05 with A's in all of the classes that I retook later + with over 3000 hours of experience in exotics and small animals with lots of research and volunteering experience BUT who was abused by their parents their entire childhood, finally had the courage to leave their parents, but then had to both study and work full-time while dealing with the consequences of mentioned abuse (mental health issues) which all impacted my grades. This is versus a co-worker who I used to work with whose family is extremely wealthy, only worked when she wanted to (because she didn't need the money) and thus called out so many times our manager considered firing her, and was able to take as much time relaxing to care for herself mentally and studying. A lot of us with extenuating circumstances didn't have that kind of privilege. Yet we are told to pay and retake classes, get more experience, and pay the money to get a Master's to prove that academically, we are capable of succeeding in vet school, only to be told afterwards, that the issue is our undergraduate GPA when we were in our 4-year university. I have seen these posts over and over again and am currently living it.

Yes, I do agree that there are students who do get in based on hard work. There are low-GPA students who definitely do get into vet school, BUT honestly, they make up a minority of acceptances and usually takes multiple cycles. And yes, there are universities who will consider more than your undergrad GPA, but let's be honest, this number is ridiculously small. Most schools now will rank you by GPA first and then make their cutoffs. A majority of applicants are high-GPA students, and there is no doubt that some of these high-GPA students are students who did have to deal with extenuating circumstances while they were in undergrad. I won't deny that. However, I think it's safe to say that a majority of these high-GPA students are students who had the privilege of being healthy, financially stable, supported by their family, etc.

This is a huge problem that is really emphasized in vet med, just because there are far more applicants than seats. While med school can certainly be cutthroat, I remember all of my current med school friends saying that it's essentially guaranteed for most applicants to receive at least 1 acceptance their first cycle. Vet school applications just aren't equitable. There's 0 equity in this, especially when we are ranking applicants by GPA first and refusing to even look at their extenuating circumstances statement (yes, multiple schools do this, I have been informed by multiple advisors from these schools). Realistically, it is also a problem everywhere (which is one of the reasons why DEI was so important for presenting graduating high school seniors with opportunities to go to college but now we'll see what happens with undergraduate admissions even). As a society, we really just need to do better at being more equitable, but the U.S. is just one of the most capitalist societies that it'll be really difficult to change that here. Most international countries are better at this, but of course, moving overseas is hard.

While I do understand this partially, it still feel like a slap in the face. I grew up low-income. I survived with my mom off of food banks and when it came time to apply to college- I didn’t have a co-signer for my loans. It meant I couldn’t afford school. I was able to enlist in the army to help give me opportunity, however, I know that’s not a privilege that all people get (not an equal employer) nor is it something people want to do (also understandable).

However, my successes should not be discounted to privilege. I supported my mom while I was in college. I became an RA so I could survive living in a college town. I built up my credit so I could afford to get a car and work. I worked upwards of 20 hours a week at times while also balancing a 19 credit course load. I stayed highly involved on campus, balanced being an army reservist, as well as work with the rest of my life. Ultimately, I achieved a 4.0 and was admitted to multiple schools. There’s a reason GPA is so heavily weighted at many schools as it can be a good indicator for success. Not all people with 4.0s will excel in vet school, but it’s hard to deny that demonstration of being able to handle a rigorous undergraduate curriculum can’t function as an indicator of veterinary school success. I’m sure that’s why the SATs and ACT is being brought back on the undergraduate front. These schools need some sort of assurance.

Like battie said, the population you see on SDN is not necessarily representative of the entire applicant population. Yes, privilege plays a part, I’ve seen it myself within the pre-vet circles on campus. However, thats not always the full story for many applicants.

 

[5Hs5Ts]

While I agree that neither how long it takes an applicant to get into vet school nor what school they ultimately attend affects how successful they will ultimately be as a veterinarian, please do not insult the many hard-working applicants who achieved admissions faster than others.

We can all acknowledge how hard it is to get into vet school without boiling it down to what is essentially a rigged lottery. It is NOT only luck, it is NOT only connections or nepotism. There is, without doubt, aptitude and hard work involved.

Also, if anything, knowing several medical students, I feel that human medicine is even more cutthroat.

While I do understand this partially, it still feel like a slap in the face. I grew up low-income. I survived with my mom off of food banks and when it came time to apply to college- I didn’t have a co-signer for my loans. It meant I couldn’t afford school. I was able to enlist in the army to help give me opportunity, however, I know that’s not a privilege that all people get (not an equal employer) nor is it something people want to do (also understandable).

However, my successes should not be discounted to privilege. I supported my mom while I was in college. I became an RA so I could survive living in a college town. I built up my credit so I could afford to get a car and work. I worked upwards of 20 hours a week at times while also balancing a 19 credit course load. I stayed highly involved on campus, balanced being an army reservist, as well as work with the rest of my life. Ultimately, I achieved a 4.0 and was admitted to multiple schools. There’s a reason GPA is so heavily weighted at many schools as it can be a good indicator for success. Not all people with 4.0s will excel in vet school, but it’s hard to deny that demonstration of being able to handle a rigorous undergraduate curriculum can’t function as an indicator of veterinary school success. I’m sure that’s why the SATs and ACT is being brought back on the undergraduate front. These schools need some sort of assurance.

Like battie said, the population you see on SDN is not necessarily representative of the entire applicant population. Yes, privilege plays a part, I’ve seen it myself within the pre-vet circles on campus. However, thats not always the full story for many applicants.

I don't mean to suggest that privilege is the only factor at play but it's evidently a very large one. Even privileged students have to work hard to get into vet school, because it is very competitive. My point is that hard work goes further for a privileged student than it does for a disadvantaged student. It's the difference between a 4.0 with hundreds and hundreds of hours of extracurricular/volunteer experience that is engaging to talk about in interviews, and a 3.85 with a side of full-time work throughout undergrad and no time for extracurriculars or money to go on cool, noteworthy experiences. Disadvantaged students do get into vet school but disproportionately so, in my experience.

 

[Shelea Caroeaetogae]

I don't mean to suggest that privilege is the only factor at play but it's evidently a very large one. Even privileged students have to work hard to get into vet school, because it is very competitive. My point is that hard work goes further for a privileged student than it does for a disadvantaged student. It's the difference between a 4.0 with hundreds and hundreds of hours of extracurricular/volunteer experience that is engaging to talk about in interviews, and a 3.85 with a side of full-time work throughout undergrad and no time for extracurriculars or money to go on cool, noteworthy experiences. Disadvantaged students do get into vet school but disproportionately so, in my experience.

^^^This, we are not saying that everyone who gets in is someone with privilege. As my post acknowledged, yes, there are students who have gone through extenuating circumstances who have gotten in. There are students who low GPAs who have gotten in. There are schools who will look beyond GPA. And as I have stated, I am not saying that nobody is a hard worker in these school. But the proportion of disadvantaged students who get into vet school vs advantaged one is disproportional, and this is evident in, not only in vet schools, but all aspects of life. However, it is up to the vet field to change this in vet schools. With all due respect, I don't believe that this is a subjective experience when we see this in all aspects of life. I have so many experiences where this is true, not only in the vet field. As disappointing as it is, because someone really does need to get in there and initiate this change, I think we can all just agree to disagree and leave it at this. This kind of conversation can quickly get very heated and we should leave SDN as a safe space for all.

 

[indysadventures]

With all due respect, I wholeheartedly agree with 5Hs5Ts for the most part. Getting into vet school very much depends on your privilege. I'm not saying that nobody is a hard worker, but realistically, getting in really does depend on how much privilege you have. I am seeing SO MANY people on both the APVMA page and now here that have achieved nearly perfect 4.0 GPAs during their Master's degree program, have retaken classes, and have great experience, as well as LORs and statements, only to be rejected by every single school and then told that the issue is their undergraduate GPA. Guess what? Most of these applicants have experienced extenuating circumstances during their undergraduate years. It's honestly a slap in the face when this happens because this tells me that vet schools prioritize those with privilege, those who are so fortunate to not having to go through these experiences, those who are healthy, those who didn't have to work full-time or had to help support their family, those who have families who supported them and were not abused, and the list goes on and on. This tells me that vet schools only see us all as a number for the most part, and when they see a low GPA number, most of these schools will only see you for that and not for the experiences you had to live through and it just feels like the response is that that's too bad, you should've just sucked it up and been perfect. I also speak from experience as someone with a 3.97 GPA in my Master's program but an overall undergrad GPA that is a 3.05 with A's in all of the classes that I retook later + with over 3000 hours of experience in exotics and small animals with lots of research and volunteering experience BUT who was abused by their parents their entire childhood, finally had the courage to leave their parents, but then had to both study and work full-time while dealing with the consequences of mentioned abuse (mental health issues) which all impacted my grades. This is versus a co-worker who I used to work with whose family is extremely wealthy, only worked when she wanted to (because she didn't need the money) and thus called out so many times our manager considered firing her, and was able to take as much time relaxing to care for herself mentally and studying. A lot of us with extenuating circumstances didn't have that kind of privilege. Yet we are told to pay and retake classes, get more experience, and pay the money to get a Master's to prove that academically, we are capable of succeeding in vet school, only to be told afterwards, that the issue is our undergraduate GPA when we were in our 4-year university. I have seen these posts over and over again and am currently living it.

Yes, I do agree that there are students who do get in based on hard work. There are low-GPA students who definitely do get into vet school, BUT honestly, they make up a minority of acceptances and usually takes multiple cycles. And yes, there are universities who will consider more than your undergrad GPA, but let's be honest, this number is ridiculously small. Most schools now will rank you by GPA first and then make their cutoffs. A majority of applicants are high-GPA students, and there is no doubt that some of these high-GPA students are students who did have to deal with extenuating circumstances while they were in undergrad. I won't deny that. However, I think it's safe to say that a majority of these high-GPA students are students who had the privilege of being healthy, financially stable, supported by their family, etc.

This is a huge problem that is really emphasized in vet med, just because there are far more applicants than seats. While med school can certainly be cutthroat, I remember all of my current med school friends saying that it's essentially guaranteed for most applicants to receive at least 1 acceptance their first cycle. Vet school applications just aren't equitable. There's 0 equity in this, especially when we are ranking applicants by GPA first and refusing to even look at their extenuating circumstances statement (yes, multiple schools do this, I have been informed by multiple advisors from these schools). Realistically, it is also a problem everywhere (which is one of the reasons why DEI was so important for presenting graduating high school seniors with opportunities to go to college but now we'll see what happens with undergraduate admissions even). As a society, we really just need to do better at being more equitable, but the U.S. is just one of the most capitalist societies that it'll be really difficult to change that here. Most international countries are better at this, but of course, moving overseas is hard.

I certainly agree with you that the United States itself is an oligarchy parading around in the mask of a meritocracy. The rest of your opinions are valid as they’re built from your lived experiences, and it’s okay to feel frustrated. But some of your information about admissions, including med school, is anecdotal and short-sighted.

You talk a lot of privilege, and we definitely have a privilege problem within the US. I wish it weren’t so, and I hope we can turn the tide. There’s privilege in getting great grades in undergrad, but I also think that there is privilege in being able to acquire a master’s degree to try to raise your GPA, or to be able to afford to go back to school at all to prep for another career (I fall into this category). I think vet schools resist weighing master’s degrees too heavily because they don’t want to suddenly make that a requirement, or to give students who can afford an additional degree an advantage over those who cannot. Thus, focusing on undergraduate GPA keeps the playing field as equitable as possible.

As you move forward and become a doctor, just keep in mind that we cannot know what another person faces just on the surface. I’m not disagreeing with you - the world sucks. It’s cruel and unfair and mercurial. But, one time a mentor told me that all we see of another is their “front door” - we don’t see their home. We don’t see what they hide. Not all disabilities are visible. Not all trauma is apparent. Not all those who have high GPAs had enough money to just sit back and do nothing but study. Some did - but not all.

I was fortunate enough to be accepted this cycle, and I am a high GPA applicant. But I’m also older. I am disabled. I come from a family plagued with anger and addiction. I worked 20-30 hour weeks at 2+ jobs in undergrad and 30-40 hour weeks while going back to school to get my prerequisites.

I’m lucky to be generally healthy, my disabilities aside. And I could not have achieved what I have without accommodations, though I did not receive those until long after undergrad. And I am certainly immensely fortunate to have a supportive partner who has helped me rebuild my life from rock bottom.

I recognize that my high GPA got me in the door. But, as a disabled, queer, non-traditional applicant, I do feel that schools valued my viewpoints and interacted with my stories during interviews. I do feel like they cared about me and my experiences.

Admissions teams have to make really hard decisions, and GPA is one of those metrics that they need to utilize to make reasonable cuts to applicant pools. It’s not ideal, it’s imperfect, but I do think at the end of the day admissions teams are not elitists reveling in exclusion. I do truly feel like they’re trying to make the most equitable decisions possible with the finite resources they have.

They recognize, as do all of us here I’d argue, that diversity is necessary in vet med. @KK5820 makes excellent points as well - it is okay to be frustrated - it is not okay to imply that admissions has little to do with aptitude and negate the accomplishments of many here. It can be multiple things at once.

 

[megadorkie]

the issue is their undergraduate GPA. Guess what? Most of these applicants have experienced extenuating circumstances during their undergraduate years. It's honestly a slap in the face when this happens because this tells me that vet schools prioritize those with privilege, those who are so fortunate to not having to go through these experiences, those who are healthy, those who didn't have to work full-time or had to help support their family, those who have families who supported them and were not abused, and the list goes on and on.

This is a very detailed argument, which I appreciate. I don't know that I can completely agree with your post, but I can 10000% understand where you are coming from. However, my viewpoint has shifted from what yours currently is to what mine is now, and I'll explain why in a second.

Long story short, I feel I grew up disadvantaged as well for reasons I'll leave up to everyone's imagination, but one of those reasons is money. Single mom, and short on income. Not a lot of resources available to me, but I still managed to do pretty well throughout high school, landing at the top of my classes. The middle of high school is when I first noticed the disparity in privilege between my friends and I. For my friends to have a welcoming, warm home and family, food on the table, and support to not need to work a job, it made a difference in our mental health and stress levels. Granted, I had the best friends in the world, because they would always invite me in to share in their wealths, but the difference was still there.

I think these differences became much more prevalent in college, as it was a larger class size of many diverse individuals. But I saw college as more of a sink or swim situation, and I did have a few friends drop out since it was too much for them. I was able to persevere in my first semester and endure the lack of sleep/stress/low $, but I grew incredibly bitter for those that had the privilege, like you said. Very incredibly bitter. Mom at this point became very successful and wealthy, but there was no way she was funding my college. It was mutually understood between her and I that if I was going to put myself through college, I was going to pay for it. Definitely added to my bitterness levels, especially since I couldn't get funding through FAFSA because of her high income level. My head was a very negative place to be at this time.

Decided to put myself out of my comfort zone and joined the military after my first semester in college, and in good time too since while I was in DEP, I had started my 2nd semester of college and I was failing my exams for all of my classes. That semester tanked my GPA pretty well. The bitterness took over my mind, and I lost motivation to study for my classes, especially after working my full time job and coming home late at night. I knew I couldn't keep persisting down that route, since it wasn't working. Took 2 years off of college to go through bootcamp and deploy, saved up money, plus my unit has a benefit of covering my tuition for in-state colleges. Learned so much about life, and also about general stress management and the importance of keeping my ambition. Came back rejuvenated, and rocked all my classes with my extra $. So now, I guess you could consider me the privileged one, but if I hadn't 1. persevered and 2. found a solution that helped me achieve my goals, I definitely would have dropped out by now and been working some unfulfilling job, so I would argue those factors are paramount to success.

However, the big point I want to make here is that, I am a prospective vet student that found a way to make it work, though all of my stresses (both from my perceived disadvantages AND from joining the military) to where I excelled in my undergraduate studies, in spite of everything. I let go of my bitterness about the income disparity and privilege that my friends had [because I now truly believe learning to overcome adversary builds better people, too]. Along with that, I continued to add more to my plate later in college, and actually did better, even with a job. And that, is what I personally think the veterinary school admissions committees are looking at. Because vet school, as commonly understood, is incredibly difficult, and less forgiving than undergraduate. And life is life, it will still happen. Unfortunately, we don't get a break while in vet school, stressors will still pop up. No one really knows how vet school will go, and bad situations can arise or extreme life events, that can wreck our plans and create significant financial stress. If one's application presents themselves as someone whose grades suffer in situations of extreme stress/adversity, they can fall behind FAST in vet school. I think the last thing that anyone wants is someone to fail out of vet school, because not only is that bad for the school, but that is a HUGE financial debt for an individual to carry, especially one who likely doesn't have an easy way to pay it off.

All of this to say that I completely understand where you are coming from, and I have been there. But being on the other side of it now, it makes sense to me why it is the way it is. If I hadn't took the time away from school to grow and pursue other things to set myself up for success while in my undergraduate studies, I don't think I would have even finished my degree.

Definitely saying all this for the discussion aspect, no negative feelings at all and I love me a good debate as long as it's civil and as long as we can avoid hurting anyone's feelings. If anything that I said comes across hurtful or otherwise tone-deaf, please let me know. I absolutely don't mean to disrespect anyone with my perspective.

 

[indysadventures]

This is a very detailed argument, which I appreciate. I don't know that I can completely agree with your post, but I can 10000% understand where you are coming from. However, my viewpoint has shifted from what yours currently is to what mine is now, and I'll explain why in a second.

Long story short, I feel I grew up disadvantaged as well for reasons I'll leave up to everyone's imagination, but one of those reasons is money. Single mom, and short on income. Not a lot of resources available to me, but I still managed to do pretty well throughout high school, landing at the top of my classes. The middle of high school is when I first noticed the disparity in privilege between my friends and I. For my friends to have a welcoming, warm home and family, food on the table, and support to not need to work a job, it made a difference in our mental health and stress levels. Granted, I had the best friends in the world, because they would always invite me in to share in their wealths, but the difference was still there.

I think these differences became much more prevalent in college, as it was a larger class size of many diverse individuals. But I saw college as more of a sink or swim situation, and I did have a few friends drop out since it was too much for them. I was able to persevere in my first semester and endure the lack of sleep/stress/low $, but I grew incredibly bitter for those that had the privilege, like you said. Very incredibly bitter. Mom at this point became very successful and wealthy, but there was no way she was funding my college. It was mutually understood between her and I that if I was going to put myself through college, I was going to pay for it. Definitely added to my bitterness levels, especially since I couldn't get funding through FAFSA because of her high income level. My head was a very negative place to be at this time.

Decided to put myself out of my comfort zone and joined the military after my first semester in college, and in good time too since while I was in DEP, I had started my 2nd semester of college and I was failing my exams for all of my classes. That semester tanked my GPA pretty well. The bitterness took over my mind, and I lost motivation to study for my classes, especially after working my full time job and coming home late at night. I knew I couldn't keep persisting down that route, since it wasn't working. Took 2 years off of college to go through bootcamp and deploy, saved up money, plus my unit has a benefit of covering my tuition for in-state colleges. Learned so much about life, and also about general stress management and the importance of keeping my ambition. Came back rejuvenated, and rocked all my classes with my extra $. So now, I guess you could consider me the privileged one, but if I hadn't 1. persevered and 2. found a solution that helped me achieve my goals, I definitely would have dropped out by now and been working some unfulfilling job, so I would argue those factors are paramount to success.

However, the big point I want to make here is that, I am a prospective vet student that found a way to make it work, though all of my stresses (both from my perceived disadvantages AND from joining the military) to where I excelled in my undergraduate studies, in spite of everything. I let go of my bitterness about the income disparity and privilege that my friends had [because I now truly believe learning to overcome adversary builds better people, too]. Along with that, I continued to add more to my plate later in college, and actually did better, even with a job. And that, is what I personally think the veterinary school admissions committees are looking at. Because vet school, as commonly understood, is incredibly difficult, and less forgiving than undergraduate. And life is life, it will still happen. Unfortunately, we don't get a break while in vet school, stressors will still pop up. No one really knows how vet school will go, and bad situations can arise or extreme life events, that can wreck our plans and create significant financial stress. If one's application presents themselves as someone whose grades suffer in situations of extreme stress/adversity, they can fall behind FAST in vet school. I think the last thing that anyone wants is someone to fail out of vet school, because not only is that bad for the school, but that is a HUGE financial debt for an individual to carry, especially one who likely doesn't have an easy way to pay it off.

All of this to say that I completely understand where you are coming from, and I have been there. But being on the other side of it now, it makes sense to me why it is the way it is. If I hadn't took the time away from school to grow and pursue other things to set myself up for success while in my undergraduate studies, I don't think I would have even finished my degree.

Definitely saying all this for the discussion aspect, no negative feelings at all and I love me a good debate as long as it's civil and as long as we can avoid hurting anyone's feelings. If anything that I said comes across hurtful or otherwise tone-deaf, please let me know. I absolutely don't mean to disrespect anyone with my perspective.

From one single parent kid to another, *high five* - it’s tough out there.

 

[megadorkie]

From one single parent kid to another, *high five* - it’s tough out there.

Whooh, yeah. I've recently been learning about the childhood triggers/traumas that stuff like that leaves us to deal with as adults, since it feels like it's all coming to the surface now. Gotta love epigenetics, lol. Hugs to you.

 

[indysadventures]

Whooh, yeah. I've recently been learning about the childhood triggers/traumas that stuff like that leaves us to deal with as adults, since it feels like it's all coming to the surface now. Gotta love epigenetics, lol. Hugs to you.

Our methylation patterns are out to get us.

 

[wayne455338]

^^^This, we are not saying that everyone who gets in is someone with privilege. As my post acknowledged, yes, there are students who have gone through extenuating circumstances who have gotten in. There are students who low GPAs who have gotten in. There are schools who will look beyond GPA. And as I have stated, I am not saying that nobody is a hard worker in these school. But the proportion of disadvantaged students who get into vet school vs advantaged one is disproportional, and this is evident in, not only in vet schools, but all aspects of life. However, it is up to the vet field to change this in vet schools. With all due respect, I don't believe that this is a subjective experience when we see this in all aspects of life. I have so many experiences where this is true, not only in the vet field. As disappointing as it is, because someone really does need to get in there and initiate this change, I think we can all just agree to disagree and leave it at this. This kind of conversation can quickly get very heated and we should leave SDN as a safe space for all.

I think you have a strong prejudice on the high GPA students based on the statement you have above. My understanding from your statement is that you automatically think most of high GPA students have good finance and family supporting them to successfully get into vet school, and they don’t deserve that because you think you work harder than them as you have “exhausted circumstances”. Sorry I get a really negative vibe from you as I am a 4.0 student with my Master degree and I feel really offended because I also work super hard to get into vet school. As you mention and I agree that schools should look applicants not only based on the GPA. However, from the admission standpoint, first of all, they don’t have that much time to look over every single applicant with their unique background. I am not saying they don’t look every single one, but they can not know every applicant well in detail in 20-30mins. Most of the admission team members are professors and clinicians they volunteer to be on the admission team. Second, each school only has about 100-150 seats for each cycle, and now each school has up to 2000 or even more applicants. If you are on the admission team and busy as a doctor or professor, how do you choose your preferred applicants from hundreds of applications in front of you? Third, vet school choose applicants whom they think the most fit to their program and can pass NAVLE. You said people have high Master degree GPA, but do you notice master degree only have up to 9-12 credits per semester? Master degree is build for people who are interested in the research topic and support them for the research, it is not class basis. Therefore, master degree can only show to the admission team that you have ability to do advance research and study, but still can not prove you can handle intense class schedule in vet school. Same concept as taking classes, if an applicant can only take 1 or 2 classes per semester, do you trust this applicant can handle vet school classes? For reference, I have 8 classes this semester with 21 credits. Whatever the reason that the person can only take 1-2 classes in one semester, it will still be concerned on the side of the admission team.
As all the Discussions above, I am not going to repeat the topics that already mentioned. Yes, everyone works so hard to get into vet school, and we all have unique background. I think that people who getting good GPAs is not because of “the privilege”. Even with good grade students, I believe they all have hard times some time in thier lives. They deserve to have that advantage when they apply to any of the professional schools because this is how the admission process works. One question for anyone, with over 2000 applications and you can only accept 150 people, what requirement are you initially using to cut down the numbers? Experiences? Degree level? Or something else? GPA is the only thing that all applicants have and the most fair requirement to everyone. Schools do give chances for people to explain their “special circumstances” and it means they still value low GPA applicants with whatever their working or life experiences. Again, I understand how frustrated the application process is and agree programs should do better job evaluating all the materials that the applicants brings to the table. However, I also think that it is important to know why schools prefer higher GPA over lower GPA, and value grades more than experiences in most of the cases.

 

[KK5820]

I certainly agree with you that the United States itself is an oligarchy parading around in the mask of a meritocracy. The rest of your opinions are valid as they’re built from your lived experiences, and it’s okay to feel frustrated. But some of your information about admissions, including med school, is anecdotal and short-sighted.

You talk a lot of privilege, and we definitely have a privilege problem within the US. I wish it weren’t so, and I hope we can turn the tide. There’s privilege in getting great grades in undergrad, but I also think that there is privilege in being able to acquire a master’s degree to try to raise your GPA, or to be able to afford to go back to school at all to prep for another career (I fall into this category). I think vet schools resist weighing master’s degrees too heavily because they don’t want to suddenly make that a requirement, or to give students who can afford an additional degree an advantage over those who cannot. Thus, focusing on undergraduate GPA keeps the playing field as equitable as possible.

As you move forward and become a doctor, just keep in mind that we cannot know what another person faces just on the surface. I’m not disagreeing with you - the world sucks. It’s cruel and unfair and mercurial. But, one time a mentor told me that all we see of another is their “front door” - we don’t see their home. We don’t see what they hide. Not all disabilities are visible. Not all trauma is apparent. Not all those who have high GPAs had enough money to just sit back and do nothing but study. Some did - but not all.

I was fortunate enough to be accepted this cycle, and I am a high GPA applicant. But I’m also older. I am disabled. I come from a family plagued with anger and addiction. I worked 20-30 hour weeks at 2+ jobs in undergrad and 30-40 hour weeks while going back to school to get my prerequisites.

I’m lucky to be generally healthy, my disabilities aside. And I could not have achieved what I have without accommodations, though I did not receive those until long after undergrad. And I am certainly immensely fortunate to have a supportive partner who has helped me rebuild my life from rock bottom.

I recognize that my high GPA got me in the door. But, as a disabled, queer, non-traditional applicant, I do feel that schools valued my viewpoints and interacted with my stories during interviews. I do feel like they cared about me and my experiences.

Admissions teams have to make really hard decisions, and GPA is one of those metrics that they need to utilize to make reasonable cuts to applicant pools. It’s not ideal, it’s imperfect, but I do think at the end of the day admissions teams are not elitists reveling in exclusion. I do truly feel like they’re trying to make the most equitable decisions possible with the finite resources they have.

They recognize, as do all of us here I’d argue, that diversity is necessary in vet med. @KK5820 makes excellent points as well - it is okay to be frustrated - it is not okay to imply that admissions has little to do with aptitude and negate the accomplishments of many here. It can be multiple things at once.

You’re always able to verbalize what I can’t, lol! My thoughts exactly, you never know what’s happening behind closed doors. Even those who appear privileged can have extenuating circumstances that you would never know of.

 

[battie]

This also doesn't touch on the self selective process of getting into advanced skills degree programs and skills. Vet med is somewhat unique in that the majority of students are middle to upper middle class. There's self exclusions on both the upper class and lower economic classes as vet school is difficult to obtain while also not prestigious enough for a lot of upper class parents.

Self exclusions starts as early as high school where students are told they aren't good enough to college or other unhelpful mindsets and it eventually becomes a mantra. You can't go to vet school if you don't go to college in the first place. Likewise, becoming a vet isn't good enough for a lot of people's parents. Can't go to vet school if your parents push you to law, tech, or human med.

 

[JaynaAli]

I’m not on a vet school admissions committee, but I have to say, as someone who has been hanging around SDN for like 15 years now, the number of explanation and personal statements I have seen/read/heard about that talk about enduring sexual assaults, mental and physical health struggles, and family health struggles is way higher than you’d think (unfortunately). And I’m sure there are others who have gone through those things and not shared that as well. Sure there are people who didn’t have those things to overcome and may have had an easier time, but I think far more people have faced significant adversity than it looks like on the surface. You don’t know what is going on in someone’s life now or in the past.

 

[Cowsrcool]

I’m not on a vet school admissions committee, but I have to say, as someone who has been hanging around SDN for like 15 years now, the number of explanation and personal statements I have seen/read/heard about that talk about enduring sexual assaults, mental and physical health struggles, and family health struggles is way higher than you’d think (unfortunately). And I’m sure there are others who have gone through those things and not shared that as well. Sure there are people who didn’t have those things to overcome and may have had an easier time, but I think far more people have faced significant adversity than it looks like on the surface. You don’t know what is going on in someone’s life now or in the past.

I appreciate everyone’s input so far and honestly don’t have anything to add except to echo this sentiment- the past few cycles I have applied with other peers and university colleagues. Every single one had an explanation statement written for their application. I think more people than not use this explanation statement - whether they know their explanation is serious or not. Most talked about Covid/mental health and whatnot. I think the use of the explanation statement has gotten overused (or just increasingly used- I cannot speak to overuse as I don’t know peoples individual details) in the past few years because of Covid and everything else happening in the world that it kind of muddies the narrative and almost everyone has something bad happening/previously happened to talk about. Therefore, making it EVEN harder for admissions committees to weed through these.

 

[katiemcat]

Just adding to the convo: implying that most people that have been accepted got to where they are via privilege and nepotism is lowkey insane. I would even go as far to say this is extremely uncommon. My classmates have been through some **** (cancer, war, discrimination, you name it.) Not trying to dox my self but I grew up in a very unstable household with an addict parent, where I lived in poverty and faced abuse. I worked my ass off to get a full ride to undergrad. I worked full time during undergrad to pay my bills and stayed up late studying to get decent grades. No one helped me get where I am except myself. To try and take the accomplishment of getting into vet school from others is disrespectful. In this field we get enough **** from clients, we don’t need our peers tearing us down as well. Applications and rejections are frustrating, gut wrenching even, I truly get it. But you’re taking your feelings out in an unhealthy manner.

 

[pp9]

I’m not on a vet school admissions committee, but I have to say, as someone who has been hanging around SDN for like 15 years now, the number of explanation and personal statements I have seen/read/heard about that talk about enduring sexual assaults, mental and physical health struggles, and family health struggles is way higher than you’d think (unfortunately). And I’m sure there are others who have gone through those things and not shared that as well. Sure there are people who didn’t have those things to overcome and may have had an easier time, but I think far more people have faced significant adversity than it looks like on the surface. You don’t know what is going on in someone’s life now or in the past.

I wanted to say this too.

I want to echo the point above that a master’s degree is a privilege that you may not realize. I certainly wouldn’t have been able to pursue a master’s as a prevet. Sometimes we all need a dose of perspective.

This is a classic ‘they only got in because of ____’ post. At least one comes up every single year. You have NO idea what a person’s application was like beyond what they choose to share online. People usually only share a handful of numbers and sometimes share 1-2 sentences on a challenge that made things harder for them. To make such a massive generalization that privilege is the key to acceptance based off of a minuscule amount of anecdotal data is wild.

Also, I noticed you’re really new to SDN both literally (@Shelea Caroeaetogae) and not quite new but not very active (@5Hs5Ts.) a handful of us are going on 10+ years. We’ve had people in wheelchairs, someone who experienced homelessness, second/third career applicants, people from unstable homes, people with chronic illness or other disabilities, first generation college students, people who have worked to support their families while going to school, etc. and that’s just on SDN, which gets a relatively small % of users every year, even fewer who stick around and tell us their stories.

it’s easy to be bitter when you don’t get in. Very easy. Everyone wants to point the finger at something they can’t control (background, race, gender, etc) because it feels better than realizing your app/grades/hours/etc could have been better, or that fate just wasn’t in your side this cycle. We’ve had both sides of this particular discussion - ‘I’m not from a disadvantaged background, people who are get in easier than I will (usually paired with a complaint about their supposed lower stats)’ and ‘I’m from a disadvantaged background, people with privilege get in easier than I will.’ Both and neither are true at the same time.

And just a more personal note since this thread was resurrected for no apparent reason, but I know turtle personally and also read their app/essays/etc. It wasn’t lack of ‘privilege’ that was the issue, it was questionable academic stats paired with an entirely unconvincing personal statement.

Also wanted to echo this as someone who was the recipient of many 'How did you get in and I didn't?!' comments (for vet school, a certain ultra-competitive internship I got as a pre-vet, and ultimately my breaking into zoo med). Maybe I am reading some of these comments (from multiple posters) and taking it a bit personally as a result, but entitlement and jealousy don't look cute on anyone.

Anyone harboring these sentiments should take a step back and realize that once you get an acceptance, someone is going to say the exact same things about you and diminish your years of hard work, tears, and countless hours of your life to luck, random chance, 'Well I must have slipped through the cracks and you didn't,' 'you must know someone on the committee,' etc. Just don't go there, don't fall into that trap. It is tempting to temporarily soothe yourself by blaming something 'out of your control' when it comes to situations like these, but it won't fix anything for you and will push you away from striving to improve yourself/your application every year.

Quoting myself here for obvious reasons

 

[DVM882029]

However, the big point I want to make here is that, I am a prospective vet student that found a way to make it work, though all of my stresses (both from my perceived disadvantages AND from joining the military) to where I excelled in my undergraduate studies, in spite of everything. I let go of my bitterness about the income disparity and privilege that my friends had [because I now truly believe learning to overcome adversary builds better people, too]. Along with that, I continued to add more to my plate later in college, and actually did better, even with a job. And that, is what I personally think the veterinary school admissions committees are looking at. Because vet school, as commonly understood, is incredibly difficult, and less forgiving than undergraduate. And life is life, it will still happen. Unfortunately, we don't get a break while in vet school, stressors will still pop up. No one really knows how vet school will go, and bad situations can arise or extreme life events, that can wreck our plans and create significant financial stress. If one's application presents themselves as someone whose grades suffer in situations of extreme stress/adversity, they can fall behind FAST in vet school. I think the last thing that anyone wants is someone to fail out of vet school, because not only is that bad for the school, but that is a HUGE financial debt for an individual to carry, especially one who likely doesn't have an easy way to pay it off.

I think the difference in applicants comes from this perspective. You let go of the bitterness, you embraced your journey, and you didn't make it into a list of excuses and "woe is me" stories. This is how lower GPA/lower hours/non-trads/etc get in: By embracing and accepting their own story and turning it into a massive strength.

Just adding to the convo: implying that most people that have been accepted got to where they are via privilege and nepotism is lowkey insane. I would even go as far to say this is extremely uncommon. My classmates have been through some **** (cancer, war, discrimination, you name it.) Not trying to dox my self but I grew up in a very unstable household with an addict parent, where I lived in poverty and faced abuse. I worked my ass off to get a full ride to undergrad. I worked full time during undergrad to pay my bills and stayed up late studying to get decent grades. No one helped me get where I am except myself. To try and take the accomplishment of getting into vet school from others is disrespectful. In this field we get enough **** from clients, we don’t need our peers tearing us down as well. Applications and rejections are frustrating, gut wrenching even, I truly get it. But you’re taking your feelings out in an unhealthy manner.

I'm with you. Single mom with severe, severeeeeee mental illness, a stint in the foster care system because of said mother, dropped out of high school and got my GED to work as a teenager because otherwise we had nothing. My 20s were a mess of being poor and alone while trying to learn how to adult with zero support from a parental figure. Hence, vet school in my 30s coming off a 4.0 fall semester of 7 classes. Lemme tell you what it took to get here: EVERYTHING and more, with the help of the village I cultivated in my adult years of amazing friends who have become my family and, first and foremost, my husband (whom I met at 30 years of age).

 

[Cowsrcool]

I think the difference in applicants comes from this perspective. You let go of the bitterness, you embraced your journey, and you didn't make it into a list of excuses and "woe is me" stories. This is how lower GPA/lower hours/non-trads/etc get in: By embracing and accepting their own story and turning it into a massive strength.

THIS!! Is huge in admissions. I spoke with various vets when applying about personal statements and extenuating statements and they often say the mistake people make is stating all the problems they went through but NOT connecting it back to HOW they worked through it and HOW it has contributed to their further success and goals. They want to see how you worked through what happened to you and how you came out on the other side of it. You made a really great point here! Congratulations on your successes 💘

 

[pp9]

I think the difference in applicants comes from this perspective. You let go of the bitterness, you embraced your journey, and you didn't make it into a list of excuses and "woe is me" stories. This is how lower GPA/lower hours/non-trads/etc get in: By embracing and accepting their own story and turning it into a massive strength.

THIS!! Is huge in admissions. I spoke with various vets when applying about personal statements and extenuating statements and they often say the mistake people make is stating all the problems they went through but NOT connecting it back to HOW they worked through it and HOW it has contributed to their further success and goals. They want to see how you worked through what happened to you and how you came out on the other side of it. You made a really great point here! Congratulations on your successes 💘

Or sometimes, honestly, a big thing that comes with maturity is recognizing that maybe your struggle isn't exactly going to compel anyone. This is hard to word in a PC way, but not everything warrants an explanation statement. Applicants need to use their best judgement (if applicable...) and not try to grasp for straws to explain things that either don't need explaining, or straight up try to use an explanation that won't do you any favors. If you are trying to use the explanation statement, it needs to be aggressively proofread and one needs to seek honest, frank feedback. There is a reasonable risk that the explanation statement might unintentionally give off the impression that an applicant is immature, has very little life experience, etc. which are red flags in the veterinary admissions world.

There are a few schools that openly state that they take interest in hearing from those that feel they came from a disadvantageous socioeconomic background (aka consider it during admissions) in some way shape or form. UC Davis comes to mind for the present times. I had my own personal experience with Michigan State, 10+ years ago - they actually granted extra points (they used to operate on a points-based admissions process) to those with a background deemed compelling enough. The hard part is when you have a certain background/life experience, and the school doesn't feel it warrants extra attention in whatever form...aka that's not what they are looking for in order to give out those points. It's a very touchy subject and a lot of people don't like getting honest opinions/feedback in this area. It's also hard to get good advice here because not every school openly considers these factors and the ones that do are not going to provide their criteria for what earns extra consideration.

ETA: Wanted to throw in another suggestion for the general crowd, but getting into a pissing match over who is more disadvantaged/who has it worse is a very dangerous game with no winners.

 

[Cowsrcool]

Or sometimes, honestly, a big thing that comes with maturity is recognizing that maybe your struggle isn't exactly going to compel anyone. This is hard to word in a PC way, but not everything warrants an explanation statement. Applicants need to use their best judgement (if applicable...) and not try to grasp for straws to explain things that either don't need explaining, or straight up try to use an explanation that won't do you any favors. If you are trying to use the explanation statement, it needs to be aggressively proofread and one needs to seek honest, frank feedback. There is a reasonable risk that the explanation statement might unintentionally give off the impression that an applicant is immature, has very little life experience, etc. which are red flags in the veterinary admissions world.

There are a few schools that openly state that they take interest in hearing from those that feel they came from a disadvantageous socioeconomic background (aka consider it during admissions) in some way shape or form. UC Davis comes to mind for the present times. I had my own personal experience with Michigan State, 10+ years ago - they actually granted extra points (they used to operate on a points-based admissions process) to those with a background deemed compelling enough. The hard part is when you have a certain background/life experience, and the school doesn't feel it warrants extra attention in whatever form...aka that's not what they are looking for in order to give out those points. It's a very touchy subject and a lot of people don't like getting honest opinions/feedback in this area. It's also hard to get good advice here because not every school openly considers these factors and the ones that do are not going to provide their criteria for what earns extra consideration.

ETA: Wanted to throw in another suggestion for the general crowd, but getting into a pissing match over who is more disadvantaged/who has it worse is a very dangerous game with no winners.

Huge agree pp! Thank you for this perspective

 

[indysadventures]

ETA: Wanted to throw in another suggestion for the general crowd, but getting into a pissing match over who is more disadvantaged/who has it worse is a very dangerous game with no winners.

It’s like being told you can’t be sad because someone has it worse or you can’t grieve because someone lost someone “more important” than you did. We all suffer, and it’s all relative, and it does no good to rip open wounds to prove ourselves worthy. I think our struggles all make us more alike than different, and when one points to another and decides it’s lesser, nobody wins.

For those applicants reading this: Unpacking privilege right now in the United States is even itself a moot point - unless you’re literally one of the few in power you are more like any other applicant than you are different. Embrace that. Be collaborative.

Everyone has suffered and thus suffering, with great exception, will always be relative. Requirements of living aside (i.e., I’m NOT discussing human rights here, I am fully in support of basic needs as a human right), suffering and hardship don’t entitle you to something - they simply allow you to empathize and connect with others who’ve experienced similar. You don’t get into vet school, med school, etc. because of your trauma, but for who you became despite it.

To be pointlessly cheesy - Don’t rely on what hurt you to set you apart. Rely instead on what healed you.

 

[DVM882029]

Or sometimes, honestly, a big thing that comes with maturity is recognizing that maybe your struggle isn't exactly going to compel anyone. This is hard to word in a PC way, but not everything warrants an explanation statement. Applicants need to use their best judgement (if applicable...) and not try to grasp for straws to explain things that either don't need explaining, or straight up try to use an explanation that won't do you any favors. If you are trying to use the explanation statement, it needs to be aggressively proofread and one needs to seek honest, frank feedback. There is a reasonable risk that the explanation statement might unintentionally give off the impression that an applicant is immature, has very little life experience, etc. which are red flags in the veterinary admissions world.

There are a few schools that openly state that they take interest in hearing from those that feel they came from a disadvantageous socioeconomic background (aka consider it during admissions) in some way shape or form. UC Davis comes to mind for the present times. I had my own personal experience with Michigan State, 10+ years ago - they actually granted extra points (they used to operate on a points-based admissions process) to those with a background deemed compelling enough. The hard part is when you have a certain background/life experience, and the school doesn't feel it warrants extra attention in whatever form...aka that's not what they are looking for in order to give out those points. It's a very touchy subject and a lot of people don't like getting honest opinions/feedback in this area. It's also hard to get good advice here because not every school openly considers these factors and the ones that do are not going to provide their criteria for what earns extra consideration.

ETA: Wanted to throw in another suggestion for the general crowd, but getting into a pissing match over who is more disadvantaged/who has it worse is a very dangerous game with no winners.

I agree with this 100%. To be fair, I had a really difficult childhood and life, really, up until my late 20s, but I also know people who came from a subjectively "perfect" home and family life yet they had a REALLY hard time too. Different challenges look different on the outside, but honestly, unless you're IN it, you don't know - you just don't. Resiliency does not come from coasting, and every person who has gotten into vet school has had to take most of the same courses we have. Just appreciate the diversity of the field and look at what you can learn from each other, that's how we evolve into DVMs.

 

[DVM882029]

THIS!! Is huge in admissions. I spoke with various vets when applying about personal statements and extenuating statements and they often say the mistake people make is stating all the problems they went through but NOT connecting it back to HOW they worked through it and HOW it has contributed to their further success and goals. They want to see how you worked through what happened to you and how you came out on the other side of it. You made a really great point here! Congratulations on your successes 💘

Thank you! I definitely came out a better, stronger, more empathetic person, and I've become someone who would have protected little me when I needed it most. That's as good as it can possibly get. I wouldn't trade my journey for anything, because of where I am now and I have so much life ahead of me to appreciate and celebrate. /cheesy.

 

[turtle36]

I got an email notification for this thread that there was still discourse happening here.

I think there is a lot of lingering bitterness about the application process as a whole. There is few concrete way to improve your application while feedback is essentially impossible to receive from any school. With the competition between so many applicants, it’s to be expected that people will lash out and make assumptions on what get’s people accepted.

Again, I don’t mean to be disrespectful but anyone applying right now under the current presidential administration seems a bit a naive to me. Are yall not concerned about the fact that they aim to gut the department of education and want to completely change how student loans are managed?? I understand pursuing your dreams and all but forget drowning in debt, this is quite literally going to have people be buried in it. Also as a queer student, I’ve seen how students and alumni have essentially been surrendered into political imprisonment by their universities for speaking out against this president or this countries disgusting genocidal foreign policies. I’d rather not be given over to ICE by my vet school I’m giving thousands of dollars to attend. And before anyone accuses me of fear mongering, check out how Lincoln-Memorial punished a vet student that posted their critique of Trump on their instagram earlier this year.

 

[pp9]

I got an email notification for this thread that there was still discourse happening here.

I think there is a lot of lingering bitterness about the application process as a whole. There is few concrete way to improve your application while feedback is essentially impossible to receive from any school. With the competition between so many applicants, it’s to be expected that people will lash out and make assumptions on what get’s people accepted.

Again, I don’t mean to be disrespectful but anyone applying right now under the current presidential administration seems a bit a naive to me. Are yall not concerned about the fact that they aim to gut the department of education and want to completely change how student loans are managed?? I understand pursuing your dreams and all but forget drowning in debt, this is quite literally going to have people be buried in it. Also as a queer student, I’ve seen how students and alumni have essentially been surrendered into political imprisonment by their universities for speaking out against this president or this countries disgusting genocidal foreign policies. I’d rather not be given over to ICE by my vet school I’m giving thousands of dollars to attend. And before anyone accuses me of fear mongering, check out how Lincoln-Memorial punished a vet student that posted their critique of Trump on their instagram earlier this year.

Taking it upon myself to speak for the entire veterinary profession, but most/all applicants are willing to become vets at almost any cost. Truly we can say all we want about the rate of return and what the degree is worth on this side of the fence, but a lottt of us ended up with OOS tuition and took those offers without a second thought. Granted, tuition is only going up every single year, and we didn't face the same political insanity that current applicants and students are right now (which is an entirely different can of worms). For every person that decides not to become a vet over $$, there are 30 more people in their place that will do it no matter the cost. As a culture, we push 'follow your dreams' on kids starting from very young ages. Idk if other countries/cultures do the same, or at least to this degree. We are conditioned to accept low pay/crap conditions in passion-driven fields, and that's after considering that US vets are some of the highest paid vets in the world.

With that said, the days of a private practice owner having a decent (if not very nice) house, new car, pool, expensive toys, etc are coming to an end. The people that we worked for 10-15+ years ago are either selling (to corporations, because the current gen of vets cannot afford to buy) or retiring. Those vets graduated with little or no debt, current graduates are leaving with as high as $450k in debt regularly. Pre-vets are going to start seeing more vets driving cars that are 15 years old with 200k+ miles, renting because they can't scrape together a down payment on a house, not having kids, and working full time with multiple side hustles to make ends meet. At the same time, the veterinary field is more visible than ever with multiple TV shows showing zoo, private practice, etc in multiple countries and creative editing makes it look super fun, they don't dare talk about the downsides. People want our jobs, and typically do not really understand the debt to income ratio and the work it takes to get here until they are in the middle of undergrad and really starting to look at the field. By then, the vast majority will have blinders on and be committed to getting in (and I mean getting in, as opposed to committed to being a vet. There's a difference). I myself was this person I just got lucky and was able to pay off my debt, and I do enjoy being a vet most days. There are a lot of vets that want out of the field entirely while still being in a mountain of debt.

 

[battie]

My younger cousin started working at the sketchy reptile store locally and now wants to be a reptile vet. And I unabashedly told her to wait. See what happens with loans. If the current plan goes through, I cannot in good conscience tell people to become vets. It's just not a good investment if you have to take out private loans.

I still have 105k in debt, but gained dead relative money to pay for the majority of school. I am going to set up a financial advisor meeting and want to make a 5 year plan to get rid of it ASAP once payments restart.

 

[turtle36]

My younger cousin started working at the sketchy reptile store locally and now wants to be a reptile vet. And I unabashedly told her to wait. See what happens with loans. If the current plan goes through, I cannot in good conscience tell people to become vets. It's just not a good investment if you have to take out private loans.

I still have 105k in debt, but gained dead relative money to pay for the majority of school. I am going to set up a financial advisor meeting and want to make a 5 year plan to get rid of it ASAP once payments restart.

I do wish veterinarians right now would be more transparent about this to prospective students like you are. I still see many pre-vet pages on other sites basically ignoring this topic completely. On facebook, a parent of a vet student who worked previously in loan management tried to make a long post about the changes and the post was removed. I really do not think a lot of these young adults in undergrad understand the magnitude of these changes (I know I wouldn’t at 18-22 years old) as the amount of debt that many more vet students (if not all) will be so much worse than before. The entire way loans are managed and financed will be completely altered if this administration gets to do as they describe. There is no shame in waiting, it’s what I’m doing.

 

[Shiloh47]

I got an email notification for this thread that there was still discourse happening here.

I think there is a lot of lingering bitterness about the application process as a whole. There is few concrete way to improve your application while feedback is essentially impossible to receive from any school. With the competition between so many applicants, it’s to be expected that people will lash out and make assumptions on what get’s people accepted.

Again, I don’t mean to be disrespectful but anyone applying right now under the current presidential administration seems a bit a naive to me. Are yall not concerned about the fact that they aim to gut the department of education and want to completely change how student loans are managed?? I understand pursuing your dreams and all but forget drowning in debt, this is quite literally going to have people be buried in it. Also as a queer student, I’ve seen how students and alumni have essentially been surrendered into political imprisonment by their universities for speaking out against this president or this countries disgusting genocidal foreign policies. I’d rather not be given over to ICE by my vet school I’m giving thousands of dollars to attend. And before anyone accuses me of fear mongering, check out how Lincoln-Memorial punished a vet student that posted their critique of Trump on their instagram earlier this year.

I’ve spent 3 years pursuing vet med as a goal with the understanding that student loans would be available for all professional students (as this has been the norm for countless before us). I have spent a lot of time working blue collar jobs before and during my education. Those low wage blue collar jobs were getting me nowhere. Rather than pass blame on the students applying now and labeling them naive, I feel it’s far more reasonable to call out the government officials trying to tear the rug out from under us with little to no warning in a horrendous bill that’s also trying to pass an innumerable amount of other cuts. I think a lot of people are concerned to put it mildly. With science based jobs having their funding cut left & right, and higher education now being severely limited, what are we going to tell our generation and those that come after us? To hope for anything beyond a low wage job is naive? I understand the cost of vet med and the implications of private loans that would make this career impossible if passed (which is the intended effect). I’m not okay with it but I won’t call someone naive for not having been able to tell the future after spending years working for something. It’s shame on the GOP and all who consider this bill

 

[battie]

I’m not okay with it but I won’t call someone naive for not having been able to tell the future after spending years working for something.

I think Turtle is saying people are naive if they know about this bill and are *still* considering becoming a veterinarian if it is passed in its current form. Even prior to this, the mentality of "it'll all work out" is saw, in particular on the APVMA Facebook page, was staggering. Cause it doesn't always just work out.

Both statements can be true. It's true that the government is wrong to pass a bill with these stipulations, and pre-vet students are naive to think this will all work out (if they know about the bill). Frankly, with the information that's out there about student loans in general, anyone who is considering college or is currently in college (let alone considering a doctoral degree) should heavily weigh the pros and cons of their chosen degree path, regardless of what it is. There is no reason that those considering/in college shouldn't know about what's going on.

 

[JaynaAli]

Even aside from the current government proposals, I do think there’s inherent naïveté among prevets about the costs, but I don’t necessarily think that’s the student’s fault and I certainly don’t mean it as an insult. I know as a pre-vet I vaguely thought about costs but went to it with a “it’ll work out” attitude. And luckily for me, thanks to scholarships, parents who could afford to help out, and below average debt coupled with a specialist salary, it has worked out well for me. But things are changing so rapidly and the costs for vet school are rising so fast. Salaries are higher too but not to the same degree and even for those pre-vets who think about the debt, I think it’s hard for many to imagine life and the associated costs on the other side. I remember being a prevet and even in vet school and trying to make theoretical budgets, but I had no idea how much taxes would be, what health insurance costs, that rent would rise so rapidly, etc. because I’d never been responsible for those things before. On paper when you have always been a student, it’s easy to say I’ll make 100k a year, put 50 towards loans, and be a-okay…but you don’t realize how expensive it is just to exist even outside of loans. That’s why those of us who have been around here for a decade plus and been through that preach going to the cheapest school, are willing to talk frankly about what our finances look like now, and encourage to really think about the debt, but deep down we know most people don’t. People who have been out working real jobs may have a better frame of reference, but I do think so many people get emotionally focused on getting in to vet school they ignore all the issues. Most are going to do it regardless, and I hope people don’t regret those decisions down the line, but we see that in the vet specific groups as well. The proposed changes definitely up the stakes significantly though and I’m worried about current prospective applicants because of it.

 

[Shiloh47]

I think Turtle is saying people are naive if they know about this bill and are *still* considering becoming a veterinarian if it is passed in its current form. Even prior to this, the mentality of "it'll all work out" is saw, in particular on the APVMA Facebook page, was staggering. Cause it doesn't always just work out.

Both statements can be true. It's true that the government is wrong to pass a bill with these stipulations, and pre-vet students are naive to think this will all work out (if they know about the bill). Frankly, with the information that's out there about student loans in general, anyone who is considering college or is currently in college (let alone considering a doctoral degree) should heavily weigh the pros and cons of their chosen degree path, regardless of what it is. There is no reason that those considering/in college shouldn't know about what's going on.

I agree it’s always good to know what’s going on and to weigh the cost & future earnings of your degree. I don’t follow any vet Facebook so it’s not on my radar.

This bill is so murky though, will it pass? Will the grandfathering provision stand? How would a private loan market react? As I stated in another thread, I’m starting vet school this fall and it’s hard to plan anything when I don’t know if this bill will go through or not and if loan access will be available for my whole 4 years. Do I pass up an acceptance I’m not guaranteed again because I don’t know what will happen? Again, I’m not encouraging anyone to move forward without thinking, but the situation is incredibly shattering and unfair and it’s hard to predict a decision you need to make now for an uncertain future.

Would waiting 4+ or more years make sense when you’re already over 25 for a degree that takes 4 years to get. The bill doesn’t just impact vet med but everyone looking into masters or PhDs. It’s always good to have a worst case scenario plan and not to follow an “it will all work out scenario” but I really don’t know what anyone is expected to do with this bills limitations other than trade school apprenticeships (or the military) if you’re poor.

 

[indysadventures]

I agree it’s always good to know what’s going on and to weigh the cost & future earnings of your degree. I don’t follow any vet Facebook so it’s not on my radar.

This bill is so murky though, will it pass? Will the grandfathering provision stand? How would a private loan market react? As I stated in another thread, I’m starting vet school this fall and it’s hard to plan anything when I don’t know if this bill will go through or not and if loan access will be available for my whole 4 years. Do I pass up an acceptance I’m not guaranteed again because I don’t know what will happen? Again, I’m not encouraging anyone to move forward without thinking, but the situation is incredibly shattering and unfair and it’s hard to predict a decision you need to make now for an uncertain future.

Would waiting 4+ or more years make sense when you’re already over 25 for a degree that takes 4 years to get. The bill doesn’t just impact vet med but everyone looking into masters or PhDs. It’s always good to have a worst case scenario plan and not to follow an “it will all work out scenario” but I really don’t know what anyone is expected to do with this bills limitations other than trade school apprenticeships (or the military) if you’re poor.

I swing between, “student loans won’t exist if we end up as extras on Mad Max Fury Road,” and “My god what am I doing.” I’ll be honest, as an older student, this wouldn’t be possible for me without a partner.

 

[battie]

but the situation is incredibly shattering and unfair and it’s hard to predict a decision you need to make now for an uncertain future.

I get that. It is completely unfair to pull the rug out from basically an entire generation of people who were taught college or bust, and go do what you love to boot.

Would waiting 4+ or more years make sense when you’re already over 25 for a degree that takes 4 years to get.

I don't think it does. I gave myself three cycles to get in and then I was going to stop. I started vet school at 25 after getting in on my third cycle. And then I repeated first year. I almost had to repeat second year, and told the dean that if I needed to repeat second year, I wouldn't come back. I'd leave. Both because of time (would be 30 graduating) and other life priorities (#momlife and financial stability). I didn't end up repeating second year and graduated at 29.

Sure, I'll give you that "everyone's life is different and so are their priorities". That's fair. Especially if those individuals are independently wealthy. But I try to feel my feels about something, get that all out, and then step back and look at the reality of the best and worst case scenarios. If the worst case scenario is tolerable, awesome, go for it.

But I try to help others keep this profession in perspective. It's a job. It can be some people's life work for sure. But even for a lot of specialists I personally know, it's still just a job. So is a job worth the financial insecurity of private student loans up into the 200ks? I plugged my home state into the VIN student loan calculator and there is one school that would cost a resident less than 200k (TAMU). That's a bad sign.

I really don’t know what anyone is expected to do with this bills limitations other than trade school apprenticeships (or the military) if you’re poor.

I will say, there are undergrads where it is viable to get a degree for less than 50k. My bachelor's degree, even without scholarships, would have been 40k. Between scholarships and working on campus, I graduated without debt. I don't know if I was Pell Grant eligible because I never used FAFSA for undergrad. Looking now, my school is still 10,000 per semester without scholarships as full cost of attendance. They give out scholarships like candy as well to the point where the degree is viable, even with this bill. So would a masters degree, though the options are limited at such a small school.

The problem is the exposure. The **only** reason I knew about them is they sent me an application packet. I definitely didn't know what I was doing applying to schools as a first gen student. So if high schoolers don't know to shop around, they're not going to find these small schools.

 

[turtle36]

Rather than pass blame on the students applying now and labeling them naive, I feel it’s far more reasonable to call out the government officials trying to tear the rug out from under us with little to no warning in a horrendous bill that’s also trying to pass an innumerable amount of other cuts. I think a lot of people are concerned to put it mildly.

Not looking to argue but just to clarify: I never implied the students are to blame. Also, it's more than just the GOP that are to blame, yes they wrote the bill and should be criticized accordingly but also many dems voted to approve Trump appointed cabinet positions and have been rather complicit in allowing this administration to do as they please. I thought I was obviously putting this blame on the lawmakers. I fear that point should be obvious and I'm genuinely confused how you reached this conclusion.

 

[pp9]

I do wish veterinarians right now would be more transparent about this to prospective students like you are. I still see many pre-vet pages on other sites basically ignoring this topic completely. On facebook, a parent of a vet student who worked previously in loan management tried to make a long post about the changes and the post was removed. I really do not think a lot of these young adults in undergrad understand the magnitude of these changes (I know I wouldn’t at 18-22 years old) as the amount of debt that many more vet students (if not all) will be so much worse than before. The entire way loans are managed and financed will be completely altered if this administration gets to do as they describe. There is no shame in waiting, it’s what I’m doing.

The majority of prevet/vet resources are chock full of toxic positivity. We see it on here a lot too, usually in the context of admissions, but not to the degree certain mega-popular FB groups do. The debt-free vets page, APVMA, and often NOMV are full of people basically saying 'Don't worry, it will be fine.'

Even aside from the current government proposals, I do think there’s inherent naïveté among prevets about the costs, but I don’t necessarily think that’s the student’s fault and I certainly don’t mean it as an insult.

100%. Prevets will read posts like this and automatically get defensive by nature, but it's not meant to be taken personally. It's a commentary on how people of a certain age truly just have their heads buried in sand. It's not an insult, it's not a slight, it's just fact. We were all in the exact same boat in that phase of life. Until you have left the education bubble and lived life, you don't know much about the real world because it's not possible until you've lived those experiences. In the context of pre-vet (or pre-professional anything, really) the vast majority of people have not been out in the real world until they are working their first DVM job.

On paper when you have always been a student, it’s easy to say I’ll make 100k a year, put 50 towards loans, and be a-okay…but you don’t realize how expensive it is just to exist even outside of loans.

I often think back to the guy in the APVMA group years ago who said something like 'I'll make 125k a year, pay 100k to loans, and live off 25k, and be debt-free in four years.' It's permanently etched into my brain because a lot of people think this way. Most people haven't even dealt with their own taxes until they're out of vet school and realize how much money they earn but will never see. Shoot, there's people that haven't even earned a paycheck until their first DVM job. The latter is uncommon I think, but it happens.

I feel it’s far more reasonable to call out the government officials trying to tear the rug out from under us with little to no warning in a horrendous bill that’s also trying to pass an innumerable amount of other cuts.

Not that I disagree, but the writing has been on the wall. Changes to loans, for better or worse, have happened in every administration that I can recall in my adult/conscious life. There are absolutely liberals who think we need to overhaul education/loans/etc and don't disagree with this bill. The problem is the angle that is being used to approach it - they are putting the onus on the students, not the schools/system. Make education unattainable by killing loan options so students don't take out loans they can't repay vs. make education attainable so students don't have to take out loans (or at least less loans) and don't make interest on education loans predatory.

 

[indysadventures]

I fear that point should be obvious and I'm genuinely confused how you reached this conclusion.

I think some of your tone here may be part of the problem. This is condescending and rude.

 

[pp9]

I think some of your tone here may be part of the problem. This is condescending and rude.

I didn't think there was a 'tone' implication here. Having been on these threads for approx. 1 million years, and having been on both ends of this type of conversation, people naturally feel a type of way when someone points certain things out.

It is a bit naive to run full-blast towards something when the main way of obtaining that something is up in the air. I'm not going to say whether someone should or should not go to vet school. Some people are more risk-averse than others and that's really where the difference in opinions lies.

 

[turtle36]

I think some of your tone here may be part of the problem. This is condescending and rude.

Tone is not always conveyed well over text, but trust I'm not trying to be rude to anyone. Pointing out that there is a general theme of naivety about this issue was never meant to read as an insult to anyone

 

[indysadventures]

Tone is not always conveyed well over text, but trust I'm not trying to be rude to anyone. Pointing out that there is a general theme of naivety about this issue was never meant to read as an insult to anyone

I’m just referring to the specific quote above. I can appreciate your points and I share your anger about the loan situation.

 

[indysadventures]

I didn't think there was a 'tone' implication here. Having been on these threads for approx. 1 million years, and having been on both ends of this type of conversation, people naturally feel a type of way when someone points certain things out.

It is a bit naive to run full-blast towards something when the main way of obtaining that something is up in the air. I'm not going to say whether someone should or should not go to vet school. Some people are more risk-averse than others and that's really where the difference in opinions lies.

Respect your point and I agree - if I hadn’t been admitted this cycle, I would likely be waiting and/or only applying to select schools. The loan outlook for the class of 2030 is truly dystopian.

If I knew I’d need to take out significant (or really any) private loans as a given I’d probably have just scrapped vet med and given in to my dream of moving to Italy and being a tour guide in Rome.

Everyone should have a healthy fear of private student loans. I only learned after watching a friend deal with a small undergraduate loan that became a nightmare in hidden costs without protections.

Some schools DGAF either. Went to an accepted students day and the financial services department head literally said that private loans were basically equal with public and the “market will step up to fill the gap.” Needless to say, I’m not going to said school.

 

[battie]

given in to my dream of moving to Italy and being a tour guide in Rome.

****ing love this plan tbh

I’m not going to said school.

👀

 

[indysadventures]

****ing love this plan tbh



👀

Don’t tempt me with a good time - the U-Haul’s packed, maybe I’ll just head to Italy instead. 🤣

 

[Shiloh47]

Not looking to argue but just to clarify: I never implied the students are to blame. Also, it's more than just the GOP that are to blame, yes they wrote the bill and should be criticized accordingly but also many dems voted to approve Trump appointed cabinet positions and have been rather complicit in allowing this administration to do as they please. I thought I was obviously putting this blame on the lawmakers. I fear that point should be obvious and I'm genuinely confused how you reached this conclusion.

Not looking to argue either, haha. Guess things just don’t translate well without body language. I don’t think anything I said was genuinely confusing though in my response, and the point is obvious that the bill is bad for us and lawmakers are to blame. Just giving some perspective to the naive comment from someone on the other side of it.

Like Indy said if I wasn’t accepted this cycle to a school, I wouldn’t reapply in class of 2030 if that bill passed. Class of 2029 is the last (if the bill passes) that will potentially have access to grad plus. Not sure what students will do in the future if it goes through. Perpetually wait I guess until something better is reinstated or move out of the US if they want to be a vet.

 

[oweue]

as someone applying for a third time this cycle, I know what I’m going into and honestly feel like there is a lack of a choice. my other career option is going back for a masters in some kind of environmental work, but what’s my job outlook for that? I don’t have any other experience relevant for jobs. any other science jobs also need a masters. I know people with tons of research experience graduating with a masters in biotech, has applied to hundreds of jobs, and only gotten an interview at 2. other than vet med being my passion, any other career pivot in this climate is also detrimental for me

 

[twelvetigers]

Just in case anyone wants to know, I paid my loans off in 2019 and work in a low-stress area that I do enjoy and that is not at risk of being replaced by AI. If I zippy-zooped in a Time Machine back to 2010 when I was about to apply for the third time, I would hesitate for a moment and then pick something else to do. If I had a way to meet the people in my class that I really enjoyed getting to know without *actually* going to vet school, I wouldn't even hesitate in the choice.

I've been here a while, as you can see. I mostly try not to be a curmudgeon with all the fuzzy-tailed 23 year olds excitedly applying - honestly, I don't even read like 75% of the threads and I'm gone for a month at a time usually - but I still remember being the fuzzy-tailed one and now I firmly see the other side of it. I was 100% in the "I made up my mind so I'm doing it" club. I was a GT kid, graduated high in my class, had a hard time in early college because it wasn't as easy to be the smart kid, but then rallied and clawed my way through ****ty jobs and disliked classes until I finally go what I wanted. And, yeah, I guess it shaped me as a person - but I don't feel attached to that path from the other side. It kind of sucked, honestly.