Should I apply to more programs?

[SimonSez]

Hello Everyone,

I need some advice regarding the programs that I applied to. I am an IMG and I am wondering if my program list contains too many programs that I am really unlikely to get into.
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I have good USMLE scores ( Step 1 = 255, Step 2 CK = 262 and Step 2 CS = passed on first attempt) and got Honours in Medicine in Med School but the rest of my CV is not very good at all. I graduated med school in 2007 and I don't have any research publications. I have 2 good recent LoR's but the third is an old one (from 2007 when I graduated med school). I have no US clinical experience.

Since graduating I have worked in Internal Medicine and in Emergency Medicine at one of the local hospitals. However, I have been out of work for the last 5 months and will most likely wait until after my interviews (assuming I get any!) before I start working again. This is to ensure that I have the time to schedule interviews and go to as much as possible (which would be extremely difficult if I started working again).

My program list is as follows:

University of Alabama Medical Center Program, Birmingham, AL Internal Medicine
University of Arizona Program/UPHK, Tucson, AZ Internal Medicine
University of Connecticut Program, Farmington, CT Internal Medicine
George Washington University Program, Washington, DC Internal Medicine
Howard University Program, Washington, DC Internal Medicine
Washington Hospital Center Program, Washington, DC Internal Medicine
Florida Hospital Medical Center Program, Orlando, FL Internal Medicine
Mayo School of Graduate Medical Education (Jacksonville) Program, Jacksonville, FL Internal Medicine
Mount Sinai Medical Center of Florida Program, Miami Beach, FL Internal Medicine
University of Florida College of Medicine-Jacksonville Program, Jacksonville, FL Internal Medicine
University of Florida Program, Gainesville, FL Internal Medicine
University of Miami (JFK Medical Center), Atlantis, FL Internal Medicine
University of Miami-Jackson Memorial Medical Center Program, Miami, FL Internal Medicine
St Joseph Hospital Program, Chicago, IL Internal Medicine
Brigham and Women's Hospital Program, Boston, MA Internal Medicine
Massachusetts General Hospital Program, Boston, MA Internal Medicine
University of Massachusetts Medical School - University Campus Program, Worcester, MA Internal Medicine
Johns Hopkins University Bayview Medical Center Program, Baltimore, MD Internal Medicine
Johns Hopkins University Program, Baltimore, MD Internal Medicine
Johns Hopkins University/Sinai Hospital Program, Baltimore, MD Internal Medicine
Maryland General Hospital Program, Baltimore, MD Internal Medicine
St Agnes Hospital Program, Baltimore, MD Internal Medicine
St Joseph Mercy Hospital Program, Ann Arbor, MI Internal Medicine
Wayne State University/Detroit Medical Center Program, Detroit, MI Internal Medicine
Drexel University College of Medicine/Saint Peter's University Hospital, New Brunswick, NJ Internal Medicine
Englewood Hospital and Medical Center Program, Englewood, NJ Internal Medicine
Jersey City Medical Center Program, Jersey City, NJ Internal Medicine
Seton Hall University School of Graduate Medical Education Program, Elizabeth, NJ Internal Medicine
Albert Einstein College of Medicine (Jacobi) Program, Bronx, NY Internal Medicine
Albert Einstein College of Medicine at Beth Israel Medical Center Program, New York, NY Internal Medicine
Albert Einstein College of Medicine/Montefiore Medical Center Program, Bronx, NY Internal Medicine
Lincoln Medical and Mental Health Center Program, Bronx, NY Internal Medicine
Mount Sinai School of Medicine (Bronx) Program, Bronx, NY Internal Medicine
Mount Sinai School of Medicine Program, New York, NY Internal Medicine
Rochester General Hospital Program, Rochester, NY Internal Medicine
SUNY Health Science Center at Brooklyn Program, Brooklyn, NY Internal Medicine
SUNY Upstate Medical University at Syracuse Program, Syracuse, NY Internal Medicine
SUNY at Stony Brook Program, Stony Brook, NY Internal Medicine
University of Rochester Categorical Medicine at Strong Memorial Hospital, Rochester, NY Internal Medicine
Cleveland Clinic Foundation Program, Cleveland, OH Internal Medicine
Albert Einstein Medical Center Categorical Program, Philadelphia, PA Internal Medicine
St Luke's Hospital Program, Bethlehem, PA Internal Medicine
University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio Program, San Antonio, TX Internal Medicine
Eastern Virginia Medical School Program, Norfolk, VA Internal Medicine
Marshfield Clinic-St Joseph's Hospital Program, Marshfield, WI Internal Medicine
Marshall University School of Medicine Program, Huntington, WV Internal Medicine
Is this a reasonable list? Should I apply to more programs? Are there any programs in particular that are not on my list that I should consider applying to?

Thanks!

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[SimonSez]

*bump*

any advice would be greatly appreciated guys!

 

[jdh71]

Oh my. You really applied to some places you have zero chances of getting an interview at (not trying to be mean, just saying someone didn't advise you very well).

Yes. You will likely need to apply to more places for residency. Add more community programs in the large cities. You might get an interview at a handful of the programs on that list but it's still a ways from there to actually matching for an IMG. Your lack of residency following a graduation in 2007 is also a red flag, so I hope it addressed in your PS.

Good luck man.

 

[SimonSez]

Oh my. You really applied to some places you have zero chances of getting an interview at (not trying to be mean, just saying someone didn't advise you very well).

Yes. You will likely need to apply to more places for residency. Add more community programs in the large cities. You might get an interview at a handful of the programs on that list but it's still a ways from there to actually matching for an IMG. Your lack of residency following a graduation in 2007 is also a red flag, so I hope it addressed in your PS.

Good luck man.

Thanks for your input. I know that you're not trying to be mean but just saying it as it is (which I appreciate). I will apply to some more community based programs. I just hope that it is not too late.

I do have residency training following graduation though. I worked in Internal Medicine and Emergency Medicine as a resident since graduating in 2007. I've only been out of work for about 5 months now, and that's only because I have been focusing on doing some research.

Thanks again for your advice.

 

[gutonc]

Oh my. You really applied to some places you have zero chances of getting an interview at (not trying to be mean, just saying someone didn't advise you very well).

Yes. You will likely need to apply to more places for residency. Add more community programs in the large cities. You might get an interview at a handful of the programs on that list but it's still a ways from there to actually matching for an IMG. Your lack of residency following a graduation in 2007 is also a red flag, so I hope it addressed in your PS.

Good luck man.

Outside of politics, I rarely disagree with jdh but I will here (assuming he's not being sarcastic, which is a big assumption on my part).

You have about 5 programs on your rather extensive list which I would consider in any way competitive (and 3 of them are in the top 5-10 programs in the country, why you applied to them is anyone's guess, but good luck). I can think of 30 or so programs aside from what you've listed where, based on your stats, you'd have a decent chance. You have two options at this point.

1. Wait and see how you do (if you get 15 interviews from the current crop, you're golden)
2. Spam your app to another 20-50 programs and see what happens.

It's only money after all and unlike a USIMG, you have other options if you don't match (you can just stay put in whatever registrar-ish job you have now).

 

[jdh71]

Thanks for your input. I know that you're not trying to be mean but just saying it as it is (which I appreciate). I will apply to some more community based programs. I just hope that it is not too late.

I do have residency training following graduation though. I worked in Internal Medicine and Emergency Medicine as a resident since graduating in 2007. I've only been out of work for about 5 months now, and that's only because I have been focusing on doing some research.

Thanks again for your advice.

Oh! My bad for not reading correctly. Still . . . why did those gigs not work out? It's a red flag. Make sure it's explained. If you've got experience AND you've got a former PD who will vouch for you, I think you're sitting better than I first thought. Though . . . I'd still hit up a few more community program. Ask yourself if you're ok with not doing residency next year, if no, then I think you'll need a few more "safeties".

 

[jdh71]

Outside of politics, I rarely disagree with jdh but I will here (assuming he's not being sarcastic, which is a big assumption on my part).

You have about 5 programs on your rather extensive list which I would consider in any way competitive (and 3 of them are in the top 5-10 programs in the country, why you applied to them is anyone's guess, but good luck). I can think of 30 or so programs aside from what you've listed where, based on your stats, you'd have a decent chance. You have two options at this point.

1. Wait and see how you do (if you get 15 interviews from the current crop, you're golden)
2. Spam your app to another 20-50 programs and see what happens.

It's only money after all and unlike a USIMG, you have other options if you don't match (you can just stay put in whatever registrar-ish job you have now).

I had no idea you didn't like my politics.

 

[SimonSez]

Outside of politics, I rarely disagree with jdh but I will here (assuming he's not being sarcastic, which is a big assumption on my part).

You have about 5 programs on your rather extensive list which I would consider in any way competitive (and 3 of them are in the top 5-10 programs in the country, why you applied to them is anyone's guess, but good luck). I can think of 30 or so programs aside from what you've listed where, based on your stats, you'd have a decent chance. You have two options at this point.

1. Wait and see how you do (if you get 15 interviews from the current crop, you're golden)
2. Spam your app to another 20-50 programs and see what happens.

It's only money after all and unlike a USIMG, you have other options if you don't match (you can just stay put in whatever registrar-ish job you have now).

I guess I'll hold out a bit longer and see how much interviews I get. I only have two interview offers so far (I submitted my application on Sept. 1st). If I don't get much more by the end of the first week in October I'll apply to some more community based programs. Do you think that is a reasonable plan?

Do you think you could recommend some of those programs that you said you thought I may have a decent chance of matching into? It would help a lot. Thanks.

 

[SimonSez]

Oh! My bad for not reading correctly. Still . . . why did those gigs not work out? It's a red flag. Make sure it's explained. If you've got experience AND you've got a former PD who will vouch for you, I think you're sitting better than I first thought. Though . . . I'd still hit up a few more community program. Ask yourself if you're ok with not doing residency next year, if no, then I think you'll need a few more "safeties".

The reason I left Internal Medicine was because I wanted to get some experience working in Emergency Medicine. I thought that as a young doctor it would have been good experience and would have helped make me a better internist when I returned to Internal Med. I have a good LoR from the last Attending I worked with in Internal Med.

I left Emergency Med because I wanted to get involved in a research project. I guess I thought that if I had a publication I would have a better chance of matching into a program. The only reason I have not resumed working again is that I want to make sure that I have time to go to as much interviews as possible. If I start working again it would seriously limit that number. It is very difficult to get time off from work.

Do you think that this history would hinder my chances of matching significantly? Would you consider it a "red flag" in other words?

 

[jdh71]

Do you think that this history would hinder my chances of matching significantly? Would you consider it a "red flag" in other words?

In a word: Yes.

Look, two residency programs in three years. Why? To be honest right now you are coming off a bit like a flake. I think you'll get some bites, but you've got to look at this very coldly and logically . . . If I was a PD, I'd be like, "Hmmm, this guy seems ok by scores. Letters aren't bad, one's old. But what's he jumping so much? Will he jump after a year here? If we decide to rank him it will be low"

All other things being equal, your past is concerning.

 

[SimonSez]

In a word: Yes.

Look, two residency programs in three years. Why? To be honest right now you are coming off a bit like a flake. I think you'll get some bites, but you've got to look at this very coldly and logically . . . If I was a PD, I'd be like, "Hmmm, this guy seems ok by scores. Letters aren't bad, one's old. But what's he jumping so much? Will he jump after a year here? If we decide to rank him it will be low"

All other things being equal, your past is concerning.

Yes, I understand what you are saying. I will just have to address it as well as I can during the Interviews.

The system is a lot different in my country than in the states though. We don't really have "residency programs" per se. There are just jobs. You can work in one job for one year or for ten years and still be at the same level. That's why it is a bit frustrating because there is not any sense of upward mobility so to speak. It's more like stagnation than anything else. So it is actually quite common here for people to switch from one working environment to the next. Since I have left Internal Medicine there have been at least eight other doctors who left as well to pursue other options (and that has just been about a year ago). It is a pretty dynamic system in that regard I guess. People are always coming and going.

 

[jdh71]

Yes, I understand what you are saying. I will just have to address it as well as I can during the Interviews.

The system is a lot different in my country than in the states though. We don't really have "residency programs" per se. There are just jobs. You can work in one job for one year or for ten years and still be at the same level. That's why it is a bit frustrating because there is not any sense of upward mobility so to speak. It's more like stagnation than anything else. So it is actually quite common here for people to switch from one working environment to the next. Since I have left Internal Medicine there have been at least eight other doctors who left as well to pursue other options (and that has just been about a year ago). It is a pretty dynamic system in that regard I guess. People are always coming and going.

I think that is yout best strategy to underline that you will not be doing any more jumping around. Were those residencies in your home country or here in the US?

 

[SimonSez]

I think that is yout best strategy to underline that you will not be doing any more jumping around. Were those residencies in your home country or here in the US?

They were in my country. The research that I was involved in the last few months is just about done so I will start to work in Emergency Dept by next week (this is the last place I worked). I don't want to start back working in Int Med because it would be a lot more difficult to get time off to go for interviews. Do you think the fact that I started working again would help?