Should I attend a new MD school interview if I am interested in a competitive residency? (Now that step 1 is P/F)

[deleted1023661]

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Hi, I am interested in neurosurgery, ENT, orthopedic surgery, or plastic surgery. I know I can change my mind, but right now I want to attend a school that will give me the best shot at this. I have not been accepted yet, only waitlisted at 5 places, but am willing to reapply. I have an interview invite at a new unranked school. They opened a few years ago and their match list is typical for a new school (no derm, no neurosurg, ent, plastics, etc.). I would have attended this interview before because I would just focus on killing step 1. But now that it is p/f, I am not sure anymore. I know if I attend and get accepted, then I cannot reapply. That is my dilemma. What should I do?

For context: I have high stats (3.8+, 520+) but mediocre ECs. This past year I have focused on increasing my ECs to become more competitive if I reapply.

 

[KnightDoc]

Hi, I am interested in neurosurgery, ENT, orthopedic surgery, or plastic surgery. I know I can change my mind, but right now I want to attend a school that will give me the best shot at this. I have not been accepted yet, only waitlisted at 5 places, but am willing to reapply. I have an interview invite at a new unranked school. They opened a few years ago and their match list is typical for a new school (no derm, no neurosurg, ent, plastics, etc.). I would have attended this interview before because I would just focus on killing step 1. But now that it is p/f, I am not sure anymore. I know if I attend and get accepted, then I cannot reapply. That is my dilemma. What should I do?

For context: I have high stats (3.8+, 520+) but mediocre ECs. This past year I have focused on increasing my ECs to become more competitive if I reapply.

While nobody really knows what's going to happen, the smart money seems to be on Step 2 replacing Step 1, so there will most likely still be something to focus on killing, although nobody can know for sure at this point. If you absolutely have no interest in attending the new school, and really would rather subject yourself to another cycle than go there, there is no reason to take an interview that could otherwise go to someone who wants it.

On the other hand, you were fine with the possibility of going there before, notwithstanding no previous matches where you want. I'm no expert, but it seems like your chances of a desired match from there were slim to none both before and after Step 1 going P/F. Only you can know whether keeping your dream of a highly competitive match alive is worth turning down a potential bird in the hand this cycle, but you were never going to have a great shot coming out of a school that had never had such a match previously, so I'm not sure this change should alter your decision. If you think killing one test will make or break you coming from this school, there is an excellent chance that you'll still have a test to kill. Good luck!!

 

[candbgirl]

Not every school has those matches every year. It sounds like you were going to attend the interview before the step 1 change. Is that right? If you had been accepted prechange you wouldn’t have been able to reapply , (well you would but it wouldn’t have been wise). So what’s the difference now? If you won’t attend the school don’t waste your time or the schools time. And maybe work on your interview skills.

Sort of off topic- what’s up with all of these WLs this year. It seems like there are more WLs than As at this point.

 

[deleted1023661]

Not every school has those matches every year. It sounds like you were going to attend the interview before the step 1 change. Is that right? If you had been accepted prechange you wouldn’t have been able to reapply , (well you would but it wouldn’t have been wise). So what’s the difference now? If you won’t attend the school don’t waste your time or the schools time. And maybe work on your interview skills.

Sort of off topic- what’s up with all of these WLs this year. It seems like there are more WLs than As at this point.

I guess I'll be more specific. BEfore, I had the mindset that any US MD = chance at comeptitive residency as long as you kill step 1, get publications, and good LORs. It's harder from an unranked school, but not impossible. Step 1 of course was the primary differentiating factor. But now residency directors have no way to differentiate between someone who got a 270 at an unranked school and someone who 194 at a top 20. Before the 194 wouldn't be in a position to apply for a competitive residency, while the 270 would be in a good place. Now, both are just reflected as Ps and now we're comparing their pubs and LORs (which are probably better from top 20s tbh). Also, I am unsure, but I thought step 2 is not required to apply for residency or something like that? If you could enligthen me on the timeline, that'd be cool!

@Goro @LizzyM @gonnif @gyngyn I'd like to hear your thoughts!

 

[imbesrs]

Also, I am unsure, but I thought step 2 is not required to apply for residency or something like that? If you could enligthen me on the timeline, that'd be cool!

you take step2ck before you apply to residency at all md schools. that score is still scored and you are assigned a percentile etc (not P/F). As adcoms mentioned on other threads, they see step2 being used as a numerical metric in place of step1.

 

[Goro]

I guess I'll be more specific. BEfore, I had the mindset that any US MD = chance at comeptitive residency as long as you kill step 1, get publications, and good LORs. It's harder from an unranked school, but not impossible. Step 1 of course was the primary differentiating factor. But now residency directors have no way to differentiate between someone who got a 270 at an unranked school and someone who 194 at a top 20. Before the 194 wouldn't be in a position to apply for a competitive residency, while the 270 would be in a good place. Now, both are just reflected as Ps and now we're comparing their pubs and LORs (which are probably better from top 20s tbh). Also, I am unsure, but I thought step 2 is not required to apply for residency or something like that? If you could enligthen me on the timeline, that'd be cool!

@Goro @LizzyM @gonnif @gyngyn I'd like to hear your thoughts!

PDs are going to use some criteria to select students, and it seems that Step II will be that thing. As long as you have a good clinical education, you should be on an even playing field with other MD students.

The first question you and everyone else should be asking is:
Do I want to be a doctor?

We know the answer to that.

Next question: Do you want to be a doctor even if it means not getting into the specialty you want?

if no, then don't apply.

Next question: Do you want to be a doctor even if it means not getting into the residency site/location you want?

if no, then don't apply.

I strongly believe that the hype that "only students from tops schools will be ranked/interview" is just that, hype. There are only so many students from Top Schools, after all, and not all of them want to go into the uber residencies.

Students will also have a leg up with audition rotations. Known quantities are far better than unknowns. Remember, PDs are looking for people who will be good team members for 3-7 years, not merely those who will pass their specialty exams

This is the vibe I'm getting from our wise PD and resident colleagues.

Now, I can't sugar coat this: You should NOT assume that you will be in the Top 10% of med students who normally break the bank on Step I, or get into the uber-specialties. It's OK to have interests and want to aim high, but hubris doesn't do SDNers much good. Also, as most candidates tend to get only one accept, one might not have a choice as to where you go....although as with many IIs as you had, the odds at least are good for you. Good luck and report back to us at the end of the cycle!

 

[deleted1023661]

you take step2ck before you apply to residency at all md schools. that score is still scored and you are assigned a percentile etc (not P/F). As adcoms mentioned on other threads, they see step2 being used as a numerical metric in place of step1.

How was step 2 viewed before? Because i always read a lot about step 1, but not 2. Was it an important numerical metric for residency?

 

[imbesrs]

How was step 2 viewed before? Because i always read a lot about step 1, but not 2. Was it an important numerical metric for residency?

contrary to popular belief, it was always important but it was overshadowed by the importance of step1 scores. here is just 1 specialty example
where you can see it was still important in interview selection. With the removal of step1 scores, it can only become more important

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Do not turn down an MD acceptance.

 

[Moko]

you take step2ck before you apply to residency at all md schools

One minor correction: while some schools and residency programs may require CK to be taken prior to ERAS applications, most schools and residencies will not require this (though some of this may be specialty-dependent). The only true requirement is that a passing Step II CK and CS score be obtained prior to starting residency.

The conventional wisdom is that if someone did very well on Step I, then they should delay Step II so that their CK score does not result until after their ERAS application is sent to residency programs in September. This way, if they did poorly on CK, they will have the option of not transmitting their CK score until after rank lists are finalized. In contrast, if their score came back prior to the applications being sent, then it will automatically be reported to the residency programs.

For students who did poorly on Step I, they have an opportunity to redeem themselves on Step II. These students will typically have their Step II results prior to ERAS application in order to have a better shot at getting interviews. Also, some programs will not rank an applicant unless their Step II CK +/- CS score(s) are received prior to the rank list deadline in February, but even then, Step II can be taken in December and still meet this deadline.

When Step I becomes P/F, I suspect that most residency programs will not invite an applicant for interview unless their Step II score(s) are received. Logistically, this means that Step II will need to be taken earlier, likely with less dedicated study time as this will occur in the midst of clinical rotations, finishing research projects, keeping on top of LORs, preparing for ERAS application, etc. This new set-up also won't give students a second chance to redeem themselves if they do poorly on Step II. Personally, I think students will be worse off during third year if this becomes the new reality. And eventually, when Step II becomes P/F, expect there to be another hoop to jump through another test that's numerically scored. Just my thoughts

 

[deleted994889]

You've got no acceptances. I wouldn't turn down an interview from any school for any reason.

 

[Pepe18]

.

 

[longhaul3]

Does the med school/university medical center have home departments in those fields? If so, you would be pretty safe coming from that school with a sufficiently strong application. The biggest problem strong applicants have breaking into those specialties is not having a home department.

 

[OrbitalOverload]

Im an MS4 applying for plastic surgery right now - the importance of connections cannot be overstated. Look at where the school matches people - what fields and where they go. School reputation and the relevance of the department of the specialty you are interested in matters a ton. Sometimes can be a make or break.