So I was reading some old threads on LECOMs PBL and it seems that it requires a lot of reading. If your mainly an auditory learner does that automatically strike out PBL? Do visual learners mainly benefit or ppl who learn mostly by reading textbooks? It's not like I can't learn from a book but I've never been one to sit and read everything when I didn't have to. I'm a bit nervous to apply to LECOM because I know med school is hard enough and I don't want to deal with working against my learning style. Any input?
Should I consider PBL?
- Thread starter Mx300
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Wow I never would have thought of it that way. I guess the general feeling that I have seen is that people say it is a time waster and you get MORE material, but not necessarily more board relevant material (you have to pick through minutiae and figure out what is important).
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this is how I felt when I sat in for a PBL session at my LECOM interview. It felt like "why be lectured on what to learn when you can pay a school $30k a year to teach yourself and try and memorize every single factoid whether it's low yield or high yield?" Not to mention, you tell the facilitating professor what you want to be tested on which doesn't jibe well with me. if I'm paying tuition, I would like them to test me on materials they know will be likely on the big exams. I'm partially paying for their expertise on this kinda stuff. just my 0.02
I will say that the facts are that there are many people who do really well with PBL and they are very successful on their boards. no arguing that. but from your initial post you mentioned you are mostly an auditory learner and that gave off the warning bells that PBL might not work for your. I'm auditory too and I am happy to do something other than PBL.
Yeah PBL makes me nervous but I'm hesitant to cut out LECOMs because of the tuition.. If I knew that I would have trouble then I don't care about the money I wouldn't go. It's the unknown that's concerning me. I'm probably not going to apply there. Also I agree with u if PBL is all about self teaching then I want no part of it. I was homeschooled my while life and I know that I hate self teaching.
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Figure ~$500 for travel if you are far away, is this worth spending to know if you like the school and PBL session they show you during the interview?
Despite being a person who likes to learn and read on my own, I decided PBL was not for me after this. BUT, I would have gone if it were my only acceptance.
The positives are that the things you learn on your own, you learn well. LECOM-B has good board scores and they are proud of this. The negatives are the feeling of uncertainty of the quality of what you're learning (how do you know how in depth you need to go), the inefficiency of it when time is a premium and the high dependance on learning from your classmates in a PBL setting.
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Should you consider PBL? I would say yes. You should definitely at least apply. If you get an interview after you've already been accepted elsewhere, it's up to you to decide if you want to attend. However, it may be the only interview/acceptance you receive (You didn't post your stats, so I have no way I knowing), and it may be worth dealing with 2 years of PBL rather than taking a year off -- that depends on you.
First bolded: Like NuttyEngDude said, this might be your only chance, applications can be a wild cycle sometimes.
Second bolded: And this is definitely a thought that goes through everyone's mind. I believe LECOM-B has some sort of required reading per week, but it's up to your PBL session to decide what else to read after that. From what I understand, it's usually pretty obvious what you should read, but it's a bit intimidating thinking you have to decide yourself sometimes what has priority over what. I've heard you go over everything a few times over by the time you finish your last PBL semester, so that's comforting.
My stats are 3.8 cgpa 3.7 sgpa and 27 mcat. Is LECOM-b an easier school to get into? I'm not going to apply to all he DO schools maybe around 15-20 and was thinking of switching out LECOM for some other school. But if it's easier to get into then maybe ill add it.
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I would say it's right around the middle of the pack as far as DO schools are concerned. It's a good school, with very high COMLEX board scores (I believe they're usually top 3 or so the last few years). I think the PBL is what makes people a little weary. 15-20 is a big number of schools, so I would say if you're hesitant about LECOM, there's no need for you to apply if you're going to be applying to 15+ other schools.
Good luck in the cycle!
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Do any of you know which schools are all PBL?
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The only schools that I know of are just the LECOMs. Bradenton and Seton Hill are 100% PBL. Erie has a lecture pathway as well as a independent learning pathway alongside the PBL. LECOM Bradenton has been leading the schools with board schools so that answers the question for me whether PBL works. Yes it is a lot of reading but I would rather do that than sit in a classroom from 9-5 each day and they have to go home and go over powerpoints. I have read lots about PBL and have heard many people say they study during the day and are done around dinner time. I know they are studying hard but if there was a way to learn through medical school that sounds like the right way for me.
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Apparently western is incorporating some PBL-like elements into their curriculum. At least that's how it was described to me by one of the OMS 2 students
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Thanks for the info. A student that ate lunch with us at my ACOM interview said that she interviewed at LECOM when she was applying and said that a LECOM student said if you don't like hauling around a bunch of books and reading all day, don't go to school here (referring to LECOM).
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A few other schools besides LECOM offered PBL as an option when I was interviewing, I think it was Rowan and NYIT.
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I thought my learning style would do well with PBL, but literally every physician/professor mentor I asked said that PBL was a sham. Some gave better answers than others as to why. It would have been a disaster for my fiance, so I decided to not attend that interview. Either way it seems like a big gamble.
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The problem is no one really knows if they are made for it until you try it. Unless you were homeschooled and did a bunch of courses online or something.
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You're all making me really nervous about attending LECOM-B. Can anyone substantiate why PBL should be avoided like the plague ???
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If you are highly self-driven, a good self-learner, a good reader and thrive in a self-discovery type of situation, PBL can be the ideal environment. Many people do not like these aspects (me included), but do not let this stop you if you think you can excel in it. Some folks feel this is more efficient because they spend less time in class and studying because of this. Others feel it is a sink-or-swim high stress situation.
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Seems like PBL can be awesome if it works for you, but a nightmare if not. There's really no way to determine this until you are already in the program unfortunately. I've heard the entire gamut searching the forums, makes me feel pretty uneasy.
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As someone actually in PBL I feel I should chime in.
One thing that is clear is there are some people who simply could not do it. They realized it early and transfered to LDP. The thing is, I am by no means a reader. It takes me forever to read anything, and honestly last year, I was just as nervous as you guys because I didn't know what to expect. As of now, I love PBL and am happy with my decision.
As a physician, you're going to have to study a lot on your own. On top of that, in 3rd and 4th year, if your school makes you take the shelfs, you are going to have to read from big convoluted books on your own with minimal direction. PBL prepares you for that by having you essential do that, albeit with better books, in my opinion.
Before I started, I talked to a lot of people, and the most consistent thing about PBL was that (1) the free time is great, and while you study for hours on end (its still med school) you aren't stuck in a lecture hall and you can organize your time, but (2) your MS1 grades take a hit. Pretty much everyone gets a C on the first test, and even later, a minimum amount of people get As. That said, what you learn, you learn well, and obviously the board scores show the results.
In med school, a lot of what you do is self-driven. You have to be motivated. You just have to ask yourself, if I have to, can I read hundreds (700-800) of pages of med school textbooks in a month? If you can motivate yourself to study for 6+hrs a day, you can accomplish that, and that's coming from someone who hated reading before med school and is still one of the slowest at it.
Unlike popular belief, they don't pick out random minutiae and test you on it. They test clinically relevant or board relevant stuff. You have a set of things everyone learns each block, and then based on the cases, you as a group select sets of readings from all of your textbooks. Its a little awkward at first, but you quickly get used to it, and you see the overlap in textbooks pretty easily. Some people read the whole set of readings 3+ times. It would be impossible for me to do that, so I and about half the other people read it once then review/skim it again the week or so before the exam (if I have that much time). You can also use board review books since most blocks have themes that are repeated in each text reading. Favorites include: FA (obviously), Pathoma, Goljan, Kaplan videos, BRS, etc. A lot of people also like Firecracker.
If you are confused about something, or you aren't sure what to focus on, you can look at review books, or just talk to the professors, who are each responsible for writing exam questions for a designated subject. They are helpful, and since its PBL, they are around in their offices a lot.
It was tough initially to adjust, and sometimes its still tough to stay motivated (because I'm a procrastinator), but I really like reading these books, and I love the material. I also know that I'm learning it better than I honestly learned anything before, probably because I'm actually reading the books.
If you absolutely know you can't motivate yourself to do the work when you aren't lectured at, PBL is probably not for you. If you think you can live with reading lots of books, and can learn that way, at least try your luck with an app/interview, you may end up loving it like I do.
One thing that is clear is there are some people who simply could not do it. They realized it early and transfered to LDP. The thing is, I am by no means a reader. It takes me forever to read anything, and honestly last year, I was just as nervous as you guys because I didn't know what to expect. As of now, I love PBL and am happy with my decision.
As a physician, you're going to have to study a lot on your own. On top of that, in 3rd and 4th year, if your school makes you take the shelfs, you are going to have to read from big convoluted books on your own with minimal direction. PBL prepares you for that by having you essential do that, albeit with better books, in my opinion.
Before I started, I talked to a lot of people, and the most consistent thing about PBL was that (1) the free time is great, and while you study for hours on end (its still med school) you aren't stuck in a lecture hall and you can organize your time, but (2) your MS1 grades take a hit. Pretty much everyone gets a C on the first test, and even later, a minimum amount of people get As. That said, what you learn, you learn well, and obviously the board scores show the results.
In med school, a lot of what you do is self-driven. You have to be motivated. You just have to ask yourself, if I have to, can I read hundreds (700-800) of pages of med school textbooks in a month? If you can motivate yourself to study for 6+hrs a day, you can accomplish that, and that's coming from someone who hated reading before med school and is still one of the slowest at it.
Unlike popular belief, they don't pick out random minutiae and test you on it. They test clinically relevant or board relevant stuff. You have a set of things everyone learns each block, and then based on the cases, you as a group select sets of readings from all of your textbooks. Its a little awkward at first, but you quickly get used to it, and you see the overlap in textbooks pretty easily. Some people read the whole set of readings 3+ times. It would be impossible for me to do that, so I and about half the other people read it once then review/skim it again the week or so before the exam (if I have that much time). You can also use board review books since most blocks have themes that are repeated in each text reading. Favorites include: FA (obviously), Pathoma, Goljan, Kaplan videos, BRS, etc. A lot of people also like Firecracker.
If you are confused about something, or you aren't sure what to focus on, you can look at review books, or just talk to the professors, who are each responsible for writing exam questions for a designated subject. They are helpful, and since its PBL, they are around in their offices a lot.
It was tough initially to adjust, and sometimes its still tough to stay motivated (because I'm a procrastinator), but I really like reading these books, and I love the material. I also know that I'm learning it better than I honestly learned anything before, probably because I'm actually reading the books.
If you absolutely know you can't motivate yourself to do the work when you aren't lectured at, PBL is probably not for you. If you think you can live with reading lots of books, and can learn that way, at least try your luck with an app/interview, you may end up loving it like I do.
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Someone should sticky that post
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Saw this. Loved it. Had to post it. Lol
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Hallowmann really nailed it with their explanation, so I'm just jumping in to support it.
You have to stop listening to people not in PBL. They only have their fears to share, which are not going to help you at all make a well informed decision for yourself.
I'm in PBL and I love it. It was the best decision I could have made, but we all had the same worries you did.
Like everything, PBL is something that you can adjust and get used to, or at least adapt to. It is stressful and that never changes, but the idea of sitting through lectures all day is more frightening to me than anything else.
Sure, you will be reading everything, but the idea of "picking through the minutiae" is an absurd concept. You are going to be a Doctor. Knowing more is never a problem in our field.
You have to stop listening to people not in PBL. They only have their fears to share, which are not going to help you at all make a well informed decision for yourself.
I'm in PBL and I love it. It was the best decision I could have made, but we all had the same worries you did.
Like everything, PBL is something that you can adjust and get used to, or at least adapt to. It is stressful and that never changes, but the idea of sitting through lectures all day is more frightening to me than anything else.
Sure, you will be reading everything, but the idea of "picking through the minutiae" is an absurd concept. You are going to be a Doctor. Knowing more is never a problem in our field.
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Co-sign. I freakin hate lectures. I have always learned better by reading and going to tutors when things confused me.
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I should also add that I was, and still am, a visual learner. PBL hasn't messed with that. Anything you need laid out for you lecture format can be done one on one with your professors.
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16799282/
The link above provides some evidence that pbl is an effective method, but I'm highly skeptical of pbl. I just don't see how it can be better for me, i think the most important thing to consider your learning style.
The link above provides some evidence that pbl is an effective method, but I'm highly skeptical of pbl. I just don't see how it can be better for me, i think the most important thing to consider your learning style.
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It's definitely not for everyone but reading the replies of you and the others in PBL make me very excited to start in Bradenton in a few short months!
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It really just comes down to your style. If PBL fits your learning style, then do PBL. The based on studies I have read, they both pretty much give the same results.
