Should I even bother applying to formal post-baccs?

[Trismegistus4]

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Let me quote a description of myself from a thread I started back in January that didn't get many responses:

• 27 year old white male
• Software developer at a big pharma company
• Graduate of a well-respected small liberal arts college with a B.A. in Music
• 3.1 undergrad GPA
• Only relevant college science coursework: Gen Chem I, C-; Gen Chem II, B+
• A few other scattered bad grades, including an F in multivariable calculus
• 2 extracurricular activities in college: Chapel Choir and band
• No post-college "extracurricular activities" (i.e., community clubs)
• No community service volunteering
• No medically related volunteering or shadowing experiences YET (just requested a volunteer application from the local community hospital, but haven't received it yet)

The only difference between then and now is that I have been putting in a few hours a week volunteering at a local community hospital ER since July.

I've been thinking for the past few months that I'd apply to post-baccs over the winter, in time to start next summer or fall. Reading the posts on these forums, though, I wonder whether I'd be wasting my time and application fees. It seems like everyone who gets into these programs has a near-4.0 GPA, very noteworthy work experience, an outstanding philanthropic record (like being in the Peace Corps), a sob story to excuse their past bad grades, academic research experience, significant health-care related experience, or some combination of the above. I'm confident that I could handle the work, but I don't have much to make me look good on paper: my GPA is "only" 3.1, I haven't exactly been spending the years since college out saving the world by founding my own orphanages and AIDS hospices, my parents didn't die leaving me to raise my younger siblings by myself, I don't have an MPH or my name on any published papers...

I'm in Philly and it would be nice to stay here, though obviously, if that's not possible, I'll do what it takes to become a doctor. So, I've been thinking about Penn, Drexel, Temple, maybe Bryn Mawr--the last being a very long shot, I suppose. Is it worth applying to Bryn Mawr? They say their GPA cutoff is 3.0, but people in other threads have made it sound like you already have to be a Nobel winner to get in. I know Harvard Extension is open enrollment, even if you have to do well enough once you're there to qualify for their sponsorship, but that would be a last resort for me because of the cost of living in Boston.

Am I complaining too much, or do my impressions sound accurate? It just sounds like everyone around here is either coming from a background where they have work experience in another health care field, and thus are perceived as being "on the inside" already, or have really stellar academic and personal qualifications. Do any people like me get into formal post-baccs, or should I forget it and start taking the classes a la carte?

 

[Pemulis]

I think you'd have a very good chance at Penn, Temple, and Drexel, and those are all fine programs (especially the first two). As for Bryn Mawr, it's true that they tend to look for the over 3.5 crowd, but I know of at least two people who've gotten in there with around a 3.0. And don't sell yourself short; you have "real world" experience as a programmer, an artistic background, a good alma mater, and now about six months of volunteer experience at an ER--which is a lot more than many people who get into the top programs. So, I would say that its true, you are something of a long shot at Bryn Mawr, but with a good essay packaging your experiences well, you might stand a real chance. Besides, what could you lose by applying? It's only $50. Not to sound callous about that, but if you're going to be a doctor, you'll probably spend upwards of 150,000 on your education; 50 bucks is spit in the ocean to make sure that you'll never say to yourself someday "what if?..."

Good luck. It sounds to me like you have some decent options.

 

[Sundarban1]

It seems like everyone who gets into these programs has a near-4.0 GPA

Not true. Most people applying to post-baccs are looking to improve GPA. Except the few top schools, in which case yes...waste of your time.

Don't let the competition scare you. What is stopping you from doing the classes on your own? Harvard would be good, just look for a roommate, thats what I will be doing when I apply and if I get accecpted. Make it work!

 

[sidewalkman]

Geez, Trismegistus4, do not sell yourself short. Your GPA is over 3.0, you have a rare arts degree, you have the work experience in pharma (play that up!), and you have some volunteer experience. Throw in a good essay, and you're pretty competitive. I feel you are practically a lock for Drexel and Temple (I got into Temple 2nd degree with a GPA considerably under 3.0.) Do not forget, this site attracts a lot of gunners and academic superstars and really isn't representative of the population as a whole. You are also more likely than not to get into Penn. Penn is pretty good about being frank with your application; if you bring them your transcripts and resume, they'll give you an opinion on the spot. You can also start your post-bacc in the summer and not pay a ton for the courses, which is a real plus. Bryn Mawr will be tough, but it's still possible. I didn't like the program because of the $$$. If you like the program, though, apply - isn't it worth $50 to know for the rest of your life whether you could have gotten in?

As for Boston, definately get a roommate, and do not live immediately around Harvard if you can help it. This is what I will be doing when I start the program. If you do this, rents per person are actually comparable to Philly. If you want your own place, though, Philly rents are considerably less than Boston. IMO you have above a 50% chance of getting into the formal Harvard program. Yes, you can just sign up for the classes, but I feel it's worth being in the program for the convenience of having the Harvard ID and the letter service (if you need it).

In summary, I am bullish on your application. Good luck.

 

[Sundarban1]

I feel it's worth being in the program for the convenience of having the Harvard ID

I thought I read a post by someone who said you do not get an ID if your a post-bacc student at Harvard. I think she said she got one for the summer, but not during the full semester...can anyone clarify??

 

[sidewalkman]

Sundarban1, I remember that post as well. From my knowledge, here's how it works. All summer school students get ID cards, even if you're not enrolled in any formal program. A friend of mine enrolled in one summer course a few years back, while enrolled in a different school for undergrad, and got her photo ID. If you're enrolled for the fall/spring term, and you're part of any degree or certificate program, including the premed program, you get a Harvard ID. If you're just signing up for classes a la carte during the fall/spring, then you do not get a Harvard ID. Here's a section of the HES site

All Extension School students can use Grossman Library, a reserve reading and study library in Sever Hall. Stacks access in other libraries may be available. Degree and certificate candidates who register for courses receive Harvard Extension School photo ID cards. These cards provide borrowing privileges at many Harvard University libraries.

If you don't have an ID, you have to carry your registration printout everywhere and sign in and out, which can get annoying. You also get an Email address in the certificate program. That's why I think it's worth the $100, but that's just me.

 

[ockhamsRzr]

I'm starting Harvard HCP this summer (genchem). The ID thing works like this: you have to tote around your receipt if you are in the HCP program but not the "diploma program". HCP gets you the letter service, advising and sponsorship but not an ID, except for the summer session. If you enroll in the diploma program (taking all 8 pre-reqs, having never taken them before) then you get the ID and all the other benefits. While the diploma is useless, the ID and full student benefits are not.

Sidewalk, when are you starting at Harvard?

-OckhamsRzr

 

[sidewalkman]

With any luck, I will be starting in the spring. It all depends upon my loan status. Could be taking classes in the summer as well - there are a lot of factors going into my situation.

 

[ockhamsRzr]

With any luck, I will be starting in the spring. It all depends upon my loan status. Could be taking classes in the summer as well - there are a lot of factors going into my situation.

Ya I dig...me too. I'm finishing (graduating) at Umass Boston this spring and will begin my HCP this summer. I weighed staying at Umass versus Harvard but ultimately I think doing well at Harvard will stand me in better stead than doing my pre-reqs at UMB. Also I'm hoping that the community of post-bacc'ers will provide a level of shared goals that Umass undergrads can't. I'll end up with a degree in PoliSci and (hopefully) a 3.5+ gpa. From there it's all science all the time with the MCATs in April of 2006...hoping to be an applicant for the 2006 season!

If you need any suggestions for where to live in Boston feel free to PM.

OckhamRzr

 

[Sundarban1]

Sundarban1, I remember that post as well. From my knowledge, here's how it works. All summer school students get ID cards, even if you're not enrolled in any formal program. A friend of mine enrolled in one summer course a few years back, while enrolled in a different school for undergrad, and got her photo ID. If you're enrolled for the fall/spring term, and you're part of any degree or certificate program, including the premed program, you get a Harvard ID. If you're just signing up for classes a la carte during the fall/spring, then you do not get a Harvard ID. Here's a section of the HES site


If you don't have an ID, you have to carry your registration printout everywhere and sign in and out, which can get annoying. You also get an Email address in the certificate program. That's why I think it's worth the $100, but that's just me.

Thanks! I'm hoping to start in Fall 05' because I am finishing my Master's degree and want to work the summer to earn some extra $$. Has anyone visited the campus or know if you are allowed to "sit on" on classes before chosing to enroll? For some of us will be making considerable life alterations and coming from other states to attend the program, is there a way to see what the environment is like beforehand?

 

[scooter31]

Thanks! I'm hoping to start in Fall 05' because I am finishing my Master's degree and want to work the summer to earn some extra $$. Has anyone visited the campus or know if you are allowed to "sit on" on classes before chosing to enroll? For some of us will be making considerable life alterations and coming from other states to attend the program, is there a way to see what the environment is like beforehand?

Most of the HES classes are in the science center, which has 3 big auditoriums, so you could easily come in and sit in on a lecture (BIo, OCHEM, GCHEM, etc). The smaller classes (Epi, Genetics, etc), may not be the case...

Another thing about the HES program. You are limited to access to only a few libraries in the program if I remember-- the Health Sciences, the one in Sever Hall, and maybe Widener (current folks correct me if I'm wrong-- I avoided the library like an ugly one night stand the next day).

Otherwise, youre free to roam the grounds. Though looking back, you'll have your ass firmly achored to a couple of seats in the Science center, and wont want/need to go further than that. Good luck all of you current and hopeful HES'ers. 👍

 

[scooter31]

Tri-

Maybe have a long hard look at the Drexel programs--- they seem to be more forgiving of low GPA's compared to the other Philly programs.

 

[macsx]

Post-bacc = redemption

I graduated with a economics degree, did some computer programming for a year, and then got into medicine. Not a single minute of health care experience. Oh wait, I take that back- I watched ER now and then on TV. And by all accounts, my undergraduate experiences were unimpressive.

I didn't apply to a formal post-bach program, I did it a la carte. I took all the pre-med requirements and some advanced bio classes, volunteered at a hospital, got a research job, and guess what?

I got into medical school.

I don't see the point of going to a formal post-bach program. I think as long as you get the classes done with all As and a B or two, rock the MCAT, get some good experience in, you'll be fine. But then again, I didn't end up at Havard or John Hopkins. I'm just going to an in-state med school.

I met another guy who is like us, English major and had a low GPA. The med school he applied to wanted him to take several high level bio classes at the same time to "prove" that his low undergraduate GPA was not characteristic of his academic work and that he could handle science.

But really, you should talk to the pre-med advisor and call up a few med schools you will be applying to to get their impression before you take the plunge, once you decide to do this, it's all or nothing. And if half way through your post-bacc, you come to realize that medicine isn't for you, don't think that you can't quit. Better to quit after the first year or semester than to realize that you shouldn't be in this field when after you've gone through the hellish trinity that is known as the MCAT, AMCAS, and med school interviews.

I think computer programmers, engineers, etc. have a better chance because what they do is science/math based.

 

[lightnk102]

hey Tri.

I was a computer science major as an undergrad (and a biology major) and was in the same situation as you (3.16 gpa). the only difference is that i had already taken a lot of the premed requirements so i went into a "special master's program" (pretty much, a post-bacc where you take advanced science classes to help your GPA).

i didn't have any problems getting into post-baccs. i applied to penn's, bu's, and american university's (i can't speak for bryn mawr). just for reference, at the time of application, i'd been working at a technology consulting firm for 2 years, so i didn't have any volunteering, any hospital experience, any community service, etc. for my essays, i drew upon experiences i'd had in undergrad and in high school. so your recent experience in a hospital should be more than enough!

most post-bacc's are looking for you to show dedication to thefield of medicine and that you're well rounded. i'd say the hardest part is convincing the adcoms that you're serious about this "change of heart/career" and that it's not just some whim you decided on. that's where the volunteering at hospitals comes in (you've spoken to doctors and researched the new career by being in a hospital environment and deciding that you like it, as opposed to waking up one day and deciding "i want to be a doctor" based on watching ER).

i think personal statements count for a lot, and the only purpose of extracurriculars and volunteer experience is to prove to the adcoms that you want this. less of "tell me", and more of "show me".

i think you can benefit a lot from a standardized post-bacc as opposed to a do-it-yourself. many of them offer advising for MCAT-timing and will also help you with medical school applications, choosing a list of schools to apply to, how to ask for recommendations, interviewing skills (mock interviews), etc.