Should I even bother completing secondary if my VR score is below their minimum?

premedmind

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For example,

According to the 2008-2009 MSAR, the minimum VR score of Tufts University School of Medicine is a 6 (where the shaded bar extended left-most). I got a 5 in VR.

Should I even bother filling out their secondary? I'm thinking the obvious answer is no...
 

BlueElmo

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Can you get into any MD school with a 5 in VR? Just curious.
 
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premedmind

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Guys, that's not what I am asking. I just want to know if those schools whose MINIMUM VR score is 6, for example (according to the MSAR book) if they will even consider your application if you have a 5 in VR.
 

dru2002

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Forgive me if my understanding of statistics is flawed... So basically 10th percentile means that the lowest 10 percent of the class had a mean of x, right? So the 1st percentile would undoubtedly be below that? So you would basically be hoping that you fall within that 1st-2nd percentile. Unless you have something truly amazing in your app package (Medal of Honor, multiple publications, Peace Corps) I think your chances are next to none. You would basically be donating to Tufts. If money isn't an issue you could go for it. But otherwise I would just hold off for a year study for the MCAT and apply next year. Hope I didn't ramble too much. Good luck.
 

red10

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Guys, that's not what I am asking. I just want to know if those schools whose MINIMUM VR score is 6, for example (according to the MSAR book) if they will even consider your application if you have a 5 in VR.
I think you can figure this out yourself. look up what MINIMUM means if you need clarification.

I honestly don't think there are many US schools who would like seeing a 5 even if they have no posted minimum
 

dru2002

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Guys, that's not what I am asking. I just want to know if those schools whose MINIMUM VR score is 6, for example (according to the MSAR book) if they will even consider your application if you have a 5 in VR.
You already know the answer.
 
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If you walk up to a line for a ride at an amusement park and the sign says you have to be 5' tall to ride it, and you're 4'6" do you wait in line anyway?
 

zayka

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I don't think that there's a big difference between a score of 5 and 6, but why don't you retake the MCAT?
 
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premedmind

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I don't think that there's a big difference between a score of 5 and 6, but why don't you retake the MCAT?
Because I would have to take it in September....is that not sort of late anyway?

To be honest, I don't know how much better I can do. I know a lot of people who see such a low score think that he or she just didn't study enough....but that wasn't the case at all for me. Not sure how much I can improve, not to mention possibly doing worse.
 

RogueUnicorn

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better late than the never you're facing at the moment
 
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I would think that'd you be able to improve quite a bit. Is English not your native language?
 
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premedmind

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I would think that'd you be able to improve quite a bit. Is English not your native language?
It is my native language...hence my Q on the WS. Verbal is the hardest to improve...I don't know what to do, really. If I was to take it again I would predict maybe a 6 or 7.
 
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it seems you might be trying to avoid it but you have got to retake the MCAT... No MD school will look at you with a 5. I am not sure about DO but i know your chances are going to be very slim. Retake in septemeber and read everything you can get your hands on! READ READ READ! then get lucky haha. Good luck
 

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A 5 in verbal is going to shoot you down at a lot of schools whether they post their minimums or not. I'd take this as a sign saying "don't waste the $100".

If you submit your secondary, they'll probably cash your check but a computer will reject you before anyone even looks at your application due to the posted minimum.

Just be glad they posted theirs. I have a feeling there are other schools that operate with similar cut-offs but they aren't published.
 

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98% that you wont get in anywhere with a 5. Study hard and retake, I'm sure youll improve it. GL:thumbup:

Maybe you need a change of tactics for the verbal, what ever strategy you are using, try a different philosophy. Forexample, kaplan way didnt work for me, I was more successful using the Examkrakers. Give it a try.
 
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premedmind

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A 5 in verbal is going to shoot you down at a lot of schools whether they post their minimums or not. I'd take this as a sign saying "don't waste the $100".

If you submit your secondary, they'll probably cash your check but a computer will reject you before anyone even looks at your application due to the posted minimum.

Just be glad they posted theirs. I have a feeling there are other schools that operate with similar cut-offs but they aren't published.
Well I assumed the cutoff was listed in the MSAR book, as it is for every school....would I be wrong?

What would you guys suggest for me in the meantime? I don't think a month and some change is going to be enough to improve significantly to retake in September, meanwhile I have all the secondaries in my email.

At this point, I know I am probably going to a DO school. But I still applied to all these MD schools for some reason. Ugh.
 

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Well I assumed the cutoff was listed in the MSAR book, as it is for every school....would I be wrong?

What would you guys suggest for me in the meantime? I don't think a month and some change is going to be enough to improve significantly to retake in September, meanwhile I have all the secondaries in my email.

At this point, I know I am probably going to a DO school. But I still applied to all these MD schools for some reason. Ugh.
I honestly don't know... It might not be a written rule everywhere, so some places may give you a formal read-through. I suspect that a 5 in Verbal will be the fatal flaw in your app at most schools.

My advice for now is to retake the MCAT. Study hard and focus on your weaknesses. Yes people do get in with 5s but you're going to be fighting such an uphill battle that you will be wasting a lot of money. I wouldn't submit secondaries until you have a higher verbal score.
 

BlueElmo

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Bust out that EK Verbal 101 and work on them. Do as many passages as you can between now and the test date. You want to bring that score up as much as possible.
 

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For example,

According to the 2008-2009 MSAR, the minimum VR score of Tufts University School of Medicine is a 6 (where the shaded bar extended left-most). I got a 5 in VR.

Should I even bother filling out their secondary? I'm thinking the obvious answer is no...
No. Save your money.
 

Optimus123

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They never provide the very bottom score. Rather, they provide scores from the 10th percentile to the 90th percentile. Schools seem fairly secretive regarding information about the actualy score range. However, I interviewed somewhere where they give the actual range, and I think you did see 5 and 6 and such in some cases.

The probability is low, but why not give it a shot? Is there anything that makes you stand out that may compensate for the low verbal score?
 
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premedmind

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Hmm....my GPA is 3.74.....PS is very compelling....I guess the only thing wrong with my application is the low VR score.
 

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Hmm....my GPA is 3.74.....PS is very compelling....I guess the only thing wrong with my application is the low VR score.
It might be a deal breaker at many schools. There's a lot of reading in med school and beyond. You should plan on retaking the MCAT.
 

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Personally, I wouldn't bother applying with a 5 in one of the MCAT sections. I probably wouldn't even apply DO unless the other sections were ridiculously high. That's going to tank your app, as others have said. I'd go ahead and retake in September. Having a late app with a passable VR score is better than having an early app with that 5.
 

BlueElmo

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Personally, I wouldn't bother applying with a 5 in one of the MCAT sections. I probably wouldn't even apply DO unless the other sections were ridiculously high. That's going to tank your app, as others have said. I'd go ahead and retake in September. Having a late app with a passable VR score is better than having an early app with that 5.
Right. And by now, it wouldn't even be early.
 

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Hmm....my GPA is 3.74.....PS is very compelling....I guess the only thing wrong with my application is the low VR score.
Not so fast. Be aware that everyone thinks their PS is compelling, just like everyone thinks they have "stellar ECs with tons of shadowing and research." The data of applicants would say otherwise. We are our least trustworthy evaluators of our own accomplishments.
 

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Hmm....my GPA is 3.74.....PS is very compelling....I guess the only thing wrong with my application is the low VR score.
What is your total MCAT breakdown, just out of curiosity?

Yes, your GPA might be a strength. I'm assuming you've got the standard fare of ECs. The problem is, unless you get past the initial number screenings, your ECs and essays will not be seen.
 
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premedmind

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I've already applied. And as far as I know there is no way to withdraw your application after verification? Even without a refund? I find that odd...

The problem I am facing now is whether to spend the time and money to do secondaries.

MCAT was 5VR, 9PS, 10BS, 24Q (I know the MCAT is nowhere near competitive...no need to tell me that). Like I said, should I even bother doing secondaries....people seem to be giving me mixed opinions.

And to the don't bother applying even DO with this MCAT comment....there are a few schools who's average MCAT is 24...and there are quite a few people getting interviews with a 5...but I could be wrong.
 

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I'd do the secondaries for your state schools, but that's about it. Maybe shoot out a few DO apps after calling the offices to ask what their cut-offs are, if any. It's certainly possible you could get a look at DO schools, but I think MD is a no-go with a 5 in any section.
 

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I'd do the secondaries for your state schools, but that's about it. Maybe shoot out a few DO apps after calling the offices to ask what their cut-offs are, if any. It's certainly possible you could get a look at DO schools, but I think MD is a no-go with a 5 in any section.
I'm of the same opinion, especially if English is your first language.
 

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I've already applied. And as far as I know there is no way to withdraw your application after verification? Even without a refund? I find that odd...

The problem I am facing now is whether to spend the time and money to do secondaries.

MCAT was 5VR, 9PS, 10BS, 24Q (I know the MCAT is nowhere near competitive...no need to tell me that). Like I said, should I even bother doing secondaries....people seem to be giving me mixed opinions.

And to the don't bother applying even DO with this MCAT comment....there are a few schools who's average MCAT is 24...and there are quite a few people getting interviews with a 5...but I could be wrong.

I have very similar stats:
10 PS 6VR 10BS 3.52 sGPA 3.55 cGPA

Here is what I am doing
1. I retook the MCAT last Thursday (hopefully I did better but lets say I get a 6 again)
2. With a 6 there is no way from what I can see that an MD school will let me in.
3. But, it seems with DO schools it is a different story in certain cases, check out this thread for average MCAT scores...
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=598056&highlight=average+gpa

As you can see some school have lower averages than a 24 and I have been told that DO schools as a whole are more forgiving if you screw up one section.

The real question is what are you getting on practice tests?
I got alot of 8 and 9s on practices and dropped big on test day (hence why I retook).
 

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I've already applied. And as far as I know there is no way to withdraw your application after verification? Even without a refund? I find that odd...

The problem I am facing now is whether to spend the time and money to do secondaries.

MCAT was 5VR, 9PS, 10BS, 24Q (I know the MCAT is nowhere near competitive...no need to tell me that). Like I said, should I even bother doing secondaries....people seem to be giving me mixed opinions.

And to the don't bother applying even DO with this MCAT comment....there are a few schools who's average MCAT is 24...and there are quite a few people getting interviews with a 5...but I could be wrong.
If you do not complete your application, you effectively have withdrawn from the school. Alternatively, you may e-mail the schools individually and let them know you withdraw your application.


The other sections of your MCAT aren't bad, but they don't overcome a low verbal. Again, I'm going to say your best course of action would be to retake the MCAT to pull up your verbal score. This would allow you to consider completing the MD secondaries in the future and make you a stronger DO candidate.

You've identified a weakness in your application why not do what you can to fix it instead of trying to accommodate it?
 
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premedmind

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I was averaging around a 6.5 on VR on practice tests.....usually I would get 6 or 7's....and it would stay pretty consistent. Never got lower than a 5 though. 5 was my lowest.

Just curious....if I was to retake my MCAT in September...would I still have to reapply for next year or would they wait for my new scores? Meaning I could finish the secondaries now and have them wait for the September MCAT?
 

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I was averaging around a 6.5 on VR on practice tests.....usually I would get 6 or 7's....and it would stay pretty consistent. Never got lower than a 5 though. 5 was my lowest.

Just curious....if I was to retake my MCAT in September...would I still have to reapply for next year or would they wait for my new scores? Meaning I could finish the secondaries now and have them wait for the September MCAT?
If you waited for your new scores and then completed your secondaries, they would see the composite picture. If you submit now, make sure there is some sort of "MCAT pending" box you can check b/c you don't want them making a decision without those scores.

I'd at least do this for any MD apps. You might submit the DO apps earlier and just let them know that Sept MCAT scores are coming.
 

Optimus123

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Hmm....my GPA is 3.74.....PS is very compelling....I guess the only thing wrong with my application is the low VR score.
I was referring to "LOR from Obama" and the like, really special things about you that differentiate you from others. Your scores are weak, but have you done anything cool/special? 3.74 doesn't make you stand out.
 

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I was averaging around a 6.5 on VR on practice tests.....usually I would get 6 or 7's....and it would stay pretty consistent. Never got lower than a 5 though. 5 was my lowest.

Just curious....if I was to retake my MCAT in September...would I still have to reapply for next year or would they wait for my new scores? Meaning I could finish the secondaries now and have them wait for the September MCAT?
They could wait for your new scores but you want to get at least a 9 on the VR the second time around to have a decent shot.
 
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Reading outside material seems to be the biggest help in raising VR. That and sleep. Check the 30+ thread for tips on how to strategically map and highlight (I prefer highlighting).

But you won't be doing yourself any favors if you submit and get rejected. You can complete some secondaries and tell the schools you have another test coming. This is an investment in your future. If you grind it out for a month it can make a big difference. The MCAT ~$200.....wasted application cycle >>$200

Good luck whatever you decide!
 
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Why are you even considering Tufts? With that mcat score, you need to be more realistic and aim for the lower tier schools.
 

TopSecret

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Why are you even considering Tufts? With that mcat score, you need to be more realistic and aim for the lower tier schools.
No profile at mdapps with an MCAT of less than 24 was accepted at Tufts. It looks like the lowest MCAT they took was a 26.
 

scg

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I am also hoping for a DO acceptance...as it seems like that's where I will be heading anyway.

has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
 

BlueElmo

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has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
What?! I've read this 10 times and it makes no sense whatsoever.
 

Charles English

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What?! I've read this 10 times and it makes no sense whatsoever.

i stopped after four reads. it's like saying, " the point I found that with Microblue so its time playing various lists it’s just not possible"


well, even that seems more understandable and i just cut and pasted random word strings from different blog sites!!
 
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premedmind

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Would it make a difference if I took the MCAT again and got a 6 or 7 on the verbal? Honestly that is what I would probably get if I was to retake.
 

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Would it make a difference if I took the MCAT again and got a 6 or 7 on the verbal? Honestly that is what I would probably get if I was to retake.

I would shoot for higher than a 6 or 7. Have you thought about tutoring or a MCAT prep class. I know the MCAT sucks but 2-3 points could determine the rest of your career. IMO
 
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premedmind

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I would shoot for higher than a 6 or 7. Have you thought about tutoring or a MCAT prep class. I know the MCAT sucks but 2-3 points could determine the rest of your career. IMO
That's the thing. People see my scores and kind of assume I didn't study enough. So the phrase "study your butt off and retake" is used ubiquitously.

I've studied nearly a year for this test, a month of 8-10 hour days hardcore studying, with a Kaplan class.

Not sure if it means anything but the scores on my AAMCs and real MCAT were actually lower than my Kaplan diagnostic, even after all the studying.
 

Poliscidoc

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That's the thing. People see my scores and kind of assume I didn't study enough. So the phrase "study your butt off and retake" is used ubiquitously.

I've studied nearly a year for this test, a month of 8-10 hour days hardcore studying, with a Kaplan class.

Not sure if it means anything but the scores on my AAMCs and real MCAT were actually lower than my Kaplan diagnostic, even after all the studying.

Well I guess its up to you. I mean you could retake and if you get a better score you could "maybe" get in.. Depending on what your GPA and MCAT is I would compare them to this chart and take your chances.

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm
 
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I agree with the other posters. You should aim for higher than a 6 or 7. As for applying at the school with the "minimum" in MSAR, just call the school and ask for a clarification. If you really like the school, go for it. At the same time, prepare to take the MCAT again, just in case things don't work out.