Should I Fell Bad!

[moolman]

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haha... I don't know where all this chauvinistic crap comes in from my view. I didn't know putting your kids as a top priority was considered chauvinistic, it's a sad world when someone is considered chauvinisitic because he says that he would put his kids as a top priority no matter what.

hey, I understand what you mean, your mom came here to make a better life and things turned out better because you got to come to the US, I'm in the same boat, I'm a immigrant that came to the US for a better life, so I can relate.

My whole point from the beginning is that people should not fool themselves into thinking that being away from their young kids is justified in anyway. Am I telling the OP to not go to pharmacy school? No way, she should attend and make a better life for them in the future. But don't fool yourself into thinking that it's okay to leave your children no matter what the justification because there is none. You should have guilt for having to leave but you still do it because you gotta do what you gotta do but don't make lame excuses to make yourself feel better. Simple.

Having kids doesn't mean you have to put off your dreams but unfortunately, sometimes you may have to put them on the back burner because of them. It's what good parents do, if you can't understand that I really can't explain it any further than that.

As for my wife, I treat her with respect and love. I'm not a chauvinistic just because I put my kids first. I do all the housework in my family, my wife hasn't done the laundry in years haha... My wife has her pharmD already and is a working pharmacist. Once I graduate with my pharmD, she'll quit and raise the kids full time because she wants to. She finds fulfillment in life in our kids not from being a pharmacist.

Yeah, we can both work full time, bring in a lot of money, dump our kids off at daycare and we can give them all the material possessions that they can ever want. But we rather bring down our standard of living and make sure our kids come first.

Anyway, no need to argue about anything, you see my point and I see yours and please don't accuse people of being chauvinistic just because they disagree with you...

Moolman, I guess, my biggest problem with your overall hypothesis is that to your putting your kids first and going to pharmacy school are mutually exclusive, to me, they are not simply complementary but rather essentially synonymous.

If you are taking about my specific case, I do believe it is for the better than my mom left me. Although I've experienced more extreme difficulties than majority of my peers - I starved and was even homeless for a short period of time - I believe the end result - me graduating college here and pursuing a Pharm. D far exceeds anything I could have accomplished back there if my mom had stayed with me.

I can sort of see what medicalcpa says about envying your wife.Your perception of this issue seems so traditional and borderline chauvinistic. I wonder how in the world is she ever going to pursue her dreams if, god forbids, she gets pregnant before getting accepted to grad school. I guess, living in San Francisco for 1/3 of my life, I've become very liberal and accepting in my views. The fact that to you "putting your kids first" somehow equates giving up all personal dreams and hopes even if they are for the betterment of your children's lives not only strikes me as odd but almost seems like a foreign concept.

So far you haven't offered any technical solutions but used a lot of big fancy words.

I just hope I do not come off harsh, I have nothing personal against you and in fact wish you lots of luck in your career and future accomplishments, I just have such a hard time wrapping my brain about what you are saying.

 

[OleMiss2012]

I like your thoughts moolman. 👍👍👍

haha... I don't know where all this chauvinistic crap comes in from my view. I didn't know putting your kids as a top priority was considered chauvinistic, it's a sad world when someone is considered chauvinisitic because he says that he would put his kids as a top priority no matter what.

hey, I understand what you mean, your mom came here to make a better life and things turned out better because you got to come to the US, I'm in the same boat, I'm a immigrant that came to the US for a better life, so I can relate.

My whole point from the beginning is that people should not fool themselves into thinking that being away from their young kids is justified in anyway. Am I telling the OP to not go to pharmacy school? No way, she should attend and make a better life for them in the future. But don't fool yourself into thinking that it's okay to leave your children no matter what the justification because there is none. You should have guilt for having to leave but you still do it because you gotta do what you gotta do but don't make lame excuses to make yourself feel better. Simple.

Having kids doesn't mean you have to put off your dreams but unfortunately, sometimes you may have to put them on the back burner because of them. It's what good parents do, if you can't understand that I really can't explain it any further than that.

As for my wife, I treat her with respect and love. I'm not a chauvinistic just because I put my kids first. I do all the housework in my family, my wife hasn't done the laundry in years haha... My wife has her pharmD already and is a working pharmacist. Once I graduate with my pharmD, she'll quit and raise the kids full time because she wants to. She finds fulfillment in life in our kids not from being a pharmacist.

Yeah, we can both work full time, bring in a lot of money, dump our kids off at daycare and we can give them all the material possessions that they can ever want. But we rather bring down our standard of living and make sure our kids come first.

Anyway, no need to argue about anything, you see my point and I see yours and please don't accuse people of being chauvinistic just because they disagree with you...

 

[naseuy]

haha... I don't know where all this chauvinistic crap comes in from my view. I didn't know putting your kids as a top priority was considered chauvinistic, it's a sad world when someone is considered chauvinisitic because he says that he would put his kids as a top priority no matter what.

hey, I understand what you mean, your mom came here to make a better life and things turned out better because you got to come to the US, I'm in the same boat, I'm a immigrant that came to the US for a better life, so I can relate.

My whole point from the beginning is that people should not fool themselves into thinking that being away from their young kids is justified in anyway. Am I telling the OP to not go to pharmacy school? No way, she should attend and make a better life for them in the future. But don't fool yourself into thinking that it's okay to leave your children no matter what the justification because there is none. You should have guilt for having to leave but you still do it because you gotta do what you gotta do but don't make lame excuses to make yourself feel better. Simple.

Having kids doesn't mean you have to put off your dreams but unfortunately, sometimes you may have to put them on the back burner because of them. It's what good parents do, if you can't understand that I really can't explain it any further than that.

As for my wife, I treat her with respect and love. I'm not a chauvinistic just because I put my kids first. I do all the housework in my family, my wife hasn't done the laundry in years haha... My wife has her pharmD already and is a working pharmacist. Once I graduate with my pharmD, she'll quit and raise the kids full time because she wants to. She finds fulfillment in life in our kids not from being a pharmacist.

Yeah, we can both work full time, bring in a lot of money, dump our kids off at daycare and we can give them all the material possessions that they can ever want. But we rather bring down our standard of living and make sure our kids come first.

Anyway, no need to argue about anything, you see my point and I see yours and please don't accuse people of being chauvinistic just because they disagree with you...

It's great that you have a definite view of how a family should be structured, but in reality, effective and loving families come in many shapes and forms. I find it a little silly how you're making assumptions about someone else's family. You do not know their circumstances, and you do not know whether they have the income of a working pharmacist in the OP's household. It is easy for someone to say that you should stay home with your children, but sometimes circumstances just do not allow it.

Your posts are quite infuriating. You seem to draw the conclusion that the OP is leaving and abandoning her children for selfish reasons. I do not believe that to be the case.

Furthermore, the OP's spouse is still there, and the children will be taken care of. I don't understand your outrage.

 

[moolman]

It's funny because I'm not outraged, my whole point again is that you should feel guilty and don't try to justify it. Accept it, still attend pharmacy school and make a better life for your family. It's just lame to justify in any way shape or form that leaving your children is okay. I never said to quit school and not go to pharmacy school. Many people are reading into my comments way more than what I'm saying because of their biases. All of a sudden, I'm chauvinistic and I said that the OP was abandoning her children. I never said any of those things. I just told the OP that she should feel guilt, accept it, and don't make lame excuses. I'm a broken record but again, people will do what they have to do to live their lives.

And to add, did I ever say that there's only one structure for an effective and loving family, No, I never did, again you are reading in your own biases. And once again, I never said she should stay home or quit school.

Just stating to accept the guilt because that's what the OP put in the title of this whole thread. Should she feel guilty? The answer is yes. Never did I say to quit school or stay at home with the kids. Just don't make lame excuses when you put yourself over your children and try to justify it with a million reasons because there are a million reasons.

Anyway, this thread has been enjoyable, lets just agree to disagree. 🙂

I leave you with a final thought, would you rather have your parents believe what I believe or the opposite of what I believe. Sad part is that the majority think of my beliefs as radical, crazy, chauvinistic, closed minded or whatever... haha...

It's great that you have a definite view of how a family should be structured, but in reality, effective and loving families come in many shapes and forms. I find it a little silly how you're making assumptions about someone else's family. You do not know their circumstances, and you do not know whether they have the income of a working pharmacist in the OP's household. It is easy for someone to say that you should stay home with your children, but sometimes circumstances just do not allow it.

Your posts are quite infuriating. You seem to draw the conclusion that the OP is leaving and abandoning her children for selfish reasons. I do not believe that to be the case.

Furthermore, the OP's spouse is still there, and the children will be taken care of. I don't understand your outrage.

 

[ngynththo]

I agree that kids come first. But it does not mean we have to stay with them all the time. I used to travel overseas for one or two weeks a month, but I was able to tutor my daughters in Vietnam from France and I knew their grades before my husband who stayed home with them. I knew what they ate and how late they went to bed...although internet was not so popular at that time.
It depends on how you love your kids and how you handle the jobs as a student and a distance mother/wife.
It would be OK if the husband loves kids and spends enough time with them. Otherwise, leaving two 3-5 year-old kids is not a good choice, no matter what reasons.
Kids come first. All of decisions in my life are for my kids, except the decision to marry my husband

 

[tealish]

It's funny because I'm not outraged, my whole point again is that you should feel guilty and don't try to justify it. Accept it, still attend pharmacy school and make a better life for your family. It's just lame to justify in any way shape or form that leaving your children is okay. I never said to quit school and not go to pharmacy school. Many people are reading into my comments way more than what I'm saying because of their biases. All of a sudden, I'm chauvinistic and I said that the OP was abandoning her children. I never said any of those things. I just told the OP that she should feel guilt, accept it, and don't make lame excuses. I'm a broken record but again, people will do what they have to do to live their lives.

And to add, did I ever say that there's only one structure for an effective and loving family, No, I never did, again you are reading in your own biases. And once again, I never said she should stay home or quit school.

Just stating to accept the guilt because that's what the OP put in the title of this whole thread. Should she feel guilty? The answer is yes. Never did I say to quit school or stay at home with the kids. Just don't make lame excuses when you put yourself over your children and try to justify it with a million reasons because there are a million reasons.

Anyway, this thread has been enjoyable, lets just agree to disagree. 🙂

I leave you with a final thought, would you rather have your parents believe what I believe or the opposite of what I believe. Sad part is that the majority think of my beliefs as radical, crazy, chauvinistic, closed minded or whatever... haha...

You have some fair points. Accept the feeling of guilt and move on is a fine approach to take. Guilt in this situation is natural. It doesn't mean it's deserving, but it's understandable.

However, what isn't all fine and dandy is how you have repeatedly deemed the original poster's actions to be one that "puts [herself] over [her] children". Perhaps only she knows her own intentions, no?

 

[mrblah]

You guys are entitled to your opinions, but unless you are a mom, you guys really have no business telling what the OP or anyone else what is the "right" thing to do, because quite frankly none of you have gone through the experience unless you are a mother.

Sure some of you guys can say, "I was a abandoned child", or "raised in a single mother/father home", but that doesn't put you in the same perspective as the mother. You guys can agree and disagree all day long but how does this help the OP? Are you giving her a lesson on morality or something? Are you guys all expert, child psychologists?

You guys should just answer the OP's question without attaching the emotional BS/garbage/baggage/religious/moral bs, or attacking someone else's opinion.

Any decision the OP makes will be criticized by someone, I just hope you guys realize that there is no "right" decision.

To the OP: i wish you the best of luck, and i'm sure whatever decision you make, will be in the best interest to your family and to your future career/academic endevours.

btw, this isn't towards any particular poster, I only read the OP's post and some of the responses.

 

[naseuy]

You guys are entitled to your opinions, but unless you are a mom, you guys really have no business telling what the OP or anyone else what is the "right" thing to do, because quite frankly none of you have gone through the experience unless you are a mother.

Sure some of you guys can say, "I was a abandoned child", or "raised in a single mother/father home", but that doesn't put you in the same perspective as the mother. You guys can agree and disagree all day long but how does this help the OP? Are you giving her a lesson on morality or something? Are you guys all expert, child psychologists?

You guys should just answer the OP's question without attaching the emotional BS/garbage/baggage/religious/moral bs, or attacking someone else's opinion.

Any decision the OP makes will be criticized by someone, I just hope you guys realize that there is no "right" decision.

To the OP: i wish you the best of luck, and i'm sure whatever decision you make, will be in the best interest to your family and to your future career/academic endevours.

btw, this isn't towards any particular poster, I only read the OP's post and some of the responses.

I think you are my new hero.

 

[chibipinkbunny]

Ha, ha, I think someone mentioned Dr. Laura in this thread; this thread reminds me of her 😛 Come to mention it I was reading one of her books the other day in class, and one of my classmates criticized me for it 😱 Since this is a highly charged issue let me just start this comment off by saying this is my thoroughly biased opinion. So leaving young children seven hours behind to live with with their dad doesn't sound like a good idea. First off it is very important that her husband come live with her. She needs to be a family, but that doesn't mean that she can't pursue her dream, while creating a better life for her children. I'm sure many of us have been in that situation. My husband had to move from Sacramento to San Francisco, which he was NOT very happy about, so that I could go to pharmacy school. We did the long distance thing for a few months before he came to live with me. He came up every weekend, and visited me, but I was lonely during the week. Anyway, we were only a few hours apart; I couldn't imagine what it would have been like if he would have been seven hours away. There is no good reason why her husband, and kids can't come up to live with her. I think it is kind of sad though that some people are saying she shouldn't feel guilty about leaving her kids. She's going to be gone for four years! She can probably see them on holidays, or the summer time. Not to mention that her husband will probably feel neglected and resentful, which increases the risk for divorce. I don't know, maybe he's different than most guys. . . In this present day and age there is an emphasis on "quality time," versus "quantity time," that you spend with your kids. I think that's just because people feel guilty. I already feel guilty that I'm not going to be a stay at home mom. No daycare will be able to love my children the way I'm going to love them! I think cheburashka's situation is a little different than the OP. I've known of a few immigrant families that had one member living separately in a different country from the rest of the family. I don't think its as bad because there is probably a reason that only one or some of the family members could make it to the new country. In this situation there is no reason that the husband can't move. Maybe he would have to get a lower paying job, but isn't life about more than money? Anyway, that's not to say that you can't come out as a perfect individual if you are raised by a single parent. Some individuals raised by two loving parents may come out rotten. Its hard to say how certain people are going to turn out, but I think divorces, and long separation are very traumatizing to children. This would be an entirely different situation if she went to school, lived with her husband, and then he worked. At least she'd be able to see the kids every day. Is there a reason the OP isn't clarifying the situation? Is her husband going to work? Are her kids going to be raised by a day care?

 

[glowinglimabean]

Having a stay at home parent is a luxury now a days especially, for people of lower income. Besides that, the US has a very different social system then other traditionally structured cultures were there is a stay at home mom. That is mainly because we had a women's movement in the U.S. while many other countries have not even conceived that notion. I was raised by my grandfather. Actually, out of all my friends I only had one friend who was a stay at home mom. Point is I was not raised by either by my parents, but I was lucky to be brought up by a wonderful man who prepared me well for life. Any stay at home dads out there?

 

[Gizmo]

I think that the statement that being a stay-at-home parent is a luxury is very subjective. I grew up with a stay-at-home mom. My dad was a 27 yo PhD student and my mom was a 25 yo stay-at-home mom, raising 3 kids under the age of 5. We immigrated from Mexico so that my dad could finish his education in the US, and never once did my parents think to have my dad come to the states alone, even though our financial situation would have been better for the kids and my mom had we stayed behind because we would have had an very large extended family to give us support (housing, food, etc).

It was always more important that the family stay together, no matter what. We lived in student housing, we ate the Mexican staple of beans/rice/tortillas/some meat, we shopped at garage sales and goodwill, my dad walked to school (it was a few years into the states before we were able to afford a used car). As a child I never felt that we were roughing it or that financially things weren't as good as the other kids in school. The most important thing was that we were together, and that I knew my parents would do anything to keep the family together. So in my case, having a stay-at-home mom was not a luxury at all, not in the sense that we had lots of money and therefore were able to have my mom stay at home. We were ultra low income because we were surviving on grants from the Mexican gov't to pay for my dad's education, and since we weren't residents of the US, my dad could not work on the side in order to make any money.

Mexico may be more traditionally-minded than the US, but my parents were big liberals and non-traditionalists, yet they always put family first, no matter what. My dad would even go as far as to eat last in order to make sure that the kids and mom got to eat first. What my parents have taught me about true sacrifice, no day care worker could have taught me.

Having a stay at home parent is a luxury now a days especially, for people of lower income. Besides that, the US has a very different social system then other traditionally structured cultures were there is a stay at home mom. That is mainly because we had a women's movement in the U.S. while many other countries have not even conceived that notion. I was raised by my grandfather. Actually, out of all my friends I only had one friend who was a stay at home mom. Point is I was not raised by either by my parents, but I was lucky to be brought up by a wonderful man who prepared me well for life. Any stay at home dads out there?

 

[glowinglimabean]

I think that the statement that being a stay-at-home parent is a luxury is very subjective. I grew up with a stay-at-home mom. My dad was a 27 yo PhD student and my mom was a 25 yo stay-at-home mom, raising 3 kids under the age of 5. We immigrated from Mexico so that my dad could finish his education in the US, and never once did my parents think to have my dad come to the states alone, even though our financial situation would have been better for the kids and my mom had we stayed behind because we would have had an very large extended family to give us support (housing, food, etc).

It was always more important that the family stay together, no matter what. We lived in student housing, we ate the Mexican staple of beans/rice/tortillas/some meat, we shopped at garage sales and goodwill, my dad walked to school (it was a few years into the states before we were able to afford a used car). As a child I never felt that we were roughing it or that financially things weren't as good as the other kids in school. The most important thing was that we were together, and that I knew my parents would do anything to keep the family together. So in my case, having a stay-at-home mom was not a luxury at all, not in the sense that we had lots of money and therefore were able to have my mom stay at home. We were ultra low income because we were surviving on grants from the Mexican gov't to pay for my dad's education, and since we weren't residents of the US, my dad could not work on the side in order to make any money.

Mexico may be more traditionally-minded than the US, but my parents were big liberals and non-traditionalists, yet they always put family first, no matter what. My dad would even go as far as to eat last in order to make sure that the kids and mom got to eat first. What my parents have taught me about true sacrifice, no day care worker could have taught me.

Gizmo, you are very blessed to have a strong family bond. Maybe the correct word is not luxury, but blessed. Yes, my opinion is very subjective because I haven't met too many people with close knit families. I can see that we come from very different backgrounds. My parents got divorced when I was two years old. My family is very small so help was hard to come by as far as raising a child. My parents are also immigrants and there was not enough money to go around. I got 80 bucks a month from my father for child support and that was the most he was able to give me because, he was paying child support for my half-sister from his previoius marriage. I was raised by my maternal grandfather. My grandmother was around but, she had Alzheimer's disease for 15 years, basically I never knew her without the disease. My grandma was like a child, I can't express how wierd it was. We didn't have the money to hire a nurse or to place her in a hospice, so we took care of her. My mom would come home at 5pm from her job at the food packing factory and then go to night school so she can get her high school diploma and after that she pursued her real estate license. I did appreciate having some weekends with my mom and having her around when ever she could. Now as an adult I totally admire her because she did the best that she could in her situation. Could I have had a better childhood if my parents stuck together or have had a mom that would be there with me all the time? Maybe not because my parents had a destructive relationship and I am glad they are apart. One thing that I am sure of is that I wouldn't be the person that I am today. And I am sure that you wouldn't be either if you have not lived the life you lived.

 

[glowinglimabean]

.

 

[laimyours]

Sorry to say but when you start saying that kids aren't better off with having a stay at home parent is just redicoulous. Yeah, not having a parent around is better. People have to do what they have to do, obviously your mom had to work to support you as a single parent but you can't justify that not having a stay at home parent is not better.

Having a stay at home parent is better plain and simple.

There are life circumstances that won't allow it but doesn't still change anything.

Your line of reasoning should follow that since their are kids that don't have loving parents, why should anybody love their children, they still seem to turn out okay... haha...

I'm sure you didn't turn out any worst than kids that had stay at home parents but I'm willing to bet they had a more fulfilling childhood because of the all that time spent with their parents, like you state, you have good memories of things you did with your mom, those kids have even more good memories and isn't that what you wish any kid to have, more good memories.

To start with, my post wasn't directed at you, it was for the person who started this thread. I was trying to give her words of encouragement to help her with the tough decision she is making. I didn't even read what you posted. Therefore I don't know why you are even responding to me. I totally agree with mrblah, I don't even know why moolman turned this into a big morality debate.
"Your line of reasoning should follow that since their are kids that don't have loving parents, why should anybody love their children, they still seem to turn out okay... haha..." Huh what?!?!? I was stating this because I know people who grew up with basically no parents. Their parents were stay at home, and also addicted to meth. Do you get what I am saying? And, just because she is going to pharmacy school doesn't mean she loves her children less. Are you totally delusional? I never said children who's parents don't stay at home are better off. I was stating that I have no resentment towards my mother for not being on welfare just to stay at home with me everyday. So I was "justifying" nothing. I am not a mother myself I was just giving the OP some insight to how I view my mother after she made some tough choices. Your ideals are yours, quit acting like such a jerk. And, just so you know because this is word is a good word to describe the way you are acting, it's spelled "ridiculous" not "redicoulous".

 

[moolman]

Thank you for correctly my spelling mistake, I know your points are great when all you can come back with are spelling mistakes on a internet post. All I ask from this is that you just go through all my future posts on SDN and help my weak spelling skills. I bow down to the spelling police of SDN. And this thread is

Tank you, wait I might have misspelled something, just post here your correction.

To start with, my post wasn't directed at you, it was for the person who started this thread. I was trying to give her words of encouragement to help her with the tough decision she is making. I didn't even read what you posted. Therefore I don't know why you are even responding to me. I totally agree with mrblah, I don't even know why moolman turned this into a big morality debate.
"Your line of reasoning should follow that since their are kids that don't have loving parents, why should anybody love their children, they still seem to turn out okay... haha..." Huh what?!?!? I was stating this because I know people who grew up with basically no parents. Their parents were stay at home, and also addicted to meth. Do you get what I am saying? And, just because she is going to pharmacy school doesn't mean she loves her children less. Are you totally delusional? I never said children who's parents don't stay at home are better off. I was stating that I have no resentment towards my mother for not being on welfare just to stay at home with me everyday. So I was "justifying" nothing. I am not a mother myself I was just giving the OP some insight to how I view my mother after she made some tough choices. Your ideals are yours, quit acting like such a jerk. And, just so you know because this is word is a good word to describe the way you are acting, it's spelled "ridiculous" not "redicoulous".

 

[laimyours]

Thank you for correctly my spelling mistake, I know your points are great when all you can come back with are spelling mistakes on a internet post. All I ask from this is that you just go through all my future posts on SDN and help my weak spelling skills. I bow down to the spelling police of SDN. And this thread is

Tank you, wait I might have misspelled something, just post here your correction.

I wrote an entire paragraph. At the end of the paragraph I corrected one spelling error. It's a commonly misspelled word, I know I appreciate a spelling correction. "I know your points are great when all you can come back with are spelling mistakes on a internet post". You crack me up! You're a professional comedian aren't you?