Should I get a post-bacc? My GPA isn't bad.

[TX500]

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I have between a 3.65 and 3.70 GPA. I graduated 2 years ago and had to figure out which field was right for me, and I decided on medicine. The only reason I was thinking about a post-bacc was so I could let the adcoms know I'm back in school and ready for medical school, but it looks like most of the people that get post baccs are for low GPAs or to finish up pre-reqs. Is there any point in me getting one? Thanks.

 

[GorgeousBorges]

I have between a 3.65 and 3.70 GPA. I graduated 2 years ago and had to figure out which field was right for me, and I decided on medicine. The only reason I was thinking about a post-bacc was so I could let the adcoms know I'm back in school and ready for medical school, but it looks like most of the people that get post baccs are for low GPAs or to finish up pre-reqs. Is there any point in me getting one? Thanks.

You could take a couple of classes informally, not as part of a degree program, but just to get back in the swing of learning science. There's absolutely no reason for you to do an SMP and most formal post-baccs wouldn't accept you as you've already taken the pre-reqs.

 

[TX500]

You could take a couple of classes informally, not as part of a degree program, but just to get back in the swing of learning science. There's absolutely no reason for you to do an SMP and most formal post-baccs wouldn't accept you as you've already taken the pre-reqs.

I've been taking about 2 classes per semester for the past 2 years, just to make sure my brain stays active. I only thought about an SMP because I want med schools to know I can handle rigorous coursework. But it sounds like you're saying it would be a waste of time, right?

 

[GorgeousBorges]

I've been taking about 2 classes per semester for the past 2 years, just to make sure my brain stays active. I only thought about an SMP because I want med schools to know I can handle rigorous coursework. But it sounds like you're saying it would be a waste of time, right?

Yeah. If you handled rigorous coursework during your undergrad years just fine (i.e. got a 3.65 while completing the pre-reqs) then I don't see why there would be any question about that.

You've already got it made academically. Don't spend tens of thousands of dollars just to risk it all. SMPs are expensive, hard, risky and stressful. If you really want to go back to school in that year, do an MPH or something.

 

[RegisBioMedMS]

The students I see in your GPA range that come to us for a post-bac experience usually aren't 100% certain on their career choice or they have been out of school for a while and need a year of intensive study to get back in the swing. If you feel certain and confident, then just apply directly. You could get a good clinical research job to keep yourself engaged and your mind active in the interim. Those can be very inspriring.

 

[positivityrocks]

Yeah. If you handled rigorous coursework during your undergrad years just fine (i.e. got a 3.65 while completing the pre-reqs) then I don't see why there would be any question about that.

You've already got it made academically. Don't spend tens of thousands of dollars just to risk it all. SMPs are expensive, hard, risky and stressful. If you really want to go back to school in that year, do an MPH or something.

Don't mean to to hijack the thread, but if an applicant took most of the prereqs in high school, and then focused on classes in their major for college (w/ similarly strong GPA ~ 3.7), would an SMP make sense in that case? Post-bacc doesn't seem appropriate (with prereqs pretty much complete), and GPA is in-range at most school too, I believe...

For applicants without clinical research experience, I can see the appeal of that option. But, if one already has ~5 years clinical research experience and has been taking 1-2 graduate courses each quarter (while working full-time) it seems like an SMP might be a good way to demonstrate an applicant's ability to handle rigorous courseload?

 

[GorgeousBorges]

Don't mean to to hijack the thread, but if an applicant took most of the prereqs in high school, and then focused on classes in their major for college (w/ similarly strong GPA ~ 3.7), would an SMP make sense in that case? Post-bacc doesn't seem appropriate (with prereqs pretty much complete), and GPA is in-range at most school too, I believe...

For applicants without clinical research experience, I can see the appeal of that option. But, if one already has ~5 years clinical research experience and has been taking 1-2 graduate courses each quarter (while working full-time) it seems like an SMP might be a good way to demonstrate an applicant's ability to handle rigorous courseload?

If you have a 3.7 GPA, a good MCAT and 5 years of clinical research experience and you can't get into medical school outright, an SMP is not going to help you (except Temple or Tulane ACP with their guaranteed admission). There must be something seriously wrong with your personal statement, rec letters or interviewing techniques if you can't get in in spite of having a great academic profile. Academic rigor doesn't matter nearly as much as GPA or MCAT.

The whole point of an SMP is to get you into medical school by compensating for a low GPA. If you can get into medical school, or you have a high GPA, then SMPs have no point.

 

[positivityrocks]

If you have a 3.7 GPA, a good MCAT and 5 years of clinical research experience and you can't get into medical school outright, an SMP is not going to help you (except Temple or Tulane ACP with their guaranteed admission). There must be something seriously wrong with your personal statement, rec letters or interviewing techniques if you can't get in in spite of having a great academic profile. Academic rigor doesn't matter nearly as much as GPA or MCAT.

The whole point of an SMP is to get you into medical school by compensating for a low GPA. If you can get into medical school, or you have a high GPA, then SMPs have no point.

I was afraid that might be the answer. I honestly don't know where I went wrong, as I worked closely with our residency director and other program directors in the med school on my application, received very positive feedback on my personal statement, and thought I might at least get an interview. I've been told I interview well and thought I'd have a good shot if I made it to that stage, but didn't.

The rejection stung a lot, as I really had started to think I might get in, and was sort of preparing to start that part of my life, I guess. I've been thinking about my application a lot and can see that my MCAT is sort of low (10B, 10V, 8P), transcripts are a bit of a mess, some typos in my application, submitted on the late end of things. All lessons learned, but definitely ones that I wish I had learned sooner.

With another year to spare now (I've already been out of school 4+ years), SMPs appeal to me as a way to show I'm committed to medicine full-time (not just taking classes on the side) and actively working to improve my app. Opportunity to take a whole selection of new courses is of course appealing too, as I've been at same institution for almost a decade now (precollege, undergrad, grad, and applied for med school there) and an opportunity to work with different professors could likely be helpful in broadening perspective a bit.

 

[DrMidlife]

I honestly don't know where I went wrong

You list about 5 ways you went wrong. Did you only apply to one school? That's maybe 6 then. Here's a massive dossier I wrote on how to avoid rejection: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=943024

Physicians in practice, and residency program directors, may be too far removed from med school to be terribly helpful with getting into med school.

With another year to spare now (I've already been out of school 4+ years), SMPs appeal to me as a way to show I'm committed to medicine full-time (not just taking classes on the side) and actively working to improve my app. Opportunity to take a whole selection of new courses is of course appealing too, as I've been at same institution for almost a decade now (precollege, undergrad, grad, and applied for med school there) and an opportunity to work with different professors could likely be helpful in broadening perspective a bit.

You say you have a 3.7, but now I'm skeptical since you say your transcripts are a mess. The only GPA that matters for med school admissions is what AMCAS says your GPA is. Grad GPA is ignored until after undergrad GPA & MCAT are considered.

Honestly, doing an SMP would show that you don't have an imagination and aren't resourceful. Use your imagination to consider what would best prepare you to succeed in medical training and practice. And do it. Use your resourcefulness to study the experiences of others who got into med school. Hint: there are no special snowflakes in med school admissions.

Best of luck to you.

 

[MedWonk]

I have between a 3.65 and 3.70 GPA. I graduated 2 years ago and had to figure out which field was right for me, and I decided on medicine. The only reason I was thinking about a post-bacc was so I could let the adcoms know I'm back in school and ready for medical school, but it looks like most of the people that get post baccs are for low GPAs or to finish up pre-reqs. Is there any point in me getting one? Thanks.

You could just take a couple upper level bio courses to show you still have the academic chops to do well. Your GPA is fine, and assuming you have a solid MCAT, good ECs, and all your LORs squared away, then you should go ahead and apply.

 

[positivityrocks]

You list about 5 ways you went wrong. Did you only apply to one school? That's maybe 6 then. Here's a massive dossier I wrote on how to avoid rejection: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=943024

Thanks, I appreciate the help and am sorry about distracting from the original point of the thread. I did make a lot of mistakes, and realistically probably was not ready for it this year. I had some pretty serious medical issues come up that consumed a lot of my attention/energy/time/etc. throughout the summer and fall, but not really an excuse, I know. Working hard to learn from my mistakes now and get things in order to apply far more broadly next season 🙂

Physicians in practice, and residency program directors, may be too far removed from med school to be terribly helpful with getting into med school.

Definitely get this too. If it makes any difference, I work in the med school, and had really encouraging feedback from people there. Not admissions folks, but chair, clinical director, etc. I think I probably just needed to be a more competitive applicant before little things like that could make a difference though. I'm planning to meet with admissions about my application to see if they might have more specific input.

You say you have a 3.7, but now I'm skeptical since you say your transcripts are a mess. The only GPA that matters for med school admissions is what AMCAS says your GPA is. Grad GPA is ignored until after undergrad GPA & MCAT are considered.

Understandable -- to clarify, grad GPA was 3.9 and undergrad 3.7 on AMCAS. With transcripts being a "mess," it's not that the actual grades are poor (mostly As, with a
few Bs in calc-based physics and diff eq), but that I've got a lot of different classes at a number of different places. I'm a bit self-conscious about all the transcripts.

Honestly, doing an SMP would show that you don't have an imagination and aren't resourceful. Use your imagination to consider what would best prepare you to succeed in medical training and practice. And do it. Use your resourcefulness to study the experiences of others who got into med school. Hint: there are no special snowflakes in med school admissions.
Best of luck to you.

I appreciate the honesty and feedback. I've already arranged for other things I've wanted to do anyway (leading a bunch of kids on an 8-week medically-oriented trip this summer, mountain climbing, etc.). I realize I'm not a special snowflake by any measure, but honestly thought my past experiences were sort of unique (formerly olympic level athlete, overcame some significant obstacles, a few interesting research & work opportunities, etc.). I've never been one to do something specifically to get into school, so feel strange choosing something simply because it would "look better." Lots of thinking to do, I suppose.

Thanks again for all of the advice and well wishes, and sorry to TX500 to distract a bit.

 

[GorgeousBorges]

PositivityRocks, your ECs sound awesome. You're making me feel insecure. Everything about your application seems great except for MCAT, but I think your grades would be enough to make up for that. The number of transcripts shouldn't matter, unless you took all of your pre-reqs at different community colleges or something. It sounds like the MCAT is all that's standing in the way of you having a top-20-med-school caliber app.

Did you really only apply to one school? If you only apply to one school, you're gonna have a bad time. And how late did you apply?

You're not derailing the thread, by the way, you are completely relevant to it. I mean, you're another person wondering if they should do an SMP with a 3.7 GPA.

The only post-bacc that you might want to consider is Temple ACMS. With Temple ACMS, you are automatically guaranteed entry into Temple med school upon completion of the program as long as you get a 3.5. If you would be okay with going to Temple, then maybe you should go for it! You need to get some weird recommendations for it, though (I think you need one from a professor who has taught you in chemistry lab or something).

What sport did you play at an Olympic-caliber level (it doesn't really matter for med schools, just curious)?

I hope your medical issues are resolved (feel better!).

 

[positivityrocks]

PositivityRocks, your ECs sound awesome. You're making me feel insecure. Everything about your application seems great except for MCAT, but I think your grades would be enough to make up for that. The number of transcripts shouldn't matter, unless you took all of your pre-reqs at different community colleges or something. It sounds like the MCAT is all that's standing in the way of you having a top-20-med-school caliber app.

Thanks for the encouragement, GorgeousBorges -- its really nice of you to say that! I definitely feel similarly intimidated when reading some of the amazing things people here have posted about, and assume that its a pretty common feeling around here.

Also agree that my MCAT needs to be higher to be competitive at most schools. It was sort of a last minute thing for me with only a few weeks to prepare for a July test date. Lots of mistakes there on my part, unfortunately, but I've signed up for a prep course with TPR this time and am going over all my weak points with TBR 😀

Did you really only apply to one school? If you only apply to one school, you're gonna have a bad time. And how late did you apply?

Unfortunately, yes. I'm interested in MD/PhD and would have been eligible to sit for the comp. exam at the end of next quarter, so figured that would be cleanest way to go (not having to start over with coursework at another university). Also had been talking with former PI about a grant he received -- he said he thought it would be "perfect" for me, so I hoped that staying at my university would be a way to be able to be involved with that.

Unfortunately, I got completely intimidated about the MD/PhD application and ended up completing what I thought was the secondary only a few days before the deadline. Turns out it was only a preliminary secondary 🙁 I got a nice rejection letter soon after that seemed to say, "can't consider you this year because you missed the deadline, but reapply again next year if you don't get in elsewhere." Maybe I'm reading too much into it and everybody gets that response, but somehow it stung less than the other rejection (basically, "we won't be offering you an interview this year, but different schools look for different qualities in applicants, so don't take it too personally. Feel free to reapply again next year.").

The only post-bacc that you might want to consider is Temple ACMS. With Temple ACMS, you are automatically guaranteed entry into Temple med school upon completion of the program as long as you get a 3.5.

Thanks for this suggestion -- it seems pretty interesting, and something I'll definitely look into. It looks like they do have an MD/PhD program, which is appealing to me, and being close to CHOP would be pretty awesome.

To be completely honest though, I'm not feeling a huge rush to get into medical school right now. Of course, I'd love to be accepted and be able to start soon because it all seems very exciting and interesting. A guaranteed acceptance is certainly tempting and maybe it's crazy unwise to pass up that opportunity.

But, I really feel that there's a reason (or, more likely, many reasons) that I didn't get in this year and I want to make sure that I take time to learn from my past mistakes and continue to prepare myself for the road ahead. If Temple seems to offer the best preparation, then I'll certainly hope to get in there, but I just have to think about it all a bit more, I think 🙂

What sport did you play at an Olympic-caliber level (it doesn't really matter for med schools, just curious)?

The first time I was at the OTC for a martial art when I was quite a bit younger. Lots of pressure to drop out of school for that, but I'm really glad I didn't -- ended up getting injured at 16 and the program down there was kind of falling apart by that time anyway... I was lucky enough to have another opportunity to go back to OTC for cycling a while ago, but decided to stay more recreational for the time being. I don't really regret either decision too much because I think everything's turned out pretty awesome so far, but do sometimes wonder what things would be like if I had pursued it a bit more...

I hope your medical issues are resolved (feel better!).

Thanks!! It was a pretty scary time for me, but I'm feeling way better and keeping fingers crossed for good report back from follow-up MRI I had last weekend.

 

[TX500]

Olympic athlete? That's insane!

 

[GorgeousBorges]

PositivityRocks, it's obvious what your issue was. You only applied to one school, which was an MD/PhD program, and applied a few days before the deadline. That would certainly do it. Even Jonas Salk could get rejected if he did that. Everything makes sense now.

My advice to you is simple: kill the MCAT, do whatever else you want, reapply on June first, and you will be accepted to far better medical schools than people like me who have to do SMPs can even dream of getting into. And for the love of God, apply more broadly.

 

[positivityrocks]

Olympic athlete? That's insane!

Thanks! Technically, I haven't ever actually qualified for the Olympics, so am not really an Olympic athlete. Just worked hard and was fortunate enough to get some great opportunities to train and compete with quite a few who were 🙂

In all honesty, I'm not sure I'll even include it on my application next time. If I were applying 10 years ago, then I would of course have nothing else to include on an application because my sport was my life and left very little room for anything else. But, it's been so long now -- I'd guess that most people in my life don't even know about my first sport (it's not a popular one). Quite a few know I like cycling, some know that I raced a bit. A few times, I've mentioned stuff about Colorado, but it's not something that really comes up a lot anymore.

PositivityRocks, it's obvious what your issue was. You only applied to one school, which was an MD/PhD program, and applied a few days before the deadline. That would certainly do it. Even Jonas Salk could get rejected if he did that. Everything makes sense now.

My advice to you is simple: kill the MCAT, do whatever else you want, reapply on June first, and you will be accepted to far better medical schools than people like me who have to do SMPs can even dream of getting into. And for the love of God, apply more broadly.

Thanks again, GorgeousBorges -- I appreciate all of the advice and encouragement (you've honestly helped me feel quite a bit better about the rejection already!). I do plan to apply way more broadly next time and am studying hard for the MCAT now 👍 Will definitely apply June 1st, prewrite secondary essays before hand, and hope for better results this time!


Do you SDNers think it would be a huge mistake to do a SMP in my situation? I'm very, very interested in the program at Case, but it would be a pretty big investment tuition-wise (40k-50k). I might be able to pay it (just barely with pretty much all my savings), but it would be tight. If I stay home and do the same old, same old, I think I could keep working in my job at my state school, which would allow me to continue going to school part-time and work pretty much full-time. A far more financially appealing option, but not as exciting and probably not a great answer for my state school if they ask how I improved my app...

 

[GorgeousBorges]

So I can think of a great way that you could improve your app: get a better MCAT score! Spend like a tenth of that 50k you've got on the best MCAT prep that money can buy. If a 3.7 GPA, 35+ MCAT former Olympic-caliber athlete with years of clinical research experience is the kind of applicant that med school adcoms fantasize about while they're accepting mere mortals. Then if you're going to be bored during the year after every med school ever accepts you in September, you can quit your job and spend the rest of your money traveling the world and having fun. After getting a good MCAT, everything else would just be overkill for you.

 

[deleted248403]

Do you SDNers think it would be a huge mistake to do a SMP in my situation?

Yes

If I stay home and do the same old, same old, I think I could keep working in my job at my state school, which would allow me to continue going to school part-time and work pretty much full-time. A far more financially appealing option, but not as exciting and probably not a great answer for my state school if they ask how I improved my app...

Stay at home - do that option; rock the MCAT; save the $$$

 

[positivityrocks]

So I can think of a great way that you could improve your app: get a better MCAT score! Spend like a tenth of that 50k you've got on the best MCAT prep that money can buy. If a 3.7 GPA, 35+ MCAT former Olympic-caliber athlete with years of clinical research experience is the kind of applicant that med school adcoms fantasize about while they're accepting mere mortals. Then if you're going to be bored during the year after every med school ever accepts you in September, you can quit your job and spend the rest of your money traveling the world and having fun. After getting a good MCAT, everything else would just be overkill for you.

Haha, on a 15 min break from MCAT studying just now with TBR Chem Really hoping I'll be able to pull off a high score, and be ready to apply broadly this summer with hopes of getting in somewhere this time! Thanks again for all of the advice and encouragement, and best of luck with your own applications too!

Yes

Stay at home - do that option; rock the MCAT; save the $$$

Great, thanks! I appreciate the clear advice and will be working hard to prepare for the MCAT this time around. 👍