Should I get an MD?

[LiquidEther]

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Hi guys,

I know there are a handful of topics like this already, but I thought it would be better if I made my own thread rather than hijack someone else's.

I've always wanted to get a PhD and be a scientist. What I'm wondering now is whether a MD might also be worth it. I don't know whether I want to go to med school and get a MD (hopefully even do a MD/PhD program) or apply directly to M.Sc and PhD programs after my undergraduate degree. I've finished my first year of a three-year B.Sc program (since I'm in Quebec, the first year is equivalent to the second year of a bachelor's elsewhere) with a 4.0 GPA, and although I might lose a few points in the higher level lab/seminar courses, I don't think my GPA will be a problem.

I can't see myself doing anything besides working in the biomedical sciences. That said, there is no job security attached to the PhD and competition will be rough. As for patient care, I do like people and I would very much appreciate the satisfaction of helping people, but no one would ever describe me as a "people person," and if all I did was see patients day in and day out, I would grow miserable quite quickly. Of course, a research career can also be very draining since results are never guaranteed. The ideal situation for me would be to have a stable position at a hospital and see patients maybe half the week, and spend the rest of the time actively engaged in research. That plan obviously requires a MD, PhD optional.

That said, a MD does take 4 years of work and dedication (and a subsequent residency if I want to actually practice). I'm sure it would be rewarding and I would enjoy most of the basic science courses, and maybe even the clinical stuff. But I'm worried that investing so much time and energy into medicine when what I really want to do is develop and test scientific principles will be detrimental to my overall career. After all, research is competitive, and I don't know how I would keep up with the competition if I also do the MD. Also, although a MD is probably great for clinical research, I'm not 100% sure that's what I want to do. It's a possibility I'm open to, but I think I might be better suited to basic science.

If any of you have or had doubts about pursuing medicine, I'd love to hear your stories and how you sorted it all out. Is there anyone currently thinking about a MD/PhD? I guess I still have a year and a half before I apply to med school or grad school (and I don't really need to pick until I see which places accept me), but that time flies! Also, if I do decide to be serious about med school, then I might apply out-of-province, and that means doing this MCAT stuff. 😛

Thank you!

 

[Moose A Moose]

Nope. Not if you can't answer this one on your own.

 

[riqwnx]

"I can't see myself doing anything besides working in the biomedical sciences"

"if all I did was see patients day in and day out, I would grow miserable quite quickly"

I think these statements are pretty anti-med school. Moose is right though, you need to think about what you want

 

[kyamh]

You should only go for medical school if medicine is your passion. </party line>

Some things to keep in mind:

1. Who will pay for medical school? Is your family willing? Otherwise the debt ought to be a good deterrent.
2. Remember that you don't need a PhD to do research full time. I know multiple PIs at my Neurobiology department who have MDs only, never went to residency, and do research full time. As long as you stay active in real (not chart review) research during medical school and have some way to access real high level training, you should be able to find a post-doc position after medical school relatively easily. Point #1 applies here too.
3. In general, if you can get over the hurdles of getting into medical school and then paying for it, an MD is a much more versatile degree than a PhD...not to mention the fact that you have hundreds of lifestyle options available to you if you choose to pursue a specialty and go to residency. If you are talented in research and in building resumes, you can try for a part time position at an academic hospital where you spend most of your time in the lab.
4. Are you interested in working with humans in some sort of a translational role? Sure, you can always collaborate, but having an MD/PhD gives you that gold star that grant reviewers are looking for in these cases (source: my PI regularly sits on the review committee at the NIH for grants....take as you will)

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Nope. Not if you can't answer this one on your own.

This.

Definitely don't do it, OP. We don't have as many American scientists as we should, and we have a lot of people willing to give an arm and a leg for a spot in medical school. You'd be screwing someone besides yourself by choosing to go the MD route.

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

It's good to question. It's good to vent. It's good to write down your concerns, if that helps, but asking anonymous strangers to help you make the decision that affects your future years isn't wise. Only you can know whether this career choice is right for you. You're the one who has to earn it.

 

[DermViser]

Hi guys,

I know there are a handful of topics like this already, but I thought it would be better if I made my own thread rather than hijack someone else's.

I've always wanted to get a PhD and be a scientist. What I'm wondering now is whether a MD might also be worth it. I don't know whether I want to go to med school and get a MD (hopefully even do a MD/PhD program) or apply directly to M.Sc and PhD programs after my undergraduate degree. I've finished my first year of a three-year B.Sc program (since I'm in Quebec, the first year is equivalent to the second year of a bachelor's elsewhere) with a 4.0 GPA, and although I might lose a few points in the higher level lab/seminar courses, I don't think my GPA will be a problem.

I can't see myself doing anything besides working in the biomedical sciences. That said, there is no job security attached to the PhD and competition will be rough. As for patient care, I do like people and I would very much appreciate the satisfaction of helping people, but no one would ever describe me as a "people person," and if all I did was see patients day in and day out, I would grow miserable quite quickly. Of course, a research career can also be very draining since results are never guaranteed. The ideal situation for me would be to have a stable position at a hospital and see patients maybe half the week, and spend the rest of the time actively engaged in research. That plan obviously requires a MD, PhD optional.

That said, a MD does take 4 years of work and dedication (and a subsequent residency if I want to actually practice). I'm sure it would be rewarding and I would enjoy most of the basic science courses, and maybe even the clinical stuff. But I'm worried that investing so much time and energy into medicine when what I really want to do is develop and test scientific principles will be detrimental to my overall career. After all, research is competitive, and I don't know how I would keep up with the competition if I also do the MD. Also, although a MD is probably great for clinical research, I'm not 100% sure that's what I want to do. It's a possibility I'm open to, but I think I might be better suited to basic science.

If any of you have or had doubts about pursuing medicine, I'd love to hear your stories and how you sorted it all out. Is there anyone currently thinking about a MD/PhD? I guess I still have a year and a half before I apply to med school or grad school (and I don't really need to pick until I see which places accept me), but that time flies! Also, if I do decide to be serious about med school, then I might apply out-of-province, and that means doing this MCAT stuff. 😛

Thank you!

"if all I did was see patients day in and day out, I would grow miserable quite quickly."

You answered your question.

 

[allantois]

If you can settle for $50,000 a year and pipetting for life, then no reason not to get your PhD.

 

[Noctámbulo]

Check out the Physician Scientist forum, if you haven't already: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forums/physician-scientists.32/ Others have asked similar questions.

 

[masaraksh]

If you can settle for $50,000 a year and pipetting for life, then no reason not to get your PhD.

Dude, stop posting stupid ****

 

[allantois]

Dude, stop posting stupid ****

Maybe after you stop your rude posts. Salaries of public employees are open for everyone so if you did some research on the topic, you would find that many do make that much.

http://www1.salary.com/Asst-Professor-Biology-Salary.html

Oh, and you haven't contributed to this post any more than me.

 

[masaraksh]

You're not doing very good research on bio-med PhDs careers and you're making childish generalizations.

I'm not going to respond to this anymore because it's pointless arguing with you.

 

[motz]

No. You seem to want the MD just for the credentials. If an MD is not a means to make you happy, don't do it. It's $250,000, and none of your colleagues will be impressed with your degree if you're just credentialed deadweight. If you don't like research since the results aren't guaranteed, you can always use your PhD to teach, go into consulting, and more.

 

[Blizzard18]

I love when people say it like they are guaranteed to get into med school, all they need is to decide that they want to go lol. But seriously, sounds like scientific research is your thing. Go for your passion. If you do what you love, it'll work out.

 

[el_duderino]

If you can settle for $50,000 a year and pipetting for life, then no reason not to get your PhD.

stahp no

 

[BrCo]

It sounds like you're leaning to PhD. I teetered between PhD, MD/PhD, and MD for most of my undergraduate years. I got in contact with a bunch of dual degrees in their respective profession and listened closely to what they had to say. Again and again I saw people who, in the end, were forced to choose between research or medicine. My PI was an MD/PhD from Stanford. He told me that the 80% research 20% patient time we hear so much is not a reality for most and is becoming obsolete in a world where science and medical knowledge is increasing exponentially.

Ultimately, it was a gut decision. What I found was that being in lab all day with no patient contact made miserable. It just wasn't for me - not fully. If you had to choose only one - which would it be? Start there and do some soul searching. Also get in contact with PhDs, MDs and MD/PhD - their advice is invaluable and more significant than advice from SDN premeds such as myself.

Hi guys,

I know there are a handful of topics like this already, but I thought it would be better if I made my own thread rather than hijack someone else's.

I've always wanted to get a PhD and be a scientist. What I'm wondering now is whether a MD might also be worth it. I don't know whether I want to go to med school and get a MD (hopefully even do a MD/PhD program) or apply directly to M.Sc and PhD programs after my undergraduate degree. I've finished my first year of a three-year B.Sc program (since I'm in Quebec, the first year is equivalent to the second year of a bachelor's elsewhere) with a 4.0 GPA, and although I might lose a few points in the higher level lab/seminar courses, I don't think my GPA will be a problem.

I can't see myself doing anything besides working in the biomedical sciences. That said, there is no job security attached to the PhD and competition will be rough. As for patient care, I do like people and I would very much appreciate the satisfaction of helping people, but no one would ever describe me as a "people person," and if all I did was see patients day in and day out, I would grow miserable quite quickly. Of course, a research career can also be very draining since results are never guaranteed. The ideal situation for me would be to have a stable position at a hospital and see patients maybe half the week, and spend the rest of the time actively engaged in research. That plan obviously requires a MD, PhD optional.

That said, a MD does take 4 years of work and dedication (and a subsequent residency if I want to actually practice). I'm sure it would be rewarding and I would enjoy most of the basic science courses, and maybe even the clinical stuff. But I'm worried that investing so much time and energy into medicine when what I really want to do is develop and test scientific principles will be detrimental to my overall career. After all, research is competitive, and I don't know how I would keep up with the competition if I also do the MD. Also, although a MD is probably great for clinical research, I'm not 100% sure that's what I want to do. It's a possibility I'm open to, but I think I might be better suited to basic science.

If any of you have or had doubts about pursuing medicine, I'd love to hear your stories and how you sorted it all out. Is there anyone currently thinking about a MD/PhD? I guess I still have a year and a half before I apply to med school or grad school (and I don't really need to pick until I see which places accept me), but that time flies! Also, if I do decide to be serious about med school, then I might apply out-of-province, and that means doing this MCAT stuff. 😛

Thank you!

 

[LiquidEther]

Hi all,

Thanks for all your advice. I'm fortunate enough to be a Quebec resident, and as long as I study medicine in-province debt is a non issue (it takes a lot of dedication to take on the student debt typical of American educations...). And I know I'm not guaranteed to get into med school, particularly not my first choice (although if I explore the option of French universities my chances look really good), but I was essentially wondering if I should commit to all the time and effort necessary to have a strong application.

I also know it's a decision I have to make on my own and I will be thinking about it over the next year and a half as I gather experience, but I was just wondering what other people might say. Thanks a bunch. 🙂

 

[Goro]

NO.

If you want job security, get a MS and be a lab tech or research scientist, or lab mgr.

 

[masaraksh]

Hi all,

Thanks for all your advice. I'm fortunate enough to be a Quebec resident, and as long as I study medicine in-province debt is a non issue (it takes a lot of dedication to take on the student debt typical of American educations...). And I know I'm not guaranteed to get into med school, particularly not my first choice (although if I explore the option of French universities my chances look really good), but I was essentially wondering if I should commit to all the time and effort necessary to have a strong application.

I also know it's a decision I have to make on my own and I will be thinking about it over the next year and a half as I gather experience, but I was just wondering what other people might say. Thanks a bunch. 🙂

Well, in the case of McGill (my undergrad), I can tell you that you've got it pretty good being a Quebec resident and one with a 4.0. Quebec residents have like a 100x better shot at getting a spot compared to out-of-province applicants (like me). Fine, I may be exaggerating a tiny bit. If you do end up applying there, make sure you realize that i) its not just about GPA and ii) the MMI interviews are tough.

source: I interviewed @ McGill as an OOP but got rejected post interview 🙁

 

[masaraksh]

NO.

If you want job security, get a MS and be a lab tech or research scientist, or lab mgr.

MS like that can be pretty decent. You just need to make sure you stay away from academia (that sector pays slave wages). Some of the jobs can be pretty menial/toxic though. Have to be careful (but hey, its not like you're magically free from toxic working environments when you pursue medicine. don't be that naive)

I know multiple BSc Biochem folk right out of non-ivy undergrad in the Cambridge area getting 55-65k and a friend of mine with her MS in molec bio or something is hitting 120k+ in industry.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

If you can settle for $50,000 a year and pipetting for life, then no reason not to get your PhD.

This is one of the most ignorant posts I have ever read.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

MS like that can be pretty decent. You just need to make sure you stay away from academia (that sector pays slave wages). Some of the jobs can be pretty menial/toxic though. Have to be careful (but hey, its not like you're magically free from toxic working environments when you pursue medicine. don't be that naive)

I know multiple BSc Biochem folk right out of non-ivy undergrad in the Cambridge area getting 55-65k and a friend of mine with her MS in molec bio or something is hitting 120k+ in industry.

It is extremely rare to do that well with an MS. Typically you need to get a PhD and then an industry Post-doc if you want to pull that money. The good thing is PhD is free.

 

[LiquidEther]

Well, in the case of McGill (my undergrad), I can tell you that you've got it pretty good being a Quebec resident and one with a 4.0. Quebec residents have like a 100x better shot at getting a spot compared to out-of-province applicants (like me). Fine, I may be exaggerating a tiny bit. If you do end up applying there, make sure you realize that i) its not just about GPA and ii) the MMI interviews are tough.

source: I interviewed @ McGill as an OOP but got rejected post interview 🙁

Tell me about it! I actually applied for the Med-P program straight out of CEGEP. Landing the MMI was easy, but I choked once I got there. I guess the lingering doubts over my career path didn't help. "You sound interested in research. Why not do a science degree?" "Well, um, uh, translational medicine?" Awkward. 😛

MS like that can be pretty decent. You just need to make sure you stay away from academia (that sector pays slave wages). Some of the jobs can be pretty menial/toxic though. Have to be careful (but hey, its not like you're magically free from toxic working environments when you pursue medicine. don't be that naive)

I know multiple BSc Biochem folk right out of non-ivy undergrad in the Cambridge area getting 55-65k and a friend of mine with her MS in molec bio or something is hitting 120k+ in industry.

Yeah, I wish it were so easy. But I'd like to minimize my chances of landing in a toxic environment? 😉

 

[WeCanOnlyTry]

Either MD-PhD or just PhD. If you can find within yourself the passion to serve patients, go with MD-PhD. Otherwise, you won't be doing anyone a favor by getting the MD.

 

[Mad Jack]

Hi guys,

I know there are a handful of topics like this already, but I thought it would be better if I made my own thread rather than hijack someone else's.

I've always wanted to get a PhD and be a scientist. What I'm wondering now is whether a MD might also be worth it. I don't know whether I want to go to med school and get a MD (hopefully even do a MD/PhD program) or apply directly to M.Sc and PhD programs after my undergraduate degree. I've finished my first year of a three-year B.Sc program (since I'm in Quebec, the first year is equivalent to the second year of a bachelor's elsewhere) with a 4.0 GPA, and although I might lose a few points in the higher level lab/seminar courses, I don't think my GPA will be a problem.

I can't see myself doing anything besides working in the biomedical sciences. That said, there is no job security attached to the PhD and competition will be rough. As for patient care, I do like people and I would very much appreciate the satisfaction of helping people, but no one would ever describe me as a "people person," and if all I did was see patients day in and day out, I would grow miserable quite quickly. Of course, a research career can also be very draining since results are never guaranteed. The ideal situation for me would be to have a stable position at a hospital and see patients maybe half the week, and spend the rest of the time actively engaged in research. That plan obviously requires a MD, PhD optional.

That said, a MD does take 4 years of work and dedication (and a subsequent residency if I want to actually practice). I'm sure it would be rewarding and I would enjoy most of the basic science courses, and maybe even the clinical stuff. But I'm worried that investing so much time and energy into medicine when what I really want to do is develop and test scientific principles will be detrimental to my overall career. After all, research is competitive, and I don't know how I would keep up with the competition if I also do the MD. Also, although a MD is probably great for clinical research, I'm not 100% sure that's what I want to do. It's a possibility I'm open to, but I think I might be better suited to basic science.

If any of you have or had doubts about pursuing medicine, I'd love to hear your stories and how you sorted it all out. Is there anyone currently thinking about a MD/PhD? I guess I still have a year and a half before I apply to med school or grad school (and I don't really need to pick until I see which places accept me), but that time flies! Also, if I do decide to be serious about med school, then I might apply out-of-province, and that means doing this MCAT stuff. 😛

Thank you!

You don't sound like you have a real interest in clinical medicine. Do not become a physician, period. If you want to do research AND be a clinician, MD/PhD is right for you. If you want to do research as a primary interest, PhD is the way to go.

 

[LiquidEther]

Either MD-PhD or just PhD. If you can find within yourself the passion to serve patients, go with MD-PhD. Otherwise, you won't be doing anyone a favor by getting the MD.

I'm inclined to agree. I'm curious though what the difference would be between:
1) doing the MD/PhD program at one institution
2) doing the MD first and then getting a PhD elsewhere, or vice-versa
For instance, if I can't get in to a MD/PhD program but I could get in to a MD program, would it make sense to do the MD?

 

[WeCanOnlyTry]

I'm inclined to agree. I'm curious though what the difference would be between:
1) doing the MD/PhD program at one institution
2) doing the MD first and then getting a PhD elsewhere, or vice-versa
For instance, if I can't get in to a MD/PhD program but I could get in to a MD program, would it make sense to do the MD?

Based on your self-description, you may be better off doing a PhD first, and then deciding if med school is worth it. There are programs now that allow you to do a 3 year MD if you matriculate with a PhD in the biological sciences.

 

[madmike 20]

Hi guys,

I know there are a handful of topics like this already, but I thought it would be better if I made my own thread rather than hijack someone else's.

I've always wanted to get a PhD and be a scientist. What I'm wondering now is whether a MD might also be worth it. I don't know whether I want to go to med school and get a MD (hopefully even do a MD/PhD program) or apply directly to M.Sc and PhD programs after my undergraduate degree. I've finished my first year of a three-year B.Sc program (since I'm in Quebec, the first year is equivalent to the second year of a bachelor's elsewhere) with a 4.0 GPA, and although I might lose a few points in the higher level lab/seminar courses, I don't think my GPA will be a problem.

I can't see myself doing anything besides working in the biomedical sciences. That said, there is no job security attached to the PhD and competition will be rough. As for patient care, I do like people and I would very much appreciate the satisfaction of helping people, but no one would ever describe me as a "people person," and if all I did was see patients day in and day out, I would grow miserable quite quickly. Of course, a research career can also be very draining since results are never guaranteed. The ideal situation for me would be to have a stable position at a hospital and see patients maybe half the week, and spend the rest of the time actively engaged in research. That plan obviously requires a MD, PhD optional.

That said, a MD does take 4 years of work and dedication (and a subsequent residency if I want to actually practice). I'm sure it would be rewarding and I would enjoy most of the basic science courses, and maybe even the clinical stuff. But I'm worried that investing so much time and energy into medicine when what I really want to do is develop and test scientific principles will be detrimental to my overall career. After all, research is competitive, and I don't know how I would keep up with the competition if I also do the MD. Also, although a MD is probably great for clinical research, I'm not 100% sure that's what I want to do. It's a possibility I'm open to, but I think I might be better suited to basic science.

If any of you have or had doubts about pursuing medicine, I'd love to hear your stories and how you sorted it all out. Is there anyone currently thinking about a MD/PhD? I guess I still have a year and a half before I apply to med school or grad school (and I don't really need to pick until I see which places accept me), but that time flies! Also, if I do decide to be serious about med school, then I might apply out-of-province, and that means doing this MCAT stuff. 😛

Thank you!

Just get your PhD and not MD. You can still help people indirectly as a PhD in biomedical sciences which can potentially be very rewarding. Do what you have a passion for and not something for "job security". If you don't have a passion for being a medical doctor and seeing sick patients and taking care of them "day in and day out" then DO NOT become a MD. We need both MD and PhD so do what you believe you'd love to do more and what you'd be better at which is obviously PhD. Yes PhD may be very competitive (so is getting into a MD program and landing a solid job as a physician) but don't let that deter you from following your passion. Go PhD and don't think twice.

 

[masaraksh]

Are you at McGill?
What is your major?
Do you want to stay in north america?

I spent a year working abroad after graduating. Doing a PhD abroad is a pretty amazing pathway.

 

[LiquidEther]

Are you at McGill?
What is your major?
Do you want to stay in north america?

I spent a year working abroad after graduating. Doing a PhD abroad is a pretty amazing pathway.

Yeah, I'm studying Pharmacology at McGill. I'm thinking of staying in North America, but if I find something really awesome elsewhere, then that could be great too. Where did you go?

Of all the areas to do a PhD in, biological sciences is a great one in terms of job prospects. There are a lot of opportunities for research in industry afterward, compared to say, physics.

I would look into MD/PhD programs -- no clue if they even exist within Canada. Otherwise start thinking about what kind of research you want to do. Have you applied for an NSERC to do research over the summer?

McGill has MD/PhD. You have to get accepted as a MD student first and then declare your intention to complete a PhD as well. Not sure about the other schools. I didn't apply for NSERC this year because by the time I heard of it the deadline was really close, I didn't really know a lot of profs, and the few I did contact didn't seem convinced that a first year student could possibly be a competitive applicant. 😛 But I am doing a small research project this summer, and I'm definitely going to try for NSERC next summer!

Based on your self-description, you may be better off doing a PhD first, and then deciding if med school is worth it. There are programs now that allow you to do a 3 year MD if you matriculate with a PhD in the biological sciences.

That's really interesting. Do you know which schools offer such programs?