Should I give up? (+How to calculate uGPA and sGPA, non-trad, 33yo)

[hana0205]

For a long time I've never even dreamed of thinking of applying to medical schools because I didn't think I had even the slimmest chance, given my poor (actually) undergraduate GPA. But now that I'm 10 years out from my first undergrad, obtained another BSc (x-ray school), worked in the hospital as a medical imaging tech, went to grad school (Master's degree in bioethics) and worked in a non-profit as a health navigator for 2+ years - I'm thinking, you only live once, and you don't know until you try. I want to get a sense of whether I have a chance, and if there's anything I can do to improve.

My question - I wanted to first get an understanding of where I stand, in terms of GPA (for OMSAS, AMCAS, and whatever other methods used in the Caribbean's, Ireland, etc). The two undergrads are from a Canadian school, grad school is in the US. (I'm a Canadian citizen).

My first BSc - cGPA: 2.56 (graduated 2012)

Second BSc (x-ray school) - cGPA: 3.50

Grad school - cGPA: 3.653

I haven't taken the MCAT yet.

I roughly calculated what looked to count as science courses from my two undergrad degrees according to https://students-residents.aamc.org/media/7861/download = 70.3%. I also calculated the avg of all undergrad courses = 74.7%

How would these translate to in terms of GPA for undergrad cGPA and science GPA?

Do I have a chance? Any other general advice? Thank you!

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[Osminog]

When it comes to US MD and DO admission, your chances aren’t good. As an international graduate, the odds are already stacked against you—and your GPA isn’t going to do you any favors. (By the way, it’s impossible for us to accurately estimate your undergraduate cGPA on the basis of your post, because you omit the number of credit hours for each degree.) Have you taken a practice MCAT?

You would be able to gain admission to offshore medical schools, especially ones in the Caribbean. However, I would very strongly discourage you from pursuing this path.

Also, have you considered podiatry?
Canadian Pre-Pod Information – Canadian Podiatric Medical Association

 

[petomed]

Any GPA of interest can be calculated directly with the various underlying GPAs and corresponding credit hours per the weighted average formula. Please post the number of credit hours that accompanied your first BSc, second BSc, and Grad school cGPA and we can see where you stand cumulatively.

cGPA = (GPA_BSc_1*credits_BSc_1 + GPA_BSc_2*credits_BSc_2 + GPA_Grad*credits_Grad) / (credits_BSc_1 + credits_BSc_2 + credits_Grad)

 

[hana0205]

Got it - thanks for the formula @petomed
I excluded courses that are pass/fail and late withdrawal from the calculations.
@Osminog I borrowed the MCAT prep book from the library and plan to do a practice exam soon.

undergrad + grad cGPA = 2.98
undergrad cGPA = 2.87

This definitely looks more discouraging... any hope/possible strategies before I decide to give up?

 

[hana0205]

You would be able to gain admission to offshore medical schools, especially ones in the Caribbean. However, I would very strongly discourage you from pursuing this path.

Would you mind expanding on why you would discourage this path?

 

[petomed]

Got it - thanks for the formula @petomed
I excluded courses that are pass/fail and late withdrawal from the calculations.
@Osminog I borrowed the MCAT prep book from the library and plan to do a practice exam soon.

undergrad + grad cGPA = 2.98
undergrad cGPA = 2.87

This definitely looks more discouraging... any hope/possible strategies before I decide to give up?

Unfortunately, my answer would then be as you might expect--it depends. People have been accepted with less than your GPAs (see underdawg threads). But you can bet they have something, or several things, on the remainder of their app that makes them outstanding candidates.

My opinion on whether or not you should continue would depend on whether you can answer yes to the below list.

1. Do you honestly believe you can do well on the MCAT? There's only one way to know for sure and that's by studying properly and taking it.
2. Are you definitely on-board with with forking over ~10k in application fees/interviews? You'll need to apply to every DO school and attend every single interview.
3. Are you free to move anywhere to attend medical school? Any restrictions on where you can attend will mean one less school to which you can apply.
4. Will you still be in alright shape with your current career path if no schools dig your app?
5. If you have a spouse or kids, will these relationships remain unscathed by continuing to pursue medicine? If they get damaged, and the application cycle doesn't pan out...those are life-altering changes that you can't undo. And you'll have no ticket to medical school to show as the tit for tat.
6. Can you handle ending up with not one acceptance? This might wreck certain personalities.

I'm frequently shocked when I talk to my peers. Most of them really do seem to have something on their application that sets them apart from the masses. A cancer survivor, 400th degree blackbelt, 1,000's of clinical hours, super high MCAT, a brain aneurism with no deficits, you name it. Take a hard look at your app and make sure you have that 'thing', as a starting point. If you do and you can check off 1-6 as above, then I'd say go for it.

Given the above, the worst case outcome would be swapping a lifetime wondering 'what if' for ~10k in apps and interviews.

And if things do work out? No need for elaboration there.

Just be realistic about your expectations.

2022-23 Underdawgs Thread [in progress]
2021-22 Underdawgs Thread
2020-21 Underdawgs Thread
2019-20 Underdawgs Thread
2018-19 Underdawgs Thread
2017-18 Underdawgs Thread

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

It's not impossible, but it's an uphill battle when the GPA doesn't reach at least 3.0

 

[chilly_md]

Would you mind expanding on why you would discourage this path?

The Caribbean will kick out half of their students over the course of 4 years and those who graduate will have a hard time matching to a residency program. They will then be stuck with a large amount of debt and no way to pay it off. I imagine the chances of matching are even worse for a Canadian citizen if they do not attend a US or Canadian medical school.

 

[Goro]

Would you mind expanding on why you would discourage this path?

I don't see any evidence that you can handle the rigors of medical school.

 

[Dral]

How vigorous was the second BSc with the 3.5? If not very, then you may have some issues with handling the first portion of med school.

If that was the only GPA you had and had all the other check marks (MCAT, research, volunteer, shadowing, clin experience), then I'd say you'd be in good shape for DO and alright shape for possible MD. But, you have your past record to deal with.

It's too difficult for any of us to tell. A DO school could have reviewers who happen to look at your app and see your 3.5 second time around and decide to focus mainly on that and grant you an interview. Once you have an interview, your job would be to sell yourself and sell why you should get a seat in their school. If that would all come together, you'd have a chance.

If you go off shore/Carib, you could be one of those who makes it a year or two, then for whatever reason, doesn't advance (after the school gets your tuition money and you're saddled with debt). If you make it through, you still have to get through the match which is way tougher for off shore grads. It would be a shame to put all that time and money in to end up like that.

So I agree with others so far that if you can get a good MCAT score, focus on DO schools, and can accept a possible failed attempt, then you could think about going for it.