should I give up?

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shirley54

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Hi I am a senior and I transferred to state school (Fall 2013) from a private school. I spent my first 2 years at a private university playing on the women's college volleyball team. It was during the last semester of my sophomore year that my interest in pursuing optometry started. I quit my volleyball career to focus more on being a full time student and took Gen Chem 1&2, Biology 100-103. I did not do well in Gen Chem 1&2. I got a D and C-. For Biology 100 I got a D as a summer course. I always struggled in science courses in high school but always had an interest for it.
Eventually I had to transfer to a more affordable school and am retaking Chemistry 1. I am worried that I may have to retake it again if I end up with a C since it will not bump the D higher than C-. I am also taking physics 1 and am struggling in it. I am hoping to get a C. I really want to keep trying as long as there's a slight improvement but I am also worried if its pointless to keep trying.
I am doing research at my school for this summer and am volunteering at an optometry clinic.


Please give me feedback on my situation.
 
Because I want to learn about ocular diseases and be able to treat patients. I shadowed a few optometrists over the summer and enjoyed the diverse patient- doctor relationships.
 
shirley54 said:
Because I want to learn about ocular diseases and be able to treat patients. I shadowed a few optometrists over the summer and enjoyed the diverse patient- doctor relationships.
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Well I'm interested in playing the piano at Carnegie Hall but it ain't going to happen.

You're barely passing entry level science courses. What makes you think you'll be able to handle upper level science courses or the courses if you were actually to be admitted to optometry school? I'm still very confused here.
 
If Shirley were to get admitted to optometry school, wouldn't that be an indication that the school is confident in her ability to handle the course-load despite her struggles in undergrad? She would obviously have to do well on the OAT but it seems worthwhile to pursue if her heart is set on optometry.
 
opto2be said:
If Shirley were to get admitted to optometry school, wouldn't that be an indication that the school is confident in her ability to handle the course-load despite her struggles in undergrad? She would obviously have to do well on the OAT but it seems worthwhile to pursue if her heart is set on optometry.
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In theory, yes and most reputable schools would not admit someone they expect to fail but with the number of new startups and a scenario where the number of available slots is rapidly approaching the number of individual applicants, you do have to wonder if the need to "fill a seat" will trump other considerations.
 
Umm... honestly with all the new schools, as long as she passes her courses chances are she'll get an admittance SOMEWHERE. Schools won't reject applicants with minimum credentials if they still have openings to fill.

To the OP. There are so many new schools opening/opened, that chances are even with a 2.0 GPA, there is a reasonable chance you'll get accepted somewhere. If I were in your position and I really wanted to go to optometry school, I'd get all the prerequisites and just apply.
 
Optometry school is not a walk in the park. It is a lot of science, and a lot of classes all at once. I feel like if I were to take all of the classes individually, I could get do well in all of them. The problem is that there are so many classes thrown at you at once, it's hard to stay a float. Imagine taking anatomy and physiology, physics, and biochemistry at the same time but add on top of that ocular anatomy, pharmacology, optometry specific courses while having multiple exams each week.
I am not saying you should or should not pursue optometry. I just want you to know what you are looking at.
 
The OP is motivated enough and resourceful enough to know she is interested in optometry and to come on these boards to seek advice. If she is the least qualified candidate to gain admission to optometry in the U.S. this year, then optometry will be good in shape. Just think about it. I'd admit her over some 20 y.o. C-student who couldn't get in to any other professional program and is applying to optometry as a last chance resort. And yes, I'm sure such students do exist, and will be admitted somewhere.
 
Optogal said:
There are so many new schools opening/opened, that chances are even with a 2.0 GPA, there is a reasonable chance you'll get accepted somewhere.
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Do not count on getting admitted anywhere with a 2.0 GPA.
 
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If you are still interested after all those experiences and you still have the energy to give it another go, go for it.
 
Honey, it doesn't sound like you have an aptitude for the sciences. If you look at your transcripts, what classes are you getting A's and B's in? Focus on that. Study that.

You will be so MISERABLE in OD school if you aren't able to get an A in the last semester of Physics, which deals with the optics of light. You must be able to understand the physics of light or you'll not get through optometry school. Period. Furthermore, you have to have A's in Biology to even be considered ... because that's one of the easy undergrad classes. You'll need at least a B average in Chemistry, too.

Anyway, look at your transcripts and ask yourself some serious, introspective, hard questions.

Do what you're good at. Is it English? Or art? Computers?

There are LOTS of careers out there and you might be surprised.

Believe me, optometry isn't that great. It's competitive. Divided as a profession. And it's getting increasingly difficult to find a job and make a living doing it.
 
QUOTE "
Do not count on getting admitted anywhere with a 2.0 GPA.

Your OAT score will be really important, and you will need a good score to offset your GPA. If you are struggling so much with the sceince classes, just keep in mind that there is a lot of chemistry and physics on the OAT as well. For what it's worth (about 2 cents), my opinion is to just decide if you want Optometry badly enough to struggle through your undergrad, and then again through Optometry school, if you are admitted. me are not saying you can't do well in sceince, for all me know you are working two jobs while taking classes, but you are the only one who can gauge that situation."


Even if she has a fantastic OAT, she won't get in with a 2.0 GPA in the sciences.
 
Also, this board has trouble spelling S*C*i*E*N*C*E (just testing).



Oh, that's just weird. Maybe it's my browser.
 
It seems someone has cursed this thread with the inability to spell science, as well as properly use pronouns. science. s c i e n c e. yep. Deleting second half of original post due to inability to continue looking at it.

edit: This is happening all over SDN. Mystery...
 
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You guys look at a calendar today? I bet it is SDN's joke, and it's a good one! 😛
 
shirley54 said:
Hi I am a senior and I transferred to state school (Fall 2013) from a private school. I spent my first 2 years at a private university playing on the women's college volleyball team. It was during the last semester of my sophomore year that my interest in pursuing optometry started. I quit my volleyball career to focus more on being a full time student and took Gen Chem 1&2, Biology 100-103. I did not do well in Gen Chem 1&2. I got a D and C-. For Biology 100 I got a D as a summer course. I always struggled in science courses in high school but always had an interest for it.
Eventually I had to transfer to a more affordable school and am retaking Chemistry 1. I am worried that I may have to retake it again if I end up with a C since it will not bump the D higher than C-. I am also taking physics 1 and am struggling in it. I am hoping to get a C. I really want to keep trying as long as there's a slight improvement but I am also worried if its pointless to keep trying.
I am doing research at my school for this summer and am volunteering at an optometry clinic.


Please give me feedback on my situation.
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Why are you performing poorly in classes? Figuring that out is paramount to the goal you cite.
 
May I ask WHY you want to be an optometrist?

My advice is find a career in a subject where you have excellent aptitude. So, OK. For example, you want a career in the health sciences because you want to help people but you're not good at science. That person should consider a career in psychology and counseling. That mode of study is better for the introspective individual who has the patience to understand philosophy and literature (as opposed to someone like me who prefers cold hard facts proven by graphs and mean deviations).

So ... say you're good at English, literature and writing but want to work in the health care field. That person should pursue an MS or PhD in Psychology/Counseling, for example.

Think hard on it. (I'm being cruel to be kind).
 
Do you guys think she's the least qualified prospective applicant in the U.S.? Or less qualified than EVERY PERSON who has ever graduated from optometry school and is now practicing as an optometrist? What makes you so sure she won't succeed? If Podunk U School of Optometry (and yes, this exists) is trying to fill their classes, do you think they'll look at her trasncript and deem it PROOF she will not make it as an optometrist? Or will they decide they still have 10 spots remaining, and she's the best of the remaining applicants, so they give her a spot and say to themselves (the fact that) undergrad transcripts don't determine whether one becomes an optometrist or not - getting an OD and passing the boards does - so maybe they'll just give her an admittance and see if she floats? Hey, costs them nothing and in fact, costs them money NOT to admit her. Also, better admit her than the next person on the list with a 1.9 GPA.

You can only be as selective as the applicatns who apply. Are you sure she isn't in the top 1750 students who will get into optometry this year?
 
Optogal said:
Do you guys think she's the least qualified prospective applicant in the U.S.? Or less qualified than EVERY PERSON who has ever graduated from optometry school and is now practicing as an optometrist? What makes you so sure she won't succeed? If Podunk U School of Optometry (and yes, this exists) is trying to fill their classes, do you think they'll look at her trasncript and deem it PROOF she will not make it as an optometrist? Or will they decide they still have 10 spots remaining, and she's the best of the remaining applicants, so they give her a spot and say to themselves (the fact that) undergrad transcripts don't determine whether one becomes an optometrist or not - getting an OD and passing the boards does - so maybe they'll just give her an admittance and see if she floats? Hey, costs them nothing and in fact, costs them money NOT to admit her. Also, better admit her than the next person on the list with a 1.9 GPA.

You can only be as selective as the applicatns who apply. Are you sure she isn't in the top 1750 students who will get into optometry this year?
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We're just trying to be objective. We don't know what her GPA is, and you're right, there are definitely applicants who get admitted with low GPA's. The concern is that the OP is struggling in her science classes. Assuming she is admitted, she will still have to get through Optometry school. Shirley54, if you can figure out a way to do well in your classes, I still say go for it, just be aware of what you are getting yourself into. You are the only one who can accurately assess the situation.
 
I believe my post is objective as well.

The reality is, pretty much everyone who applies to optometry school these days will get an acceptance somewhere. There was a thread a while back that discussed the numbers - something like 2500 total individuals filing at least one application, and about 1800 total students being admitted. If you take away the students who apply to optometry but enroll in other professions (dents, meds, nursing, pharmacy, PT, OT, physician assistant, etc.), mature students who decide not to matriculate (they got a job, change their mind, can't afford it, etc.), and remove the REALLY unqualified applicants (missing massive numbers of prerequisites, those failing their courses, the 220 on the OATs, etc,.), then what you get is the lowest-ranking optometry schools having a REALLY hard time filling their classes. Think about it, who in this pool (other than those REALLY unqualified applicants) can they actually REJECT?

So basically, a really motivated C-student who likes optometry and is passing her courses - really - you can paint a much worse picture than her.

And as to whether she'll fail out of optometry school? The fact is the numbers of students who fail out of professional schools in general is low. And none of us really know what the standards will be at the newest schools. Safe to say, they will not be as tough as Berkeley. You really can't fail loads and loads of students in a class. There are reasons in academia why this just doesn't really happen. So who are we to say that she'll REALLY have a hard time getting through optometry school? None of us really know, so my advice to her is if she wants to become an optometrist, do what she needs to become an optometrist until someone/something actually says she can't.

Let me edit: This isn't to say she'll find optomery a walk in the park. MAYBE she'll have a really hard time. MAYBE she'll fail out. She certainly does not go into optometry school as the ideal academic candidate. But until she knows she can't become an optometrist, there's no reason why she can't/shouldn't try.
 
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Optogal said:
I believe my post is objective as well.

The reality is, pretty much everyone who applies to optometry school these days will get an acceptance somewhere. There was a thread a while back that discussed the numbers - something like 2500 total individuals filing at least one application, and about 1800 total students being admitted. If you take away the students who apply to optometry but enroll in other professions (dents, meds, nursing, pharmacy, PT, OT, physician assistant, etc.), mature students who decide not to matriculate (they got a job, change their mind, can't afford it, etc.), and remove the REALLY unqualified applicants (missing massive numbers of prerequisites, those failing their courses, the 220 on the OATs, etc,.), then what you get is the lowest-ranking optometry schools having a REALLY hard time filling their classes. Think about it, who in this pool (other than those REALLY unqualified applicants) can they actually REJECT?

So basically, a really motivated C-student who likes optometry and is passing her courses - really - you can paint a much worse picture than her.

And as to whether she'll fail out of optometry school? The fact is the numbers of students who fail out of professional schools in general is low. And none of us really know what the standards will be at the newest schools. Safe to say, they will not be as tough as Berkeley. You really can't fail loads and loads of students in a class. There are reasons in academia why this just doesn't really happen. So who are we to say that she'll REALLY have a hard time getting through optometry school? None of us really know, so my advice to her is if she wants to become an optometrist, do what she needs to become an optometrist until someone/something actually says she can't.

Let me edit: This isn't to say she'll find optomery a walk in the park. MAYBE she'll have a really hard time. MAYBE she'll fail out. She certainly does not go into optometry school as the ideal academic candidate. But until she knows she can't become an optometrist, there's no reason why she can't/shouldn't try.
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Nobody is attacking your advice. Let me rephrase that, I am not attacking your advice, only the argument you are using to back it up. We can't assess her situation because we don't know enough about her. She's definitely not the least qualified in a pool of 2500 applicants, you are right about those things. A worse picture than her could most definitely be painted, especially by me, because my painting skills are mediocre at best.

Firstly, I know at least several (and that's an exact figure) 3.something GPA applicants who were not admitted anywhere this cycle. Some of them were not even invited to an interview, most likely because they had a below average OAT score, and I'm talking 270, not 220. I think the number of applicants who choose other professions/are missing prereqs/are failing their classes is smaller than you think. Even if it isn't, you aren't helping anyone by painting such a rosy picture (you are probably a more gifted painter than myself) of the application process. Does the OP have a shot at admission? Absolutely, who are we to say she doesn't? Should we tell her that as long as she isn't the worst applicant in the United States, keeps a C average in her science classes and retains a 2.0 cGPA that she will at least land a spot somewhere? Absolutely not. We would be doing her a disservice. Getting into Optometry school isn't the most difficult thing in the world, but it requires effort. If it turns out to be easier than expected, great, that's better than a rude wakeup call, an irreparable C average, and no backup plan.

edit: I do not think any Optometry school has a "really hard time" filling their classes. Or even a moderately hard time for that matter.
 
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You're right - I'm just speaking in generalizations. I don't know anyone who applied in this cycle.

I'm also going to mention that there are schools that haven't opened yet. My replies are directed to the OP, who's likely a few years away before she applies. Once those extra one two three whatever number of new schools open, it probably will be easier for her to get an acceptance then compared to now. Adding three schools at the bottom does make a difference for currently borderline candidates. Huge difference. In the link above, the Massachusetts school has a 292 average OAT. That's pretty damn low. Don't point to their 300 TS as evidence of strength. I figure it likely would've been below 300 too but they did whatever admissions magic they could to keep it equal/above to 300. What about Puerto Rico?

Your friends who didn't get in anywhere - did they apply to the last chance schools or just the established ones?
 
Optogal said:
Your friends who didn't get in anywhere - did they apply to the last chance schools or just the established ones?
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I don't know all the schools they applied to, they very well might have only applied to the more established ones, which are certainly more competetive. You're right about the new schools, that will make a difference. I know that there will be a school in Kentucky starting in I believe 2015, and another in the works in Virginia. I wish these programs weren't being created, but it might mean good news for borderline applicants.

The moral of my story to the OP is just assess the situation as best you can. You like science, that's a plus. Work hard, shadow a lot, research the profession and the challenges facing it. If you still see yourself in the Optometrist's captain seat (ok, it's probably more like a wheely stool, but those are still fun) then go for it.
 
I think a median score on a professional school admittance test is a pretty poor score. I knew someone who got 50th percentile on the LSAT, and he couldn't write with basic proper grammar. He wrote like an elementary school student. Back in the day when NEWENCO was ranked last (not including P.R.), even their OAT was like 320ish. This new school is a full standard deviation below that.

When I say 2.0 or 1.9 or whatever, it is a figure of speech. I have no idea how "low" that is because I never got marks in that range. Point is, "low GPAs".
 
One thing to consider re: GPA and OAT scores is that things work on bell curves. 380, 3.8 applicants are much rarer than 300, 3.0 applicants.

The increase in enrollment in optometry schools does not actually affect the avg entrant stats THAT much. It just means that more applicants from the middle of the bell curve are being admitted.
 
310 said:
One thing to consider re: GPA and OAT scores is that things work on bell curves. 380, 3.8 applicants are much rarer than 300, 3.0 applicants.
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True.

310 said:
The increase in enrollment in optometry schools does not actually affect the avg entrant stats THAT much. It just means that more applicants from the middle of the bell curve are being admitted.
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In this particular thread, what you write here is wrong. The 2500 applicant in the cycle themselves are on a bellcurve. 1800 will matriculate. This implies the entire "center" of the bell curve has already been admitted. Additional spots simply admit those at the tail, and those applicants will have considerably below-average credentials.
 
Actually - thinking about it some more, none of us have any way of knowing which of us is right. We don't know the marks/credentials of the students in the end of the tail. MAYBE they all congregate around 300/3.0 and therefore the last person on the distribution is a 290/2.9, OR maybe they trail off, down to 1.9/220. We don't know, so no way for us to know exactly how the marks will be impacted, other than that they will go below the average of the entire applicant pool.
 
Optogal said:
True.



In this particular thread, what you write here is wrong. The 2500 applicant in the cycle themselves are on a bellcurve. 1800 will matriculate. This implies the entire "center" of the bell curve has already been admitted. Additional spots simply admit those at the tail, and those applicants will have considerably below-average credentials.
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No, that isn't really the point. The bell curve of gpa/oat for applicants is pretty constant. 300 is supposed to be the average oat of those who took it regardless. The additional entrants are gonna come from somewhere in the middle where the stats are okay and the pool to choose from is greatest. That does not open up spots for 2.0 gpas
 
I'm really taking into considerations of all the comments here and I appreciate them. Yes my science lacks like no other but I've been trying my best for the past 3 years. The grades do not shine on my transcript but I am willing to retake classes even if it's more than once. I never thought of majoring in biology and pursuing in optometry before my sophomore year of college because I did better in sports than in my science classes. I had Cs and Bs in my hs science courses. I never took physics though. Basically i took volleyball 1st than school. Mid-sophomore year was when it hit me that I need to aim for something further than volleyball. I had already taken art and business courses. I wasn't interested in them. I decided try science level course and I had more interest in it than the other classes even though the grades weren't as good. I did research in careers and saw optometry. I looked into it more, shadowed, and am volunteering at an optometry clinic now. I think it's amazing to be able to treat and diagnose eye disorders. It's like another "world" in there and to literally see through a patients eyes is fascinating.
 
310 said:
No, that isn't really the point. The bell curve of gpa/oat for applicants is pretty constant. 300 is supposed to be the average oat of those who took it regardless. The additional entrants are gonna come from somewhere in the middle where the stats are okay and the pool to choose from is greatest. That does not open up spots for 2.0 gpas
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Umm. Did you conveniently ignore my second message? Here it is, read it again.

Optogal said:
Actually - thinking about it some more, none of us have any way of knowing which of us is right. We don't know the marks/credentials of the students in the end of the tail. MAYBE they all congregate around 300/3.0 and therefore the last person on the distribution is a 290/2.9, OR maybe they trail off, down to 1.9/220. We don't know, so no way for us to know exactly how the marks will be impacted, other than that they will go below the average of the entire applicant pool.
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You don't know the composition of the applicants at the tail end of the application distribution. So your post is simply speculation, not an argument.
 
shirley54 said:
I'm really taking into considerations of all the comments here and I appreciate them. Yes my science lacks like no other but I've been trying my best for the past 3 years. The grades do not shine on my transcript but I am willing to retake classes even if it's more than once. I never thought of majoring in biology and pursuing in optometry before my sophomore year of college because I did better in sports than in my science classes. I had Cs and Bs in my hs science courses. I never took physics though. Basically i took volleyball 1st than school. Mid-sophomore year was when it hit me that I need to aim for something further than volleyball. I had already taken art and business courses. I wasn't interested in them. I decided try science level course and I had more interest in it than the other classes even though the grades weren't as good. I did research in careers and saw optometry. I looked into it more, shadowed, and am volunteering at an optometry clinic now. I think it's amazing to be able to treat and diagnose eye disorders. It's like another "world" in there and to literally see through a patients eyes is fascinating.
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Shirley. Just be careful that you aren't "reading what you want to read". There is a lot of disagreement in this thread about admissions in general. I'll be the first to admit I'm just talking out of my a$$. I don't know how competitive you are for optometry school, but my OPINION is, with all the new schools around, that in general, for any "average" university student of basic intelligence, the only thing stopping them from getting into an optometry school is the ability to afford it. I didn't say you'll have your choice of schoools. This may mean going to Puerto Rico or whatever equivalent school that may open down the line. But yes, I do believe that if you have represented yourself accurately in this thread, and if you are willing to go to Puerto Rico, that you will be able to matriculate into optometry school if that's what you want to do.
 
I still have a couple years left before I apply. Thank you for the feedback!
 
Optogal said:
Umm. Did you conveniently ignore my second message? Here it is, read it again.



You don't know the composition of the applicants at the tail end of the application distribution. So your post is simply speculation, not an argument.
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Well, the stats for admittance to each school are public information, unless that changed in the last few years. 2.0's have never been in the ballpark. I am speculating, but I think I'm speculating well.
 
OK - as I said earlier, "2.0" is a figure of speech. I'm talking "low GPAs". You are right a 2.0 probably has never gotten in. That said, I think the last-ranked student who matriculates into P.R. probably doesn't have a GPA worth writing home about.
 
here's my advice. i skimmed through the the previous responses. okay i started off at a junior college and worked two jobs and did poorly my first two years i got my act together and started pulling A's and B's. Also i took many unnecessary classes trying to get into uci to end up going to cal state fullerton. i had to retake chemistry because i got a C- i took physics three times first time i withdrew, second time i got a D and the third time i got an A. i got an A in the second part of physics as well. i've worked at an optometry office for over 5 years. what ever people said earlier about you not being able to handle the lower science courses i do agree, but there are plenty of other factors to maybe why your grades are low. mine were because i just worked too much and took 15+ units every semester. long story short i changed the amount of units i took in a semester and worked less. my pre-req courses were all A's and B;s but my overall gpa was really low because of the first couple of years in college. i have over 200+ units and it was nearly impossible to raise my overall gpa. i took the oat and got a 330 but because of my overall gpa being so low the colleges that i applied to said to reapply next year take a bunch of easy classes to raise my gpa. IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT GPA. every school told me the same thing, they did notice i took some courses more than once but the more important deal breaker was my overall gpa. if you can manage over a 3.4 overall gpa and a maintain a decent science gpa you have a standing chance!!! or if you score incredibly well in your oat you can get in. you don't need a 4.0 and a perfect 400 on your oat to get in. trust me. do well on your oat, and really focus on your gpa!!! if optometry is your dream be happy you get in anywhere even if it's not your first pick. at the end of the day you want to be an optometrist right? every school teaches the same material you as a student better pick up your part and make sure you pass the boards. goodluck and i'm sure you'll get in. if you retake the course and get a C it's not the end of the world really. make sure you get As and B's in everything else.
 
oh and there are many online resources you can use to help you in your science courses. KHANACADEMY, freelanceteacher, chad's videos aka course saver. you can use the first two on youtube and chad's videos when studying for the oat or just understand basics for science courses. these online resources saved me while preparing for optometry school. also, schools offer tutoring services take advantage of it and utilize whatever services are available to you. best of luck
 
I feel like this is a troll thread....
 
Your reasons for wanting to be an optometrist are valid and reasonable.

I'm still not convinced this is the right path for you, however. You're not being heroic by pursuing a career in the sciences when you don't have the aptitude for it. It would only be an exercise in self-torture. Optometry is hard and if you can't get a minimum of a B+ in the last term of Physics, you won't make it through optometry school. And if, by chance, you did make it through, you'd have 100% gray hair by the time you were finished and in the end you'd ask, "WHY?"

Were I in your shoes, a good grade in last term of physics would be the deciding factor. And it shouldn't be a hair-pulling, sleep-disturbing, 24-7 effort to obtain that B+. It should be an effortless B+ and if you put some effort into it, it should be an easy A. (The last term of Physics covers the physics of light).

It almost sounds like you'd be good in a career that delves into "super-reality," such as digital photography. Maybe something in Graphic Design using Photoshop or Illustrator. Perhaps something along the line of Auto-CAD. Maybe something combining the arts with the sciences (and that isn't optometry, btw).

You sound a little like me in terms of interests. I do like art though and am fascinated with computer art because of that super-reality component. For the same reasons, I find the eye fascinating as well.

The only problem is ... eyes belong to patients and the people that own the eyes can be difficult!

You need to make sure you REALLY like working with people and working with the public. If being fascinated at looking inside an eye is your sole motivation for being an optometrist, that's not quite enough. It's a start though. Really, it's all about the patient.

Truthfully, sometimes I feel like I'm just a professional a**-kisser.

Also, you're going into a career where you never see sunlight, and during the Winter, you never see the light of day. It has some effect on one's mental health and sanity to work in a small, dark room with smelly people all day long. Sometimes, I literally feel like I'm suffocating -- hence the reason for a constant air purifier in each room. But then -- you have to deal with patients whining about it making too much noise!

Think hard on it and pursue some coursework in other categories besides the sciences in the mean-time. Take a music appreciation class. A history class. A social sciences class. Maybe a class in horticulture. And definitely a class in photography. That would be my advice.
 
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20DOC20 said:
Your reasons for wanting to be an optometrist are valid and reasonable.

I'm still not convinced this is the right path for you, however. You're not being heroic by pursuing a career in the sciences when you don't have the aptitude for it. It would only be an exercise in self-torture. Optometry is hard and if you can't get a minimum of a B+ in the last term of Physics, you won't make it through optometry school. And if, by chance, you did make it through, you'd have 100% gray hair by the time you were finished and in the end you'd ask, "WHY?"

Were I in your shoes, a good grade in last term of physics would be the deciding factor. And it shouldn't be a hair-pulling, sleep-disturbing, 24-7 effort to obtain that B+. It should be an effortless B+ and if you put some effort into it, it should be an easy A. (The last term of Physics covers the physics of light).
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Effortless B+'s and easy A's are not the issue. It's struggling to maintain a C average after semesters of hard work that you would need to be worried about. It is perfectly ok to work hard for a B+. As for other worries, chemistry is much more difficult than undergrad optics, and that's not even the point. Yes, optics is actually relevant to Optometry, so you will want to be sure that it is something you can handle, but more important than mastering a particular subject is developing the study skills/habits that will carry you through graduate school. That is why I am stressing the importance of assessing your own situation. We cannot do that for you, even though it is obvious that you would be interested in "super-reality" which apparently is a thing, and also the reason you should make sure that 20DOC20 is convinced that this is the right path for you before moving forward.

20DOC20 said:
You need to make sure you REALLY like working with people and working with the public. If being fascinated at looking inside an eye is your sole motivation for being an optometrist, that's not quite enough. It's a start though. Really, it's all about the patient.
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Shirley54 has already mentioned being impressed with the diverse patient interactions that took place while shadowing, and hasn't given the impression that her sole interest in Optometry is based on looking at eye balls.

20DOC20 said:
Truthfully, sometimes I feel like I'm just a professional a**-kisser.

Also, you're going into a career where you never see sunlight, and during the Winter, you never see the light of day. It has some effect on one's mental health and sanity to work in a small, dark room with smelly people all day long. Sometimes, I literally feel like I'm suffocating -- hence the reason for a constant air purifier in each room. But then -- you have to deal with patients whining about it making too much noise!

Think hard on it and pursue some coursework in other categories besides the sciences in the mean-time. Take a music appreciation class. A history class. A social sciences class. Maybe a class in horticulture. And definitely a class in photography. That would be my advice.
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These experiences are most likely indicative of the profession as a whole and should be considered relevant. Also, and I cannot stress this enough.. Volleyball = super-reality = photography. You can take that to the bank.
 
QUOTE: "These experiences are most likely indicative of the profession as a whole and should be considered relevant. Also, and I cannot stress this enough.. Volleyball = super-reality = photography. You can take that to the bank."

Actually ... why don't you look into becoming a Sports Photographer?

I'd looked into becoming a photographer (as 2nd career) and it's usually a 2-yr Associates program at a Community College. One of the programs I'd looked into requires an internship at the end to get your degree. One of the internships was with a local sports team! I think it was football.

But ... photography combines art and science. It involves knowing and understanding optical principles without having to understand huge mathematical formulas. And in the age of digital photography, you can add that "super-reality component" to your work.

Plus, you're doing something you know (sports) and like! I mean, the best sports photographers are athletes and sports enthusiasts themselves.

It's just an idea. And gosh, what a fun career that would be!!!

Granted, you may encounter situations of body odor, but the wind can carry that away in an instant!

And about the B+ in last term of physics. I say that should be effortless only because pretty much ALL of your classes in any given semester of first/second year of optometry school will be at that level of difficulty. To have one difficult class that you struggle with is one thing ... and can be overcome with lots of work and tutoring, but to have 5 difficult classes at the same time may be overwhelming to a person lacking in natural science aptitude.

OK. Using self as an example. I got a C in first term of Physics. Dropped the course for the rest of the year because I had taken too many difficult courses at the same time. The rest of the year I got A's in the rest of the other harder science classes. I think it was Biology and Organic Chemistry. Those courses required a lot of time and effort and I needed A's in them, so I made sure that happened.

I didn't retake first semester of Physics. I left it as it was and picked up physics in the 2nd and 3rd term and got an A- in second term of Physics and an A in the third term. I struggled a little with the second semester physics, but the last semester wasn't that hard for me. Maybe it's because I like optics given my own background and interest in photography.

An example of my courseload was:
Second-Term physics (A-), Behavioral Neurobiology (A), Zoology (A) and History of Science (C and that was because I slept through it. The optometry school interviewer asked about why I got a C in that. I explained that the teacher was obsessed with Isaac Newton and only talked about Isaac Newton and that I preferred sleeping to listening to him drone on and on about Newton, who is NOT the foundation of all science, by the way!The interviewer laughed.) and Ballroom Dancing (A). Ballroom Dance was SO FUN!

And then: Third-term physics (A), Biochem (B+) Writing Intensive Course (A), Ecology (A), Zoology (A) and Organic Chemistry Lab (B+ only because I was a clutz and there was an incident where the lab had to be aired out because I spilled some toxic chemicals (oops) and Histology (A). Somewhere in there I also squeezed in a Microbiology course and got an A- or B+ in it.

In optometry school the first semester was like:
Clinical Optics (basically the third term of physics again), Microbiology, Behavioral Optometry (which was probably one of the hardest OD classes I've ever taken), Clinical Dispensing (how to adjust glasses and use lensometers), Eye anatomy (pretty involved), and a Clinical procedures class (where you learn entrance testing).

The problem is that someone without great science aptitude can, with effort, get an A in one of those courses per semester with effort and tutoring, but problem is that you have 4 other hard classes that require similar effort simultaneously.

That's basically the problem she may encounter --- too many hard stuff simultaneously.

There were one or two people taking the whole thing on a 5 year plan and if she were dead serious about it, that would be something she should look into. A friend of mine didn't have that great an aptitude for science and took OD school on a 5-yr plan. He's a great OD. But it cost him more money and time.

Honestly, I don't thing the Return on Investment for Optometry is worth doing a 5-year plan. I mean, you'll graduate with unimaginable debt. You'd be better off in a profession making less, only because you'll have less student loan debt.

And if you think about it ... photography can't be outsourced to China.
 
Last edited:
I must have forgotten to add sarcasterisks around some of the things I said, but you are right and we are both aiming at the same idea. How you perform in undergrad is a fairly good indicator of post-graduate success. Here are the non-sarcastic points I was trying to make to the OP:

1) You don't need to convince anyone on this website that Optometry is the right field for you.
2) We don't know enough about you to make condescending suggestions that you try horticulture instead. 20DOC20's point about photography combining art with a little science is valid, although I haven't read anything from the OP about an interest in art.
3) Doing poorly because you are busy is different than doing poorly because you lack a certain aptitude.

Here is the most helpful post of this thread:

Commando303 said:
Why are you performing poorly in classes? Figuring that out is paramount to the goal you cite.
Click to expand...

*Also, you will have to deal with complaints about the air freshener from the unkempt, and that is something you will need to spend time preparing yourself for. *

** sarcasterisks.
 
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