Should I go to medical school?

[Ge898]

Hello all. I am a 30 year old premed student with a current gpa of 2.7 and I’m worried that I won’t be a competitive enough applicant for Med school. I have volunteered at two hospitals (400 hrs) and have previously worked in a lab. I have taken previous courses and I feel that that even if I get all As in my future 5 courses that it will not be enough to raise my GPA so that I am competitive applicant.

The classes I have taken
-Biology(1 &2)
-Microbiology


Classes I am taken now
-Chemistry 1
-Physics 1

I am reaching out to see if you know of any MDs or students with a similar academic story. If so, what other activities, clinical experience, research, etc. did they use to boost their chances? How many hours did they accrue? What was their MCAT score? Did they yield the Holy Grail of recommendation letters?

Essentially, I’m trying to set in place milestones or thresholds for myself to assess whether I should consider going down another path like PA school. I plan to get good grades in my classes, ,get some more experience, volunteer,etc. and then apply for medical school. If that does not work I plan to apply to PA school.

The issue with this plan is that I know the application process is not only hard but it’s expensive, so would someone like me be best suited for MD/DO or PA school? Broadly speaking, what are my options in the medical field? I was originally drawn to it because of my fascination with surgical work and I really want to make a positive difference in other lives.

Also, I wanted to ask how involved are PA in the surgical field, what do PAs do because I am hearing that PA do mostly clinical work in the surgical setting?

In addition to that I wanted to ask if anyone knows any good guidance programs for premedical students because my college does not offer good services.



Thank you so much in advance!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[DocJanItor]

Ok, first off, MD and DO are equivalent degrees. Both are doctors with full practicing rights. While DO school admission criteria is usually lower than MD schools, equating DO school to PA school is inappropriate.

As for your academics, how many hours do you have at a 2.7? If you're only partially done with your degree then you'll need to make significant improvements and make a 4.0 from this point on. If you're finished with your degree, you'll probably need to start an unofficial post-bacc and get your GPA as high as possible. If you have so many credits that you won't be able to raise it significantly, you'll probably still have to do an unofficial post-bacc to prove that you have improved your academics and THEN do something like an SMP or official post-bacc to show med schools you have what it takes.

When I started this journey my cGPA was just above a 2.5. I got it to a 2.82 with community college courses, the I did an SMP and was admitted the following year. It took me 3 years to take my undergrad courses, take the MCAT, take the SMP, and then start med school. While it wouldn't be impossible to do it faster than that, it would be difficult and things would have to line up perfectly. But I was older than you when I started.

 

[mmchick]

Ok, first off, MD and DO are equivalent degrees. Both are doctors with full practicing rights. While DO school admission criteria is usually lower than MD schools, equating DO school to PA school is inappropriate.

Woah tiger, I don't think he was necessarily equating PA to DO, just simply listing them as alternative options to presumably an MD route.

OP, you should definitely do some thorough research on what it takes to get into medical school. You can find this out by simply going to different MD/DO school pages that list admission requirements - it's all laid out there. How many hours they expect, the types of experiences, MCAT/GPA medians, etc. With your current GPA, you'll likely need an SMP, preferably with a linker. You'll also need all the ECs, presuming you don't have any.. clinical volunteering, nonmedical volunteering, leadership, physician shadowing, etc.

PA is honestly even harder in your predicament if you have no clinical experience. PA schools often require thousands of hours worth of clinical experiences and GPAs, at times, even more competitive than DO schools (>3.4). Again assuming you have no ECs currently and will need a formal postbacc or SMP to improve your academic record + MCAT studying time, you're likely looking at 3-4 years worth of building your application. I suppose that is the main question to ask yourself - are you prepared for the long haul and able to handle the delayed gratification for pursuing either of the three tiers in medicine?

If not, a faster route, if you're just interested in medicine period and want to do something within it, not necessarily at a practitioner level, is go for your RN/BSN and then climb up to specialized positions like surgical nurse, etc. if that is your area of interest. Much easier academically to get in with far less ECs required.

Good luck!

 

[Goro]

Hello all. I am a 30 year old premed student with a current gpa of 2.7 and I’m worried that I won’t be a competitive enough applicant for Med school. I am reaching out to see if you know of any MDs or students with a similar academic story. If so, what other activities, clinical experience, research, etc. did they use to boost their chances? How many hours did they accrue? What was their MCAT score? Did they yield the Holy Grail of recommendation letters?



Essentially, I’m trying to set in place milestones or thresholds for myself to assess whether I should consider going down another path. Which brings me to my next question: Would someone like me be best suited for PA or DO school? Broadly speaking, what are my options in the medical field? I was originally drawn to it because of my fascination with surgical work and I really want to make a positive difference in other lives.



Thank you so much in advance!

With a 2.7 GPA, you're not going to med school, nor should you.

Read this:

• Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

 

[DocJanItor]

Woah tiger, I don't think he was necessarily equating PA to DO, just simply listing them as alternative options to presumably an MD route.

OP, you should definitely do some thorough research on what it takes to get into medical school. You can find this out by simply going to different MD/DO school pages that list admission requirements - it's all laid out there. How many hours they expect, the types of experiences, MCAT/GPA medians, etc. With your current GPA, you'll likely need an SMP, preferably with a linker. You'll also need all the ECs, presuming you don't have any.. clinical volunteering, nonmedical volunteering, leadership, physician shadowing, etc.

PA is honestly even harder in your predicament if you have no clinical experience. PA schools often require thousands of hours worth of clinical experiences and GPAs, at times, even more competitive than DO schools (>3.4). Again assuming you have no ECs currently and will need a formal postbacc or SMP to improve your academic record + MCAT studying time, you're likely looking at 3-4 years worth of building your application. I suppose that is the main question to ask yourself - are you prepared for the long haul and able to handle the delayed gratification for pursuing either of the three tiers in medicine?

If not, a faster route, if you're just interested in medicine period and want to do something within it, not necessarily at a practitioner level, is go for your RN/BSN and then climb up to specialized positions like surgical nurse, etc. if that is your area of interest. Much easier academically to get in with far less ECs required.

Good luck!

DO is an alternative to MD like a hamburger from shake shack is an alternative to a hamburger from 5 guys. They're both still burgers. PA is like a chicken Caesar salad from Panera.

 

[Philly145]

PA is honestly even harder in your predicament if you have no clinical experience. PA schools often require thousands of hours worth of clinical experiences and GPAs, at times, even more competitive than DO schools (>3.4).

🙄

 

[mmchick]

DO is an alternative to MD like a hamburger from shake shack is an alternative to a hamburger from 5 guys. They're both still burgers. PA is like a chicken Caesar salad from Panera.

Not quite. It is a widely known reality that DO will have more of an uphill for certain specialties, getting into academia, etc. and DO has additional OMT whereas MD does not.

One’s defensive feelings about DO doesn’t change these realties. Nice power complex over PAs though.

🙄

I actually applied to PA schools in which I was rejected from every single one with explicit feedback that my cGPA 3.4 was too low for their programs. I’ve been told numerous times I’m competitive for DO programs. Feel free to explain where I misunderstand this though.

 

[Cornfed101]

Not quite. It is a widely known reality that DO will have more of an uphill for certain specialties, getting into academia, etc. and DO has additional OMT whereas MD does not.

One’s defensive feelings about DO doesn’t change these realties. Nice power complex over PAs though.

I think the 5 guys and shake shack analogy is great. Some people prefer one over the other, even if they don’t have any evidence to support that decision. “I’ve always liked shake shack best, and I’m not gonna change my mind!”

 

[emergencydancing]

I think the 5 guys and shake shack analogy is great. Some people prefer one over the other, even if they don’t have any evidence to support that decision. “I’ve always liked shake shack best, and I’m not gonna change my mind!”

Well the problem is that residencies mainly prefer one burger to the other.

 

[Cornfed101]

Well the problem is that residencies mainly prefer one burger to the other.

Yeah, but is shake shack really that much better than 5 guys? Not really. Is MD really that much better than DO? Not really. It’s more tradition that established this. There are some awesome DOs and some awful MDs (and vice versa of course).

We have to live with how it currently is, but I’m hoping the gap closes more over the next 10-20 years

 

[mmchick]

Yeah, but is shake shack really that much better than 5 guys? Not really. Is MD really that much better than DO? Not really. It’s more tradition that established this. There are some awesome DOs and some awful MDs (and vice versa of course).

We have to live with how it currently is, but I’m hoping the gap closes more over the next 10-20 years

I don't think anyone was ever suggesting any sort of hierarchal ranking of any of the three. This side conversation was brought on by some taking offense to use of the word "alternative" to describe DOs relationship to MD, though the same word can be applied to the inverse relationship as well.

There are certainly differences between the two that are worthwhile for consideration when someone is gauging their options with entering the medical field. Based on one's professional aspirations, a case can be made between the two, that is all. Whether people, or patients for that matter, have biases between the two is a whole other conversation.

 

[JustAnotherNonTrad]

I don't think anyone was ever suggesting any sort of hierarchal ranking of any of the three. This side conversation was brought on by some taking offense to use of the word "alternative" to describe DOs relationship to MD, though the same word can be applied to the inverse relationship as well.

There are certainly differences between the two that are worthwhile for consideration when someone is gauging their options with entering the medical field. Based on one's professional aspirations, a case can be made between the two, that is all. Whether people, or patients for that matter, have biases between the two is a whole other conversation.

It actually does seem that OP was making a hierarchical comparison of the three. "Would someone like me be more cutout for PA or DO school"? No one says DO school. Just like allopathic programs, osteopathic programs are medical schools. PA school is PA school. Lumping them together in the same breath after having insinuated that they were interested in MD programs makes it seem as though MDs are doctors and DOs and PAs are not (PAs are not, of course).

This little subset of MDs who just continually have to remind DOs that they train differently ALWAYS seem to forget that they have the same practice rights once training is over. DOs do get offended because they work just as hard and have to continually hear this same, lame comparison and so, yes, they have to assert themselves. The fact that you don't see that a comparison to PA and DO was made doesn't change that fact that the comparison was made.

 

[mmchick]

It actually does seem that OP was making a hierarchical comparison of the three. "Would someone like me be more cutout for PA or DO school"? No one says DO school. Just like allopathic programs, osteopathic programs are medical schools. PA school is PA school. Lumping them together in the same breath after having insinuated that they were interested in MD programs makes it seem as though MDs are doctors and DOs and PAs are not (PAs are not, of course).

It's a matter of syntax, I can understand how one's own feelings about this subject can make it jump out that way as a hierarchy. I don't like to play the game of, "you said X and I interpreted it as Y so therefore you really meant Y". I'm sorry you feel so defensive about DO. There are differences, it is what it is. As someone mentioned, some residencies have preferences. It's a fact of life. Both are licensed physicians that see patients the same. Bias exists where it exists. No one needs a forest fire over this widely, emotion-heavy debate for the nth time on this forum.

 

[NTF]

Read this:

• Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

Very nice overview! Pretty much describes my path of reinvention to a tee. Not much more to add to Goro's post except I encourage the OP to check the "Secrets of Non-Trad Success" stickie thread for narrative versions of what some of us had to go through. It is not for the faint of heart or the impatient.

 

[sw99]

RN is degree be like 7/11. DNP be like Eegees. Anesthesia Assistant be like McDonald's.

 

[JustAnotherNonTrad]

It's a matter of syntax, I can understand how one's own feelings about this subject can make it jump out that way as a hierarchy. I don't like to play the game of, "you said X and I interpreted it as Y so therefore you really meant Y". I'm sorry you feel so defensive about DO. There are differences, it is what it is. As someone mentioned, some residencies have preferences. It's a fact of life. Both are licensed physicians that see patients the same. Bias exists where it exists. No one needs a forest fire over this widely, emotion-heavy debate for the nth time on this forum.

It's the little jabs (see the bolded portion of your quote) that people like you continue on with that keeps the argument alive. I am defensive of the profession as a whole, not DO, not PA, not MD. Why would you be sorry that I'm defensive about DO? That certainly is an (soon to be) allopath belittling osteopaths and you know it. No one has denied bias where it exists but your comment reads just fine with out "I'm sorry you feel so defensive about DO" so why include it?

 

[midazzleam]

I knew someone who had a college GPA of like 2.8. He busted his butt for a couple years destroying an SMP with perfect grades, destroying the MCAT, volunteering, and cranking out research. He matched ortho. I believe he was a tad younger than OP when he decided to go for medicine.

it’s possible but you really have to want to do medicine. It will be extremely difficult. Best of luck

 

[mmchick]

It's the little jabs (see the bolded portion of your quote) that people like you continue on with that keeps the argument alive. I am defensive of the profession as a whole, not DO, not PA, not MD. Why would you be sorry that I'm defensive about DO? That certainly is an (soon to be) allopath belittling osteopaths and you know it. No one has denied bias where it exists but your comment reads just fine with out "I'm sorry you feel so defensive about DO" so why include it?

Because the strength of your feelings are so obvious with every comment you continue on this charade or surmise people’s intentioned meanings from a matter of syntax or choice of words. It’s a subject you’d be better off without feeling so defensive towards as the biases that exist will permeate throughout your career and you should learn to get on with that reality and not let what you think people feel bother you so much. Doesn’t help you any.

 

[JustAnotherNonTrad]

Because the strength of your feelings are so obvious with every comment you continue on this charade or surmise people’s intentioned meanings from a matter of syntax or choice of words. It’s a subject you’d be better off without feeling so defensive towards as the biases that exist will permeate throughout your career and you should learn to get on with that reality and not let what you think people feel bother you so much. Doesn’t help you any.

And you're still doing it. Mind blowing. Also, I'm not a DO 😉

 

[DO2015CA]

Because the strength of your feelings are so obvious with every comment you continue on this charade or surmise people’s intentioned meanings from a matter of syntax or choice of words. It’s a subject you’d be better off without feeling so defensive towards as the biases that exist will permeate throughout your career and you should learn to get on with that reality and not let what you think people feel bother you so much. Doesn’t help you any.

You are also coming off as pretentious. If you are going to call out their emotional commenting then please be aware of your own.

PS everyone knows In-n-out is the best. Heck shake shack and 5 guys

 

[DocJanItor]

You are also coming off as pretentious. If you are going to call out their emotional commenting then please be aware of your own.

PS everyone knows In-n-out is the best. Heck shake shack and 5 guys

Ok, NOW I'm defensive. 5 guys all the way (especially the fries).

 

[zNoodlez]

Hello all. I am a 30 year old premed student with a current gpa of 2.7 and I’m worried that I won’t be a competitive enough applicant for Med school. I am reaching out to see if you know of any MDs or students with a similar academic story. If so, what other activities, clinical experience, research, etc. did they use to boost their chances? How many hours did they accrue? What was their MCAT score? Did they yield the Holy Grail of recommendation letters?



Essentially, I’m trying to set in place milestones or thresholds for myself to assess whether I should consider going down another path. Which brings me to my next question: Would someone like me be best suited for PA or DO school? Broadly speaking, what are my options in the medical field? I was originally drawn to it because of my fascination with surgical work and I really want to make a positive difference in other lives.



Thank you so much in advance!

DO and MD are equivalent degrees, and yes by going DO you will definitely have some more obstacles to face when it comes choosing to match into competitive residencies, however, the differences are not enough to differentiate the two (like how Burgerking tastes drier than McDonald's, but still they are both burgers). With a GPA of 2.7, you are looking at some necessary major revamping needed to be competitive for both MDs and DOs. SMP is almost required at this point. PA school is not in the same league as DO/MD school, period. It is, however, crucial to understand where that 2.7 comes from and how far along are you in finishing med school pre-regs.

 

[DO2015CA]

Ok, NOW I'm defensive. 5 guys all the way (especially the fries).

you right about the fries, but I can’t with you on the burgers.

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

Also a non traditional student although with higher stats. I’m pre DO. I switched from pre-pharmacy because the job market is saturated. For DO’s the average admitted student’s stats are ~3.5 GPA and a little higher than 503 MCAT. (This info is available on the chooseDO website somewhere I believe.) MD stats are even higher. As non traditional students, I believe the MCAT presents unique challenges because we may have taken relevant classes a handful of years ago and may struggle to find the ~400 hours recommended on SDN to study independently. I would use that info as a benchmark. Why is your GPA where it is and how can you improve it? How will you ensure you have enough time to dedicate to MCAT prep? Will you be able to do these things in a timeframe that meets your other needs? I don’t intend to encourage or discourage, only give you a framework. Best of luck!