should I go?

[bludeviled]

---

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to a cornell interview? - I realize the obvious answer is
"ummmm, yea, are you a dumbas$ or something?"

but this will cost around $300 for tix at this point + I already have other options (financially attractive) like a full merit ride to vanderbilt. Other likely options include may include UT Southwestern and UNC-chapel hill (both in-state tuition)
+ pitt, emory

less likely options are:
- penn + columbia - these have been my dream schools forever - Before, I would have jumped at the chance to attend these $50,000+/yr schools if I got in - but now I'm not so sure.

I feel like I'm being pulled apart - part of me is this cosmopolitan party-girl who despararely wants to be in NYC/big city at ANY cost. the other part of me is starting to think realistically into the future (one that includes a family, house, time-off from work to spend w/ my 2-3 kids)

So I mainly started this thread b/c of finances. Before this process started I was thinking" money, smoney, I'll go wherever I'm happiest " But now the sheer expense of med school is starting to stress me - anyone else feel this way? I mean if I took loans to cover everything - I'm looking at $115,000-175,000+ of debt when I come out.
I realize we'll make alot when we start practicing - but thats not that much when you think about a house, family, car etc ...

so back to the original ? - I've spent the last few hours on travelocity trying to find reasonable tix to NYC and its not really happening so far...

- would I go to cornell full price over over free vandy ? - umm prolly not
- would i go to cornell w/ some kind of grant $ - yeah possibly

I by no means expect to get into cornell, but I guess you have to think along those lines to justify an interview right?

oh yeah - and then there is mt. sinai - they aren't being very nice about letting me schedule along w/ cornell but I really can't afford to come again to NYC just for 1 interview. so here I go again, I ask myself the same comparison ?'s over and over. Would I go to X over Y given B? or would I go to Z over X given B? or would I go to Y etc..."
[btw - I'm not whining about my choices - I realize how lucky I am (more so than some, less so than others) ] but nonetheless, its perplexing, and while the decision rests w/ me ultimately, I feel I don't have all the answers.

Anyways, there are so many variables/options running through my mind right now - anyone have suggestions as to how to prioritize thinking? narrowing down?

Thanks

 

[johnstoner]

wow..i'd love to be in your shoes...rock on!

 

[Street Philosopher]

people really seem to like cornell. i would go.

 

[ssh]

Did you try priceline? Why not bid low ball bid a few times after you decide how much you are willling to spend. I dont know where you'd be flying from its a little hard to say what a good price would be. I've gotten some good deals with minimal hassles. Sometimes, it gets cheaper closer to the date cua they're trying to get rid of the seats. Good luck.

 

[bw07]

I would go. You've got a full-ride at Vandy in your back pocket at this point, so don't let the $300 get in the way of your peace of mind. If you don't go, you might wonder later whether you would have gotten in + gotten some aid. That feeling is not good.

On the other hand, if you do go, you'll either not get in/get in without aid (but still have your full ride) or you'll get in with aid and have both options available.

 

[bludeviled]

Thanks guys,
this is all real helpful

ssh, i'm scared to try priceline - what if I get like a 3am flight the day before my interview or I arrive there close to midnight? have u ever had that happen - I heard you can only pick the day but can't control the timing right?

 

[All-Star14]

Originally posted by bludeviled
Thanks guys,
this is all real helpful

ssh, i'm scared to try priceline - what if I get like a 3am flight the day before my interview or I arrive there close to midnight? have u ever had that happen - I heard you can only pick the day but can't control the timing right?

I think you have control over everything except for the price. Congrats on your acceptances and interviews.

 

[tBw]

Originally posted by All-Star14
I think you have control over everything except for the price. Congrats on your acceptances and interviews.

no bluedeviled is right - they give you a price but you don't know what time of day

 

[ssh]

priceline can be a risk but there are ways around it...they dont let you choose a time but look up on travelocity or orbitz what flights are available that day. This should give you an idea of the options particularly if there arent a lot of routes. I cant remember but i think you can stipulate max. # of connecitons and think there are time restrictions, like it has to be before midnight the day you pick, otherwise it would be the next day. Even if you get in late, at that hour from Laguardia, JFK or Newark its about a half hour into the city. Laguardia being the closest to Cornell, probably 20min. Macarthur airport (or is it Islip?) is riskier because its actually far from the city (40min). Its a balance betwent the risk and getting a ticket for $150. Look at this site www.biddingfortravel.com They used to have a coupon where they add like $25 to your priceline bid for free. Also, you can see what other people got for their flight and they have alot of information of how to bid. I hope this is helpful. A cheap ticket is out there...

 

[X]

GO - go, go, go, go, go.

You obviously are thinking hard about it...just spend a few hundred dollars and go. You already said you will have loans or you may not, either way these few hundred dollars to satisfy your curiosity is worth it. In the long run (like a month from today), the little bit of money you spend is not going to matter. So in other words, go.


X

 

[siempre595]

I'd go.
Keep searching for flites, there's probably something cheaper out there. I piddled around with one of mine and got it from 400 to 100 just by looking on every possible search and taking a random connecting flite. Did you try Southwest to anywhere nearby?

 

[surfdevl02]

Bluedeviled....i think i know who you are....we went to Duke together and you know some of my Indian friends, one especially that goes to Vandy now....that's unless there are TWO dukies that got full rides to Vandy this year....good luck on whatever you decide

 

[CJLaw]

I'm really getting sick of posters who b1itch and whine about their future student loan debt and state that the money earned while practicing won't be enough.

Have these people lived in the real world yet? Or are they still living in dorms or college apartments with mommy and daddy footin' the bill?

After residency the average salary for a physician (no matter the specialty) is $105,000! If you cannot live off of that amount of spread, you deserve to be shot.

$105K is broken down to $7500/month net (8750 gross). A $250K home will cost about $1400/month for a mortgage (15 yrs, divide that number in half for a 30 year). A top of the line luxury vehicle, lets say a BMW 738 i (I think that's what it is), fully loaded with all the options will cost you probably about $60,000 or $1000/mth in a payment (with no money down or no trade in). Good health insurance without any assistance from the hospital will cost about $400/month. Utlities on a huge home will run about another $1000/mth. And a $100,000 student loan debt will cost about $1500/mth. So by my count, after a mortgage on a beautiful home, car payment for a top of the line vehicle, utilities, the best health insurance, and student loans--a person making $105k is left with $2200 for groceries, party money, and miscellanous debt! $2200 is $507/week! If that is not enough money to live on---you are a selfish, spoiled, brat with entitlement issues.

It pains me to see how many nieve future doctors there are on SDN, complaining about their future income, while the majority of their patients and others who are living in the real world right now are making ends meet on 2000-3000 per month. The OP needs to get a grip, come back to the real world, and enjoy the ride of wealth and prestige that you are about to embark on.

Sorry for the rant, but I just got done paying my bills!

 

[Mutterkuchen]

Originally posted by CJ2Doc
I'm really getting sick of posters who b1itch and whine about their future student loan debt and state that the money earned while practicing won't be enough.

Have these people lived in the real world yet? Or are they still living in dorms or college apartments with mommy and daddy footin' the bill?

After residency the average salary for a physician (no matter the specialty) is $105,000! If you cannot live off of that amount of spread, you deserve to be shot.

$105K is broken down to $7500/month net (8750 gross). A $250K home will cost about $1400/month for a mortgage (15 yrs, divide that number in half for a 30 year). A top of the line luxury vehicle, lets say a BMW 738 i (I think that's what it is), fully loaded with all the options will cost you probably about $60,000 or $1000/mth in a payment (with no money down or no trade in). Good health insurance without any assistance from the hospital will cost about $400/month. Utlities on a huge home will run about another $1000/mth. And a $100,000 student loan debt will cost about $1500/mth. So by my count, after a mortgage on a beautiful home, car payment for a top of the line vehicle, utilities, the best health insurance, and student loans--a person making $105k is left with $2200 for groceries, party money, and miscellanous debt! $2200 is $507/week! If that is not enough money to live on---you are a selfish, spoiled, brat with entitlement issues.

It pains me to see how many nieve future doctors there are on SDN, complaining about their future income, while the majority of their patients and others who are living in the real world right now are making ends meet on 2000-3000 per month. The OP needs to get a grip, come back to the real world, and enjoy the ride of wealth and prestige that you are about to embark on.

Sorry for the rant, but I just got done paying my bills!

I have lived in the real world for the last 7 years and think that you are painting a rosy picture of $105,000/ year. I agree, even with student debt you can live on this salary, but you are grossly underestimating espenses. Taxes on $8750 gross will leave you with considerably less than $7500, when you include a higher more realistic tax bracket and state income taxes. Your estimate for a $250,000 mortgage is also very low and doesn't include taxes, insurance, etc. The health insurance estimate is also low, if you consider covering a family, rather than individual coverage. And there is no way you will come out of a private school with only $100,000 education debt, unless you have substantial outside support.

I am not suggesting that most doctors are in the poor house, but I do suggest that debt load should be a critical factor when choosing a school. $200,000 debt is psychologically crippling when you are making $35,000 as a resident. Even when you are done it will take a couple of years to get on your feet, which means that if you are a trad student, you will be in your early 30s before you have any significant amount of money. If you are a non-trad like me, we're talking about being 40+.

To the original poster, I would go to the interview. You seem to be interested in NYC and Cornell and I think that you will regret not checking it out. If you get accepted, though, and receive no grants/scholarships it would be irresponsible to pay full price there, when you can go to several other top 25 schools for MUCH cheaper. You can always do your residency in NYC.

 

[TeinVI]

Originally posted by CJ2Doc

$105K is broken down to $7500/month net (8750 gross). A $250K home will cost about $1400/month for a mortgage (15 yrs, divide that number in half for a 30 year). A top of the line luxury vehicle, lets say a BMW 738 i (I think that's what it is)

a 8750 gross will NOT result in 7500 net income after taxes. you'll be lucky if you retain 65% of your income if you make 100K+

and it's 740

it was -5 with the wind chill today in new york.....brrrr

 

[bludeviled]

Originally posted by CJ2Doc
I'm really getting sick of posters who b1itch and whine about their future student loan debt and state that the money earned while practicing won't be enough.

Have these people lived in the real world yet? Or are they still living in dorms or college apartments with mommy and daddy footin' the bill?

After residency the average salary for a physician (no matter the specialty) is $105,000! If you cannot live off of that amount of spread, you deserve to be shot.

$105K is broken down to $7500/month net (8750 gross). A $250K home will cost about $1400/month for a mortgage (15 yrs, divide that number in half for a 30 year). A top of the line luxury vehicle, lets say a BMW 738 i (I think that's what it is), fully loaded with all the options will cost you probably about $60,000 or $1000/mth in a payment (with no money down or no trade in). Good health insurance without any assistance from the hospital will cost about $400/month. Utlities on a huge home will run about another $1000/mth. And a $100,000 student loan debt will cost about $1500/mth. So by my count, after a mortgage on a beautiful home, car payment for a top of the line vehicle, utilities, the best health insurance, and student loans--a person making $105k is left with $2200 for groceries, party money, and miscellanous debt! $2200 is $507/week! If that is not enough money to live on---you are a selfish, spoiled, brat with entitlement issues.

It pains me to see how many nieve future doctors there are on SDN, complaining about their future income, while the majority of their patients and others who are living in the real world right now are making ends meet on 2000-3000 per month. The OP needs to get a grip, come back to the real world, and enjoy the ride of wealth and prestige that you are about to embark on.

Sorry for the rant, but I just got done paying my bills!

WOW - Thank you,
yours is probally the most helpful reply of all - I appreciate it b/c as you rightfully mention I am naive about expenses in the real world.

While you depict a great scenario (i would be more than happy w/ $507 a week) but is that really enough when I have 2 kids? esp. babies - they're expensive!
I realize my future husband will be contributing as well (I have no idea what his income will be though - it could be half of mine?)

Also, I realize these are small monthly payments on things car/house/loans - but man - they last forever! Plus I intend on taking time off to spend w/ my kids through their first stages of life (+ last stages of pregnancy) - I expect to be earning nada then.

 

[DarkChild]

lol - you've pretty much been b1tch slapped enough on this thread, but i thought i'd add some...
conservatively, expect taxes to take 33% of your gross income.
so net of taxes, you're taking home 69.3K or $5775/month
you're low ballin on rent/mortgages - i would really like to see a 250K house in the tristate area, i'm sure they exist, but not anywhere i'd be driving a 7 series - so 2500/month is a much more reasonable mortgage/rent...
then there's your car - say $500/month and insurance, say $250/month, after that you're paying off debt of $1500/month leaving you with $1025 a month before food et al. that aint that great at all.... especially after working for 4 years of MD school and say 4 years of residency.

but not to hijack this thread, back to the OP's questions:
OP - I wouldnt sweat it if you cant make the cornell interview... cornell is a cool place, but I dont think its cool enough to pass up a free ride at Vandy. So unless Cornell put down some serious dough - like >>50% of your tuition, I wouldnt even consider it.
but of course, you'll never know until you go to the interview....
I guess I agree with the other posters, find the $300 if you can, but if not, dont sweat it... NYC is waayy better than nashville, but it aint thaat cool. just come here for your residency!!
😀

Originally posted by CJ2Doc
I'm really getting sick of posters who b1itch and whine about their future student loan debt and state that the money earned while practicing won't be enough.

Have these people lived in the real world yet? Or are they still living in dorms or college apartments with mommy and daddy footin' the bill?

After residency the average salary for a physician (no matter the specialty) is $105,000! If you cannot live off of that amount of spread, you deserve to be shot.

$105K is broken down to $7500/month net (8750 gross). A $250K home will cost about $1400/month for a mortgage (15 yrs, divide that number in half for a 30 year). A top of the line luxury vehicle, lets say a BMW 738 i (I think that's what it is), fully loaded with all the options will cost you probably about $60,000 or $1000/mth in a payment (with no money down or no trade in). Good health insurance without any assistance from the hospital will cost about $400/month. Utlities on a huge home will run about another $1000/mth. And a $100,000 student loan debt will cost about $1500/mth. So by my count, after a mortgage on a beautiful home, car payment for a top of the line vehicle, utilities, the best health insurance, and student loans--a person making $105k is left with $2200 for groceries, party money, and miscellanous debt! $2200 is $507/week! If that is not enough money to live on---you are a selfish, spoiled, brat with entitlement issues.

It pains me to see how many nieve future doctors there are on SDN, complaining about their future income, while the majority of their patients and others who are living in the real world right now are making ends meet on 2000-3000 per month. The OP needs to get a grip, come back to the real world, and enjoy the ride of wealth and prestige that you are about to embark on.

Sorry for the rant, but I just got done paying my bills!

 

[CJLaw]

Originally posted by DarkChild
lol - you've pretty much been b1tch slapped enough on this thread, but i thought i'd add some...
conservatively, expect taxes to take 33% of your gross income.
so net of taxes, you're taking home 69.3K or $5775/month
you're low ballin on rent/mortgages - i would really like to see a 250K house in the tristate area, i'm sure they exist, but not anywhere i'd be driving a 7 series - so 2500/month is a much more reasonable mortgage/rent...
then there's your car - say $500/month and insurance, say $250/month, after that you're paying off debt of $1500/month leaving you with $1025 a month before food et al. that aint that great at all.... especially after working for 4 years of MD school and say 4 years of residency.

hmmm, your estimates seem pretty high--but again I live in the suburbs of a class 3 city in PA, cost of living is much lower here. But still, my point is that currently with a BA and 3yrs of experience in my field, plus with a wife who makes just as much, I have enough money to pay rent on a 3 bedroom townhome, have one car (a 98 SUV), pay utilities, have good health insurance, and only have about 300-400/month for everything else. No matter how anyone else here looks at it, the above scenarios are a HUGE step up. But that's just from somebody who has been living the middle class life.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by CJ2Doc
and only have about 300-400/month for everything else. No matter how anyone else here looks at it, the above scenarios are a HUGE step up. But that's just from somebody who has been living the middle class life.

300-400 left over😱 Dam man you're rich! Pre-med couples NEVER have that much change leftover!


Back to the subject, as Cornell is on my list too ( I took Vandy off because well, it is in Nashville) definitely go!

 

[Bounty]

Hi Bludeviled!
Congrats on all your acceptances! I would say go for it, check it out. You dont want to have any regrets and wonder "what if?"

At least you can spend some time in NYC! 🙂

Have you asked singer what she thinks? I haven't talked to her at all throught this process but i figure if you are on campus, you might as well see what she thinks. 🙂
Bounty

 

[CJLaw]

I have two kids--it goes quick

 

[Tuesday Weld]

Originally posted by the boy wonder
no bluedeviled is right - they give you a price but you don't know what time of day

If that's the case, then why don't you schedule it for the day BEFORE the interview?

Find a buddy or friend or family member that lives within driving distance of the interview.....then you can either rent a car or borrow their car and drive to the interview or take a train/bus to the interview.

 

[ckent]

Any school besides cornell, I might say blow it off. But cornell has such a beautiful campus, and it seems like a nice school, so you might as well go and see what happens. Incidentally, it definitely should be possible to get a cheaper plane ticket. If the lowest price you have been able to get using the internet from all airlines is 2000-3000, you should go talk with a travel agent because I'm sure that they will be able to get you a cheaper ticket even with their fees.

 

[tBw]

Originally posted by Tuesday Weld
If that's the case, then why don't you schedule it for the day BEFORE the interview?

Find a buddy or friend or family member that lives within driving distance of the interview.....then you can either rent a car or borrow their car and drive to the interview or take a train/bus to the interview.

well, most people will fly in the night before anyway. The problem is how long the day before do you want to stay there - most people would rather fly out the evening before so they don't miss work or school that day. With priceline that might mean flying at 6am thus missing an entire additional day of work or school by doing this.

Then the next day you have the same problem in that you might want to fly out that night to save time/avoid missing more school/work or not have to pay for another night in a hotel. Unless you can choose a flight after your interviews are done you pretty much have to fly out the day *following* your interview instead - and there is no time control with priceline.

Then the notion that we can all just find "buddies friends or family within driving distance" (not that you would want to be driving in New York anyhow...) is impractical for most people. I know people across the country but I have still rarely been able to conveniently stay with them. How many buddies do you have in New York?

So especially if you are not staying with a buddy then staying an extra night or even two as you fly in the day before AND out the day after can amount to more than the flight in New York hotels...

There are student host programs and you use these as much as you can but in my experience they don't always work out. Sometimes you're just visiting in the middle of an exam block and no one wants a house guest!

I'm not knocking priceline, it's great. But it's just not always practical. Sure if it doesn't matter taking extra time off work and school, and you have friends to stay with it would be ideal. For most of us thats not the case, or at least not at every interview.

 

[DukeBluDevl02]

BluDeviled,

You're in at Vandy, full ride? I don't know enough about your personal debate, but it seems really dumb to pass that up. NYC is fun and exciting, temporarily. But, you better think harder about passing it up. I wouldn't even waste the time and energy to make the trip up there. Take Vandy.

Oh, and for those of you estimating salaries, someone seemed to forget malpractice insurance costs. That will take a chunk out of the total spendable income you will have. Sorry to add that tidbit in there, if it wasn't already mentioned.

DukeBluDevl02

 

[maugham]

Sorry for the sweeping generalization, but I find it really depressing that so many of the posters on this thread think of their future primarily in economic terms, even to the extent of factoring in the future price of car payments for "top of the line models." And this from people who must only be in their twenties. Call me naive, but what ever happened to youthful idealism? I know this is a digression from the topic, but the grimly pragmatic and materialistic slant to this thread really freaks me out.

 

[fakename310]

get out of here with that

this OP explicitly pointed out how money was a factor in her choosing her college and other posters pointed out her misconceptions on her ability to pay it back

thats all

so go find something else to be depressed about, these people were just being pragmatic.

does "youthful idealism" mean blindly going 200k under when you could have avoided it? if it does, then i'm glad i avoided that stage. ....

 

[14457]

Ckent:

Where did you get the cool Med school counter? How can I get one? plse

 

[Mutterkuchen]

Originally posted by fakename310
get out of here with that

this OP explicitly pointed out how money was a factor in her choosing her college and other posters pointed out her misconceptions on her ability to pay it back

thats all

so go find something else to be depressed about, these people were just being pragmatic.

does "youthful idealism" mean blindly going 200k under when you could have avoided it? if it does, then i'm glad i avoided that stage. ....

I fully agree with you. To ignore the implications of being $200,000 in debt is being "youthfully naive" not "youthfully ideal." I agree that the top of the line auto was a little much, but everything else mentioned was reasonable and legit for most middle class folks.

Money should be a factor in everyone's decision. Even if you decide to go to a more expensive school, you should have good, concrete reasons why it is worth it. Doctors are well paid, but not for many years in the future. For most specialties, the pay doesn't go as far as you think.

 

[DW]

just for your consideration, cornell has a decent amount of grant aid they give out to med students..........

 

[bw07]

I agree. The poster's original question was based on money, so being thorough about debt and payments and whatever is totally appropriate. Talking about it doesn't preclude having other priorities. It's just that when comparing many good schools, those other priorities are going to be satisfied anyway so it's not necessary to talk about them.

 

[CD]

I certainly can't speak for all physicians but the doctor I shadowed last year spent a GREAT deal of time discussing her finances with me. She wanted to paint a realistic view of what faces doctors like her. Her student loans even a this point (10 years out of med school) are at 50K. She is a single parent of two children, after childcare, a modest home, and an escort for a car, not to mention malpractice insurance and payment on those loans, she's lucky to have gas money! Things are very tight for them....not much different than the average family!!!! We don't live in an expensive part of the nation either. Granted she is in family practice in a moderate size city, and works three-four days a week (except when on call once a month when she works 7-days a week). I'd advise you all TALK to the doctors you shadow and ASK them about their financial responsibilites.....you might be surprised what you find out....all is not always as it appears.

 

[X]

It's funny that how you took into account the payments and everything else and you even had $500 leftover. $500 is chump change first of all and that was for the single guy.
What happened to saving for retirement somewhere in there?


X

 

[maugham]

You guys sure get a jumpstart on things. Already bemoaning how poorly compensated you'll be taking into consideration all your expenses--AND YOU HAVEN'T EVEN STARTED MEDICAL SCHOOL. While doctors may not be as highly paid in relative terms as they once were, I wouldn't expect the average person to be too worried about the economic plight of someone making over 150 K. (Yeah, yeah...I know the high overhead, insurance, expenses, taxes, etc, etc. Don't you think non-physicians have expenses too?) I call that being pragmatic.

 

[jwin]

Originally posted by maugham
You guys sure get a jumpstart on things. Already bemoaning how poorly compensated you'll be taking into consideration all your expenses--AND YOU HAVEN'T EVEN STARTED MEDICAL SCHOOL. While doctors may not be as highly paid in relative terms as they once were, I wouldn't expect the average person to be too worried about the economic plight of someone making over 150 K. (Yeah, yeah...I know the high overhead, insurance, expenses, taxes, etc, etc. Don't you think non-physicians have expenses too?) I call that being pragmatic.

I am losing patience here. YES, 150K is a lot money BUT not if you have 200K of student loans. A 200K mortgage is considered a heavy financial burden by most people and that is paid back over 30 years. 200K over the standard 10 years of repayment IS LOT OF MONEY. You must also factor in that only 8500 a year is in subsidized money and the rest is unsubsidized which means that it is going to accumulate interest during med school and residency.

200K is going to between $3500-4000 dollars a month in student loan repayment for 10 years. If you were paying (4000x12) $48,000 in student loans a year then YES I WOULD CALL THAT "economic plight."

150K - ~33% taxes= 100K after taxes. 100K-48K=52K

Now I think that it is pretty fair to say that for someone who has 7-10 years of schooling and training 52K is not a boatload of money.