Should I just cut my loses?

Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
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drdeezren

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Hey guys so I'm a us international medical student. so far I've failed one course 2 times and 3 courses twice while also taking a semester off due to my medical situation. I was just wondering if there was any way of me really matching in the US or if maybe i should withdraw from medical school and pursue something else due to the red flags on my cv? I'm sure i could go on to do well again in my classes but I feel like it might be too late now
 
Hiya! Sorry to hear of your academic struggles. There are a few questions that I feel would be pertinent to consider. Firstly, are you an international student studying at a US MD/DO school or are you a US citizen studying at an international medical school (or maybe neither)? Each would offer a different outlook. Next would be how does your school display successfully remediation on your transcript, as well as leaves of absence? How they portray those or not can go a long way in determining how residencies would view your app. Then, what are your specialty interests, if any? It’s widely recognized that some specialties are more competitive than others, which would be important to factor in regardless of situation. Lastly, what makes you confident you “could go on to do well again in your classes” moving forward? I believe the perseverance can make you much stronger but in an effort to be realistic, you have remediated multiple times and it might not get easier moving forward including with Step exams.
 
I'm a us citizen studying in an international medical school (not caribbean). My school gives the grade for each semester taken, you don't have to repeat the year just the class you failed, as for the leave of absence I'm not sure. My interest are cardiology and emergency. My failures have a variety of reasons attached to it but the main reason is absences from the courses, this is resolved now so in theory shouldn't be a problem from now on.

Edit: I am currently halfway done with my degree (5.5 years here)
 
With the disclaimer that I have no personal experience as a US citizen studying at an international medical school (I‘m an international student that matched from an USMD school), I don’t think you’re DOA. Your US citizenship status offers you the best chance of returning to the US for residency. IM and EM, your interests, aren’t easy to match into but they are certainly not the most competitive, relatively-speaking. So that may also help your odds. Multiple remediations, and even LOAs, will almost always make matching a more uphill battle but if you successfully get through, matching is possible. Harder but possible. You’d have to turn that theory of no further problems into a resounding reality, as well as explain why you had those problems in the first place without making excuses. It is doable if you work extra hard. Step exam performances must also correlate with your story of strong improvement. Hopefully this offers some perspective to help you make a decision. So for you, matching in the US will be undoubtedly harder with no guarantee, but still possible with hard work, clear, solid improvement only, appropriate description of your drive in medicine and failures, and a touch of Luck. Wishing you the best!
 
I have to be honest, as a US-IMG with multiple failure on your transcript, I think the odds of matching are about as close to 0 as possible. There are a handful of international schools which are well connected with US programs, so if yours is one of those schools maaaaybe there is some outside chance if you can do well from here on out, get good letters from US rotations, and do well on USMLE step 2. But it really seems quite unlikely.

I'm sorry that I don't have a rosier perspective on your situation, but I think you need to get honest advice. Continuing down this path is likely a sunk cost fallacy.
 
Aren’t medical schools in most other countries free? Is time the only thing you’d be giving up by trying to graduate and match?
 
voxveritatisetlucis said:
Aren’t medical schools in most other countries free? Is time the only thing you’d be giving up by trying to graduate and match?
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At least where I'm at it's not free, just nowhere near the cost of the states. I'd be investing close to 100k to finish.
 
GoSpursGo said:
I have to be honest, as a US-IMG with multiple failure on your transcript, I think the odds of matching are about as close to 0 as possible. There are a handful of international schools which are well connected with US programs, so if yours is one of those schools maaaaybe there is some outside chance if you can do well from here on out, get good letters from US rotations, and do well on USMLE step 2. But it really seems quite unlikely.

I'm sorry that I don't have a rosier perspective on your situation, but I think you need to get honest advice. Continuing down this path is likely a sunk cost fallacy.
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Thanks for the feedback
 
I'd say things don't look good for getting a spot in the US. Maybe FM at a bottom program? Probably not even there. I believe IMGs with great transcripts compete for those unless things have changed a lot recently.

If you don't have a great financial situation going on, it may be best to cut your losses. The poor class performance can no longer be made up by Step I score. Arguably a stellar Step II score could help a little I suppose.

If you have a good undergrad degree to fall back on (like engineering or something), then you could try to finish and then move back to your undergrad field if you don't match (and pay off the 100k without it being a huge burden). Otherwise, it may be prudent to cut your losses now. It's tough to say without knowing everything.
 
I’m not sure. It will be very hard. I have heard that board failures would be much worse than course failures. If the OP did well on step 1, CK, and CS (not sure if this still exists), could he match FM in a rural area or malignant program?
 
Dral said:
CS got nixed during the pandemic (at least one good thing came out of the pandemic).

Step I is now just P/F.

Step II would be the only way to showcase their academic abilities at this point.
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Yh that's what worries me the most. Apart from that I can just atain High averages in my classes for the remaining years.
 
Could or would you ever just stay in the country your medical school is? Your chances of working as a doctor there may not be as bad.
 
hamstergang said:
Could or would you ever just stay in the country your medical school is? Your chances of working as a doctor there may not be as bad.
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It'd be a lot easier, though I would have to try and get a work visa here. Though I'd rather life in the us or canada. But yh i guess thats out of the question
 
Doesn’t look good. Nobody ever knows for sure, but odds are against you. I would probably cut my losses if it was me. Still time to redirect into a new career path. Don’t lose hope, I’ve met many people who thought their initial goal was one thing, and now they have successful careers in a tangentially related or another field. Be adaptable and open to new ideas, you can still find success in other ways.
 
candbgirl said:
Why did you go abroad for med school in the first place? Is your school one of those well connected to particular US meds hooks?
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Well it's a well known and regarded school I. This side of the world, and one where a lot of my family members studied. It may not have the most hookups but they do have some connections.
 
OraclePL said:
Doesn’t look good. Nobody ever knows for sure, but odds are against you. I would probably cut my losses if it was me. Still time to redirect into a new career path. Don’t lose hope, I’ve met many people who thought their initial goal was one thing, and now they have successful careers in a tangentially related or another field. Be adaptable and open to new ideas, you can still find success in other ways.
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Yh I know nobody knows for sure, I'm just trying to gage how improbable it would be. I really loved my clinical rotation and if there's a somewhat reasonable possibility I'd give it my all. But the truth is I'm pretty sure it's time to change my career path
 
Is this like an Oxford or Heidelberg? If so maybe it would be less of an uphill climb than if it was Caribbean or something
 
drdeezren said:
Well it's a well known and regarded school I. This side of the world, and one where a lot of my family members studied. It may not have the most hookups but they do have some connections.
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Unfortunately, there are no schools in the Americas that are well-regarded in the US (outside of Canada).
I have a US protege who graduated from Escuela Latinoamericana de Medicina (ELAM). Although it is generally well-regarded, it was more of a detriment than an asset in her application.
 
gyngyn said:
Unfortunately, there are no schools in the Americas that are well-regarded in the US (outside of Canada).
I have a US protege who graduated from Escuela Latinoamericana de Medicina (ELAM). Although it is generally well-regarded, it was more of a detriment than an asset in her application.
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I think they’re talking about outside of the Western Hemisphere.
 
gyngyn said:
Unfortunately, there are no schools in the Americas that are well-regarded in the US (outside of Canada).
I have a US protege who graduated from Escuela Latinoamericana de Medicina (ELAM). Although it is generally well-regarded, it was more of a detriment than an asset in her application.
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Yh I knew it was always going to be a con since I dont study in the Americas and am an IMG. But I have a few uncles and cousins who graduated here and all matched into there preferred specialties. Granted only one of them failed one course the second semester so looks a lot worst for me
 
GoSpursGo said:
I think regardless, having failed multiple classes from a school that most will have no particular opinion of makes it very unlikely that you will success in the match.
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Just curious, what if they were from a USDO school. Would it be the same ddx.
 
I’ve actually heard about it too and I don’t really have a connection to Sweden.

Do doctors in Sweden make enough to pay off the debt? I’ve heard it’s a nice country to live so maybe it wouldn’t be that bad to stick it out
 
One thing to keep in mind, and I hate being negative since you seem like a nice guy, even if you make it through and take boards, with all these course failures what if you dont end up passing step 1/2? it seems like you have struggled with the material, could be its not your real interest/passion, could be learning disability, could be a variety of things.

Most people have no idea about medical school in sweden, ultimately when applying for residency, that plus the combined failures I dont think my prior residency program would even interview you, unless you did a very long audition rotation and absolutely destroyed it. And these are a lot of ifs.
 
DrAmazingishere said:
One thing to keep in mind, and I hate being negative since you seem like a nice guy, even if you make it through and take boards, with all these course failures what if you dont end up passing step 1/2? it seems like you have struggled with the material, could be its not your real interest/passion, could be learning disability, could be a variety of things.

Most people have no idea about medical school in sweden, ultimately when applying for residency, that plus the combined failures I dont think my prior residency program would even interview you, unless you did a very long audition rotation and absolutely destroyed it. And these are a lot of ifs.
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Only one of my failures were due to poor academic performance when I was figuring out how to dedicate so much time to studying, the next semester I was stubborn even though I was having a situation that took too much of my time and while the university was understanding my lack of presence meant I failed all the courses I took... despite having the percentage to pass. Followed by the leave of absence resolving those circumstances. I tend to perform well in exams so I think with my focus clear I could pass the boards with a good score in step 2. The thing is I am confident I can go back to a 90 average before this series of unfortunate events. I have some connections that would make getting external clerkships possible and a couple of research opportunities. But the reality is even if all that went according to plan I still probably wouldn't easily match into a FM residency would I?
 
Lawpy said:
That’s actually a good school and I’ll be surprised if most programs aren’t aware. There are top programs who keep tabs on good international schools and many programs are freely accepting IMGs from significantly less well known schools.
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Honestly I'm not too worried about that, more so the red flags on my cv. I don't think it's so well known that it'll have an impact on match decisions
 
drdeezren said:
Honestly I'm not too worried about that, more so the red flags on my cv. I don't think it's so well known that it'll have an impact on match decisions
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Multiple failures is bad news for US MDs and there is a strong preference for US MDs over IMGs in the match. I’m not sure if FM/IM programs struggling to fill will be open but I don’t think recommending them is a good idea.
 
drdeezren said:
Only one of my failures were due to poor academic performance when I was figuring out how to dedicate so much time to studying, the next semester I was stubborn even though I was having a situation that took too much of my time and while the university was understanding my lack of presence meant I failed all the courses I took... despite having the percentage to pass. Followed by the leave of absence resolving those circumstances. I tend to perform well in exams so I think with my focus clear I could pass the boards with a good score in step 2.
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No offense intended, but it sounds like attendance was an important part of your class and you did not meet that requirement which is why you failed despite knowing the content. Did policies specify that attendance is mandatory? Did anyone tell you that your lack of presence was an issue before you discovered you failed the course? Or were you blindsided at the end of term with a fail?
 
shotgunlagoon said:
No offense intended, but it sounds like attendance was an important part of your class and you did not meet that requirement which is why you failed despite knowing the content. Did policies specify that attendance is mandatory? Did anyone tell you that your lack of presence was an issue before you discovered you failed the course? Or were you blindsided at the end of term with a fail?
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I knew about the mandatory attendance. My mother was hospitalized and diagnosed with pancreatic cancer during the semester, So I talked to administration about taking 2 weeks away so I could go visit her among other motives and my professor gave it. after this I was traveling back and forth having been granted permission to miss one day a week. However close to the end of the semester my mothers condition had deteriorated and palliative care in her remaining weeks was the only option left, and she wanted to be home for it. I stayed back and coordinated to get her medical team and nurses, medications etc. and just completely blanked on asking my university for the first week with all the things I was trying to organize and plan - long story short at the end they concluded that since I had missed 50% of my classes and wouldn't be attending finals that they couldn't grant me permission to do the make-up exams. I should have withdrawn when my mom was diagnosed like my professors and coordinator suggested but I thought I would be able to do it.
 
drdeezren said:
I knew about the mandatory attendance. My mother was hospitalized and diagnosed with pancreatic cancer during the semester, So I talked to administration about taking 2 weeks away so I could go visit her among other motives and my professor gave it. after this I was traveling back and forth having been granted permission to miss one day a week. However close to the end of the semester my mothers condition had deteriorated and palliative care in her remaining weeks was the only option left, and she wanted to be home for it. I stayed back and coordinated to get her medical team and nurses, medications etc. and just completely blanked on asking my university for the first week with all the things I was trying to organize and plan - long story short at the end they concluded that since I had missed 50% of my classes and wouldn't be attending finals that they couldn't grant me permission to do the make-up exams. I should have withdrawn when my mom was diagnosed like my professors and coordinator suggested but I thought I would be able to do it.
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My heart goes out to you. You certainly made the right decision to spend time with your mother.

I say this not to kick you while you're down but as a caution to other students who may read this in the future--this is why you really need to take an LOA when faced with a personal or health emergency. There are so many stories on our forums of students who thought they could "tough it out" but wind up doing an incredible amount of damage to their careers. Students faced by an unexpected crisis should step back to deal with that crisis until they can return and give the full attention that medical school demands.
 
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