Should I retake C classes or focus on new classes?

[optimistic3]

I just graduated in May with BS biochem. 3.38 cGPA, 3.12 sGPA (I wish math classes counted in sGPA for DO schools!). I'm planning on taking post-bac classes (DIY post-bac) to raise my GPA but now I'm wondering if should just focus on new classes or also retake the classes that I got a C in.

I got 5 Cs in undergrad - gen chem 1, gen chem 2, physics 1, cell bio, and genetics. I KNOW that I can get an A in 4 of those (I don't think I could in physics...) so I've done the math and with grade replacement, that would help my GPA tremendously. However, I am applying both MD and DO so retaking my C classes wouldn't help my GPA as much on the MD side as taking new classes would and I'm afraid it'd be a waste of time and money in that case. Even outside of GPA, I would really like to take cell bio and genetics again to actually learn the material. I was very, very sick during those semesters and those were my easiest classes at the time so they took the back burner and I got burned. No real excuse for the other classes.

I am studying for my MCAT right now and I'm planning to take it in October. My current plans for the fall are to take The Biology of Cancer + Hematology + (maybe a psych class) + MCAT studying. I'll be applying next cycle.

Has anyone taken the biology or cancer or hematology? How hard are they? What about immunology? I was debating between immunology and hematology but hematology is at the campus that is MUCH closer to me.

But anyway, any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

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[noleknight16]

Absolutely retake the core ones. If you're solely going DO, grade repair at a CC (making sure classes are equal or greater credit hours).

 

[FutureDrB]

Retake for sure. One C isn't going to kill you, so just retake the ones you know you can ace and don't worry about taking any new classes.

 

[adriano710]

In a similar thought process as you. I have 3 C's in my gen chem 1, gen chem 2, and physics 1 from freshman year. I have a full 23 credits of science classes left to do so I am banking on having those put my sGPA 3.2+ and my cGPA 3.4+. I will be taking MCAT 2015 in May.

I believe that I will be applying with those 3 C's. If need be, I will retake those courses but from what I've heard if you prove that you can do higher course work in science classes and do well, the C's will not keep you out of medical school.

 

[optimistic3]

Absolutely retake the core ones. If you're solely going DO, grade repair at a CC (making sure classes are equal or greater credit hours).

I'm not; I'm applying both DO and MD. If I were just going DO, then it'd be an easier choice and I'd just retake those classes. However, I want to keep my options open for MD as well.

Hence my dilemma.

 

[adriano710]

I'm not; I'm applying both DO and MD. If I were just going DO, then it'd be an easier choice and I'd just retake those classes. However, I want to keep my options open for MD as well.

Hence my dilemma.

For MD, you're going have to hit a 30+ and STILL have to get your GPA at a 3.5+

 

[optimistic3]

For MD, you're going have to hit a 30+ and STILL have to get your GPA at a 3.5+

Yes, I do understand this. Maybe I'm not understanding how AMCAS calculates grade retakes. I'm reading the instruction manual right now and what I'm getting from it is that when you retake it, it just counts as another class. If so, then retaking a C class would affect my GPA exactly the same as taking a new class (assuming I get the same grade and they are worth the same amount of credits). However for DO, it would completely replace my previous C. Is that correct?

If that's the case, then I should definitely retake my C classes. I guess I was misunderstanding it before.

 

[noleknight16]

Retaking only the core classes and getting A's, what would both GPAs look like without grade replacement (what it would be on AMCAS)?

Use this if you need one: http://www.ncsu.edu/reg-records/faq/gpa.html

 

[noleknight16]

Yes, I do understand this. Maybe I'm not understanding how AMCAS calculates grade retakes. I'm reading the instruction manual right now and what I'm getting from it is that when you retake it, it just counts as another class. If so, then retaking a C class would affect my GPA exactly the same as taking a new class (assuming I get the same grade and they are worth the same amount of credits). However for DO, it would completely replace my previous C. Is that correct?

If that's the case, then I should definitely retake my C classes. I guess I was misunderstanding it before.

Yes that's how it works. AMCAS adds the new class but doesn't replace the old class in the calculation. Both classes grades and credits are in the calculation. DO will completely replace the lower grade and not use it in the calculation.

 

[optimistic3]

Yes that's how it works. AMCAS adds the new class but doesn't replace the old class in the calculation. Both classes grades and credits are in the calculation. DO will completely replace the lower grade and not use it in the calculation.

I'm confused now. I've seen other threads that said AMCAS averages the grades (meaning if you get a C the first time and an A in a repeat, they'll give you a B). That means they don't just add the new class. This makes a slight difference in the final GPA. Can anyone verify which one is correct? I just looked through the AMCAS instruction manual and it doesn't talk about how it calculates GPAs with repeated courses. I couldn't find an exact answer anywhere. Maybe I'm not searching for the right thing.

My concern now is that if I do somehow manage to get a interview at an MD school, I feel like they would ask me why I retook 4 courses that I didn't fail when I could've taken 4 new courses to increase my GPA even more. Obviously the answer is that this way it increases my AACOMAS GPA significantly but I don't think they would like that answer.

However, I did the math and my AACOMAS cGPA with the 4 retakes (all As) would be 3.55 and by sGPA would be 3.42. WOW those are beautiful numbers to me. Those would be competitive, right? My AMCAS cGPA would be 3.46 and sGPA 3.30 (assuming repeated grades are averaged and not added as a new class). Those are better than what I have now but still need a boost for MD schools. I feel like going the retake route would almost lock me in for sure for DO schools and that scares me. Not sure why.

What do you guys think about taking the classes at a CC? Should I avoid it (let's assume the course descriptions are the same)? It would be SO much cheaper to do it there than at the university extension where I was planning to take courses this fall (a different school than my undergrad - I just moved to a different state). The extension offers cell bio and genetics this fall only in the far away campuses from me (over 1 hr drive) or online. I really don't think I want to take online classes! However, maybe I could take gen chem 1 and 2 this fall semester and it'd be at the campus location that's a much more doable drive. Keep in mind I'm also studying for my MCAT this fall so I think I only want to take 2 classes. Otherwise, I would've taken all 4 at once. Next semester I plan to take 4 classes.

 

[optimistic3]

OR what if I take 2 new science classes this semester (biology of cancer and hematology, like I was planning. They are all at the nearby campus so it works) and then take all 4 repeats next semester. That way I get 6 sciences in before applying next year without overloading myself. However, I did also want to take a psych class (I know I need one more for some MD schools plus I know a lot of them ask for a non-science professor LoR and I don't have anyone to ask atm so I was hoping I could try for one in that class). I don't know when I'd be able to take that in that case. I'm afraid to squeeze it in either of these semesters...unless I just take 1 science class and one psych class this semester.

I'm SO stressed out about this whole situation. I've spent a ton of time researching and worrying that I could've used to study for my MCAT instead. I just moved 2 months ago so I'm still trying to learn about all the schools here and I have no advisor or mentor or anything. I know no one in the medical field personally and I don't have an undergrad advisor anymore (not that they're always right....) so I have no one to ask except for SDN. I would love some more feedback from you knowledgeable people.

Do med schools ever have advisors that will talk to premeds and give advice?

 

[RoadNurse33]

I'm SO stressed out about this whole situation. I've spent a ton of time researching and worrying that I could've used to study for my MCAT instead. I just moved 2 months ago so I'm still trying to learn about all the schools here and I have no advisor or mentor or anything. I know no one in the medical field personally and I don't have an undergrad advisor anymore (not that they're always right....) so I have no one to ask except for SDN. I would love some more feedback from you knowledgeable people.

Do med schools ever have advisors that will talk to premeds and give advice?

First: if you search for the 2015 AMCAS application instruction manual and the 2015 AACOMAS application instruction manual you can compare the policies side by side.

1) Yes, AACOMAS calculates your GPAs differently than AMCAS. This refers to both content (math included in science GPA for AMCAS vs. not included in science GPA for AACOMAS) and grade replacement policies.
2)AACOMAS offers full grade replacement, provided that the content and credit hours are identical, whereas AMCAS averages the two grades. (A replaces C in AACOMAS; A+C=B in AMCAS.) Again, this is a rough generalization. You have to ensure that the credit hours match 1:1. There are some nuances here; search for the AACOMAS instruction manual and read through it.
3)Check your undergraduate institution prior to seeking advising from a medical school. They offer these services to alumni (I know from personal experience). A lot of your questions can be answered by them.
4)There are plenty of individuals that take/retake courses at community colleges. That isn't a huge deal. You have to make the decision that is best for you.

Nothing is certain in life...except death and taxes, of course. Numbers may get you an interview but it does not necessarily make you a lock for matriculation.

 

[noleknight16]

I'm confused now. I've seen other threads that said AMCAS averages the grades (meaning if you get a C the first time and an A in a repeat, they'll give you a B). That means they don't just add the new class. This makes a slight difference in the final GPA. Can anyone verify which one is correct? I just looked through the AMCAS instruction manual and it doesn't talk about how it calculates GPAs with repeated courses. I couldn't find an exact answer anywhere. Maybe I'm not searching for the right thing.

My concern now is that if I do somehow manage to get a interview at an MD school, I feel like they would ask me why I retook 4 courses that I didn't fail when I could've taken 4 new courses to increase my GPA even more. Obviously the answer is that this way it increases my AACOMAS GPA significantly but I don't think they would like that answer.

However, I did the math and my AACOMAS cGPA with the 4 retakes (all As) would be 3.55 and by sGPA would be 3.42. WOW those are beautiful numbers to me. Those would be competitive, right? My AMCAS cGPA would be 3.46 and sGPA 3.30 (assuming repeated grades are averaged and not added as a new class). Those are better than what I have now but still need a boost for MD schools. I feel like going the retake route would almost lock me in for sure for DO schools and that scares me. Not sure why.

What do you guys think about taking the classes at a CC? Should I avoid it (let's assume the course descriptions are the same)? It would be SO much cheaper to do it there than at the university extension where I was planning to take courses this fall (a different school than my undergrad - I just moved to a different state). The extension offers cell bio and genetics this fall only in the far away campuses from me (over 1 hr drive) or online. I really don't think I want to take online classes! However, maybe I could take gen chem 1 and 2 this fall semester and it'd be at the campus location that's a much more doable drive. Keep in mind I'm also studying for my MCAT this fall so I think I only want to take 2 classes. Otherwise, I would've taken all 4 at once. Next semester I plan to take 4 classes.

If you have Physics 1 lecture on the transcript and its a C and a retake the Physics 1 lecture with an A, both will be involved in the calculation and 3CH each of an A and a C turn into a 3.0 GPA with 6CH. Maybe I am wrong, but that's how I understand it.

Honestly you'd have to murder the MCAT to be competitive for the MD schools with those retake numbers (and that's under best case scenario conditions). I say retake at a CC, aim for DO, and let your MCAT do the talking for medical schools. If you kill the MCAT, that will show you know the material regardless of where you took it from. Plus it is way cheaper, which would be a good reason to go CC if asked in an interview or something.

 

[optimistic3]

First: if you search for the 2015 AMCAS application instruction manual and the 2015 AACOMAS application instruction manual you can compare the policies side by side.

1) Yes, AACOMAS calculates your GPAs differently than AMCAS. This refers to both content (math included in science GPA for AMCAS vs. not included in science GPA for AACOMAS) and grade replacement policies.
2)AACOMAS offers full grade replacement, provided that the content and credit hours are identical, whereas AMCAS averages the two grades. (A replaces C in AACOMAS; A+C=B in AMCAS.) Again, this is a rough generalization. You have to ensure that the credit hours match 1:1. There are some nuances here; search for the AACOMAS instruction manual and read through it.
3)Check your undergraduate institution prior to seeking advising from a medical school. They offer these services to alumni (I know from personal experience). A lot of your questions can be answered by them.
4)There are plenty of individuals that take/retake courses at community colleges. That isn't a huge deal. You have to make the decision that is best for you.

Nothing is certain in life...except death and taxes, of course. Numbers may get you an interview but it does not necessarily make you a lock for matriculation.

Thank you so much for your advice. AACOMAS says the repeat course must have the same or more credits but not less. In that case, do they count the original credit number or the newer one if it's more? Cell bio, gen chem 1, and gen chem 2 are 5 credits at the CC here but were only 3 when I took them originally at my university. I guess this is because they include a lab. I want to retake just the lectures and not the labs so I'm not sure if that would even count as a retake! That scares me. I don't want to waste time and money to have something not properly count as a retake. It's too bad that they don't have a system to tell you yet. They could easily make an online database of all the class repeats that they have accepted from which institutions so you can look up if it's been properly done before.

It seems like the extension courses are most similar to my original classes so maybe I should take those (lectures and labs are separate so I can just retake the lecture). Bye bye a few thousand dollars : (

I think I have I finally reached neurotic pre-med status. I swear I was never here before.

 

[optimistic3]

If you have Physics 1 lecture on the transcript and its a C and a retake the Physics 1 lecture with an A, both will be involved in the calculation and 3CH each of an A and a C turn into a 3.0 GPA with 6CH. Maybe I am wrong, but that's how I understand it.

Honestly you'd have to murder the MCAT to be competitive for the MD schools with those retake numbers (and that's under best case scenario conditions). I say retake at a CC, aim for DO, and let your MCAT do the talking for medical schools. If you kill the MCAT, that will show you know the material regardless of where you took it from. Plus it is way cheaper, which would be a good reason to go CC if asked in an interview or something.

You know, I keep finding different threads on SDN saying both. AMCAS instruction manual just says both grades will be counted but I feel like that's a little vague. In both methods, they both count. It makes about a 0.5 gpa difference for me but I'm not going to worry about it too much right now.

I don't think I can murder the MCAT, honestly. I think can do fairly well but I'm not expecting anything over 30. I still have a lot more studying to do so I'm not really predicting a certain score just yet. It's still up in the air.

I guess I have to just bite the bullet and hope for the best at this point. Just pick some classes and go with it.

 

[adriano710]

I'm confused now. I've seen other threads that said AMCAS averages the grades (meaning if you get a C the first time and an A in a repeat, they'll give you a B). That means they don't just add the new class. This makes a slight difference in the final GPA. Can anyone verify which one is correct? I just looked through the AMCAS instruction manual and it doesn't talk about how it calculates GPAs with repeated courses. I couldn't find an exact answer anywhere. Maybe I'm not searching for the right thing.

My concern now is that if I do somehow manage to get a interview at an MD school, I feel like they would ask me why I retook 4 courses that I didn't fail when I could've taken 4 new courses to increase my GPA even more. Obviously the answer is that this way it increases my AACOMAS GPA significantly but I don't think they would like that answer.

However, I did the math and my AACOMAS cGPA with the 4 retakes (all As) would be 3.55 and by sGPA would be 3.42. WOW those are beautiful numbers to me. Those would be competitive, right? My AMCAS cGPA would be 3.46 and sGPA 3.30 (assuming repeated grades are averaged and not added as a new class). Those are better than what I have now but still need a boost for MD schools. I feel like going the retake route would almost lock me in for sure for DO schools and that scares me. Not sure why.

What do you guys think about taking the classes at a CC? Should I avoid it (let's assume the course descriptions are the same)? It would be SO much cheaper to do it there than at the university extension where I was planning to take courses this fall (a different school than my undergrad - I just moved to a different state). The extension offers cell bio and genetics this fall only in the far away campuses from me (over 1 hr drive) or online. I really don't think I want to take online classes! However, maybe I could take gen chem 1 and 2 this fall semester and it'd be at the campus location that's a much more doable drive. Keep in mind I'm also studying for my MCAT this fall so I think I only want to take 2 classes. Otherwise, I would've taken all 4 at once. Next semester I plan to take 4 classes.

Yes, I do understand this. Maybe I'm not understanding how AMCAS calculates grade retakes. I'm reading the instruction manual right now and what I'm getting from it is that when you retake it, it just counts as another class. If so, then retaking a C class would affect my GPA exactly the same as taking a new class (assuming I get the same grade and they are worth the same amount of credits). However for DO, it would completely replace my previous C. Is that correct?

If that's the case, then I should definitely retake my C classes. I guess I was misunderstanding it before.

Correct, therefore, retaking a course will help for MD and DO, but more so for DO

 

[noleknight16]

You know, I keep finding different threads on SDN saying both. AMCAS instruction manual just says both grades will be counted but I feel like that's a little vague. In both methods, they both count. It makes about a 0.5 gpa difference for me but I'm not going to worry about it too much right now.

I don't think I can murder the MCAT, honestly. I think can do fairly well but I'm not expecting anything over 30. I still have a lot more studying to do so I'm not really predicting a certain score just yet. It's still up in the air.

I guess I have to just bite the bullet and hope for the best at this point. Just pick some classes and go with it.

I would be realistic and shoot for DO. Retake all C or less core classes and anything else you think you can ace at your local CC.

If you need any motivation, I raised my science GPA from a 2.8 to a 3.5 during my self-directed post-bac. It can be done. Good luck man.

 

[optimistic3]

I would be realistic and shoot for DO. Retake all C or less core classes and anything else you think you can ace at your local CC.

If you need any motivation, I raised my science GPA from a 2.8 to a 3.5 during my self-directed post-bac. It can be done. Good luck man.

Wow, that's a huge improvement. Good for you!

I think I've decided to take 2 retakes this semester then 2 retakes + 2 new classes next semester. Now I just have to figure out if they'll be properly counted as a repeat. It looks like gen chem at CCs here all include the lab and I don't need that. At my original school, I only got a C in the lectures and got an A and B in the labs so I just want to retake the lectures. Otherwise it's almost $900 per class at the university extension. They offer just the lecture separately so it seems like a better fit for a replacement but that hurts me to think of how much it'll all cost.

 

[pericardium]

If your focus is DO, I would advise you to focus on the MCAT right now more than anything, since it's what could make or break your application at this point. Your GPA is acceptable so long as you can pull off a 29+. As for MD, retaking is a bit of an exercise in futility and even then, as mentioned in posts above, you will have to murder the MCAT 35+ to have a chance.

 

[optimistic3]

If your focus is DO, I would advise you to focus on the MCAT right now more than anything, since it's what could make or break your application at this point. Your GPA is acceptable so long as you can pull off a 29+. As for MD, retaking is a bit of an exercise in futility and even then, as mentioned in posts above, you will have to murder the MCAT 35+ to have a chance.

So are you suggesting I take this semester to solely focus on MCAT studying? That makes me really hesitant because then it looks like I didn't do much this semester. I already have some of that from last year and the year before (it's a very long story that I don't think I need to get into right now).

I still have 2 months of MCAT studying before my test date but I really don't think I can get a 35+! I guess that means DO is more my path and I think I'm ok with that.

 

[pericardium]

If it would help your score, I would suggest you focus solely on the MCAT. Those extra couple classes aren't going to help you as much as a few extra points on the MCAT. If you get a low MCAT score, no adcom's are gonna enjoy hearing about doing poorly because of your busy schedule. On the other hand, a high MCAT score needs no justification and can only help you.

 

[noleknight16]

Wow, that's a huge improvement. Good for you!

I think I've decided to take 2 retakes this semester then 2 retakes + 2 new classes next semester. Now I just have to figure out if they'll be properly counted as a repeat. It looks like gen chem at CCs here all include the lab and I don't need that. At my original school, I only got a C in the lectures and got an A and B in the labs so I just want to retake the lectures. Otherwise it's almost $900 per class at the university extension. They offer just the lecture separately so it seems like a better fit for a replacement but that hurts me to think of how much it'll all cost.

See if you can work something out about the lab portion with the gen chem at CC. They tend to be flexible.