Should I Retake the DAT

[Payam_kim]

I just took the DAT yesteday. While I have two scores that stands out, I have two that don't really look good. here's the breakdown:

PAT 25 (99.8)
QR 16
RC 17
BIO 19
G-CHEM 18
O-CHEM 22
TS 19
AA 18


I'm not gonna talk about the DAT in detail like the other guys, but I'll give you some advices.

QR: listen to the other DSNers. I wish I had done this. if a question looks complicated and may take you 2 min to do it, make a guess, mark it and move on to the easier ones down the road(numerical q's). if you have time by the end of the test, come back and try to solve them. I spent too much time on 3-4 word problems and at the end, I was left with 30 sec and 5 super easy questions.
BIO: don't spend too much time on Kaplan BIO, 80% of Kaplan book is not going to be on the test. read the book twice, and move on to the destroyer. btw, not that I like the destroyer price, but there were couple questions exactly like destroyer. also, one of the questions was a picture and said which of the following is this. (weird)
G-chem: again, don't spend too much time on practice tests with lots of calculations. they're just time consuming, and you won't use them on the test.
PAT: my weakspot was angle ranking and I came up with this strategy during the test: if you can't see difference between two agnles, close your eyes for 2 seconds, when you open you'll see it right away. I used to get like 18-19 on topscore.

so, now I need your help to decide whether to retake it because of the low scores on QR and RC. the reason I got low score on RC is that I've been speaking English for only 4 years. I'm never gonna be able to read as fast as native speakers.

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[Payam_kim]

two other things that no one ever mentioned:

on the RC, you can't jump from one question to the next as fast as topscore. It looks like you're jumping from websites to websites on internet explorer with DSL. Also, every time you change the question, the text goes to the first paragraph. And just like topscore you can highlight a text temporarly.

 

[jay47]

I don't know that these will get you in or not, but what is you GPA and what school do you go to, that may help us in deciding whether we think you should retake or not. Also, contact schools you are interested in and ask them directly, don't just rely on what we predents think. Good luck, Jay

 

[Payam_kim]

all my AADSAS GPA's range from 3.59 to 3.61 and I go to the Univ. of Arizona...

I don't know that these will get you in or not, but what is you GPA and what school do you go to, that may help us in deciding whether we think you should retake or not. Also, contact schools you are interested in and ask them directly, don't just rely on what we predents think. Good luck, Jay

 

[jay47]

I think you are good actually, I would think that Dental schools look to see that you are not a native speaker and they take that into consideration. That is definitely why you didn't do so well on the RC, but your other scores are slightly above average. Like I said, the choice is ultimately up to you, but I would stick with that score.

 

[Payam_kim]

thanks Jay, that's relief for now!

 

[poc91nc]

I think you are good actually, I would think that Dental schools look to see that you are not a native speaker and they take that into consideration. That is definitely why you didn't do so well on the RC, but your other scores are slightly above average. Like I said, the choice is ultimately up to you, but I would stick with that score.

I think international students and non-native speakers have MORE to prove than native speakers.

Their English skills (if they're from a non-english speaking country) are going to be questionable. So, they have more to prove in my opinion. According to adcoms...skills, as measured by the RC, are important...

Don't you think it's easier to brush off a 16 for a native speaker as simply having a bad day vs. a 16 for a non-native speaker (who's skills are already questionable)?

I don't mean to be rude or anything, but that's how I see it.


To the OP: You can definitely improve in the sciences. A TS of 21 or 22 is easily doable. If you decide to retake, the science are definitely one area you can improve on.

 

[littlemissy]

rc and qr and ur low points. you do have high points in pat and organic and ur other scores are mediocore. so does the good overshadow the bad ...not sure. i would say maybe at some schools but u are only at an 18 aa. so i think i would reake if it were me. good luck

 

[cuttiedentist]

I think you did fine. dont worry about it, and dont care too much about what people say. none of us are in admission committies and really know whats going on. do what you think is the best for you
good luck anyway

I think international students and non-native speakers have MORE to prove than native speakers.

Their English skills (if they're from a non-english speaking country) are going to be questionable. So, they have more to prove in my opinion. According to adcoms...skills, as measured by the RC, are important...

Don't you think it's easier to brush off a 16 for a native speaker as simply having a bad day vs. a 16 for a non-native speaker (who's skills are already questionable)?

I don't mean to be rude or anything, but that's how I see it.


To the OP: You can definitely improve in the sciences. A TS of 21 or 22 is easily doable. If you decide to retake, the science are definitely one area you can improve on.

hey Poc91 i dont think that non native speakers skills are already questionable. where are you from? have you ever been studying in a foreign language in a foreign country? i dont think so. if you were you wouldnt be talking like this. you know what it takes to study for a non native speaker? i know. Im a non native speaker myself, been to US for 4 years, UCLA undergraduate science major and I have 3.9 in both science and non science and im also not doing well in my RC, but I dont think my skills are questionable.
my guess is you are a native speaker and you got an 18 on your RC. what does that show? I dont mean to be rude either, but I dont think its nice to talk to someone who is already under alot of stress like that.

 

[poc91nc]

I think you did fine. dont worry about it, and dont care too much about what people say. none of us are in admission committies and really know whats going on. do what you think is the best for you
good luck anyway



hey Poc91 i dont think that non native speakers skills are already questionable. where are you from? have you ever been studying in a foreign language in a foreign country? i dont think so. if you were you wouldnt be talking like this. you know what it takes to study for a non native speaker? i know. Im a non native speaker myself, been to US for 4 years, UCLA undergraduate science major and I have 3.9 in both science and non science and im also not doing well in my RC, but I dont think my skills are questionable.
my guess is you are a native speaker and you got an 18 on your RC. what does that show? I dont mean to be rude either, but I dont think its nice to talk to someone who is already under alot of stress like that.

Sorry if you're offended. I just think that if you're an international student (not from a scandinavian country or non-english speaking country) you're going to be under the microscope a bit more.

Yes, I got an 18 on my RC. Am I proud of it? No, but it doesn't change the fact that I think an international student has more to prove. In other words, I think you should be held to the same standard as everyone else on the RC section. Just b/c you're an international student doesn't mean you get any slack.

That's what I was trying to say...if you're still offended by what I said, well, there's nothing I can do about it.

Good luck to you. I don't mean any harm.

 

[cuttiedentist]

Sorry if you're offended. I just think that if you're an international student (not from a scandinavian country or non-english speaking country) you're going to be under the microscope a bit more.

Yes, I got an 18 on my RC. Am I proud of it? No, but it doesn't change the fact that I think an international student has more to prove. In other words, I think you should be held to the same standard as everyone else on the RC section. Just b/c you're an international student doesn't mean you get any slack.

That's what I was trying to say...if you're still offended by what I said, well, there's nothing I can do about it.

Good luck to you. I don't mean any harm.

I'm not harmed at all and I dont want to fight over something that non of us exactly know about. everybody is free to have his/her own opinion. all i'm saying is please don't add stress to somebody's feelings. all of us are stressed enough.
peace

 

[Payam_kim]

thanks for all the comments. they really help. I accept the fact that my English skills are "questionable", but I hope I can cover that with higher score on other parts. I'm going to listen to jay47 and call couple of dental schools to see what they say.

just one thought, don't you guys think natives' English skills are more questionable than international students. I took the first writing class with native English speakers. The average score on the mechanic test was 60, while I was the only person in class who got the perfect score. Everyone in the class complained that the test was too hard and we should talk to dean!?!?!

 

[poc91nc]

thanks for all the comments. they really help. I accept the fact that my English skills are "questionable", but I hope I can cover that with higher score on other parts. I'm going to listen to jay47 and call couple of dental schools to see what they say.

just one thought, don't you guys think natives' English skills are more questionable than international students. I took the first writing class with native English speakers. The average score on the mechanic test was 60, while I was the only person in class who got the perfect score. Everyone in the class complained that the test was too hard and we should talk to dean!?!?!

Well you need more to go by than that. How about starting off w/ SAT verbal scores.

I mean, I just assume that the english skills of a native speaker would be better than that of someone from a non-english speaking country (this would exclude most scandinavian countries, india, and so on).

I will admit that treatment of syntax is better in most countries than the US, but that's just the tip of the ice berg. How about composition skills?

If I'm wrong I'm wrong...sorry, but it just seems more intuitive that's all.

 

[BodybldgDoc]

it doesn't change the fact that I think an international student has more to prove. In other words, I think you should be held to the same standard as everyone else on the RC section. Just b/c you're an international student doesn't mean you get any slack.

I agree with this.

 

[sacjumpman]

Sorry if you're offended. I just think that if you're an international student (not from a scandinavian country or non-english speaking country) you're going to be under the microscope a bit more.

Yes, I got an 18 on my RC. Am I proud of it? No, but it doesn't change the fact that I think an international student has more to prove. In other words, I think you should be held to the same standard as everyone else on the RC section. Just b/c you're an international student doesn't mean you get any slack.

That's what I was trying to say...if you're still offended by what I said, well, there's nothing I can do about it.

Good luck to you. I don't mean any harm.

I agree with Poc on this one.

Not meaning to offend anyone either, but it is my opinion that non-native essentially have something to prove.

I agree not to stress the OP out, but he probably wants our honest opinion, and not anything sugar coated.

The usual disclaimer: don't listen to us predents and call around to schools and ask what they think....

 

[SupderDuper]

I was reading this thread, and couldn't help to share my opinion with you

I, too, am a non-native speaker. I've been in the states for about 7 years now (I am an immigrant). With that said, here is what I think.

I completely agree with all the users who are saying non-native speakers do have more to prove, in terms of the ability to effectively comprehend/communicate in English. I am not saying that these students should be subjected to higher standards or cutoff scores. I am saying that these students should be compared to the native-speaking students at the same level.

Personally, I would love to have dental schools looking at my RC score (I haven't taken the DAT yet, so I still have my fingers crossed) and cut me some slack, but I believe that this is simply not fair to the native students.

If you are a bright student but cannot communicate with your peers, faculty members, and your patients, I am not so sure whether you would be successful in the field.

I don't mean to offend anyone, so please don't take me in the wrong way.

 

[Payam_kim]

that's totally right. it wouldn't be fair for native speakers. but I have no problem communicating with English speakers. I sell used cars, and I usually beat everyone else if I'm working full-time. Also when I read bio and other science books I usually don't have to go back and reread the text. I used to get 19-21 on the practice tests. On the day the test, there was alot of stress and I paniced. here's what happened during the test, maybe you guys can help me improve:

I didn't use the kaplan or Barron's method when I practiced. I would take 3-4 min to go over questions first, write keywords with q# on the board and then move on to the text. whenever I see one of those keywords, I would go to the question and try to find the answer. but that didn't work on the actual test. I did this on the first part of it and it took me 22 min to do it, plus I had to make guesses for few of them. so for the second part, I used the Barron's method. but that didn't work either. For the last part, I read the first 2 paragraphs to get some ideas about the subject and started skimming the rest of the text. it took 4-5 min to go over the whole text. I was left with about 12 min to do the questions, and I could find the answers easiliy. because I finished the text very fast I knew where each keyword was.
I was doing well until I saw that, it's been 22 min and there is 3 unanswered questions left from the first part. So I started panicking. Beleive it or not, it affected my QR bc I was thinking about RC the whole time and how I messed it up.

 

[lilietta2000]

If you are a bright student but cannot communicate with your peers, faculty members, and your patients, I am not so sure whether you would be successful in the field.

I don't mean to offend anyone, so please don't take me in the wrong way.

Right... but the true question is if RC on DAT truly reflects one's ability to communicate...if one is a fast reader and has good command of vocabulary ,does that make one a good communicator? or a compassionate caregiver who can comprehend and relate to patients, staff and peers?

Just something to think about......

 

[schmick]

I think you should be held to the same standard as everyone else on the RC section. Just b/c you're an international student doesn't mean you get any slack.

I agree with that. That's why I don't think a low score for a native speaker could be explained with "having a bad day". The same excuse goes for a non-native speaker.

Does the RC section has anything to do with fluency in the language? Absolutely not. There are so many other better tests that evaluate language skills. If a person scored a 22 on Bio or any of the other sciences, a score of 14 at RC doesn't mean anything. Apparently the person has demonstrated they can read and comprehend complex material. Poor reading skills will reflect on science scores and GPA. If adcoms want to evaluate a person's ability to express their thoughts verbally, then they have an opportunity to do that at the interview.


@ OP: I think your scores are good. Your QR is leaning to the lower end but then it appears this has been the trend this cycle. Apply to a good number of schools and you'll get some interviews, given you have a solid application. Then ace those interviews and you are in.

 

[poc91nc]

I agree with that. That's why I don't think a low score for a native speaker could be explained with "having a bad day". The same excuse goes for a non-native speaker.

Does the RC section has anything to do with fluency in the language? Absolutely not. There are so many other better tests that evaluate language skills. If a person scored a 22 on Bio or any of the other sciences, a score of 14 at RC doesn't mean anything. Apparently the person has demonstrated they can read and comprehend complex material. Poor reading skills will reflect on science scores and GPA. If adcoms want to evaluate a person's ability to express their thoughts verbally, then they have an opportunity to do that at the interview.


@ OP: I think your scores are good. Your QR is leaning to the lower end but then it appears this has been the trend this cycle. Apply to a good number of schools and you'll get some interviews, given you have a solid application. Then ace those interviews and you are in.

Right, I agree with that as well. The whole thing about the "bad day"...didn't mean to contradict myself. I was just saying that it would be easier to generalize. I mean...people generalize all the time. Adcoms are humans as well. Even though their evaluation techniques are probably as objective as you can get, I'm sure there are some biases along the way.

It's just that a non-native speaker should be ready for those types of generalizations and biases. So, during their preparation, they should mentally set the bar a bit higher.

But, again, all things being equal....EVERYONE SHOULD BE HELD TO THE SAME STANDARDS. NO EXCEPTIONS!