Should I settle or wait for acceptance to dream vet school??

[Chillbo Baggins]

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Doing some research, I found firsthand accounts on SDN about declining and reapplying. It turns out there are a decent number of success stories, but also are those people who never get back in. Here's a post by @Escalla that showcases both sides of the coin.

FWIW, I was faced with something similar. Accepted to KState OOS, it was my only acceptance and I was left wondering if I really wanted to take on $44k/yr in a different country. I decided that I would regret it and tearfully turned down vet school for a year and re-tried in Canada where tuition is $10k/yr.

It's a gamble and there's risk. Someone I worked with applied to both Canadian schools that we are eligible for quite a few years ago....got accepted to her second choice....decided she didn't want to uproot and turned it down to keep trying at the school in our city...many applications later, she still hasn't been accepted. Even reapplying to the original school years later didn't net anything. So it does not always work out, but it's not impossible. I don't regret my decision for a second and while I spent a year doubting everything and constantly thinking about how I could have been in vet school....I couldn't be happier now.

 

[DVMDream]

Sure, she may never get into UGA, I never said she would, but she might still find another school she likes better than Western if she reapplies. Why should she settle for Western if she really doesn't want to go there?

I am not sure if reading comprehension is just not a strong point for you or if you just like to go completely off topic. You probably have no idea what I am even talking about but let's look at a couple of things.

1. The thread title, "
Should I settle or wait for acceptance to dream vet school??"

Ok, so the thread title says it well.... settle or wait for acceptance to dream school... NOT settle and apply to 5 other schools and see if I get in anywhere else. It is discussing declining an acceptance to apply to one specific school in order to hopefully be accepted.

Let's look at another thing... The OP's original post:

The CVM at the University of Georgia is my dream school! However, my undergrad GPA is less than competitive for an OOS applicant at UGA, but I do have a lot of varied experience and decent LORs.

Anyway, I was accepted at Western University and have accepted the offer. I've been having doubts lately because I would be so incredibly happy at UGA for many different reasons.

I know that a DVM is a DVM regardless of where it's from in the U.S. (or other U.S.-accredited schools). I was just wondering if I could get some feedback from someone else in a similar situation.. should I settle… or apply again to my dream school and risk the chance of not getting in and have to wait another year or even more to start vet school

Thank you so much!

I bolded the key points. Again, the OP is asking about settling on Western or declining and applying to, specifically, UGA. Not to other schools.

Getting

a previous acceptance may not guarantee other acceptances, but by the mere virtue of being accepted, there is strong information to suggest that the application submitted was competitive to a certain level and there is no reason to believe that such a person could not meet the criteria of other schools and be successful again, especially after multiple cycles (I don't care if that acceptance was at one school or another). There may be occasional upsets, but the overall process is not as unpredictable as you make it sound.

Ok, I am going to assume you know this, since you claim to have applied before, but every school has different criteria. Every school has different acceptance rates and stats. Every school is looking for something, it may or may not be similar to what another school is looking for. IF what you say is true and that an acceptance at one school should indicate high success at another... why is it that people who apply to say 6 or 7 schools a cycle sometimes only get a single acceptance? Obviously one school found them to be competitive, so what is wrong with the others? Again you are comparing apples to oranges... or getting a good grade in chemistry to predictive of the grade you will get in physics. You can't do that. Basic science processes... you can't compare two unlike things and make a prediction based upon the outcome of one of them.

The other thing that needs to be pointed out is average acceptance stats at each school....

Western Stats:

Average Overall GPA: 3.29
Average Prerequisite GPA: 3.40
Average Prerequisite Science GPA: 3.26

Georgia Stats:

Average Cumulative GPA (same as overall): 3.63
Average Science GPA: 3.5
Average Last 45 hour GPA: 3.61

So, you can already begin to see that UGA has higher average stats than Western does. So, being a competitive and good applicant for Western does NOT guarantee that you will be for UGA. Even if you had a 3.9, the schools do factor in the types of people that they feel will fit in well with the other students that they are accepting.

Let's add to this further...

Western does not distinguish between IS and OOS applicants.... so 839 applications were received (according to their stats on the website) one year... 105 students were accepted... your chance of acceptance... ~13%

UGA does distinguish between IS and OOS.... their stats.... 502 OOS applicants, 13 (more than I thought, but I recalled it being low) were accepted... your chances... ~3%

I get that is a very, very rough estimate, and there will be some varying factors there... but still, it gives you a really good overview as to why people are saying that the OP has a slim chance in gaining acceptance to UGA.

There is more to it than just "oh you got in at one school, surely another school will find you competitive." No, it is not that simple. Every school has a different process for reviewing applicants and every school has different acceptance rates, especially when comparing OOS students.

Show me someone who was accepted, declined his/her offer, and was never able to get another acceptance, despite trying.

See the post by Chillbo. There was also an older gentleman at my undergrad that was accepted many years prior.. he declined and tried again. I think he was on his 8th application cycle when I met him. Something around there. No, I don't have proof of this, but it does happen.

Do you really think it's magic? When did I suggest that she only apply to UGA and only be content with a UGA acceptance?

Really, it's not your time or money. It’s not your effort. Why are you so convinced it will take her so long to get another acceptance or even an acceptance at her dream school? You believe that admissions are unpredictable.

As students looking in on the outside, admissions are seemingly unpredictable. I am sure the schools have a well-run, well-oiled way of handling applications and acceptances, but on the outside it can appear largely unpredictable. If you don't think that someone being waitlisted one year after interview and the following year not even being invited to interview is unpredictable, then I have nothing further to say. There is no way you or I could have predicted that outcome. None. Zero. You are doing the same thing now. Trying to use a person's prior acceptance as prediction of a future acceptance, and you are attempting to do so without even 1. reading the thread (or maybe you just chose to ignore the UGA part) 2. Without knowing all of the information (the OP finds herself/himself to have a less than competitive GPA for UGA admissions, so that should tell you something right there) 3. That Western and UGA have very different acceptance rates/criteria/evaluations.

For what conceivable purpose would an admissions committee seek out that knowledge and then ask about previous acceptances to other veterinary schools?

They won't. You are being paranoid.

If they want to know about your commitment to vet med, they can choose to ask you questions about your commitment to vet med - like in an interview.

For the record, nothing pertaining to vet school acceptances has appeared on the VMCAS for the last two cycles, of that I am 100% sure. I can even check to see if anything will show up for this upcoming cycle (at least on the test system), but I have the feeling that will not change because it is irrelevant information.

They do ask about previous application cycles. This is not me being paranoid. I was asked at every interview my second and third year applying about the previous application cycles. I was also asked further what I did to improve my application in the time between cycles. It is a very common question asked at interviews. If you have applied more than once, you can just about guarantee that they will have some question for you about it.

I wish that were true, but I've seen this come up multiple times on these boards and in discussions with other pre-vet students at my own institution. People have very strong reactions to this topic and it's because there are those who feel it is inappropriate and that people should "be grateful" for any acceptance. It is unthinkable to many that someone would say "no" and throw themselves back into an application cycle. Even you seem wary of it, DVMDream, why else would you be so worried of admissions people finding out and punishing someone? It's not an action specifically prohibited by any school, the AVMA, or any other organizations that cater to veterinary students. Why would you worry?

I am not at all worried. It isn't me. It isn't my decision and it isn't my application. I can, however, guarantee that if for whatever reason a vet school finds out you were accepted previously and declined they will want to know why. I don't at all find it unthinkable for someone to say "no". Again, I was one of the few people on this thread telling the OP that if there is something about Western that makes them completely uncomfortable that they feel they could not be there for 4 years to not accept the offer. I know there are reasons behind not accepting an offer, but simply doing so just to try again at your dream school can have some serious consequences (not saying the other schools will punish the OP, just there can be consequences). There is a chance (and considering the school the OP is wanting to go to) a very likely chance that she may never be accepted. Declining an acceptance is not prohibited, nor did anyone suggest that it was, but there is a possibility of the school hearing about it and you will have to explain your reasoning behind why you declined. One of the first thoughts the school is going to have seeing a decline is (should they find out), "Did this student decline because they weren't ready? Did this student begin to have doubts about vet med?" These are legitimate questions that you really don't want a vet school admissions committee thinking about.

I agree that people need to understand there are consequences in turning down an acceptance like this and you might not get in on the rebound, but I don't agree with some of the consequences you're suggesting and I certainly don't believe that someone who wants to go to vet school is really wasting their money or time applying again and again.

Ok, this last bit is just absurd. Sure, I don't think someone who wants to go to vet school and has been applying and never been accepted before is wasting their money applying a few years in a row (within reason)... I did it. I do feel like I spent a crap ton of money though, a waste, no, but it was still a lot of time and a lot of money.

Now, a person that was previously accepted who in 4 years time could have been making ~50,000/year working (low estimate) but instead declined their acceptance to reapply is wasting money and time. Nobody knows how much time it would take that student to be accepted... let's say 3 years... so they applied to vet school 3 more years.. each year spending ~$200.. that is $600. In that 3 years, tuition of vet school has also increased so now they have to take out more student loan money for vet school.

Now had this student accepted the offer right off... they would not have spent the $600 to apply, they would not have to pay more in student loan money over the 4 years of school and they would have 3 years of making $50,000/year (and only if they don't get a raise in any of those 3 years). They will have also had those 3 years to start paying on the loans.

Now, that is a waste of time (you could have been done in 4 years instead of 7) as well as money (application fees, tuition increases, no income from vet job).

So to say that applying again and again, year after year after you have already been accepted is not a waste of time or money is just absurd. It will be spending more time and more money and considering where you could have been, it is a waste. Obviously, the OP is the one who has to decide if it is worth it to them, to spend the extra time and money just to be in the position they are already currently in.

Making people aware of the full consequences of their decisions is very important and something like what the OP is talking about should not be brushed under a broad stroke of "well you were accepted once, so it will happen again". No, there is zero guarantee that it will and if you really pull apart all of the finer details then you begin to see the entire picture and realize just exactly what the OP is up against. Making broad generalizations, not reading the thread thoroughly and not actually researching the schools that the OP is discussing leads to what you just did... leaving bad advice that you have no ground to stand on. Do some research before actually posting things, because it helps if you know what you are talking about.

 

[that redhead]

You believe that admissions are unpredictable.

Unfortunately, they are. If you review our successful applicants threads or the WAMC thread, you'll see people with very similar stats that get different results. As mentioned, it depends on the applicant pool that year, too, and she may not be competitive against a different crop of people, plain and simple.

 

[BlackDog17]

I'm not sure why this is even an argument. Ensuring that the OP understands there's a risk in putting all her application-eggs into a single basket is not a bad thing. There's much more harm to be done by sugar coating the application process than by being frank about it. And OP has already said that she would rather take the acceptance at Western now that she's had time to think about it, so it sounds like the decision has already been made.

And yes, the process can be unpredictable. I have friends with much better stats than me who applied in the same application cycle and didn't even get an interview at AVC, while I was accepted. And I was rejected without interview from the schools that they were accepted to. If being accepted and one school was a guarantee that you'd be competitive at all schools, then certain applicants would be accepted to every school they apply to, and that just doesn't happen. If you read the stats for accepted students, even the most competitive applicants get rejected from one or two schools each cycle. Each school values different things in their applicants, and often it's not clear why a school will choose one applicant over another. You have to learn to recognize the strengths and weaknesses in your application and be honest with yourself about whether you have a reasonable chance of being accepted at the school you're interested in. Encouraging people to be smart about the way they apply is good advice, plain and simple.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

1. The thread title, "
Should I settle or wait for acceptance to dream vet school??"

Ok, so the thread title says it well.... settle or wait for acceptance to dream school... NOT settle and apply to 5 other schools and see if I get in anywhere else. It is discussing declining an acceptance to apply to one specific school in order to hopefully be accepted.

Let's look at another thing... The OP's original post:

I bolded the key points. Again, the OP is asking about settling on Western or declining and applying to, specifically, UGA. Not to other schools.

Exactly.

If we were talking about an applicant with an acceptance who wanted to re-apply again to a lot of other schools in an attempt to get into one she is more suited to (or a more inexpensive one), I would be more sympathetic. But reapplying just in the hopes of getting into ONE specific school is risky.

 

[Rabbit Riot]

Ok, I am going to assume you know this, since you claim to have applied before, but every school has different criteria. Every school has different acceptance rates and stats. Every school is looking for something, it may or may not be similar to what another school is looking for. IF what you say is true and that an acceptance at one school should indicate high success at another... why is it that people who apply to say 6 or 7 schools a cycle sometimes only get a single acceptance? Obviously one school found them to be competitive, so what is wrong with the others? Again you are comparing apples to oranges....

I would argue that there are more similarities in how schools choose applicants than there are differences. The basic criteria are nearly universal, hence why most schools use VMCAS to collect the information. Where schools differ in their selection processes are details students need to make themselves aware of, like how much favor is give to in-state or how much weight is given to GPA or GRE, but that doesn't eliminate the ability to make predictions based on a small subset of information (these forums even have a whole section dedicated to this in the "What are my chances?" thread).

So, you can already begin to see that UGA has higher average stats than Western does. So, being a competitive and good applicant for Western does NOT guarantee that you will be for UGA. Even if you had a 3.9, the schools do factor in the types of people that they feel will fit in well with the other students that they are accepting

Who keeps guaranteeing anything? How have you perceived any of my comments as guarantees? My comments are encouragements given to someone who is being told that not only may she never get into UGA , but if she turns down her acceptance to Western, she may never get into another veterinary school, ever again. That is not the most statistically likely outcome and you know that. While it's fair to mention what other outcomes exist, focusing heavily on the doom and gloom side is just a lot of peer shaming masquerading as concern. If she never got that acceptance and was just another repeat applicant, she would be getting all kinds of encouragements and personal anecdotes about "staying the course" and "going for her dream." What's different?

My comments are below. Please point out the guarantees.

... but, if you've managed to get admitted, a feat many people did not accomplish this year, I would think you have a pretty good chance of being accepted somewhere else in the future - though it still may not be your desired school and that's a bridge you'll have to cross when you come to it.

While the formula may vary among schools, the likelihood of at least one future success seems pretty high

Let's add to this further...

Western does not distinguish between IS and OOS applicants.... so 839 applications were received (according to their stats on the website) one year... 105 students were accepted... your chance of acceptance... ~13%

UGA does distinguish between IS and OOS.... their stats.... 502 OOS applicants, 13 (more than I thought, but I recalled it being low) were accepted... your chances... ~3%

There is more to it than just "oh you got in at one school, surely another school will find you competitive." No, it is not that simple. Every school has a different process for reviewing applicants and every school has different acceptance rates, especially when comparing OOS students.

You assume she would remain OOS and not do very obvious things that will improve her chances of getting into that school, her dream school. Like:

Establish residency in Georgia, 71/249 -> 28.5%
Establish residency in one of UGA's contract schools:
Delaware, 1/7 -> 14.3%
South Carolina, 17/76 ->22.3%

The OP doesn't really exclude the possibility of other schools. She has a dream school she wants to attend. She also mentions multiple reasons she is hesitant to accept at Western. Her whole dilemma doesn't begin and end with "Western isn't UGA."

From the OP...

I would in no way be okay with never getting in again...

That is not a comment someone makes when they are unwilling to apply to other schools. Regardless of the thread title, her problem with accepting at Western is more than just about giving up on her dream school.

See the post by Chillbo. There was also an older gentleman at my undergrad that was accepted many years prior.. he declined and tried again. I think he was on his 8th application cycle when I met him. Something around there. No, I don't have proof of this, but it does happen.

... and he was accepted. From Chillbo's post, one person was accepted and the other was still applying. The only people who never get into vet school are those who don't apply and those who stop applying. The OP doesn't seem to be giving up so why believe that she couldn't get in again?

They do ask about previous application cycles. This is not me being paranoid. I was asked at every interview my second and third year applying about the previous application cycles. I was also asked further what I did to improve my application in the time between cycles. It is a very common question asked at interviews. If you have applied more than once, you can just about guarantee that they will have some question for you about it.

Were you asked if you declined previous offers?

What is paranoid is believing that admissions committees have nothing better to do than find out through some cryptic means whether or not an applicant has declined an offer and reapplied to other schools. What is paranoid is believing that these people will use this information to interrogate students in their interviews and make wild speculations about their commitments to vet med because they chose not to attend a specific school.

Asking what previous cycles you've applied and what schools you applied to are different questions and there is no judgment in them.

I can, however, guarantee that if for whatever reason a vet school finds out you were accepted previously and declined they will want to know why. I don't at all find it unthinkable for someone to say "no". Again, I was one of the few people on this thread telling the OP that if there is something about Western that makes them completely uncomfortable that they feel they could not be there for 4 years to not accept the offer.

How can you guarantee that a school would want to know why?

I agree with the advice you gave her. "No" may be the best option for some people.

What I don't like, is that you followed that advice with tales of schools punishing students for the decision you just advised. If that's not a mixed message...

... but simply doing so just to try again at your dream school can have some serious consequences (not saying the other schools will punish the OP, just there can be consequences).

I agree.

There is a chance (and considering the school the OP is wanting to go to) a very likely chance that she may never be accepted.

There is also a chance that she may be accepted to UGA.

Declining an acceptance is not prohibited, nor did anyone suggest that it was, but there is a possibility of the school hearing about it and you will have to explain your reasoning behind why you declined.

How do you know what schools are going to think? Who tells them? For what purpose are they told?

One of the first thoughts the school is going to have seeing a decline is (should they find out), "Did this student decline because they weren't ready? Did this student begin to have doubts about vet med?" These are legitimate questions that you really don't want a vet school admissions committee thinking about.

Aren't those really questions they might ask about every applicant? Is he or she ready? Does this student have doubts about the career?


How can you say this...

So to say that applying again and again, year after year after you have already been accepted is not a waste of time or money is just absurd.

... and this...

Sure, I don't think someone who wants to go to vet school and has been applying and never been accepted before is wasting their money applying a few years in a row (within reason)... I did it. I do feel like I spent a crap ton of money though, a waste, no, but it was still a lot of time and a lot of money.

... and this...

It will be spending more time and more money and considering where you could have been, it is a waste.

... in the same response?

Mixed messages again. Do you really believe the advice you gave to the OP? I'm not convinced.

Making people aware of the full consequences of their decisions is very important and something like what the OP is talking about should not be brushed under a broad stroke of "well you were accepted once, so it will happen again". No, there is zero guarantee that it will and if you really pull apart all of the finer details then you begin to see the entire picture and realize just exactly what the OP is up against.

You don't make people aware of consequences by only fixating on the bad ones.

These are not equal statements.

... but, if you've managed to get admitted... I would think you have a pretty good chance of being accepted somewhere else in the future

"well you were accepted once, so it will happen again"

 

[DVMDream]

I would argue that there are more similarities in how schools choose applicants than there are differences. The basic criteria are nearly universal, hence why most schools use VMCAS to collect the information. Where schools differ in their selection processes are details students need to make themselves aware of, like how much favor is give to in-state or how much weight is given to GPA or GRE, but that doesn't eliminate the ability to make predictions based on a small subset of information (these forums even have a whole section dedicated to this in the "What are my chances?" thread).

Sure, I can tell someone that if they have a 3.9GPA, amazing GRE and great experiences that their chance of acceptance is decent, but that is not saying "you will get in". We can attempt to predict all we want, but I have seen some applications in the accepted applicants stats thread with the stats above I mentioned who were just getting accepted on a third cycle. No, we can not predict what will happen. The first thing people will tell you on here is to quit comparing yourself to others and put the best application of yourself forward because there is no way to predict what will happen. I have been on these forums for years, the process is unpredictable. I can't explain it any better.. .hang around for a few more years and see for yourself because it is obvious that multiple people on this forum telling you repeatedly that the process is unpredictable is not getting it through your head.

Who keeps guaranteeing anything? How have you perceived any of my comments as guarantees? My comments are encouragements given to someone who is being told that not only may she never get into UGA , but if she turns down her acceptance to Western, she may never get into another veterinary school, ever again. That is not the most statistically likely outcome and you know that. While it's fair to mention what other outcomes exist, focusing heavily on the doom and gloom side is just a lot of peer shaming masquerading as concern. If she never got that acceptance and was just another repeat applicant, she would be getting all kinds of encouragements and personal anecdotes about "staying the course" and "going for her dream." What's different?

Actually, no. My recommendation to her, if she had not been accepted at all would be to move. OOS at UGA is so incredibly difficult to get into that it would be of benefit to her to skip a year, move, gain more experience, see how to improve her app and apply again as an IS student. So you are wrong, my encouragement would be to stay the course, but if she really wants UGA, I would recommend move, or suggest looking at some of the other schools as she might be surprised. But good job assuming what people would say.

You might think your comments are encouragements but they are bad pieces of advice given off of having little to no information and not actually reading what the thread was about. While you did not "guarantee" an acceptance, you said her chances were "high", but in reality her chance of acceptance was at 3%... I don't know about you, but that is not my definition of high.

You assume she would remain OOS and not do very obvious things that will improve her chances of getting into that school, her dream school. Like:

Establish residency in Georgia, 71/249 -> 28.5%
Establish residency in one of UGA's contract schools:
Delaware, 1/7 -> 14.3%
South Carolina, 17/76 ->22.3%

The OP doesn't really exclude the possibility of other schools. She has a dream school she wants to attend. She also mentions multiple reasons she is hesitant to accept at Western. Her whole dilemma doesn't begin and end with "Western isn't UGA."

She mentioned that she is OOS and that her stats for OOS at UGA were not competitive. All we can do is comment on the information provided to us. Had she said that she was going to forego Western and try UGA again, I can guarantee that at least I would have mentioned to her to establish residency, but there would have probably been more of us. This isn't my first rodeo around here.

Also, what are her multiple reasons for not Western? I saw two... it isn't UGA and she doesn't think the people in LA will be like her... umm, rather certain everyone covered on both concerns from her. I haven't heard or seen any others from her, so not sure what you are talking about.

From the OP...

That is not a comment someone makes when they are unwilling to apply to other schools. Regardless of the thread title, her problem with accepting at Western is more than just about giving up on her dream school.

First, good job pulling a quote out of context to attempt to use it for your benefit. Not only that, good way of trying to put words into the OP's mouth that she did not actually say... Not a single mention on this thread from the OP does she at all suggest she would apply to other schools... it is about UGA. Not only that, there is not a single post on this thread that suggests her problem with Western is more than just about giving up her dream school (other than the post about her saying she doesn't think people in LA will be like her, but she even figured out that was probably not too accurate as there will be people from all over the world at the school). Please continue to make assumptions about what people are saying with no way to back it up.

... and he was accepted. From Chillbo's post, one person was accepted and the other was still applying. The only people who never get into vet school are those who don't apply and those who stop applying. The OP doesn't seem to be giving up so why believe that she couldn't get in again?

Yeah, another person, accepted prior and still applying... years later... losing money and time each year that passes. Also the same can be said for the guy in my undergrad class (who by the way, never was accepted the 4 years I was in undergrad, he applied all 4 of those years and had been applying for years prior to my meeting him, he wishes he had taken that first acceptance... guess learning the hard way sucks.. huh?)

Also, you are being very hyperbolic.. "Only people who never get in are those who don't apply or stop applying"... ok, first of all, this is called life. This isn't some cute Disney fairy tale where "all your dreams will come true". Guess what, not all dreams come true in real life and the fancy schmancy encouragement quotes like that don't do crap to really help people. You can not continue on with life applying to vet school year after year after year... you eventually need to improve something, move on, or realize (hopefully before 20 years hits) that it isn't going to happen. So the whole bit of "the only people that don't get in are those who don't try or stop trying... " is just absurd, non-realistic talk... might as well add in "or those who die during the process from old age."

Were you asked if you declined previous offers?

What is paranoid is believing that admissions committees have nothing better to do than find out through some cryptic means whether or not an applicant has declined an offer and reapplied to other schools. What is paranoid is believing that these people will use this information to interrogate students in their interviews and make wild speculations about their commitments to vet med because they chose not to attend a specific school.

Asking what previous cycles you've applied and what schools you applied to are different questions and there is no judgment in them.

How can you guarantee that a school would want to know why?

Yes, I was asked about the outcomes of applying in the prior years. I never once stated that the adcoms will use the info to interrogate them, but if you sit in an interview and say, "I was accepted to xxx school during xx year, but declined." There will be follow up questions... you can choose to believe me or not, I don't care, but there will be follow up questions to that.

I agree with the advice you gave her. "No" may be the best option for some people.

What I don't like, is that you followed that advice with tales of schools punishing students for the decision you just advised. If that's not a mixed message...

I never once said schools punish students for declining acceptances and I made that quite clear in my posts. I said they will have questions regarding why you declined SHOULD THEY FIND OUT. (I am going to have to bold and capitalize important details for you since you can't read). That is the bottom line. If the school finds out you declined a previous acceptance, then they will question you about it. It doesn't mean they will be rude, evil, vet school sorcerers as you are suggesting I am saying. They are just going to want to know why you did decline.

I do still think that, in some instances, declining can be a good option BUT it needs to be thoroughly thought through... the consequences of that decline (NOT MEANING FROM A SCHOOL FINDING OUT) being that you may never get accepted again needs to be considered. You also need to consider the slight chance that a school does during the interview or maybe somewhere in the application process discover you declined a prior acceptance.. be prepared to answer any questions about that they might have and answer them well. (To be very clear here, I am NOT saying the schools are going to go on a warpath to figure out if you have been accepted before, but you will be surprised to how small of a field vet med is and these schools are in communication with one another... )

It is not a mixed message, if you knew how to actually read. Which it is obvious that you do not.

There is also a chance that she may be accepted to UGA.

Yes, there is.... but it is not a "HIGH" chance like you were trying to make it out to be.

How do you know what schools are going to think? Who tells them? For what purpose are they told?

This makes zero sense as a response to the quote of mine you were replying to.

Aren't those really questions they might ask about every applicant? Is he or she ready? Does this student have doubts about the career?

Sure, but declining an prior acceptance would sure put more doubt into their minds than a first, second, third or x number time applicant that has not done that.

How can you say this...

So to say that applying again and again, year after year after you have already been accepted is not a waste of time or money is just absurd.

... and this...

Sure, I don't think someone who wants to go to vet school and has been applying and never been accepted before is wasting their money applying a few years in a row (within reason)... I did it. I do feel like I spent a crap ton of money though, a waste, no, but it was still a lot of time and a lot of money.

... and this...

It will be spending more time and more money and considering where you could have been, it is a waste.

... in the same response?

Mixed messages again. Do you really believe the advice you gave to the OP? I'm not convinced.

You really do not know how to read. You need to stop nit-picking through things and picking out a few points and quoting them. Read them in context...

Here is the full part of my post, so I can explain it to you because you can't follow along and read...

Ok, this last bit is just absurd. Sure, I don't think someone who wants to go to vet school and has been applying and never been accepted before is wasting their money applying a few years in a row (within reason)... I did it. I do feel like I spent a crap ton of money though, a waste, no, but it was still a lot of time and a lot of money.
Now, a person that was previously accepted who in 4 years time could have been making ~50,000/year working (low estimate) but instead declined their acceptance to reapply is wasting money and time. Nobody knows how much time it would take that student to be accepted... let's say 3 years... so they applied to vet school 3 more years.. each year spending ~$200.. that is $600. In that 3 years, tuition of vet school has also increased so now they have to take out more student loan money for vet school.
Now had this student accepted the offer right off... they would not have spent the $600 to apply, they would not have to pay more in student loan money over the 4 years of school and they would have 3 years of making $50,000/year (and only if they don't get a raise in any of those 3 years). They will have also had those 3 years to start paying on the loans.
Now, that is a waste of time (you could have been done in 4 years instead of 7) as well as money (application fees, tuition increases, no income from vet job).
So to say that applying again and again, year after year after you have already been accepted is not a waste of time or money is just absurd. It will be spending more time and more money and considering where you could have been, it is a waste. Obviously, the OP is the one who has to decide if it is worth it to them, to spend the extra time and money just to be in the position they are already currently in.

Blue part= applicant who repeatedly applied until accepted then went to school once they got an acceptance. (I.e. this person never declined an acceptance). I still think there is a limit that should be put on this, but that limit will be personal for everyone. This person is not "wasting" time/money because they had no choice in the matter, they were stuck without an acceptance and having to apply again.

Red part= applicant that was accepted, declined and is now stuck applying over and over again.... This person is wasting time and money because of the following reasons: 1. Time on applications possibly many years. 2. Money on applications 3. Money in extra tuition 4. Less time making an income.

Honestly, it isn't that hard... just follow what has been typed. If you still don't get it, then I have no clue what to tell you. Ask someone around you to explain it. Really basic/straightforward information...

You don't make people aware of consequences by only fixating on the bad ones.

Where did people only fixate on "bad" things? There is a MASSIVE difference between "bad" and realistic... look it up.



Anyway, this is now becoming a pointless task for a variety of reasons:

1. You can't read.
2. You take things out of context
3. You put words into people's mouths in order to attempt to make your point seem legitimate
4. The OP has already decided that they are going to go ahead and take their acceptance at Western

I highly suggest that before you apply again that you do some good research on vet school applications and maybe take a browse through accepted applicant stats thread. It will do you some good to realize that this process is highly unpredictable. It will also do you some good to become more aware of the various schools before you comment on them. I must go study now, finals and all.

 

[BlackDog17]

The only people who never get into vet school are those who don't apply and those who stop applying.

This is utterly absurd. I'm getting the distinct impression that this argument is no longer about the OP's dream school and more about your own applications.

I'm sure it's probably comforting to you to think that if you just stick with it you'll get in someday no matter what. I hate to disillusion you, but that's simply not the way it works. Yes, there are people who never get into veterinary school. There's no point in sugar coating it. Rejections are the reality of any competitive program, be it vet school, medical school, law school, whatever. You have to be mature enough to accept that. Yes, people do stop applying, but that's because they're realistic and mentally healthy enough to realize that an acceptance isn't going to happen for them. That doesn't mean that if they just kept at it for another five, or ten, or twenty years and wished upon a star hard enough they would have been accepted. Some people just never get accepted for whatever reason. It happens.

From your previous posts it sounds like you may be a non-traditional applicant, so maybe you already have a comfortable career and can continue throwing time and money into applications year after year for the foreseeable future without causing to much detriment to yourself. But do you really think you can advise a 21 year old applicant to do that? Do you really think it's fair to tell applicants that they should just put their lives on hold for the next ten or twenty years - never establish a career, live at home working for crappy pay (because if you have any experience in vet med at all, you know that most jobs that look good on an application don't pay well), never settle down anywhere because maybe next year they'll be moving to vet school, etc - because if they just keep trying maybe they'll get in before they're too old to walk to class unassisted? That's ridiculous. At some point you have to move on with your life and continuing to apply and get rejected year after year with the same "it will happen someday!" mentality is just delusional. As the famously misattributed Einstein quote says: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Not to mention that after a while your pre-reqs will start to expire. For most schools this will be after about 6 years. So then you're pouring even more time and money into retaking your pre-reqs so you can apply yet again. And if you still don't get in, what do you do? Apply for another six years and then retake everything a third time? Maybe if you've got money in the bank and nothing better to do with your life that's fine. But that's terrible advice for most applicants. Most won't be able to afford it (no career, remember?) and most will be incredibly unhappy spending their lives stagnating like that. At some point it just becomes an unhealthy obsession. After a while schools are going to see all those unsuccessful attempts as desperate rather than endearing.

No one ever said that it was guaranteed that OP will never get in again. They just said it was a risk. And like it or not, it is a risk. Making sure she's aware of that risk is not being mean or discouraging, it's giving good, responsible advice. She will be asked about previous application cycles when she applies again. She will be asked why she declined her previous acceptance. If it was a matter of cost or an issue with the school itself that would be one thing, but the reasons the OP has given in this thread are not that solid. The two reasons she has given here are: 1) she has her heart set on UGA, and 2) she doesn't think LA people are like her so she doesn't want to go there. The first reason is going to be unacceptable to any school but UGA. Why should they offer her an seat when she is most assuredly going to turn them down if she gets accepted at UGA? The second reason sends up a lot of red flags in a field that is so strongly dependent on good communication and teamwork. So, YES, there is definitely a risk that she would not get accepted again. There is no use in denying it. Note that I said risk. That doesn't mean it's guaranteed that she'll be rejected from here on out. There's a chance that she'll be accepted again, especially if she improves her application, establishes residency, etc. But understanding both the risks and the possibilities is part of making a well-informed decision. You can't just ignore the bad stuff and expect it to never happen just because you don't want to hear it.

You seem to think that getting accepted to veterinary school is like winning the lottery, and if you buy enough tickets eventually the statistics swing in your favor and you'll win. That is incorrect. You are spreading misinformation and the advice you're giving to future applicants reading this thread is terrible. I highly suggest you take a look at threads like Successful Applicant Stats or the Plan B threads to get a better idea of what it really takes to get accepted after multiple application cycles and how applicants make the decision to stop applying when they've been rejected too many times. There have been many people on these forums who have had to make that difficult decision. Telling them that they would get in if they just applied another dozen times is neither correct nor helpful.

 

[Dlisted]

 

[jmo1012]

you've got it all wrong -
rose colored glasses of pre-veterinary school vs. those of us who have been around the block a few times and have perhaps a little more experience with school politics (because whether directly related or not, the politics of a school will definitely influence their adcom stuff too).

 

[LetItSnow]

I'm not a firm believer of "go wherever you've been accepted." As others have said, vet school is a privilege - and a huge burden- but always a choice.

Ok, but then why did you (general 'you') apply to the school to which you were accepted in the first place, if you weren't planning to go there?

I mean, sure, there are always exceptions. Circumstances change. Whatever. If you nitpick me to death I'm going to roll my eyes at you. But in general why would you apply to a place at which you later decline an acceptance when you didn't get in somewhere else? Seems like a pointless waste of money. If you were only going to accept an offer from school A, then why apply to schools B through whatever?

 

[LetItSnow]

I wish that were true, but I've seen this come up multiple times on these boards and in discussions with other pre-vet students at my own institution. People have very strong reactions to this topic and it's because there are those who feel it is inappropriate and that people should "be grateful" for any acceptance[. It is unthinkable to many that someone would say "no" and throw themselves back into an application cycle.

That's a pile of crap. For starters, nobody has to know how many times you applied, or where you applied, or whether you turned down an acceptance ... or any of it. So if you're worried about stigma when you get into vet school, just keep your trap shut about your application process and nobody will know.

Second, you're wrong: nobody gives a rat's ass. I can't think of a single time I've ever wondered "how many times did it take so-n-so to get in?" or "gosh, I wonder if so-n-so ever turned down an acceptance?" (I have wondered a few times HOW some people got in, but.......)

Third - and respectfully - but who cares if some pre-vet wants to judge someone? Oh no! I'm being judged by someone else who hasn't gotten into vet school!

Big. Deal.

I think you're creating a stigma where none exists.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Ha ha ha. This thread is filled with tl;dr posts...
I skimmed.

to OP: Face it, you are not likely to get into Georgia.

As for the rest: getting into one school has VERY LITTLE to do with getting into another. Don't be rolling those dice if you don't have to. Different schools look for different things.

Will OP like Western? Who knows. Seems like all we know is that Western is not equal to UGA. So what?
Judge it for what it is or isn't.

If you will be miserable don't go.
If you could be happy (or neutral) go.

and to the rest of you: USE FEWER WORDS.

 

[LetItSnow]

Ha ha ha. This thread is filled with tl;dr posts...
I skimmed.

to OP: Face it, you are not likely to get into Georgia.

As for the rest: getting into one school has VERY LITTLE to do with getting into another. Don't be rolling those dice if you don't have to. Different schools look for different things.

Will OP like Western? Who knows. Seems like all we know is that Western is not equal to UGA. So what?
Judge it for what it is or isn't.

If you will be miserable don't go.
If you could be happy (or neutral) go.

and to the rest of you: USE FEWER WORDS.

Tl;dr

 

[StartingoverVet]

Tl;dr

I knew SOMEONE would do that. So happy it was you.

 

[rainbowfish818]

I'm really glad I found this post because I might be in a similar scenario ( still waiting to hear back from my dream school which might be out of reach GPA-wise) and was totally willing to turn down an acceptance at my safety school to try again. However, I can see now that this is a potentially rewarding but overall pretty risky situation. A friend of mine at Davis said she met an applicant with strong grades, scores, etc who was told she got rejected just because she was OOS so she moved to CA, reapplied, and got in. Not sure if that applicant applied or got in anywhere else. I would say if the OP is in such a situation, which doesn't seem to be the case, it might be worth the gamble.

At the end of the day, you have to consider whether your life dream is to be a vet or to attend a certain school. If becoming a vet is the most important thing for you, then the reality is that Western is offering you a chance to do that while UGA is not.

 

[jmstroup]

The CVM at the University of Georgia is my dream school! However, my undergrad GPA is less than competitive for an OOS applicant at UGA, but I do have a lot of varied experience and decent LORs.

Anyway, I was accepted at Western University and have accepted the offer. I've been having doubts lately because I would be so incredibly happy at UGA for many different reasons.

I know that a DVM is a DVM regardless of where it's from in the U.S. (or other U.S.-accredited schools). I was just wondering if I could get some feedback from someone else in a similar situation.. should I settle… or apply again to my dream school and risk the chance of not getting in and have to wait another year or even more to start vet school

Thank you so much!

I am in the same exact situation! The choices have been haunting me since I got rejected... I'm currently an undergrad at UGA but I'm considered OOS and I didn't get into UGA CVM this cycle. I'm heavily considering staying in Athens after graduation to gain in-state and improve my chances at getting in next cycle with one of my good friends, who also didn't get in this cycle. However, I have two interviews this week at Illinois and Penn. If I get into either one, I have no idea what I'm going to do... Illinois has great wildlife med opportunities, and Penn is... well, it's an amazing education, haha... But on the other hand, I've lived in Athens for 4 years, established relationships with vets at the school, UGA just built an ridiculously amazing new teaching hospital, and, if I can get instate, it would save me $100k.