Should I still go into medicine if I am not altruistic

[kduarte1]

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I have many reasons for wanting to go into medicine (love for anatomy/physio, good enough grades +mcat to get in, respect+ salary associated with being an MD) but altruism isn't one of them. I tried very hard to get my self to be altruistic but I just dont seem to enjoy sacrificing my time to help others. I am not a bad person or anyhting I care about people. Would I still be happy being a doctor or should I pick another career?

 

[202781]

I have many reasons for wanting to go into medicine (love for anatomy/physio, good enough grades +mcat to get in, respect+ salary associated with being an MD) but altruism isn't one of them. I tried very hard to get my self to be altruistic but I just dont seem to enjoy sacrificing my time to help others. I am not a bad person or anyhting I care about people. Would I still be happy being a doctor or should I pick another career?

Unlike a lot of the nuts on here that say money has in no way played a role and want to get you to think that they are 100% pure and altruistic...that is just simply not the case. Medicine is very interesting and I would not personally fault you for not being altruistic, although I believe that once you begin to work in medicine and see people that could use your services, you will give at least some of your time to help those people free of charge.

 

[GoSpursGo]

As long as your genuinely interested for SOME reason (in this case, A&P, salary), I highly doubt your patients will care your reasons for being a doctor as long as you treat them.

Just don't say you're not altruistic to your interviewers!

 

[starfishprime]

Altruism is overly romanticized (and incorrectly so). If you are interested in medicine, and enjoy practicing, that is self-interest. My interest in medicine, also, is not motivated by altruism. It is motivated by scientific curiosity and (to a lesser extent) compassion.

So, it's not necessary (and is perhaps harmful) to be altruistic. However, if you utterly lack compassion and are generally a misanthrope, tread lightly.

 

[NotAndrew]

As long as your genuinely interested for SOME reason (in this case, A&P, salary), I highly doubt your patients will care your reasons for being a doctor as long as you treat them.

Just don't say you're not altruistic to your interviewers!

Whatever you do, don't say that in an interview.

 

[TMP-SMX]

You don't have to be altruistic, but you may find yourself pretty unhappy with your job if you don't get some kind of satisfaction other than money from medicine especially when you are in your training making minimum wage.

 

[starfishprime]

Just don't say you're not altruistic to your interviewers!

I did. It's all about framing. There's practically nothing you can't say in an interview, provided you do it right. Example:

"I absolutely hate medicine and am only motivated by ego and money...

See, I can barely keep a straight face it's so absurd."

 

[kduarte1]

my motivation is more the love of science than money. I sometimes think that its the overly altuistic docs that will be miserable in medicine. I recently shadowed a GI doc who does colonoscopies 10 hours/day M-F, I just don't really see how doing that would satisfy ones altruism.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

Even "altruistic" doctors, are self interested.

 

[Cadams1]

As long as you treat your patients well, who cares why you want to be a doctor imo.

 

[niranjan162]

As long as you treat your patients well, who cares why you want to be a doctor imo.

adcoms

 

[NotAndrew]

adcoms

Fearless just laid down the law.

 

[Greonis]

I'd bet money that no doctor in the world is truly altruistic. To be wholly dedicated to the well-being of others (not even taking pleasure in their gratitude) is just about impossible to do.

It is perfectly normal to look out for yourself to an extent. It is quite a commitment to become a physician, and the profession is likely to be merciless for anyone who does not balance their desire to serve others with their own needs.

 

[Law2Doc]

I have many reasons for wanting to go into medicine (love for anatomy/physio, good enough grades +mcat to get in, respect+ salary associated with being an MD) but altruism isn't one of them. I tried very hard to get my self to be altruistic but I just dont seem to enjoy sacrificing my time to help others. I am not a bad person or anyhting I care about people. Would I still be happy being a doctor or should I pick another career?

Altruism is not the best reason to go into medicine. That being said, some of the reasons you list are among the worst reasons to go into medicine. Having the grades is NEVER a reason to select a career you will be doing for the next 45+ years. Money and respect aren't going to get you through the rough patches, and in many cases you won't get both. And I'd say "love for anatomy/phys" is not really fleshed out, nor is it a reason to become a doctor. You can get a PhD in anatomy or physiology. No doctors primarilly practice in these fields. You have to be interested in the practice of MEDICINE, not one or two courses (that are effectively just background for what is to come, not medicine itself). That's really not a whole lot different than saying you like biochem so you want to be a doctor -- it's important to know, but is off target for the profession.

So from reading your post you really need to get out there and get some more or better ECs and shadowing experiences. Medicine isn't anything like an anatomy class, and nothing in your post suggests you will be happy with the job, just the possible perqs of the job. Which isn't enough. If you don't love or are at least significantly interested in what you see practitioners doing, then you won't be ready for med school. It's not about money, respect, or altruism -- those are fine perqs if you can get them (not everybody in medicine does) but shouldn't be the primary reason to go into a field you are going to be working long hours in for the foreseeable future. It's a long hard path, with very delayed gratification. There are better, easier and quicker ways to earn money. The "respect" you think you are going to get is pretty minimal. But no, you don't have to go into medicine to "help people" per se. You need to do it out of genuine interest and knowing that this set of tasks is what you see yourself doing for the next 40 years. And not just hoping for a nice paycheck and everyone treating you with respect. Both are nice if they happen, but they won't make getting up and going to work at 5 am each morning for the next 45 years palatable.

 

[rocketbooster]

Altruism is not the best reason to go into medicine. That being said, some of the reasons you list are among the worst reasons to go into medicine. Having the grades is NEVER a reason to select a career you will be doing for the next 45+ years. Money and respect aren't going to get you through the rough patches, and in many cases you won't get both. And I'd say "love for anatomy/phys" is not really fleshed out, nor is it a reason to become a doctor. You can get a PhD in anatomy or physiology. No doctors primarilly practice in these fields. You have to be interested in the practice of MEDICINE, not one or two courses (that are effectively just background for what is to come, not medicine itself). That's really not a whole lot different than saying you like biochem so you want to be a doctor -- it's important to know, but is off target for the profession.

So from reading your post you really need to get out there and get some more or better ECs and shadowing experiences. Medicine isn't anything like an anatomy class, and nothing in your post suggests you will be happy with the job, just the possible perqs of the job. Which isn't enough. If you don't love or are at least significantly interested in what you see practitioners doing, then you won't be ready for med school. It's not about money, respect, or altruism -- those are fine perqs if you can get them (not everybody in medicine does) but shouldn't be the primary reason to go into a field you are going to be working long hours in for the foreseeable future. It's a long hard path, with very delayed gratification. There are better, easier and quicker ways to earn money. The "respect" you think you are going to get is pretty minimal. But no, you don't have to go into medicine to "help people" per se. You need to do it out of genuine interest and knowing that this set of tasks is what you see yourself doing for the next 40 years. And not just hoping for a nice paycheck and everyone treating you with respect. Both are nice if they happen, but they won't make getting up and going to work at 5 am each morning for the next 45 years palatable.

Completely exaggerated. You don't have to scare him/her too much, L2D!

and being a physician definitely brings the respect the OP mentioned if you are a good physician. being a good physician=loving the job, which I would think would require some altruism.

 

[ngkats]

Altruism is overly romanticized (and incorrectly so). If you are interested in medicine, and enjoy practicing, that is self-interest. My interest in medicine, also, is not motivated by altruism. It is motivated by scientific curiosity and (to a lesser extent) compassion.

So, it's not necessary (and is perhaps harmful) to be altruistic. However, if you utterly lack compassion and are generally a misanthrope, tread lightly.

First of all, can you please explain why altruism is 'incorrectly' romanticized?

Secondly, you're claiming that you are not altruistic at all but 'compassion' is one of your motivations for becoming a physician, right? Can you explain how that makes sense?

 

[Kaustikos]

First of all, can you please explain why altruism is 'incorrectly' romanticized?

Secondly, you're claiming that you are not altruistic at all but 'compassion' is one of your motivations for becoming a physician, right? Can you explain how that makes sense?

Compassion and altruism aren't necessarily the same thing...at all. You can be compassionate about something but not altruistic. I have compassion, but altruism is a far stretch for me in certain cases.

edit

and not to say this is the quoted person's view, but I can see lots of examples on television where altruism is "incorrectly" romanticized.

 

[unsung]

I have many reasons for wanting to go into medicine (love for anatomy/physio, good enough grades +mcat to get in, respect+ salary associated with being an MD) but altruism isn't one of them. I tried very hard to get my self to be altruistic but I just dont seem to enjoy sacrificing my time to help others. I am not a bad person or anyhting I care about people. Would I still be happy being a doctor or should I pick another career?

The good thing is altruism can be learned. Think about it, as kids didn't we ALL start out as selfish beings? It's a natural part of development- going from our worlds consisting solely of ourselves and being limited by the confines of our own point of view to developing empathy and appreciating other points of view.

I would say that empathy is a necessary quality of being a physician... but it also seems to me that empathy and altruism are almost intrinsically related. What do you guys think? Without empathy for someone else's point of view and plight, how does one develop an altruistic nature ? Actually I think altruism is almost a necessary consequence of feeling a deep sense of empathy for another person's suffering.

If in your life experience you haven't had as much of a chance to develop empathy, then seek out those experiences. The very act of volunteering and *behaving* altruistically can, over time, instill those feelings/instincts.

It's that whole psychological principle of behavior preceding thoughts/feelings. Many studies have affirmed this idea. I've experienced this personally through volunteering as a counselor... by speaking in a way that's more empathetic, I found myself actually feeling more empathy for the person and being more open to their experiences. I do think the volunteering I've done (started mostly because it's just the pre-med "thing to do") have helped change my character for the better.

So, basically, I think if you wanted to develop a more altruistic, empathetic nature, you could. Think acts, actions... the feelings and the "second nature" reflexive emotions will come later. It's a step we all had to take, some of us were just lucky enough to have dealt with this step earlier on in life due to life experiences (ex- born into large family, have to help lots of siblings, etc.). And... others of us (myself included... only child) weren't so lucky and had to develop it later in life. That's perfectly fine. The point is, it's possible, as long as you want to.

 

[ngkats]

Compassion and altruism aren't necessarily the same thing...at all. You can be compassionate about something but not altruistic. I have compassion, but altruism is a far stretch for me in certain cases.

edit

and not to say this is the quoted person's view, but I can see lots of examples on television where altruism is "incorrectly" romanticized.

Fine, but can you tell me why or give me an example of how it is incorrectly romanticized. I just didn't understand the statement.

And can you give me an example of what you mean by the italicized statement?

 

[Kaustikos]

Fine, but can you tell me why or give me an example of how it is incorrectly romanticized. I just didn't understand the statement.

And can you give me an example of what you mean by the italicized statement?

I assume that they mean it in the context of how people view altruistic people. I may be mistaken entirely, but I just generally tend to see that people view altruistic people as being these noble, great people with this selfless devotion to some great cause.

I do have compassion, in regards to helping people, but I still tend to "not want" to help people. But that's more or less because, as unsung put it, I haven't "learned" how to be altruistic in certain cases. I'll give a homeless person my leftover food to help them anytime I can but I wouldn't lift a finger for a grotestiquely obese person sitting in a KFC eating a bucket of fried chicken everyday for the rest of their life unless I was reimbursed for the help.

 

[billw]

Were you planning to work as a doctor for free? If not, how do you figure altruism would have factored into your career?

Doctors work a lot of hours and don't appear to have a lot of spare time for ladle-work at the soup kitchen.

You could perhaps claim that there is some altruism involved in spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and eight years of your life to get a job with a salary that you could match in sales or IT without having even a high school diploma.

In something as highly competitive as medical education, the idea that any significant portion of people are driven by altruism seems like a stretch to me.

 

[Kaustikos]

Were you planning to work as a doctor for free? If not, how do you figure altruism would have factored into your career?

Doctors work a lot of hours and don't appear to have a lot of spare time for ladle-work at the soup kitchen.

You could perhaps claim that there is some altruism involved in spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and eight years of your life to get a job with a salary that you could match in sales or IT without having even a high school diploma.

In something as highly competitive as medical education, the idea that any significant portion of people are driven by altruism seems like a stretch to me.

There is definitely altruism in what people in medicine or misery entails. You're spending HOURS doing certain tasks you don't WANT do to but will do it because it benefits the patient. And no, pay isn't the reason either.

 

[DOquestions]

I'm pretty sure most pre-meds who get admitted to medical school got in without really having a "real" reason to become a doctor besides liking learning about the human body. If you love anatomy, get a Ph.D. in that area. If you love physiology, get a degree in an area that you would love.

I've been reading about some people on SDN who love sports medicine and still want to get to medical school. Why not get a Ph.D. in biomechanics or sports phsyiology and work directly with athletes instead of just repairing the injuries of the athletes. Working along side professional and college athletes sounds a heck of a lot more interesting to me then waiting for an NFL player to get knocked out or break a bone for you to do your job and then work in the hospital/clinic during the week....instead you could be working with athletes during the week. This is actually an area I would consider as I love college football.

 

[billw]

There is definitely altruism in what people in medicine or misery entails. You're spending HOURS doing certain tasks you don't WANT do to but will do it because it benefits the patient. And no, pay isn't the reason either.

Would you do those things if you didn't get paid?

My career has involved spending hours doing certain tasks I didn't want to do, because they were of benefit to the company. I don't feel that qualifies me as altruistic.

According to dictionary.com, altruism is "the principle or practice of unselfish concern for or devotion to the welfare of others."

I'm not sure I can reasonably claim that anything in my life has ever been motivated by unselfish concern or devotion to the welfare of others.

I want to go into medicine:

1. Because I find it fascinating.
2. Because it is a field that offers nearly unlimited opportunity for further learning and specialization.
3. Because it puts me in a position of offering something more valuable to my community than what I have done in the past, for which I will be compensated in a variety of ways.

None of those are particularly altruistic. I will make a lower salary in medicine, will have spent a couple hundred thousand dollars, and undergone probably about a million dollars in opportunity cost, so I suppose there is sacrifice involved, but it would still be a stretch to call that altruism.

 

[DOquestions]

Would you do those things if you didn't get paid?

My career has involved spending hours doing certain tasks I didn't want to do, because they were of benefit to the company. I don't feel that qualifies me as altruistic.

According to dictionary.com, altruism is "the principle or practice of unselfish concern for or devotion to the welfare of others."

I'm not sure I can reasonably claim that anything in my life has ever been motivated by unselfish concern or devotion to the welfare of others.

I want to go into medicine:

1. Because I find it fascinating.
2. Because it is a field that offers nearly unlimited opportunity for further learning and specialization.
3. Because it puts me in a position of offering something more valuable to my community than what I have done in the past, for which I will be compensated in a variety of ways.

None of those are particularly altruistic. I will make a lower salary in medicine, will have spent a couple hundred thousand dollars, and undergone probably about a million dollars in opportunity cost, so I suppose there is sacrifice involved, but it would still be a stretch to call that altruism.

Just some warnings to watch for:

1: Just because you find it fascinating does not mean you will enjoy it when you do get to that path. A lot of people go into medical school really excited and become jaded because of how the process works. Then a good percent match into fields that you don't like. I love learning how the kidney works, but no way in heck am I ever going to be a nephrologist.

Being passionate about a subject area is different then being fascinated. So be careful.

2: This is not true. There is no such thing as unlimited opportunity. You will be regulated in what you can and can't do for everything. You want to research a certain hormone and disease association? Is there any grant money? Do you even have the time to do the research? Is there even lab space?

What you can do as a doctor will be limited by many factors: the facility you are located in, your specific patient population for the community your practice in (do you live in an Amish area, a Caucasian area, an American American area, etc), the equipment your facility has, the insurance company your patients have, your specialty, etc, etc. Depending on which hospital/clinic you work for and the patient population will providing the type of cases you will see. If you live in an area with no large cities you will deal with a lot of health conditions that are adult based and if you live in this type of area for pediatrics, you will see a lot of the same cases and rarely will you see the complicated and rare diseases.

You want to work for a major hospital? Good luck! You are not the only one.

3: The impact on the community you have will only be the direct patients that you work with. If you want to impact the whole community, go into politics. If you want to make an impact in society, you need to be an innovative thinker and love research.

 

[TMP-SMX]

For those of us subspecializing or doing surgery we spend our whole 20s learning medicine and working for free or at minimum wage while paying off obscene amounts of loans. I'd say there is a certain understanding for those in the medical profession that you should not do this for the money. Of course we have to make ends meet and physicians and teachers are two professions that should be making money as they make a difference. As for enjoying science, a PhD spends every second contributing to and learning science. A physician has to deal with patients and there is an artistic portion to that. Practicing medicine is not directly scientific and many things are going to come down to protocol, evidence-based medicine, and bedside manner.

 

[airca12]

I've been reading about some people on SDN who love sports medicine and still want to get to medical school. Why not get a Ph.D. in biomechanics or sports phsyiology and work directly with athletes instead of just repairing the injuries of the athletes. Working along side professional and college athletes sounds a heck of a lot more interesting to me then waiting for an NFL player to get knocked out or break a bone for you to do your job and then work in the hospital/clinic during the week....instead you could be working with athletes during the week. This is actually an area I would consider as I love college football.

Efficacy.

Repairing an injury *is* working with the athlete. In fact, it's working with the athlete at the highest level. That's why the people on SDN that you refer to would rather be taking care of the athlete rather than being along side him/her.

 

[billw]

Thanks for your advice DO. At 34, with a 15 year career now behind me, I tend to judge every opportunity in terms relative to that experience. I am well aware that medicine carries its share of unpleasant burdens and, of course, now two years down this path after three years of considering it, I've probably got about as good a picture as I'm going to get before actually stepping foot in med school

1: Just because you find it fascinating does not mean you will enjoy it when you do get to that path. A lot of people go into medical school really excited and become jaded because of how the process works. Then a good percent match into fields that you don't like. I love learning how the kidney works, but no way in heck am I ever going to be a nephrologist.

Being passionate about a subject area is different then being fascinated. So be careful.

Having engaged in a career that I did not find fascinating and discovering that it was, in fact, not fascinating, at least I am closer to the mark now.

As far as the passion/fascination debate goes, I'm not so sure the difference in meaning between those terms is great enough to be meaningful when they are used by different people. I would never describe myself as passionate, as I don't have deep emotional reactions that I would describe as passion. So, perhaps I am not equipped with what other people describe as passion, or perhaps my concept of fascination is equivalent to your concept of passion.

2: This is not true. There is no such thing as unlimited opportunity. You will be regulated in what you can and can't do for everything. You want to research a certain hormone and disease association? Is there any grant money? Do you even have the time to do the research? Is there even lab space?

What you can do as a doctor will be limited by many factors: the facility you are located in, your specific patient population for the community your practice in (do you live in an Amish area, a Caucasian area, an American American area, etc), the equipment your facility has, the insurance company your patients have, your specialty, etc, etc. Depending on which hospital/clinic you work for and the patient population will providing the type of cases you will see. If you live in an area with no large cities you will deal with a lot of health conditions that are adult based and if you live in this type of area for pediatrics, you will see a lot of the same cases and rarely will you see the complicated and rare diseases.

Again, judged relative to my previous career, the opportunity is there. I certainly did not mean to imply that it is effortless, or costless, or possible without total rearrangement of one's life, but then, I wouldn't have come to this point in my life if any of those considerations were major deterrents.

3: The impact on the community you have will only be the direct patients that you work with. If you want to impact the whole community, go into politics. If you want to make an impact in society, you need to be an innovative thinker and love research.

To find work at my level in my previous job, I had to commute away from my community during the week. In addition, my community has a perennial dearth of doctors. Judged by those factors, I would have a heck of a lot more involvement in my community.

I figure it this way: I did 15 years in a career that offered me great opportunities that largely bored me and left me rather culturally adrift. Six more years of school and I'll be 40. After residency, I might be 44-45. If I felt stale in my circumstances after 15 years once, it could happen again. What would I do, bored at the age of 60? Well, plenty of opportunities exist - change of specialty, change of location (potentially even change of country) and patient profile, move to research, move to teaching, etc. That is a whole dimension of opportunity that did not exist for me before. Of course, as you point out, none of these changes are easy, but I don't demand ease - just opportunity.

On a 15 year cycle, I can only get bored a few more times before I kick the bucket.

 

[DOquestions]

Thanks for your advice DO. At 34, with a 15 year career now behind me, I tend to judge every opportunity in terms relative to that experience. I am well aware that medicine carries its share of unpleasant burdens and, of course, now two years down this path after three years of considering it, I've probably got about as good a picture as I'm going to get before actually stepping foot in med school



Having engaged in a career that I did not find fascinating and discovering that it was, in fact, not fascinating, at least I am closer to the mark now.

As far as the passion/fascination debate goes, I'm not so sure the difference in meaning between those terms is great enough to be meaningful when they are used by different people. I would never describe myself as passionate, as I don't have deep emotional reactions that I would describe as passion. So, perhaps I am not equipped with what other people describe as passion, or perhaps my concept of fascination is equivalent to your concept of passion.



Again, judged relative to my previous career, the opportunity is there. I certainly did not mean to imply that it is effortless, or costless, or possible without total rearrangement of one's life, but then, I wouldn't have come to this point in my life if any of those considerations were major deterrents.



To find work at my level in my previous job, I had to commute away from my community during the week. In addition, my community has a perennial dearth of doctors. Judged by those factors, I would have a heck of a lot more involvement in my community.

I figure it this way: I did 15 years in a career that offered me great opportunities that largely bored me and left me rather culturally adrift. Six more years of school and I'll be 40. After residency, I might be 44-45. If I felt stale in my circumstances after 15 years once, it could happen again. What would I do, bored at the age of 60? Well, plenty of opportunities exist - change of specialty, change of location (potentially even change of country) and patient profile, move to research, move to teaching, etc. That is a whole dimension of opportunity that did not exist for me before. Of course, as you point out, none of these changes are easy, but I don't demand ease - just opportunity.

On a 15 year cycle, I can only get bored a few more times before I kick the bucket.

I know how you feel. I just wanted to point out the realities after training is done from my understanding (five years of health care experience and continuing and just under eight years of research and shadowing every profession known to man kind in this career path). Going into the right specialty for what you find interesting is often the key.

The opportunity will be there, you just need to find a way to make it happen. This is where passion comes in. You need the passion (not to the point of being emotionally crying, but have the drive) to make it happen with all of the negative stuff you will face.

I will be 28 this summer. So I know how you feel with becoming a doctor and having the "unlimited potential."

 

[usermike8500]

It hasn't been said yet, so I'll say it. "If you're interested in money and prestige, there are plenty of better career options than medicine." What those career options are, nobody knows.

 

[Law2Doc]

Completely exaggerated. You don't have to scare him/her too much, L2D!
...

Not at all exaggerated about the 5am part. Medicine is an early morning profession. The majority of physicians start their day early. Surgeons are at the hospital by 5. Many others tend to see patients before their meetings/procedures that start at 7. 7am breakfast meetings are extremely common in the field.
This isn't a 9-5 job. It often can be a 5-9 job. If you are afraid of the wee early morning, you are probably going to find med school and beyond very rough.

 

[themachine312]

i dont know if this has been said... but dont you think the fact that you have taken the time to think about what patients would think of your "lack of altruism" and write about it on sdn shows that you have some kind of altruistic or compassionate tendencies?

you underestimate yourself padawon.

and to quote a lot of dead people, "hell is paved with good intentions". A sick person doesnt need someone full of sympathy, they need someone that can do their job well and save their life.

 

[Kaustikos]

i dont know if this has been said... but dont you think the fact that you have taken the time to think about what patients would think of your "lack of altruism" and write about it on sdn shows that you have some kind of altruistic or compassionate tendencies?

you underestimate yourself padawon.

and to quote a lot of dead people, "hell is paved with good intentions". A sick person doesnt need someone full of sympathy, they need someone that can do their job well and save their life.

I view it as inevitably being unaltruistic due to the cascading effects of those thoughts.

Am I altruistic? Do I lack altruism?

goes to

I need to be altruistic

goes to

I need to do things that show I am altruistic (Thus not being altruistic because you're not doing it selflessly but for personal motives)

I will volunteer here to show that I have compassion and am altruistic (LIAR - you're doing it for medical school. You'd leave that hobo on the street crying if it didn't mean acceptance to med school1)

I am altruistic! (No, you wanted to be altruistic and therefor tried making actions to "prove" you are, but not really showing it)


But that's my take

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Altruism is not the best reason to go into medicine. That being said, some of the reasons you list are among the worst reasons to go into medicine. Having the grades is NEVER a reason to select a career you will be doing for the next 45+ years. Money and respect aren't going to get you through the rough patches, and in many cases you won't get both. And I'd say "love for anatomy/phys" is not really fleshed out, nor is it a reason to become a doctor. You can get a PhD in anatomy or physiology. No doctors primarilly practice in these fields. You have to be interested in the practice of MEDICINE, not one or two courses (that are effectively just background for what is to come, not medicine itself). That's really not a whole lot different than saying you like biochem so you want to be a doctor -- it's important to know, but is off target for the profession.

So from reading your post you really need to get out there and get some more or better ECs and shadowing experiences. Medicine isn't anything like an anatomy class, and nothing in your post suggests you will be happy with the job, just the possible perqs of the job. Which isn't enough. If you don't love or are at least significantly interested in what you see practitioners doing, then you won't be ready for med school. It's not about money, respect, or altruism -- those are fine perqs if you can get them (not everybody in medicine does) but shouldn't be the primary reason to go into a field you are going to be working long hours in for the foreseeable future. It's a long hard path, with very delayed gratification. There are better, easier and quicker ways to earn money. The "respect" you think you are going to get is pretty minimal. But no, you don't have to go into medicine to "help people" per se. You need to do it out of genuine interest and knowing that this set of tasks is what you see yourself doing for the next 40 years. And not just hoping for a nice paycheck and everyone treating you with respect. Both are nice if they happen, but they won't make getting up and going to work at 5 am each morning for the next 45 years palatable.

Most of the post is baloney. Case in point a Lawyer drops out of practice and decides to go to medical school to become a doctor. OP only you can tell if your right for medicine or not. Medicine is a hard field but don't make it seem like everything else is all rainbows and sunshine. If it was then we wouldn't have a board filled with hundreds of people trying to get into the profession. Also the practice of MEDICINE is very broad. There are many factors that go into how one will enjoy a job such as bosses and coworkers.

 

[usermike8500]

There are better, easier and quicker ways to earn money.

I challenge anyone on here to name one career path that represents a better, easier, and quicker way to earn a physician's salary, which averages a quarter million dollars per year, not to mention the high-paying fields of radiology, rad onc, and derm that all pre-meds are so enamored with.

 

[zidrem]

I personally wouldn't worry too much about the altruism issue; the way in which some people regard it as important (in this context) is such a crock of ****, to be honest.

Pretty much everyone who (usually patronizingly and self-righteously) presents their reason for wanting to be a physician is pretty much full of it, especially those who cite "wanting to help people." When it comes down to it, you can't truly know if it will fit without having done it; and you obviously can't have done it before applying to medical school. So we are presented with this paradox, which makes the question of "why" kind of ridiculous. Ultimately, our "fantasies" of what we expect the profession is like play into our reasons, regardless of how much "clinical experience" we've had.

I don't think that altruism is important, nor do I think that this is the kind of quality they are likely looking for. If I have a brain tumor that needs to be cut out, I really don't care if the surgeon is a kind, caring person; I just want him/her to be brilliant, hard working, and good at their craft. By and large, I feel as though the admission selections follow this train of thought - as often as people like to deny it, GPA and MCAT scores tip the scale more than anything else (by a long shot).

Unfortunately, you can't really reply to an adcom's prompts with "This is a ridiculous question," so you have to sort of synthesize a cohesive picture of the life experiences and influences that have (possibly) taken part in your decision.. but by no means do those have to speak to your altruism as a person. More than anything, try to clearly present experiences that make you seem interesting and earnest. I think the essays/interviews are mostly an exercise in whether or not you can communicate well; I feel like it doesn't really matter what your reasons are, so long as you can present them succinctly and eloquently.

 

[Kaustikos]

I challenge anyone on here to name one career path that represents a better, easier, and quicker way to earn a physician's salary, which averages a quarter million dollars per year, not to mention the high-paying fields of radiology, rad onc, and derm that all pre-meds are so enamored with.

Are we talking about the overall pay or yearly salary?

 

[DrYoda]

I challenge anyone on here to name one career path that represents a better, easier, and quicker way to earn a physician's salary, which averages a quarter million dollars per year, not to mention the high-paying fields of radiology, rad onc, and derm that all pre-meds are so enamored with.

It doesn't even average 200k. Sorry.

 

[Kaustikos]

It doesn't even average 200k. Sorry.

Some Pre-meds, I tell ya'. They think they're getting quarter million dollar salaries and a new ferrari in every garage.

 

[TMP-SMX]

I personally wouldn't worry too much about the altruism issue; the way in which some people regard it as important (in this context) is such a crock of ****, to be honest.

Pretty much everyone who (usually patronizingly and self-righteously) presents their reason for wanting to be a physician is pretty much full of it, especially those who cite "wanting to help people." When it comes down to it, you can't truly know if it will fit without having done it; and you obviously can't have done it before applying to medical school. So we are presented with this paradox, which makes the question of "why" kind of ridiculous. Ultimately, our "fantasies" of what we expect the profession is like play into our reasons, regardless of how much "clinical experience" we've had.

I don't think that altruism is important, nor do I think that this is the kind of quality they are likely looking for. If I have a brain tumor that needs to be cut out, I really don't care if the surgeon is a kind, caring person; I just want him/her to be brilliant, hard working, and good at their craft. By and large, I feel as though the admission selections follow this train of thought - as often as people like to deny it, GPA and MCAT scores tip the scale more than anything else (by a long shot).

Have fun with patients in M3. You do need to at least be able to fake that you care about your patients otherwise you are going to get sued by every patient you make a mistake with. Of course by faking it you may end up unhappy with being a physician if the negatives of being an intern or resident start to outweigh the good parts. Not everyone is a brilliant brain surgeon you know.

 

[atomi]

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[atomi]

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[Kaustikos]

Have fun with patients in M3. You do need to at least be able to fake that you care about your patients otherwise you are going to get sued by every patient you make a mistake with. Of course by faking it you may end up unhappy with being a physician if the negatives of being an intern or resident start to outweigh the good parts. Not everyone is a brilliant brain surgeon you know.

If socialized healthcare is a reality, and our income will take a large hit; why should we give a **** anymore?😛

They say these things because deep down inside they feel guilty about chasing the dollars. By pretending that doctors don't make a lot of money and lead a miserable existence of long hours for little pay, it makes them feel better about themselves. I'm struggling to think of why someone would leave the field of law for the field of medicine (both of which require many years of professional education), and I can only think of one. Law is a field that most people go into hoping to make enormous amounts of money, but in reality only a small percentage ever get to that partner level. Whereas medicine guarantees that hoped-for lifestyle and income even if you're not a partner and just a salaried employee. I can think of many reasons why someone would leave law for something else that doesn't require more years of extensive training, but for medicine, there's only one motivation. And the important thing is, there's nothing wrong with that. The only thing wrong is being made to feel guilty about it and make up completely untrue justifications that make medicine look like such a horrible career choice when in fact it is one of the best there is (although its cartel-like structure that makes it so good is just simply wrong).

There is a reason medical school is so competitive to get into.

I won't even bother to elaborate but will let someone else show you the stastics of people who make those high-paying salaries in medicine. Not to mention the average salarie isn't THAT high-paying as some of you presume. Also, take into account the fact that not everyone graduating from medical school will/wants to go into those specialized fields for the high pay. IM/Peds/etc etc are NOT high-paying and numerous people go into those fields (And I AM NOT insulting those specialties). The salary is comfortable/reliable, but don't forget the competition for those high-paying specialties (Step 1 scores, etc).

People need a reality check other than Law2Doc, because people aren't getting it.

 

[atomi]

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[Tin Man]

It hasn't been said yet, so I'll say it. "If you're interested in money and prestige, there are plenty of better career options than medicine." What those career options are, nobody knows.

You aren't looking hard enough, then.

Physicians average about 200K. Who else?

Politicians - FAR more prestige, easier money.
Military - Get high enough in the ranks with an important enough job, and you'll have both, plus great pay on the way up.
Plumber - What could be better than creating your own hours and being on call? Sure, the prestige isn't up there, until people figure out you're making 300K a year...
Scientists - of pretty much any make or model, depending on the work you do. After all, you have to do SOMETHING with that pre-med education.
Real Estate - You don't even have to leave your house.
Stocks - Once again, you don't have to leave the house. Therefore, you can create your OWN prestigious persona instead of letting your career do it for you.
CEO - of pretty much any successful company can easily make over 200K a year. And you get to say, "Yeah, you know that place? I own it." That's prestige.

Most of these careers pay better on the way to the top, and are FAR easier than getting a medial degree. You want to make money? Fair enough. Leave the medicine to the people that'll still be around when the money isn't there anymore.

 

[NotAndrew]

Additionally, it's worthwhile to mention that many types of doctors do not practice MEDICINE. Medicine is a specialty. Love of medicine or a desire to practice medicine is not a prerequisite for becoming an MD.

Try saying that in an interview, and see how fast you get rejected.

 

[andrewnwi]

Whatever you do, don't say that in an interview.

I triple dog dare you to say that to an interviewer!

 

[fizzle]

I challenge anyone on here to name one career path that represents a better, easier, and quicker way to earn a physician's salary, which averages a quarter million dollars per year, not to mention the high-paying fields of radiology, rad onc, and derm that all pre-meds are so enamored with.

Real estate appraiser. Do I win a prize?

Just pass a licensing exam (study time is nowhere near that of med school), have a couple years of experience, and establish a few connections, and voila! An appraiser that I work for makes over $400k a year, and this is already taking expenses such as office space into account. Granted, the hours are very tough (he works from 7 am in the morning until 9 pm at night, 7 days a week, which is longer than any medical residency program), but he does that by choice...he could scale down his hours and still easily make a physician's wages.

This is just one example...believe me, there are many careers that make more money with less education/commitment required.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Some Pre-meds, I tell ya'. They think they're getting quarter million dollar salaries and a new ferrari in every garage.

http://www.valuemd.com/physiciansalary.php

http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080909205410.htm

Yes family medicine only avgs $185,740 but they are not the only physicians.

You aren't looking hard enough, then.

Physicians average about 200K. Who else?

Politicians - FAR more prestige, easier money.
Military - Get high enough in the ranks with an important enough job, and you'll have both, plus great pay on the way up.
Plumber - What could be better than creating your own hours and being on call? Sure, the prestige isn't up there, until people figure out you're making 300K a year...
Scientists - of pretty much any make or model, depending on the work you do. After all, you have to do SOMETHING with that pre-med education.
Real Estate - You don't even have to leave your house.
Stocks - Once again, you don't have to leave the house. Therefore, you can create your OWN prestigious persona instead of letting your career do it for you.
CEO - of pretty much any successful company can easily make over 200K a year. And you get to say, "Yeah, you know that place? I own it." That's prestige.

Most of these careers pay better on the way to the top, Fair enough. Leave the medicine to the people that'll still be around when the money isn't there anymore.

Please you shouldn't be in medicine for the money but money is a large factor as most people on this board will agree.

1. Politicians start out at 40,000 since you have to work at the local level then you have to have the right characteristics to be a politician you have to be able to play the game. You can't do this by studying and taking extra circulars. Then it takes years to work your way up to the federal level.

Also the president only makes 400,000. And presidential campaigns are pretty expensive.
http://dcjobsource.com/presidentialsalaries.html

But of course that is far easier than getting a medical degree. Military is pretty much the same as politician.

Stocks and CEO well I don't have to make a long case to show why this is a bad comparison.

Scientists don't make in the six figures until they are working in an area for a couple of years and professors make 150,000 after working at the University for 20 or so years. And becoming a professor at a school that can pay you this much is as hard or in a lot of cases a LOT HARDER than it is to become a doctor.

 

[fizzle]

http://www.valuemd.com/physiciansalary.php

http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080909205410.htm

Yes family medicine only avgs $185,740 but they are not the only physicians.



Please you shouldn't be in medicine for the money but money is a large factor as most people on this board will agree.

1. Politicians start out at 40,000 since you have to work at the local level then you have to have the right characteristics to be a politician you have to be able to play the game. You can't do this by studying and taking extra circulars. Then it takes years to work your way up to the federal level.

Also the president only makes 400,000. And presidential campaigns are pretty expensive.
http://dcjobsource.com/presidentialsalaries.html

But of course that is far easier than getting a medical degree. Military is pretty much the same as politician.

Stocks and CEO well I don't have to make a long case to show why this is a bad comparison.

Scientists don't make in the six figures until they are working in an area for a couple of years and professors make 150,000 after working at the University for 20 or so years. And becoming a professor at a school that can pay you this much is as hard or in a lot of cases a LOT HARDER than it is to become a doctor.

The President makes $400,000? I thought it was around $300,000. And keep in mind that this does not include big cost factors such as housing and food, which he and his family gets for free. I mean, the President hardly has anything to spend his money on during those four years besides presents!

Not that I'm bemoaning his situation; it's certainly a difficult task to become a President and run the country, so I'm sure he deserves every dollar.