Should I take a year off?

[Evil_Abed]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Hi guys, I'm a frequent lurker and occasional poster, but I'd like to keep my main identity private, so I made this account to post here.

Current cGPA: 3.56
Current sGPA: 3.52
MCAT: 35S

Here's a little background info on me from HS (not that it matters, but it sorta shows what kind of student I am). I graduated 10th out of a class of 647 in HS and did extremely well on AP exams (I came into college with 35 credits from AP). I also had a very prestigious scholarship coming in to college. Unfortunately, a mixture of things beyond my control and bad decisions on my part resulted in bad performance in academics my first year and a half of college. Here's my GPA breakdown for each semester I've been here and explanations as to what went wrong:

Freshman Year
Semester 1: 4 credits---2.25

I originally had 13 credits but I withdrew from 2 classes and got another lab as an NC (No Credit) due to medical reasons. The two classes I left were ones I got at least a C in (and hence, didn't need to retake for my major).

Semester 2: 15 credits---1.59

I have no excuses for the way this semester went. I take full responsibility for what happened. I got severely addicted to WoW (an online game) and I basically ditched class everyday. My "day" started around 4 or 5 pm and I played WoW until around 5 or 6 am and went to bed...the cycle went on and on.

Sophomore Year
Semester 1: 15 credits---2.91

I was still addicted to WoW until about halfway through the semester. Then, everything about my situation hit me at once and I started working hard again. I went from having F's in all my classes to mostly B's and 1 C.

Semester 2: 18 credits---3.83 (note: 18 credits is the max you can take per semester under normal conditions at my university)

Junior Year
Semester 1: 20 credits---4.00

I took 20 credits this semester, including biochemistry (A+), physiology (A+), and physics I (A+). I received A's in my other classes (philosophy, music, and another biology).

I'm taking 19-20 credits (20 if I get into this seminar I want to get into; otherwise 19) this upcoming semester as well and I am confident that I will do well again. I'm planning on working hard and am hopeful that I will pull off a 4.0 again. I'm also taking a Kaplan MCAT course that meets 6 hrs/week.

My EC's:
-Music--12 years--I've been playing the trumpet for 12 years and the guitar for 4. I've been involved in music ensembles at the university.
-Research--Neuroscience lab--Been working here since May 2008 and may have a publication this upcoming semester
-Volunteering--3 hrs/week--ER for about 6 months; SICU this upcoming semester

The main thing I'm lacking is a leadership thing and I'm not really sure what would constitute that. I'm planning on tutoring for physiology or biochemistry this upcoming semester and beyond; would that count? I'm also working with a friend to found a magazine at my university; would co-founding and helping lead something like this count?

Okay, now that you have all that info, my question: Depending on if I pull off a 4.0 this semester (which I'm going to try to achieve again), my cGPA at the end of the semester will be 3.35 and my sGPA will be 3.22. I don't want to count my chickens before they hatch but I've done a little bit of MCAT review so far and feel confident about doing well on the real thing, which I'm planning on taking late April/early May. I'm going to work hard and am aiming for a score that's at least in the mid-30's range.

My question is, would it be a good idea for me to wait till the end of senior year to apply to med school? This would give me a year off to do research, etc. My cGPA and sGPA have the potential to reach 3.56 and 3.45ish respectively by the end of my senior year, and these are much better than what I currently have. This, I feel, will definitely improve my chances. Also, if I do take the year off, I plan on doing research, along with volunteering, etc. I've been looking into the NIH IRTA postbac program and will apply there and at other labs to get research and hopefully, a publication during that year; I feel that this also will boost my application.

I'm also worried about the workload I have this semester. The main thing I have going for me so far is the upward GPA trend and frankly, I don't know how helpful that will be if I do apply this cycle. I'm basically going to be in class or in the lab from 9-5 M-F, in addition to volunteering and the Kaplan class and studying on my own for the MCAT. I'm worried about being overwhelmed. I feel that I've proven to both myself and others that I can handle rough semesters based on the last two semesters (especially last semester) but this might be a bit too much for me to handle and I don't want to further jeapordize what I have going for me. These are all the reasons why I'm considering taking a year of between college and med school.

I apologize for the long post but I wanted to give you guys a good overview of myself so that you have an easier time coming up with suggestions. I'm especially looking forward to Mobius's reply; he/she has given a lot of good advice in other threads in this subsection. Anyways, I would greatly appreciate any suggestions people may have for me, especially regarding whether it would be suitable to apply next year instead of this year or if I should apply this year, what I should do in the short-term to improve my chances.

 

[Mobius1985]

My question is, would it be a good idea for me to wait till the end of senior year to apply to med school?

I'm also worried about the workload I have this semester.

I appreciate any suggestions people may have for me

I think you have a very realistic idea of what you need to do to have a successful application. If your goal is an admission in an allopathic medical school, you need that extra year of GPA-boosting As to be competitive and prove to adcomms that you are a completely different person now. Applying with a 3.56 cGPA and a mid-30ish MCAT score will make you competitive. Having really solid ECs will be important for you to compensate for the impression those first three semesters will give.

I share your concerns about overloading yourself this coming semester. Twenty hours of class is a big enough stress without adding on Kaplan classes, in addition. I had trouble keeping up with the Kaplan assignments with far less of a class load. To keep up your coursework, you will be forced to compensate by doing less of the "homework" your Kaplan instructor will give you to keep you on track for finishing the review of every pertinent subject. Don't burn yourself out and blow all the hard work that's made this last year so redeeming. I'd suggest you consider moving the Kaplan to summer, if at all possible, so you can concentrate on immersing yourself in MCAT prep with fewer distractions.

Your ECS are coming along nicely. I think that helping to found a magazine could qualify as leadership, as long as some of the ideas are yours, and you are acting to implement publication (and not just being the legwork-person for someone else's ideas).

The AMCAS application has a separate category for teaching/mentoring, but if necessary, IMO, some types of teaching qualify as leadership. Standing in front of a group and regurgitating knowledge, or being available for others to ask questions is not leadership. Inspiring, organizing, leading interactive discussions, drawing out shy people so they participate=leadership.

You only have 6 months of clinical experience now. I consider 1.5 years to be about average. If you wait until June '10 to apply, you'll have time to get in more than the expected amount of exposure, as well as have time to experience several different venues to give your experience more breadth (eg, not just ER and SICU, but also nursing home, clinic, or hospice care, etc. Don't forget to arrange some shadowing eventually.

For research a year of experience would be average. Already, you expect a publication. More will be frosting. And if you get an NIH gig, you'd have sparklers.

Your music experience shows teamwork and passion. Adcomms like to see that. Your sports will make you look well-rounded and show you have a healthy outlet for stress.

You will need to address your poor early performance in your essays. It should be a good story that reflects well on you, that you recognized your gaming addiction, how you beat it, how the experience makes you stronger, and maybe more empathic with future patients. If you want another leadership experience, volunteer to give talks on the subject. You're hardly the only one who's been in this position.

Overall, you're on the right track. Keep up the good work. Don't overestimate your capacity for producing excellent work.

 

[Evil_Abed]

Thanks for the reply Mobius. I really appreciate it. About the shadowing, I've shadowed a trauma surgeon on one of his clinic days (not allowed in OR) for 5 hours, but I'm planning on shadowing several physicians in different specialties this coming semester and summer.

At the moment, I am leaning heavily towards waiting a year. I can't really see any downsides to it. As for addressing my issues in essays, would it be better to address this issue on secondaries or would it be a good idea to spin a good PS out of what happened also? Also, your suggestion for giving talks on my experience is a good one; I'll look into it for sure. Once again, thanks a lot for your advice. I truly appreciate it and anything else you can toss my way.

 

[Mobius1985]

As for addressing my issues in essays, would it be better to address this issue on secondaries or would it be a good idea to spin a good PS out of what happened also?

I think it would best be left out of the PS unless it had something to do with why you want to be a doctor, as your more recent excellent academics will have redeemed you. I don't think that is a good place to put negative information that has nothing to do with your inspiration to become a physician. Most secondaries (that I got) had some question that allowed you to write an essay on challenges you overcame, blips in the educational pathway, a major stress and how you handled it, etc. If you are asked about it at interviews, and I'm sure you will be, you'll have a good answer worked out that puts you in a positive light.

 

[kmellowyellow]

My situation was a little different than yours, but I took a year off after college and absolutely did not regret it. I decided late that I wanted to do med school, so going straight in actually wasn't an option as it was already past the MCAT dates (back in the dark ages when there was only two!)

I think a year off was really good for me because it gave me a lot of perspective and enough time to get all my application ducks in a row. I took a summer EMT class and then worked for a year, volunteered as a chaplain in a hospital and traveled a lot. It was nice to have school out of the way and really focus my goals. I think this helped me a lot with the application process as I had more time to do everything, more ECs and a whole lot more to talk about in interviews.

As far as the consequences of taking a year off, I haven't had any problems. There's no need to worry about forgetting things because so much of what you learn is different than what you learned in college. I'm not the oldest in my class by far, and a lot of other people in my class waited a year as well.

In short, I think if you squandered your year it would show a lack of direction, but if you use it as an opportunity to do some things you've been wanting to or to strengthen your app, it's a great idea! 🙂

 

[Evil_Abed]

Hey guys, here's an update on this past semester for me:

I took 20 credit hours again and I received a 4.0 GPA again! So my cGPA is up to 3.35 and my sGPA is up to 3.28. I received A+'s in immunology, physiology (half our lecture notes were titled M1 physiology ), physics II, and a philosophy course on biomedical ethics. I got A's in my other 3 classes. In addition, I joined a club that provides medical check-ups for the uninsured; we check the BP, check blood glucose levels, do lipid profiles, etc. and refer patients to other free clinics/hospitals if their results indicate that they should see a doctor. All these procedures are done by us, so it's pretty hands-on.

I decided to take a year off and am currently studying for the MCAT, which I'm signed up to take on August 21. I did not get a publication last semester as I had originally anticipated but I finally have a project that's pretty much my own; it's part of a bigger project but at least I get to work somewhat independently. I'm hopeful that something good will come out of this. My days this summer are basically being in the lab for 4-5 hours per weekday and studying the rest of the time. I'm taking a Kaplan course (mainly because I'm worried if I study on my own, I'll get distracted easily; having a syllabus and schedule to follow will keep me focused, hopefully).

I'm signed up to take 20 credit hours next semester again; I've done really well these past couple semesters even with the heavy class load so I know I can handle it (what a boost in confidence this is!). I'm also planning on taking 20 credit hours for the spring semester as well.

Now that you guys are caught up, I have two more questions. One is that I'm currently getting paid for my research rather than getting GPA credit. If I do this for credit (5 credit hours most likely), my cGPA at the end of next year will have the potential to be 3.56 (assuming I get all A's again) and my sGPA will be around 3.51 or so. If I stick with getting paid rather than get GPA credit, my cGPA would be 3.54 and my sGPA would be 3.49 or so. My question is would it be better for me to do research this summer for credit instead of money? Or am I okay sticking with getting paid? I realize that the difference in GPA would only be 0.02 but the fact that my GPA will be below average is what's causing me to be a bit hesistant on this. I'm thinking that the minute difference wouldn't be much of an issue come application time, but I just want to confirm it.

The second one is regarding volunteering. I'm currently not volunteering over summer. I feel like I will not have the strength/patience to commute 30 minutes to the hospital (since the roommate with the car is gone, I have to rely on buses and their weird schedules), volunteer for 3 hours, and make a 30 minute commute back. Plus, I'm finding that research + studying is taking up a lot of time and I want to focus my attention on these two (especially studying for the MCAT). So would this be okay not volunteering this summer? I'll be back at it again during the school year. And I'm planning on shadowing a few more doctors this summer.

Anyways, sorry again for the long post. If anyone has any advice/tips on what else I can do to improve my chances, I would really appreciate it. Thanks a lot!

 

[Stratego]

1) My question is would it be better for me to do research this summer for credit instead of money?

2) So would this be okay not volunteering this summer? I'll be back at it again during the school year. And I'm planning on shadowing a few more doctors this summer.

Wow that was a lot to read through, but it's great to see that you're still on the intended track.

1) I had to make the same choice at one point and elected to get the credit, even though it cost me $3000 in tuition. Every tiny bit helps to the GPA go up.

2) It's understandable that the same opportunities will not be available over the summer, especially when so many institutions require 6 and 12 month commitments before they let you volunteer. You'll be fine just getting in some shadowing with all the rest you'll be doing.

 

[Mobius1985]

Thanks for checking in to let us know how things are going, krafty. Keep up the good work.

I, too, would go for the class credit for research, unless it's too unaffordable. It's fine to take a summer hiatus from volunteering when there's no available options close to home.

 

[dococ121]

do work.... do work!

i suggest u dont put footbag, or disc golf

 

[Evil_Abed]

Updating you guys. So, I got my MCAT scores back. I did pretty well, but it was lower than what I expected.

35S (13PS, 10VR, 12BS)

My practice AAMC range was from 35-39 and my average was between 36 & 37. But I'm happy with my score and there's no way that I'm going to sit through the hell of studying for this beast again for a slight chance in improving my score heh. I was hoping for something in the high 30s to counter my sub-par GPA, but I feel like a 35 should be okay. I guess it would lower my chances at Harvard, but as long as I get into an allopathic US school, I'll be happy.

In other news, I'm at 20 credits again this semester. I've been working on an independent project (that's part of a bigger project) in the lab since the middle of summer and will be contributing enough for a second authorship on the paper (which will likely be submitted next semester since it's probably going to take till nearly the end of the semester to finish this project).

I'm planning on shadowing an ophtamologist in the next week or two and I'm trying to contact some docs to set up shadowing over winter break at a bigger (more teaching-oriented) hospital near home. A big problem though is that once again, I couldn't spare enough time for volunteering at the hospital (due to taking the MCAT a few weeks after school started and then, being busy with another heavy science courseload). I realize that this hurts me but I couldn't get into the volunteering program after the deadline passed. I'm definitely going to volunteer over winter break and next semester though, so hopefully, it'll turn out okay.

One thing I'm a little unsure of is what exactly I want to do during my year off. I'm pretty sure I want to focus on research and I'd like it to be clinical or translational so I can get a taste of those kinds of research rather than doing basic science stuff again. However, I'm not sure how hard it would be for college graduates to get a clinical research position where they can make meaningful contributions. Also, from a while, I've been interested in radiation oncology (cancer has always interested me), but I feel like maybe I should spend the year doing research that's not limited to one field. Would it be a better idea to do research in Internal Medicine type topics such as CV disease, kidney disease, cancer (not rad onc) etc? Or would it be okay if I do end up working in a rad onc lab? My main reason for this worry is that if I do rad onc research and then change my mind later in med school (after getting in of course) about what specialty I want to go into, the rad onc research won't be as impressive. Looking forward to hearing from you guys, especially Mobius again. Thanks!

 

[aptwor]

Hi!
so my MCAT score is 34P and my gpa is around 3.6 (cumulative). I was wondering if I should take a year off if I want to get into a somewhat decent med school? Thankss!!!

 

[Pedie Packs]

You should start a new thread with more background info so the rest of us can better assess the situation....

i.e. are you a jr, soph? etc.

 

[KG216]

Updating you guys. So, I got my MCAT scores back. I did pretty well, but it was lower than what I expected.

35S (13PS, 10VR, 12BS)

My practice AAMC range was from 35-39 and my average was between 36 & 37. But I'm happy with my score and there's no way that I'm going to sit through the hell of studying for this beast again for a slight chance in improving my score heh. I was hoping for something in the high 30s to counter my sub-par GPA, but I feel like a 35 should be okay. I guess it would lower my chances at Harvard, but as long as I get into an allopathic US school, I'll be happy.

In other news, I'm at 20 credits again this semester. I've been working on an independent project (that's part of a bigger project) in the lab since the middle of summer and will be contributing enough for a second authorship on the paper (which will likely be submitted next semester since it's probably going to take till nearly the end of the semester to finish this project).

I'm planning on shadowing an ophtamologist in the next week or two and I'm trying to contact some docs to set up shadowing over winter break at a bigger (more teaching-oriented) hospital near home. A big problem though is that once again, I couldn't spare enough time for volunteering at the hospital (due to taking the MCAT a few weeks after school started and then, being busy with another heavy science courseload). I realize that this hurts me but I couldn't get into the volunteering program after the deadline passed. I'm definitely going to volunteer over winter break and next semester though, so hopefully, it'll turn out okay.

One thing I'm a little unsure of is what exactly I want to do during my year off. I'm pretty sure I want to focus on research and I'd like it to be clinical or translational so I can get a taste of those kinds of research rather than doing basic science stuff again. However, I'm not sure how hard it would be for college graduates to get a clinical research position where they can make meaningful contributions. Also, from a while, I've been interested in radiation oncology (cancer has always interested me), but I feel like maybe I should spend the year doing research that's not limited to one field. Would it be a better idea to do research in Internal Medicine type topics such as CV disease, kidney disease, cancer (not rad onc) etc? Or would it be okay if I do end up working in a rad onc lab? My main reason for this worry is that if I do rad onc research and then change my mind later in med school (after getting in of course) about what specialty I want to go into, the rad onc research won't be as impressive. Looking forward to hearing from you guys, especially Mobius again. Thanks!

First off, congrats on the 35S. Many students would kill for that score! As for the rad onc research... I don't think it would be something that isn't impressive, or that it would be looked down upon. Doing research (period) is a great experience. It's what you take away from it that counts. I'm a little confused about your one statement. You said if you change your mind after you are in med school about what specialty to pursue, that your research in rad onc may not be as impressive. Most go into med school with an open mind about the field they will pursue... I don't see how the field of research you participated in will somehow lose it's importance if for some reason you change your chosen field of practice.😕

Cancer is a field that affects everyone, and to do cancer research (or any other kind) would undoubtedly give you a lot of insight into the field AND give you plenty to discuss at interviews. Call me biased, but I go to school at a major cancer institute 🙄 I say if it interests you, go for it. I have never heard of cancer research being a negative factor in any way!

Good luck, I am sure you have a nice future lined up!🙂

 

[Evil_Abed]

Hi!
so my MCAT score is 34P and my gpa is around 3.6 (cumulative). I was wondering if I should take a year off if I want to get into a somewhat decent med school? Thankss!!!

Depending on your ECs, you should be okay if you apply broadly. However, I'd appreciate it if you started your own thread regarding your chances. Thanks!

First off, congrats on the 35S. Many students would kill for that score! As for the rad onc research... I don't think it would be something that isn't impressive, or that it would be looked down upon. Doing research (period) is a great experience. It's what you take away from it that counts. I'm a little confused about your one statement. You said if you change your mind after you are in med school about what specialty to pursue, that your research in rad onc may not be as impressive. Most go into med school with an open mind about the field they will pursue... I don't see how the field of research you participated in will somehow lose it's importance if for some reason you change your chosen field of practice.😕

Cancer is a field that affects everyone, and to do cancer research (or any other kind) would undoubtedly give you a lot of insight into the field AND give you plenty to discuss at interviews. Call me biased, but I go to school at a major cancer institute 🙄 I say if it interests you, go for it. I have never heard of cancer research being a negative factor in any way!

Good luck, I am sure you have a nice future lined up!🙂

Thanks for the response. I've actually been working in a neuroimmunology lab for more than a year and have my own project going on there currently, so I definitely already have some material to discuss at interviews. I just wasn't sure how well residencies regarded doing research in a different field (particularly in a ROAD specialty if I decided to go into IM or surgery or something instead) in case I change my mind in the future. I guess I'm thinking too far ahead and should just focus on getting getting a 4.0 again and getting into med school first heh.

I mean I'm interested in cancer immunotherapy and tumor immunology in general also, so my thought process was that doing a year of research in immunotherapy (which is more IM-style, if that makes sense) rather than radiation therapy (which seems like a more focused thing that isn't encountered much in other specialties) might be better. I don't know; I feel like I'm not making much sense right now.

My question regarding the ease/difficulty of attaining a position in a clinical lab would probably result in better responses in the Physician Scientist section of SDN. So I'll post it there if I don't get many responses here.

 

[KG216]

Depending on your ECs, you should be okay if you apply broadly. However, I'd appreciate it if you started your own thread regarding your chances. Thanks!


Thanks for the response. I've actually been working in a neuroimmunology lab for more than a year and have my own project going on there currently, so I definitely already have some material to discuss at interviews. I just wasn't sure how well residencies regarded doing research in a different field (particularly in a ROAD specialty if I decided to go into IM or surgery or something instead) in case I change my mind in the future. I guess I'm thinking too far ahead and should just focus on getting getting a 4.0 again and getting into med school first heh.

I mean I'm interested in cancer immunotherapy and tumor immunology in general also, so my thought process was that doing a year of research in immunotherapy (which is more IM-style, if that makes sense) rather than radiation therapy (which seems like a more focused thing that isn't encountered much in other specialties) might be better. I don't know; I feel like I'm not making much sense right now.

My question regarding the ease/difficulty of attaining a position in a clinical lab would probably result in better responses in the Physician Scientist section of SDN. So I'll post it there if I don't get many responses here.

No, I get what you are saying. 😳 Whatever you pick I'm sure will have a great impact on your future. Good luck!

 

[Mobius1985]

I just recently discovered that research done prior to med school can be entered into the ERAS application for residency, so you're ahead of me there, krafty. I think it's fairly easy to get hired by a research lab, especially at your undergrad institution, which is what I did between graduating and starting med school. The difficulty is getting paid more than $9.25 per hour for it and getting any benefits. When you are applying to residency, I think that any research background is going to help you. But you are right that the most selective residency programs seem to give you extra points if it is in your chosen field. If you want to strategize, Immunology research certainly seems to have near universal appeal and application. Keep in mind that you will be able to get involved again in research between your first and second year of med school, and if your research gig is at your home institution, you'll have the potential for continuing a project through the second year (I turned down a spot at the NIH for this reason). That might be the time to get involved in a more specific project related to your your future interests. And get a LOR from a renown researcher whose support could help you get into a good residency.

 

[Evil_Abed]

Hey guys, another update from me:

Fall 2009: 20 credit hours
Fall 2009 GPA: 3.98 (I got an A- in a 1 credit class...what a bummer)
Overall cGPA: 3.48
Overall sGPA: 3.43

I'm slightly disappointed that it wasn't a 4.0 again, but overall, it shouldn't affect my GPA by much. I'm taking 20 credit hours again next semester and if I get a 4.0 then, I should still be able to get the 3.56 cGPA that I originally had in mind.

This was a very busy semester for me since I took the MCAT partway through the semester. From then, it took a while to catch up with all my classes. Unfortunately, a side-effect was that I didn't get any volunteering in. However, I'm back to volunteering again this coming semester, so hopefully that break during this past summer and fall won't hurt me too much. I shadowed an ophthamologist though and that was a fun experience. I'm trying to set up some shadowing opportunities with radoncs and other specialties over this winter break.

I'm continuing with my project in my research lab and should be done with it sometime within the next month to month and a half. I'm expecting a 2nd authorship on the paper, so that should be good. There are also two "research days" coming up in April where I'm hoping to present posters at. In addition, there's an undergraduate research seminar series going on and I'm hoping to present my research at one of them. Would I be able to list that on AMCAS? I think if I get the two poster presentations and the seminar in, it would further boost my application.

I'm finishing up typing up my CV and have started looking at various labs at NIH and other universities/hospitals. I will start contacting PIs within the next two months (since I want to start working towards the middle/end of summer). I'm going to aim for clinical and translational labs, but I don't know how easy it would be attain a position due to not having any medical training. Mobius, I don't want to apply to a research lab at my institution since there's no affiliated teaching hospitals and thus, very little to no clinical research going on here. Plus, I'm not interested in most of the labs here that are doing any cancer-related research.

I'm having a bit of trouble understanding how to choose labs (ie. who are the "big shots," who are good mentors, what labs offer good opportunities for independent projects/publications, etc). It also seems a bit hard to gauge exactly what PIs are doing in a particular lab; other than looking at publications, a lot of PIs don't seem to have a good description on their websites regarding what they focus on. Any advice regarding that? Also, is there anything else I can do to improve my chances at gathering attention from clinical labs? I'm very well versed in physiology, cancer cell biology (got an A+ in that this semester 😀), immunology, tumor immunology, etc. and I feel like that should definitely help a lot.

Once again I'm stuck at trying to fulfill the leadership aspect that seems like an unwritten requirement for med school. Maybe I'm just looking at all the wrong places. I think I'm just going to meet my advisor (who has been great in guiding me these past 2 years) and ask her if she knows of any good opportunities. Other than that, everything else is going pretty well with me.

As always, any advice/comments/concerns would be greatly appreciated.

Oh, and Merry Christmas to all. 🙂

Edit: I'm wondering whether or not I should do a senior thesis this coming semester. It's basically going to be about my current project and completing a senior thesis allows me to graduate with distinction. Is a senior thesis beneficial in the application process? I'm asking because I feel like if I undertake it, it will take a considerable amount of time, and over these past few overloaded semesters, I have to come to realize how precious time is for me. If it turns out to not be beneficial, I might as well not do it and give myself that free time to hang out with friends/do nothing/etc. If I do end up doing it though, I think it'll further help my scientific writing, presentation skills, etc. So yea, I'm trying to decide whether to pursue this or not. Any advice regarding this would be great!

 

[Catalystik]

1) I'm expecting a 2nd authorship on the paper, so that should be good. There are also two "research days" coming up in April where I'm hoping to present posters at. In addition, there's an undergraduate research seminar series going on and I'm hoping to present my research at one of them. Would I be able to list that on AMCAS? I think if I get the two poster presentations and the seminar in, it would further boost my application.

2) I'm having a bit of trouble understanding how to choose labs (ie. who are the "big shots," who are good mentors, what labs offer good opportunities for independent projects/publications, etc). It also seems a bit hard to gauge exactly what PIs are doing in a particular lab; other than looking at publications, a lot of PIs don't seem to have a good description on their websites regarding what they focus on. Any advice regarding that? Also, is there anything else I can do to improve my chances at gathering attention from clinical labs? I'm very well versed in physiology, cancer cell biology (got an A+ in that this semester 😀), immunology, tumor immunology, etc. and I feel like that should definitely help a lot.


3) I'm wondering whether or not I should do a senior thesis this coming semester. It's basically going to be about my current project and completing a senior thesis allows me to graduate with distinction. Is a senior thesis beneficial in the application process?

1) One of the selections on the AMCAS pull-down menu is Presentations/Posters, so you can list it there.

2) If you can't get advice from your current PI, perhaps you could target a few labs on your own based on their current research and then talk with current investigators working there for further input. Word of mouth might be your best wy to get reliable information. I'm sure others might have better advice on this. As far as getting a place with a clinical project: Many hospitals with attendings doing clinical research have a Clinical Research Coordinator who oversees all the hospital's projects. This would be a good person to contact, if you want to inquire about positions, which may be volunteer or paid.

3) IMO, having a published paper trumps a formal senior thesis project. As far as the latter alone, it could be listed on the AMCAS application under "Other" if it didn't fit in elsewhere (like if the paper hadn't been published by the time you apply, and you wanted some credit for the hours and hours the project had taken) under your description of the "Research" itself. It has been a general opinion on SDN that doing a thesis and graduating with honors doesn't make much difference in the med school application process. It could potentially make a difference if you wanted to apply for a PhD someday. Maybe it would count if you were looking to be hired into an academic medicine position. I still think the published paper give you more "points", but others' opinions may vary.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

Just popping in to say how cool it was to read this thread and the progress you've made. 🙂 Good luck in the upcoming cycle, because I think you will be a fantastic applicant.

 

[Evil_Abed]

Hey guys, wanted to update you all on my most recent semester. I ended up taking 19 credits this past semester and got a 4.0 again. So, the way it stands, my GPAs are as follows:

cGPA: 3.55
sGPA: 3.50

In addition to that, I've got 2 poster presentations and an oral presentation (first author for all three...presented by myself for all three) from my research, which I was pretty happy about. So, my activities list looks like:

Music (trumpet/guitar) - 12 yrs
Research - 2 yrs
Poster/oral presentations - 3 total
Volunteering - 2 yrs
Shadowing - around 16 hrs
Cancer journal club (leadership activity) - several months
Disc golf (competitive sport) - 6 years
Dean's list - last 5 semesters (not sure if I should include this since I don't want to come off as trying to pad my resume)
Poster competition (Third place) - I don't know if I should include this as an award. I got third place and won a measly amount of money, but I'm still pretty proud/happy about it.

Not sure if I should include footbag in the list, since, even though I still play somewhat infrequently, it's been a little while since my last tournament. I can't think of anything else off the top of my head right now, but I think 9 should be an okay number of activities. I've been involved in certain other clubs and stuff, but I haven't put in enough effort in those to warrant putting them on the application. I'm a little nervous about the shadowing hours, but it's been incredibly hard to get physicians to let me shadow them (HIPAA stuff). And the semester's been busy enough that I couldn't really afford to travel several hours to the hospitals in Chicago for a few hours of shadowing. I'm going to try to get in a few more hours this week before submitting the AMCAS app though. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Now, the part I'm hoping to get some advice about: my school list. I'll be applying pretty broadly to mostly "mid-tier" schools due to my stats (my MCAT is good but my GPA is low). I've also included several reach schools since money isn't really an issue and I would be absolutely ecstatic if I lucked out at one of these schools (in particular, UMich). But I'm realistic. Let me know what you think:

Decent chance at (I think):
Einstein
Rochester
Case Western
SUNYs (all of them)
UWisc
Penn State
Wake Forest
SLU
Georgetown
MSU
Rosalind Franlin
UIC
Rush
Loyola
SIU
University of Kentucky
University of Maryland
Wayne State
Albany
Creighton
MCW
University of Nebraska
University of Nevada
University of Buffalo
University of Toledo
University of Oklahoma
Temple
George Washington
University of Louisville
Tulane
NYMC
Drexel
VCU
EVMS
University of Kansas

Reaches:
UChicago
Northwestern
UMich
Duke
Hopkins
Vanderbilt/Emory/UPenn

I might add the Texas schools depending on whether or not I get this Texas job I'm waiting to hear back from for my year off (I hear ties to Texas are important for those schools). I know it seems like a pretty long list of schools, but like I said, money's not much of an issue currently (especially when considering how much tuition, etc, are going to end up costing) since my parents are helping out. I tried to not include schools that take few OOS, but I might've missed one or two here and there. Let me know what you guys think of the school list I have and any suggestions on additions/deletions. Thanks a lot! 🙂

 

[Catalystik]

I see your MCAT score is 35S. What are the subscores?

 

[Catalystik]

I see that you didn't do much research on OOSers getting into public state schools.

With a 3.55/35, your LizzyM score is 71.5 = [MCAT score + (cGPA X 10)] + 1.
[School's score (using median acceptee stats) doesn't include the +1.]
(X%)=% matriculants that are from OOS.

Along with your reach schools and some safeties, I'd have suggested you consider some of these (being sure to keep an eye on bottom tenth percentile for BCPM GPA):

72/Emory (65%), Dartmouth (85%), NYU (60%), Ohio State (41%), UCSF (20%)
71/UCF (24%), USCal (28%), Boston (77%), Tufts (73%), SLU (70%), Einstein (52%), Rochester (52%),
70/Colorado (25%), UConn (17%), Georgetown (98%), Miami (26%), Iowa (35%), Maryland (23%), UMinn (21%), Stony Brook (15%), Wake (59%), Cincinnati (34%), Penn State (51%),
69/Loma Linda (49%), Loyola (55%), RFU (53%), UKentucky (30%), Creighton (89%), Albany (62%), SUNY Downstate (18%) Jefferson (60%), MCW (~65%)
68/UIllinois (27%), Wayne (17%), Buffalo (29%), Toledo (34%), Drexel (71%), Temple (52%), Vermont (72%), VCU (44%)

 

[Evil_Abed]

i see your mcat score is 35s. What are the subscores?

ps 13
vr 10
bs 12

 

[Evil_Abed]

I see that you didn't do much research on OOSers getting into public state schools.

With a 3.55/35, your LizzyM score is 71.5 = [MCAT score + (cGPA X 10)] + 1.
[School's score (using median acceptee stats) doesn't include the +1.]
(X%)=% matriculants that are from OOS.

Along with your reach schools and some safeties, I'd have suggested you consider some of these (being sure to keep an eye on bottom tenth percentile for BCPM GPA):

72/Emory (65%), Dartmouth (85%), NYU (60%), OhioState (41%), UCSF (20%)
71/UCF (24%), USCal (28%), Boston (77%), Tufts (73%), SLU (70%), Einstein (52%), Rochester (52%),
70/Colorado (25%), UConn (17%), Georgetown (98%), Miami (26%), Iowa (35%), Maryland (23%), UMinn (21%), Stony Brook (15%), Wake (59%), Cincinnati (34%), PennState (51%),
69/Loma Linda (49%), Loyola (55%), RFU (53%), UKentucky (30%), Creighton (89%), Albany (62%), SUNY Downstate (18%) Jefferson (60%), MCW (~65%)
68/UIllinois (27%), Wayne (17%), Buffalo (29%), Toledo (34%), Drexel (71%), Temple (52%), Vermont (72%), VCU (44%)

I'm a resident of Illinois, so I think I should be fine for the IL schools (I should have the greatest chance of interviewing at places like Loyola, UIC, Rush, etc). I based my other OOS schools on one of those excel spreadsheets I downloaded a while back. I'll double-check with the MSAR and definitely get rid of the schools that have a low OOS acceptance rate and add ones with a higher rate.

 

[Catalystik]

You know that SIU takes about 98% from downstate and central Illinois (south of I-80), right?

Each person's tolerance of OOS acceptance rates varies. Mine is about 15%, but others prefer 25%+. Yours might be considerably lower. Also, OOS acceptance rate can be misleading when all the OOSers taken are from regional states (like Nevada).

BTW, congrats on hitting your target stats from a plan made 1.5 years ago.

 

[Evil_Abed]

You know that SIU takes about 98% from downstate and central Illinois (south of I-80), right?

You caught me here heh. It's definitely a school I'm really on the fence about and, for the most part, I am leaning heavily towards not applying to it but I forgot to remove it from my list (which I had originally made a while back and just copied and pasted onto here). I must've missed it when I skimmed over the list before submitting the post.

Each person's tolerance of OOS acceptance rates varies. Mine is about 15%, but others prefer 25%+. Yours might be considerably lower. Also, OOS acceptance rate can be misleading when all the OOSers taken are from regional states (like Nevada).

I was actually thinking of asking this question regarding what OOS acceptance rate you would find acceptable (no pun intended) to apply to a particular school. Hmm, something to think about as I finalize my list for sure. Maybe I should shoot for schools with something around 20%. You bring up a good point about OOSers taken from preferred areas. I'll try to look into that tonight and see if I can get more info regarding that stuff before updating my school list tomorrow.

BTW, congrats on hitting your target stats from a plan made 1.5 years ago.

Thank you! 🙂 It's been a long, hard road, but I'm really happy that all the effort I put in paid off in the end. I only hope that this payoff continues through the application cycle. Hopefully, my upward trend and MCAT would slightly offset the below-average GPA and get adcoms to take a closer look at my app.

 

[Evil_Abed]

Just wanted to update you guys regarding my cycle.

I applied MD-only and got accepted to one of my top choice schools! I also have interviewed at several other schools and am waiting to hear back from them as well. I discussed my freshman year, and what I learned from that situation, in practically every secondary (even when they only had the "Tell us something we don't know about you..." prompt where practically everyone on SDN says that you should write something that's positive instead of drawing attention to any negatives).

It was brought up in most of my interviews, but I prepared well and every one of the interviewers seemed to be really impressed with the way I pulled myself out of that situation and what I've done over the past few years. They never showed any doubt in my ability to cope with the rigors of med school and beyond. In fact, one or two of them flat out said that they were 100% sure I wouldn't have trouble with the rigors of medical training. So, while my freshman did hurt, the experience of pulling myself out of that hole, IMO, has played a huge role in helping me get interviews and convincing adcoms that I can handle med school.

I'm very grateful that I've had a successful cycle so far and I thank you all for all the advice I've received. Wishing you all the best and a very happy Thanksgiving!

 

[Catalystik]

I applied MD-only and got accepted to one of my top choice schools!

A happy Thanksgiving indeed! Congrats.

 

[Evil_Abed]

This is likely my final update in this thread. Even with all the trouble I went through during undergrad, I ended up applying MD-only and getting 11 interview invites; attending 5 interviews and got accepted at 3 of the places I interviewed at. I will attending one of my top choices and my year-off conducting research has paid off huge dividends, so I couldn't be happier.

I just want to reemphasize that having a bad semester or year is not the end all, be all that SDN makes it out to be. If you work hard and pull yourself out of a crappy situation that you've been in, whether it's academic or not, you'd be surprised at how interested adcoms are at hearing your story; I actually got the sense that adcoms got a thrill out of hearing about someone digging themselves out of a hole rather than the 4.0, 40 student who's been perfect his/her entire life (of course, that's just the vibe I got on the trail and may not actually be true). My trouble during freshman year was brought up in every interview I attended (except for 1) and I wrote about it in every secondary that I could. Every adcom I discussed it with enjoyed the tale and was satisfied with my explanation and confident that I'd be successful in med school, residency, and beyond. I don't feel that it significantly affected my chances of interview at the vast majority of places (perhaps it wasn't good enough for places like UMich, UChicago, etc, where they get ridiculously talented people applying anyways).

So, don't feel dismayed about a rough semester. Continue to work hard and keep your focus on getting into med school. You don't have to get into Harvard med to be happy, trust me. I know it sounds really cliche but, honestly, there's a lot of truth to it. Hard work, time, and effort were what brought me out of the hole I dug myself in. Luck didn't really play a role in it, IMO.

YMMV. I thank everyone posting in this thread or sending me PMs for all their incredibly helpful advice and support. I don't know if I could've done it without SDN. Feel free to PM me if you'd like; just be aware that I log on like once a month, so don't be offended if I don't respond to you within a few days.

I wish you all the best and a successful upcoming cycle! 🙂