Should I take O.Chem Class before DAT's ?

[sailinx]

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Hello All,

I would like to get some input regarding this matter. I am a non-traditional student and I hold a fulltime (actually 40+ hours) job. I have a M.S. in Electrical Engineering with 3.7/4.0 GPA. I am starting the pre-reqs this summer for Dental School. I am planning to take DAT in May 2005 and would be applying for 2006 cycle.

Due to my work schedule and other commitments (Family, Shadowing, Volunteering etc.), I may not be able to take O. Chem before the DATs. I would be done with my General Chem and Bio Classes before DATs.

Now question,
1. Can I prepare myself for O. Chem by reading the Text book (I do have some background in O. Chem but I definitely need to prepare in more detail). Just to give you a little background, I was able to study and understand Biology-I (I have no undergraduate background in Bio) from the text book (Life: by Purve) in about 1.5 months without any guidance (I am not claiming I remember everything but I definitely understood) and General Chemistry I & II in another 1.5 months.

The other attraction for me to do O. Chem on my own for DAT is that it will give me more time to prepare for DAT (As I won't be tied to the class schedule and O. Chem labs etc). I will be taking O. Chem-I in the Summer of 2005 so that I can send my O.Chem grades to the Dental School.

As being professional for such a long time, I do manage my time fairly well.

2. Do you guys think I can manage O.Chem on my own ?

3. Is there anything on DAT which I can only get from O.Chem Lab ?

4. If I can study on my own, what would be a good text book (I have Organic Chemistry by L.G Wades).

I would appreciate your input.

Thanks

 

[bwyeth]

if it were me, i would definitely try to take o chem. the dat science section has 30 o chem questions on it, to compliment 40 bio and 30 gen chem questions. the difference for me for ochem, was that unlike bio and gen chem, i had no background in it at all, so it was pretty new and foreign material. it would have been harder for me to teach myself. you know best, though, how well you will grasp the concepts. if it was me, though, i would take the class. good luck.

 

[aggie-master]

I'm in the same situation as you as a non-traditional student, and based on advice that I've received on this board, I'm going to take O-chem I & II over the next year before taking the DAT early next summer.

 

[UNLV OMS GUNNABE]

Having taken the DAT with only 1 month of o-chem under my belt I think I can answer your question. First of all, if possible bag the biochem and replace it with ochem. There isn't any biochem on the DAT.

Ochem is definately a lot of work but I think that if you did well reading the book for gen chem and biology you could do it. I do well reading the books as well. Some people can't do it, we're all different.
One plus for me was that I was a TA for gen chem. I was surprised how many gen chem concepts showed up in the ochem section. Simple things like what is more electronegative. My ochem score was a 17. Not bad for one month of it and zero studying. The questions I knew I nailed. All the rest, I just picked the prettiest structure. 🙂 no joke. I ended up finishing #1 in the fist semester of ochem and tied for 3rd the second semester so I just had my ochem proffesor write a letter that said I could handle ochem. I think it made up for the 17.
No, there isn't anything from lab that you need for the DAT. It's all in the book/class
Bottom line, if you are a logical person and do fine with the books then do it. I wouldn't wait and apply late, too many people get killed by doing that. I did.
MAKE SURE YOU KNOW THE BASIC CONCEPTS.

 

[sailinx]

I'm in the same situation as you as a non-traditional student, and based on advice that I've received on this board, I'm going to take O-chem I & II over the next year before taking the DAT early next summer.

What kind of course load are you planning to take in Fall and Spring ? Do you think you will have enough time to prepare for DAT ? Also my understanding is that O.Chem on DAT is really from the first Semester ?

 

[UNLV OMS GUNNABE]

You're right. Most ochem is from the 1st semester.

 

[Calculus1]

Hello All,

I would like to get some input regarding this matter. I am a non-traditional student and I hold a fulltime (actually 40+ hours) job. I have a M.S. in Electrical Engineering with 3.7/4.0 GPA. I am starting the pre-reqs this summer for Dental School. I am planning to take DAT in May 2005 and would be applying for 2006 cycle.

Due to my work schedule and other commitments (Family, Shadowing, Volunteering etc.), I may not be able to take O. Chem before the DATs. I would be done with my General Chem and Bio Classes before DATs.

Now question,
1. Can I prepare myself for O. Chem by reading the Text book (I do have some background in O. Chem but I definitely need to prepare in more detail). Just to give you a little background, I was able to study and understand Biology-I (I have no undergraduate background in Bio) from the text book (Life: by Purve) in about 1.5 months without any guidance (I am not claiming I remember everything but I definitely understood) and General Chemistry I & II in another 1.5 months.

The other attraction for me to do O. Chem on my own for DAT is that it will give me more time to prepare for DAT (As I won't be tied to the class schedule and O. Chem labs etc). I will be taking O. Chem-I in the Summer of 2005 so that I can send my O.Chem grades to the Dental School.

As being professional for such a long time, I do manage my time fairly well.

2. Do you guys think I can manage O.Chem on my own ?

3. Is there anything on DAT which I can only get from O.Chem Lab ?

4. If I can study on my own, what would be a good text book (I have Organic Chemistry by L.G Wades).

I would appreciate your input.

Thanks

I would give up the volunteering and shadowing to make time for O Chem. You only need about a month of hard core studying or ~250 hours to score well, esp if you're taking O chem that close to the time you're taking the DAT. Another thing is, you'll have to take it at some point, and why put yourself at a disadvantage?

 

[wimmcs]

I have to agree with most people that you probably want to tackle OChem prior to the DAT. I'm a non-traditional student as well, so all I need is the pre-reqs in order to apply. I tried to take the DAT with only one semester, but I found it difficult since we hadn't really covered many functional groups. It wasn't until 2nd semester organic that we learned most of the functional groups and a ton of reactions and I now feel comfortable taking the DAT no problem. Since you had exposure in the past, it may come to you easier than many of us, but I found this subject matter much different than biology and gen chem in terms of learning and teaching it to yourself. It's doable I think, but it can get very tough without some guidance. Good luck!!

 

[crazytrain]

I would also give up shadowing and volunteering. They are just a waste of your time anyway. Stick with your full work load, take some classes here and there, and definitely take ochem 1 before the DAT. I really think you can teach part 2's material to yourself via the kaplan blue book.

 

[sxr71]

You have a lot on your plate, and as others have mentioned that the item that will have the least impact on the quality of your application is the volunteering. Shadowing is very good to do, but 30 hours meets the requirements for every school as far as I know. You can take more than the minimum 30 hours for your sake, but in the interest of prioritizing your activities avoid doing more than 30 hours of shadowing.

As a non-traditional applicant myself, I have some understanding of your situation. One thing I know for a fact is that every school will have tremendous respect for you, because of the high GPA you acheived while working full time. Bring that out during your interview and they will be willing to overlook a lot for you (if they even need to in your case, as seems like you won't have anything that they will need to overlook). Just the fact that you are working full time + taking classes will more than make up for any perceived weaknesses in extra-curriculars (again, not that you have any weaknesses in those areas).

My point is basically not to overload yourself, you are already at a great advantage.


Getting to the crux of your question, I think that you should at least take the first semester of OChem. The second semester is almost not needed for the DAT. You'd really be better off either scheduling OChem I for Spring 05 or postponing your DAT. I would prefer the former as it gives you the option to retake the DAT in time for the 2006 cycle just in case you want to. Taking OChem I before taking the DAT is strongly suggested.


All that having been said you might be able to learn what you need on your own given that you have covered OChem before during your previous education. I can tell you right now that it will likely be one of the hardest things you have done, but it can be done. I suggest that you spend two weeks covering OChem I material on your own and then taking a diagnostic DAT practice test to see where you stand. If you have a reasonably decent OChem score, then you can decide to go all out with your decision to study on your own. If you are not happy with your level of understanding then you know that you should take the class to get the results you want. Since you have completed your review of General Chemistry I suggest you do this as soon as possible so you can make a decision before this summer. This way you will have retained all your options in terms of scheduling Ochem for Spring 05 if you come to the conclusion that you should take it before you take the DAT.

So anwsering your questions in order:

1. It's possible but not recommended.

2. Whether you can prepare on your own or not depends on how satisfied you are with your understanding of DAT OChem as evidenced your practice test score and evaluation of your mistakes.

3. Not really, OChem Lab for me actually helped me understand some basic concepts much better, but it isn't necessary.

4. I can't help you much here since the testbook we used was terrible as even some of our professors will tell you. This may seem unorthodox, but really if you read the Kaplan Blue Book OChem section, it actually explains in sufficient detail everything you need to know for the test. There isn't really anything that would be on the test that isn't in the Kaplan Blue Book. It tells you very simple terms how to determine R and S configurations, how to assign E and Z configurations to molecules. It goes through the basic carbonyl group oxidation and reduction sequences, it tells you everything you need to know about Electrophilic Aromatic Substitution regarding activating, deactivating groups, electron donating, electron withdrawing groups and their relationships to substitution position. Basically everything you need to know is in there, and presented in the most high yield format possible. This is what I suggest for you to use for the two weeks before you take that diagnostic test. If you have excellent understanding and retention abilities you might do very well and you will have your answer.

 

[HBomb]

Wow, popular thread.

Nice post sxr71.

I just want to comment on questions 3 and 4, since 1 and 2 got covered a lot.

3. There is nothing in lab that you can't learn on paper (at least for the DAT). The lab work can put things into perspective, if you know what you're doing, but my ultimately lab isn't needed to do well on the DAT. I do believe though that OChem lab is a requirement for just about all dental schools, so it's something I don't believe you can skip out on.

4. I used Wade, and I think it is a good book OChem book. I can only speak from my experience. I have never used another OChem book, but I used the Wade and the Kaplan blue book, and that was more than adequate for the OChem section. Keep the Kaplan blue book in mind when trying to determine if something is in scope/out of scope for the DAT. Wade will have way too much material.

 

[snarlytooth]

are u kidding me? definitely take this class.... it is very important on the dats. (1/3 of your science score)

 

[sailinx]

Thanks everyone, I appreciate everyones feedback. It seems like that everyone is overwhelmingly in favor of taking O. Chem before DAT.

I will now definitely re-work my schedule (reduce the shadowing hours, volunteering etc.) and try to take O. Chem in Fall and Spring.

Do you guys think, its manageable to prepare for DAT between August 2004 and May 2005 with the following load,

1. Full time job (40+)
2. Bio -1 & O. Chem-1 (in Fall), Bio-2 & O. Chem-2 (in Spring) (I am assuming that these classes will take alot of time, especially the labs and lab reports etc.)
3. Some more shadowing (I already have 25+ hours)

I also need to prepare for other sections on DAT (PAT, QR, RC).

I am not too much worried about QR as I have enough math background but I still need to brushup and focus on increasing my speed.

Another question I have is as with my schedule (specially work), is it OK for me to take these classes at different schools i.e. In Fall, Is it OK to take Bio-1 in School-A and O.Chem -1 in School-B. How would adcom look at this ? ( I am not looking to get any degree from either school as I already have B.S and M.S).

Thanks again to everyone for thoughtful and detailed replies.

 

[UNLV OMS GUNNABE]

Full time job is tough, but with just those two classes you should be fine. My worst semester ever was: 20 hr a week job, 16 hours of class (including ochem, molecular bio, genetics and more), and newely married. I did just fine.
You definately don't need more than a couple of months to prepare. My question is what is your family situation. I am married with one kid. You can definately pull it off as long as your spouse (if married) supports you. You arn't as bad off as it seems. I'm sure you will do fine.
Good luck.

 

[Col Sanders]

I took the DAT almost two years after taking the first Ochem (so I couldnt remember anything) and without taking the second Ochem, fortunately if you have a good chem background it can pull you through. It was my lowest score on the DAT but I still got a 17.
My hardest year was 40hrs a week for work and 12 hours of school (generals, w/1st chem and 1st Bio), fortunately I was not married yet and I was in long distance relationship with my future wife, so I had very little distractions except for the weekend trips. Looking back, I felt tougher the harder the schedule got and wanted to see if I could handle such a load. I definitely got worn out by that year and decided that I dont want to have to work that hard. Thats one reason I am going into dentistry (4 day work weeks).

 

[HBomb]

Thanks everyone, I appreciate everyones feedback. It seems like that everyone is overwhelmingly in favor of taking O. Chem before DAT.

I will now definitely re-work my schedule (reduce the shadowing hours, volunteering etc.) and try to take O. Chem in Fall and Spring.

Do you guys think, its manageable to prepare for DAT between August 2004 and May 2005 with the following load,

1. Full time job (40+)
2. Bio -1 & O. Chem-1 (in Fall), Bio-2 & O. Chem-2 (in Spring) (I am assuming that these classes will take alot of time, especially the labs and lab reports etc.)
3. Some more shadowing (I already have 25+ hours)

I also need to prepare for other sections on DAT (PAT, QR, RC).

I am not too much worried about QR as I have enough math background but I still need to brushup and focus on increasing my speed.

Another question I have is as with my schedule (specially work), is it OK for me to take these classes at different schools i.e. In Fall, Is it OK to take Bio-1 in School-A and O.Chem -1 in School-B. How would adcom look at this ? ( I am not looking to get any degree from either school as I already have B.S and M.S).

Thanks again to everyone for thoughtful and detailed replies.

I took classes at a bunch of local junior college, and it didn't seem to affect my application at all. I got my interviews, and the question never came up in an interview. The only pain was that after the interviews, a lot of schools wanted official transcripts (not just from AADSAS), so it was a pain contacting all the schools for transcripts over and over again.

If you're _motivated_, even with a busy schedule, you can find time to study for the DAT.