Sigh...No interviews yet... Is it even possible to gain admission now?

[Chanieish]

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A little bit about me.

I am from the Philippines and went to UC Berkeley. Took a year off after graduating to gain more clinical/research experience.

Graduated with honors, 3.75 sGPA 3.73 cGPA (GPA in 3rd and 4th years were 4.0) and 35 MCAT, CA resident.

As for EC's I have 3 semesters of research (no pubs), started a foundation in the Philippines to fund medical treatments in public hospitals (has been going strong for 3 years), taught a Bio lab for one semester in college, volunteer work in the ER and orthopedic units in the Philippines for a combined 200+ hours, shadowed an orthopedic surgeon, neurosurgeon and a neurologist in the Philippines for over 300 hours in public and private hospitals, leadership in a campus club for 2 semesters.

I applied to 20+ schools, all my instates ones and bunch reach schools (one can dream) and some "safeties". I know there really aren't any safeties in med.

Submitted AMCAS in august, secondaries in Sept/Oct. Late I know.

So here is the list:
UCLA
UCI
UCD
UCSF (dreaaaaming. 🙂 )
UCSD
Loma Linda
USC
Stanford
Harvard
Columbia
JHU
Wash U
Yale
U Mich
Rosalind Franklin
Drexel
Temple
Tufts
BU
Mt Sinai
Rochester
NYMC
SUNY Buffalo

Received 2 rejections so far (UCD and Rochester).

On hold in UCSD and UMich.

No word from the rest.

Sent all of them update letters. Doing additional volunteer work and research now.

Sorry to vent, but my parents don't really understand how hard the application process is.

Do I still have a chance at interviews? Acceptances? I'm readying myself for reapplication. Will definitely submit my apps in June this time around. 🙁

 

[305602]

This scares me

 

[Chanieish]

I'm so scared too. 🙁

Maybe I should retake MCATs?

 

[anfleisch]

Problem is likely school selection. Vast majority of the 20 are at the tip top, which cannot be counted on. Many of your few safeties like drexel and NYMC would assume you would never come as a high stat west coaster and they have only so many people they can interview. So then it comes down to the couple of mid tier schools that could be interested in you, and your probability of an interview and acceptance at each was like 10% or so.

 

[ArkAngel]

My conclusion would be that there is something fundamentally wrong with your application. Could be a red flag in your essay or primary application or one of your LOR's. That is seriously the only reason I can imagine why someone with your stats would not have at least one interview by now.

 

[Chanieish]

Yeah, I was hoping the some of the UC's would give me a chance.

 

[Chanieish]

My AMCAS essay was well-written, compelling but still modest. I had at least 20 people including english professors, physicians, friends and my research professor.

I even paid $200 for some website to read it lol.

 

[rhesuspieces]

Maybe I should retake MCATs?

Uh, no. A 35 is excellent. You'll look like a fool if you retake that.

You're a CA applicant, and that puts you at a slight disadvantage. It seems like you applied to a decent bunch of schools, though. Like edozie said, there might be some red flags on your app. Bad personal statement? Weak LORs? Extremely unbalanced MCAT (e.g. less than 10 in one section)?

Or it could be that you're just one of those rare qualified applicants who fell through the cracks.

 

[Chanieish]

BS: 13 PS: 12 VB: 10. Slightly unbalanced.

The only thing out of my control were the LORs. No idea what was written in them. However, the orthopedic surgeon said he wrote me the best he has ever written (a really nice person, my mentor), once science LOR was written by the professor I worked under as a TA (also described by letter was amazing, another by my research professor whom I have been with for 3 semesters said he would be more than happy to write me and LOR and the last was from my music teacher, she's awesome.

Like I said however, I don't know what is in them.

 

[ArkAngel]

People can always say one thing and do another so it's possible that one of your LOR writers, despite the best intentions, mentioned something that did not sit well with the adcoms. Regardless, many places are still sending out interview invites so continue to hold the faith.

 

[OrangeandMaroon]

Ring the schools that have rejected you and politely ask for an explanation.

 

[cyanide]

Problem is likely school selection. Vast majority of the 20 are at the tip top, which cannot be counted on. Many of your few safeties like drexel and NYMC would assume you would never come as a high stat west coaster and they have only so many people they can interview. So then it comes down to the couple of mid tier schools that could be interested in you, and your probability of an interview and acceptance at each was like 10% or so.

This. Most of the schools on your list are top-tier, and several of the ones that aren't are known for axing large numbers of qualified applicants because they get too many apps (BU, for example).

There's still a chance that you could hear back from somewhere this cycle, but if not, I think revising your school list and applying earlier (secondaries by July/August) would really help you out. The rest of your application looks fantastic, from what you've shared. Good luck!

 

[Chanieish]

So if I do reapply and I ask for letters from the same individuals, then won't I be in the same boat. I'd love to give them the benefit of the doubt though. 🙁

I called UCD and they said they do not give out information about the application process. 🙁

Thanks for all the messages of hope. 🙂

 

[305602]

Submitted AMCAS in august, secondaries in Sept/Oct. Late I know.

Oh didn't read this the first time around. This is your issue.

 

[1Q84]

Problem is likely school selection. Vast majority of the 20 are at the tip top, which cannot be counted on. Many of your few safeties like drexel and NYMC would assume you would never come as a high stat west coaster and they have only so many people they can interview. So then it comes down to the couple of mid tier schools that could be interested in you, and your probability of an interview and acceptance at each was like 10% or so.

+1

Apply with a broader selection.

 

[LizzyM]

I'd say it is the list more than the the application that is at fault here. Rather than Yale,Columbia, Wash U, Harvard,JHU, you'd have been better off with Duke, Northwestern, U Chicago, Georgetown (despite the large number of applies), Pittsburgh, & Case Western. What about Tulane & St. Louis U?

Applying to all of the California schools was a waste of time. Loma Linda?? really? Stanford? Pick the 3 that you are best suited to and put your efforts and resources elsewhere.

 

[Chanieish]

How do I apply broader?

I've scoured the MSAR and thought I applied to good match and safeties as well. 🙂

 

[Chanieish]

Thanks LizzyM, I'll definitely keep those schools in mind when applying next cycle.

I applied to all California schools because I love California and thought I had the best chance at UCs. And Stanford, well, I love the area. 🙂

 

[LizzyM]

How do I apply broader?

I've scoured the MSAR and thought I applied to good match and safeties as well. 🙂

The thing about safeties is that you don't want to go "too low" or the school says, "we're a safety, he won't really come here so let's not waste an interview slot".

You should have applied to at least 13 schools that had a an average gpa times 10 plus average MCAT that sums to between 71 and 73. Further winnow the list by eliminating those that do not interview out of state applicants in large numbers. Get out that MSAR and look again.

 

[Chanieish]

Thanks LizzyM. Will do.

Where did you get the numbers 71 to 73? A scale based on my application?

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks LizzyM. Will do.

Where did you get the numbers 71 to 73? A scale based on my application?

based on your MCAT and gpa. You want to focus your applications where you'd be "average" not solely those schools where you are above average or below average which it appears is what you did.

 

[Chanieish]

You are right.

Aside from the UC's, USC, Sinai, Rochester, Temple and Tufts, others were lower and higher.

Great advice for next cycle (which I hope I won't have to endure.)

 

[gravitywave]

1) you were late. filling out secondaries in October is a no no.

2) you say you are from the Philippines. What's your residency/citizenship status? If you aren't a US citizen and don't have a Green Card, some schools (UCs, Drexel, Mich) won't even look at you.

and yes, the list was top-heavy.

 

[Holderlin]

This scares me

This WTF.

I guess they are all really good schools though, but I would think a few interviews would be a given.

When you apply is really that important?

or maybe this

LOR #1:

To Whom it may concern,

This kid is half ******ed

sincerely,

Dr. Acehole

 

[wanderer]

My own personal experience is that most of my OOS and private "safeties" did give me an interview (and I have a higher MCAT and GPA than the OP). I also made sure to write optional essays whenever I could and submitted most secondaries within ~3 days of receiving them. I don't know if those helped but I imagine that they did.

Also your school list is not good. Drexel doesn't interview too many people outside the northeast, and I'd imagine that BU, Tufts, and Temple are similar although maybe slightly less biased. Also I think you should have added more "mid-tiers" since they tend to be more geographically diverse. SUNY Downstate and Upstate would have been good schools to add as well.

 

[Chanieish]

Gravitywave:
1.) Seriously regret applying late. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20
2.) US citizen and CA resident. 🙂

Hahaha Holderlin! I might be 2/5 ******ed, but certainly not 1/2


Sent in update letters as well. Just in case they were still interested. 😛

 

[g8orlife]

BS: 13 PS: 12 VB: 10. Slightly unbalanced.

😕 👎

Uh, no. A 35 is excellent. You'll look like a fool if you retake that.

👍

 

[wanderer]

Uh, no. A 35 is excellent. You'll look like a fool if you retake that.

I know of someone who retook a 35, had a significant improvement, and things worked out well for him. That said I don't think that's something generally worth doing.

 

[panasonic52]

So if I do reapply and I ask for letters from the same individuals, then won't I be in the same boat. I'd love to give them the benefit of the doubt though. 🙁

I called UCD and they said they do not give out information about the application process. 🙁

Thanks for all the messages of hope. 🙂

If you're using an online system like Interfolio to submit your LORs, then you don't need to ask the individuals again. You can just send in the same ones from this cycle.

 

[Chanieish]

I didn't use interfolio. 🙁

Just uploaded the letters onto AMCAS.

 

[LizzyM]

Retaking the MCAT would be nuts.... it would be too easy to score a 32 the second time just by luck of the draw. Also, people will ask, "why did he retake a 35, is he some kind of gunner?"


A 35 is fine. Run with it but get the AMCAS out in June, secondaries in July, and look at more private, mid-tiers.

 

[Hemichordate]

I'd say it is the list more than the the application that is at fault here. Rather than Yale,Columbia, Wash U, Harvard,JHU, you'd have been better off with Duke, Northwestern, U Chicago, Georgetown (despite the large number of applies), Pittsburgh, & Case Western. What about Tulane & St. Louis U?

Duke, U Chicago, Pitt, and Northwestern are about as good as the first 5 (at least Yale and Columbia). I don't see how he would be better off applying to those instead.

 

[nicolemeooow]

OP, if this cycle doesn't turn out too good, try Pitt, Case and Univ of Cincinnati next time. But don't give up hope! It's not over yet

 

[hopki099]

I think MCW and Creighton are pretty friendly towards CA residents.

 

[Signifier]

Duke, U Chicago, Pitt, and Northwestern are about as good as the first 5 (at least Yale and Columbia). I don't see how he would be better off applying to those instead.

Would like to hear LizzyM's thoughts on this.

 

[Geneticist]

/glad he's not a CA resident

 

[DonutShot]

My own personal experience is that most of my OOS and private "safeties" did give me an interview (and I have a higher MCAT and GPA than the OP). I also made sure to write optional essays whenever I could and submitted most secondaries within ~3 days of receiving them. I don't know if those helped but I imagine that they did.

Also your school list is not good. Drexel doesn't interview too many people outside the northeast, and I'd imagine that BU, Tufts, and Temple are similar although maybe slightly less biased. Also I think you should have added more "mid-tiers" since they tend to be more geographically diverse. SUNY Downstate and Upstate would have been good schools to add as well.

Drexel, Temple, and BU both interview a lot of people from California. Although it's still a complete toss up but these schools aren't the schools that think you won't matriculate there because you're from sunny California. Many people from California end up at these schools.

The OP still has some time. Many of the UCs interview into April and many of the schools such as Drexel and Temple interview well into April as well.

And contrary to what all of SDN thinks, yes submitting your stuff in August and secondaries in Sept./Oct. isn't early, but many people still do that and still get in.

 

[LizzyM]

Duke, U Chicago, Pitt, and Northwestern are about as good as the first 5 (at least Yale and Columbia). I don't see how he would be better off applying to those instead.

I suggested those because they are good schools outside the Boston to DC corridor. It seems that some people don't think outside the coastal cities and they are short-sighted, IMHO. A 3.7, 35 is about avg for those schools or at least in the ball park.

 

[Triplet]

Many are telling the OP to go apply for mid-tier schools, aside from applying early, what is it about the application that he is lacking in order to not have good chances at the top-tier schools?

 

[LizzyM]

Many are telling the OP to go apply for mid-tier schools, aside from applying early, what is it about the application that he is lacking in order to not have good chances at the top-tier schools?

It is psychological but 3.80 beats 3.79....

Although the difference is negligible, the luck of having one point more in each section of the MCAT would have put him at a 38 rather than 35.

3.8/38 would beat 3.75/35.

If we get past that, some people might criticize reserach without a paper or presentation after so long....

Some people might want to see more activities in the US and less emphasis abroad (going to be a physician here or there??).

If there are very few activities during the academic sessions (e.g. all volunteerism and shadowing is abroad during breaks) then some may wonder if the applicant can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can find people who achieved the same gpa while working 20 hrs/wk or running a non-profit or a daily school newspaper, or some other major undertaking.

Other reasons for not being invited to interview:

There might be a "bad" letter... rare but it happens. The AMCAS essay might be insincere, trite or boring. There might be a lot of grammatical errors in the experience descriptions or other evidence of sloppiness in the secondaries. The secondaries might be a cut & paste job from the AMCAS essay which often makes it seem that the applicant hasn't any original thoughts and keeps recycling a ghostwritten document.

 

[PrinceVersed]

I would kill to have those stats. I really hope some school gives you a shot.

 

[Chanieish]

In reply to LizzyM and indirectly to Triplet.

Yes, definitely getting a 38 is better than a 35. Three points however is quite a jump, even if it only means 1 point per section.

As for clinical experience abroad, I definitely mentioned that in secondary essays, explained the pros of more global experience in terms of opportunity (I get to watch/assist in neurosugeries, work in the ER, start a foundation for the poor, etc.) and perspective and reasoned why I would choose to practice in the US vs. the Philippines, as selfish as that may sound.)

True, I did not hold a job, or was not head of a non-profit institute, but I did hold leadership positions in my club for a couple of semesters, while teaching a gen bio lab. Then I went on to concentrate on research. No pubs according to my professor because I did "pioneering work" or a new research, instead of building upon another. But yes, in the end I had no pubs, and surely having one would have boosted my application.

Finally, I can assure you that my PS and other essays were unique and never copy-pasted. I tried to use my international and unorthodox background to my experience. I love writing and hope my essays conveyed me in a compelling and interesting manner. I cannot assure, however, that I had stellar LORs, I can only hope that I do because the people I asked were amazing and were a huge part of my life.

It is just so frustrating because I have worked so hard to prepare myself for medical school, and I truly, truly want to become a physician so much for many reasons. I'll try not to give up hope yet however, I just read that USC is only done with 1/2 of interviews, so yay! Haha.

Thanks for all the replies, advice and messages of encouragement. Very confused and lost, so came here for some direction. 🙂

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

It is certainly confusing as to why you are not getting interviews. I am willing to bet that the lateness and uneven distribution of schools are the main contributors. However, I recommend you take your essay to a medical student or a young physician and have them read it without any comments from you. Ask them what they get out of the essay and what it means to them. From your posts, it may appear that you had a stellar PS but I have definitely known of an application where the applicant was stupendously stellar but in trying to sound humble on the PS, made heavy implications on how awful of a doctor he/she would be. Rare case, but again, yours is already quite confusing. Assuming your numbers, LORs and rest of the application are truly that stellar, what else is left? I would be inclined to say that even with the lateness and school choices, you'd have been offered more interviews.

 

[amakhosidlo]

No Way a late app is the only thing holding back your app. With your numbers, no way.

Willing to bet dollars to doughnuts it's your PS or a bad letter. What'd you talk about? How much effort did you put into writing your secondaries (Tailoring response to schools/questions, etc)

There's something you're not telling us.

Edit: just saw your school list. I agree, that kind of specificity in where you're applying is definitely your problem.

Everyone needs 'saftey' (No such thing, I know) schools. Everyone.
Next year add EVMS, Albany, TCMC, GW, G-town, Creighton, etc.

 

[gravitywave]

OK, now that i've read some other responses -

i'm inclined to discount the possibility of a bad letter. OP seems to know all the writers and had good relationships with them. More likely it's multifactorial (oh dear, Robbins is already starting to leach into my grammar! 😳) Lateness + poor school selection + CA residency + possibly poor positioning (essays may not have painted a consistent/effective portrait of the applicant) + just overall wretched randomness of the process = no success.

sometimes people underestimate secondaries. the essays there must be well-crafted, too. i was amazed at the end of the cycle, how the secondaries of which i had been the most proud when submitting them also were the ones that yielded the best results.

overall, this is a perplexing situation. lateness alone shouldn't be hurting someone like this, this badly. there is still time in the cycle, OP. keep sending updates. contact the schools where you have been rejected and ask for advice. don't retake the MCAT.

 

[vivalavie]

To all you responders who think lateness alone cannot have done this... I tend to disagree.

I submitted later than the poster (first took the mcat august 20), have better stats all around, I am published, top undergrad, all the right everything... very little love. I have no doubt that had I applied earlier I'd be doing much better, and if I didn't have a healthy selection of safety schools and come from the east coast I might be in the same position as the OP.

If it doesn't happen for you this year, OP, you'd better learn from both our mistakes and be the first of all the overeager, sycophantic med school hopefuls to apply for next year. That said, good luck, there are still plenty of interviews to be handed out.

 

[Wermz]

To the OP: I have similar stats to yours and also applied late (secondaries submitted late August-November), and I have just recently started to receive a lot of my interviews. I did get a couple invites awhile back from some of the schools with faster processing times, but 4 of my invites were just this past week. So hang in there...in a month I'd be a lot more worried.

 

[305602]

LizzyM

What midlevel schools do you have in mind specifically?

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

To all you responders who think lateness alone cannot have done this... I tend to disagree.

I submitted later than the poster (first took the mcat august 20), have better stats all around, I am published, top undergrad, all the right everything... very little love. I have no doubt that had I applied earlier I'd be doing much better, and if I didn't have a healthy selection of safety schools and come from the east coast I might be in the same position as the OP.

Umm, wouldn't this be the argument to make if you HAD applied EARLIER than the OP?

 

[ahmcadams]

Your stats, from Cal, are strong enough to get into the discussion at any of the best schools, but aren't so overwhelming as to make that many places on your list view you as out of their league.

I disagree that you applied late enough to shut you out of the ballgame entirely. One anecdote being as useless as the next, I submitted my primary app in late September and fared fine. Given the relationships you describe with your letter writers, it sounds unlikely that you had a rogue letter of death slip into your file.

If you're looking for red flags in your app, maybe your statement is a weak link. It may have been well-written, but perhaps the tone is off-putting or your motivations are conveyed insincerely to those who don't know you as well as your proofreaders/editors do. Your PS and secondary essays are the most likely culprits with a numbers package like the one you describe.