silly question

[sawtella]

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is it poor form on my part to ask for a half day on my 4-week derm rotation if I have a wedding to go to? I don't want to miss the ceremony but if it'll make me look like a slacker, I guess I'll just to have attend to the reception! my apologies in advance for this silly post.

 

[CTR]

If it were me, and the person getting married was someone important in my life, I would take time off to go to the wedding. You'll probably see a half-day's worth of dermatology again sometime in your career, but you won't ever have another chance to see this couple get married. (Note: I'm just a medical student, and I'm not even interested in becoming a dermatologist, so I suppose my advice may not be worth very much.)

 

[311]

Not necessarily a silly question. I missed an "optional" half day at an away rotation, and the chief basically told me that is why I got a high pass instead of honors. But I would probably take off to go to a wedding (I actually got an interview at that rotation and still matched despite that mark). Just make sure they know in advance and be excited for the whole time you are there. On my 2nd rotation, the scheduler actually asked us in advance if we needed to miss any days and then didn't schedule us with an attending that session. Rotations are definitely fun but stressful, you never know what people are actually thinking...more so than in 3rd year.

 

[vicinihil]

I think you should attend the wedding if it's a big deal to you (don't go for the food). You have to make time for important events in your life and if this ticks off your home program, you may have to consider if that's the sort of program you want to be in for 3 years.

 

[sensitive skin]

A derm away rotation is basically an extended interview. Unless you are in the wedding party, it's not advisable to skip a day of rotation.

 

[Substance]

A derm away rotation is basically an extended interview. Unless you are in the wedding party, it's not advisable to skip a day of rotation.

True. The game be petty and cruel.

Notice how the medical students that replied said "go for it", whereas the residents gave some caution. Take from that what you will.

 

[FixItUp Chappie]

True. The game be petty and cruel.

Notice how the medical students that replied said "go for it", whereas the residents gave some caution. Take from that what you will.

It is a sad state of affairs when we have changed our grading practices from a defined set of rigorous academic standards to an esoteric amalgamation of somewhat desirable qualities and somewhat undesirable circumstances.

So you can miss without penalty if you are in the wedding, but not if you are only attending? What about funerals - do you have to be a pallbearer? What about emergency surgery/hospitalizations - only 48 hours for appy? What about single day interviews at other programs? What about "optional" days as stated in the above post?

I personally think it is an absolute disgrace that antics better suited for a middle school gossip clique go on in some programs.

Things would be much better if we could just cut all of the crap and get back to the truly important question of "how does this resident improve patient care; and as a result, our program?".

 

[dermathalon]

True. The game be petty and cruel.

Notice how the medical students that replied said "go for it", whereas the residents gave some caution. Take from that what you will.

Well, here's a resident that says that it depends. If the wedding really is an important one for you, then any reasonable program will likely let you go...I know that ours would for sure with NO issues as long as we know about it ahead of time and can schedule for it. You don't have to be in the wedding party. Sometimes there are things in life that are very important and I think a lot of programs get that.

...just saw FixItUp Chappie's response and couldn't agree any more with it...unfortunately there are petty people out there too so that's why I say it depends. To the OP, send me a PM and I'll let you know if I have any inclination of the general attitude if you let me know where you are going to rotate. No need to have that part filleted over this forum.

By the way, if you get high pass instead of honors for missing a half day of clinic on derm for a very reasonable issue, that is a totally SAD state of affairs unless you dropped the request last minute on them.

 

[Substance]

Well, here's a resident that says that it depends. If the wedding really is an important one for you, then any reasonable program will likely let you go...I know that ours would for sure with NO issues as long as we know about it ahead of time and can schedule for it. You don't have to be in the wedding party. Sometimes there are things in life that are very important and I think a lot of programs get that.

...just saw FixItUp Chappie's response and couldn't agree any more with it...unfortunately there are petty people out there too so that's why I say it depends. To the OP, send me a PM and I'll let you know if I have any inclination of the general attitude if you let me know where you are going to rotate. No need to have that part filleted over this forum.

By the way, if you get high pass instead of honors for missing a half day of clinic on derm for a very reasonable issue, that is a totally SAD state of affairs unless you dropped the request last minute on them.

I've always wondered why this kind of petty crap flies pretty far in medicine. You make sense. Your post is reasonable. Medicine - not so. I'd go as far to say that if the OP was neck-and-neck with a competitor come match time, they'd use this "last minute wedding attendance" as a way to knock the OP down a few pegs to justify taking the other guy. This kind of stuff is real.

Not to mention the type A sociopaths you will be up against will use every type of fuel they can to burn you, this included.

Real ballers can rock this shiz without worry. But what real ballers all have in common is a very sturdy golden parachute.

Medicine is wonderful. The bureaucracy and personalities are hell.

We need more completely objective assessments.

 

[werd]

i say go to the wedding. as long as you give notice, and esp. since it's just a half day it should be fine. if you were at my program i'd say get out of here 🙂.

at my program there's a coordinator that makes and manages the med student schedules... on any given day the residents and attendings don't necessarily know which student is supposed to be in their clinic. (so the people grading your rotation may not even know you're missing a day).

 

[N-Surge]

Have the wedding rescheduled for the weekend. 🙂

Ok, so not so easy to do. But worth a shot. Wedding on a weekday? Really?

 

[DadMD]

Well, here's a resident that says that it depends. If the wedding really is an important one for you, then any reasonable program will likely let you go...I know that ours would for sure with NO issues as long as we know about it ahead of time and can schedule for it. You don't have to be in the wedding party. Sometimes there are things in life that are very important and I think a lot of programs get that.

...just saw FixItUp Chappie's response and couldn't agree any more with it...unfortunately there are petty people out there too so that's why I say it depends. To the OP, send me a PM and I'll let you know if I have any inclination of the general attitude if you let me know where you are going to rotate. No need to have that part filleted over this forum.

By the way, if you get high pass instead of honors for missing a half day of clinic on derm for a very reasonable issue, that is a totally SAD state of affairs unless you dropped the request last minute on them.

👍 Like

Also, I think people here are overreacting. Attendings at academic institutions don't sit around gossiping about how random rotator X missed a half day of clinic.... "OMG, Tommy from U of Random missed my clinic today! I soo don't like him anymore... by the way, I'll trade you my fruitcup for your pudding!... lets go play pogs"

It's easy to lose scope when going through the application process, but just try to relax, enjoy your time, and learn as much as possible.

 

[SierraPoppa]

👍 Like

Also, I think people here are overreacting. Attendings at academic institutions don't sit around gossiping about how random rotator X missed a half day of clinic.... "OMG, Tommy from U of Random missed my clinic today! I soo don't like him anymore... by the way, I'll trade you my fruitcup for your pudding!... lets go play pogs"

It's easy to lose scope when going through the application process, but just try to relax, enjoy your time, and learn as much as possible.

Eh... my home program certainly isn't like that, but the one where I did an away was. A bunch of bitchy, gossipy little girls. I didn't match at either.

FWIW, which isn't much on an anonymous board, I would go to an important wedding, even knowing it may be important to a program. I'm not the kind of person who puts my life on hold for other people's stupid whims.

I won't give you a "that isn't the program you want to be at" line. Most of us remember that we would have wanted to be in a program in Alaska if that's all we got.

 

[dermathalon]

Eh... my home program certainly isn't like that, but the one where I did an away was. A bunch of bitchy, gossipy little girls. I didn't match at either.

FWIW, which isn't much on an anonymous board, I would go to an important wedding, even knowing it may be important to a program. I'm not the kind of person who puts my life on hold for other people's stupid whims.

I won't give you a "that isn't the program you want to be at" line. Most of us remember that we would have wanted to be in a program in Alaska if that's all we got.

Sierra's right in that some programs are gossipy and I think that was Substance's point too. The X factor is that if you get the program to like you they will give you more leeway...you have to show hard work, publish, and get in good graces of one of the faculty on the committee to really like you and fire back at the gossiper that might not like the fact (in the chance that the program actually cares) that you went to a wedding when it comes down to the ranking meeting. Nothing is medicine is purely objective and to hope that we will be totally objective is a pipe dream...it doesn't even make sense since we are so laden in ego in medicine.

I probably would have gone to Timbuktoo for derm (well actually I wouldn't have since I would have never applied there anyway) and put up with the Timbuktoo crap (if I'm assuming Timbuktoo is a gossipy place like what Sierra describes)...but you better believe it would have gone way down on the rank list if they don't get the importance of life over petty gossip.

It's all in the "how you do it" and not the "what you do" anyway.

 

[FixItUp Chappie]

I am always amazed at how quickly residents forget what it was like to be a medical student. I even see this activity amongst friends of mine who always said things like "Oh, I'll never be like that @**#% resident".

In addition, I find it blackly humorous when certain residents are hypercritical in their evaluation of medical students, while they themselves are often unprepared, unprofessional and unwilling to carry their share of the burden.

Although these behaviors happen in virtually every field, I am pretty sure that it happens more commonly than average in Dermatology due to:
1. The ridiculous difficulty of matching into the specialty
2. The presence of quite a few "show horses" and not enough "work horses"
3. The lack of external motivators (sans the rare inservice/board exam)

One of the reasons why I ranked my program so highly was because I did not encounter these behaviors/issues during any of my experiences with them. It is my utmost hope that my class will be able to continue that tradition, and make the program a positive place for both patient care and resident/medical student education.

 

[Jeroboam]

About to begin PGY-2 in derm. Advice: you don't wanna end up at a program that would give a **** if you took HALF A DAY for a wedding as a MEDICAL STUDENT (where your presence means nothing with regard to distribution of workload).

'Nuff said. Really.

 

[smiley737]

(where your presence means nothing with regard to distribution of workload).

Seriously. Can't stand residents/faculty w/a stick up their @ss who don't give med students a break

 

[SierraPoppa]

It's all in the "how you do it" and not the "what you do" anyway.

+1 internets to dermathalon.

Funny story to illustrate this point: While on one of my interviews a resident was giving us a tour of the facility. She paused in front of an office and said, "Oh, and this is Dr. X's office," Dr X being the author of a derm book I owned and had enjoyed. We shook hands with Dr. X, and I mentioned that said book had been really helpful and I appreciated it (as the group was leaving... only one other interviewee heard me). The one other student who had heard me literally pushed me out of the way, got in Dr. X's face, and loudly proclaimed "I READ YOUR BOOK TOO!" All the other students heard this, made disgusted faces, and kept walking.

Residents were heard commenting later that student #2 was dead in the water for being "crazy". I got a followup call to gauge my interest in the program. Moral of the story... it's not what you do, but how you do it. Also, don't be a crazy psycho.

 

[dermathalon]

Also, don't be a crazy psycho.

The true moral to the story...haha