Avanafil

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Alright guys, I'll just say the elephant in the room here. If medicine payed $50k, no one would be doing it.
All of us is, to some extent, motivating by the promise of a six figure salary and social prestige , assuming you can get a 3.7+gpa and 30+mcat to get accepted to med school.

My question - what other careers are out there that are similar? If my goal is just to become as rich as possible, with hard work and a strong academic background, what could I pursue?
 

The_Bird

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Idk man. This has been discussed to death. Stop being....whatever it is you are.
 

Mad Jack

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Alright guys, I'll just say the elephant in the room here. If medicine payed $50k, no one would be doing it.
All of us is, to some extent, motivating by the promise of a six figure salary and social prestige , assuming you can get a 3.7+gpa and 30+mcat to get accepted to med school.

My question - what other careers are out there that are similar? If my goal is just to become as rich as possible, with hard work and a strong academic background, what could I pursue?
If you gave me zero student loan debt, zero malpractice costs, and a 40 hour work week, I'd still do it for just under six figures.
 

gublagu3

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On a serious note, you can looking into nursing. They get paid a decent salary, especially with all the overtime work they do. But, be prepared to work hard!
 

Mad Jack

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And the only way to get the big bucks is to run your own business, for the record, in medicine or from without. Medicine can get you the capital you need to start building a decent real estate portfolio or practice base from which you employ others, but it's just one method to go about making the money you need to build a good income stream, but really anything can get you there if you've got the business savvy.
 
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Alright guys, I'll just say the elephant in the room here. If medicine payed $50k, no one would be doing it.
All of us is, to some extent, motivating by the promise of a six figure salary and social prestige , assuming you can get a 3.7+gpa and 30+mcat to get accepted to med school.

My question - what other careers are out there that are similar? If my goal is just to become as rich as possible, with hard work and a strong academic background, what could I pursue?
Get good grades and become a finance guy. Same amount of work as medicine, and even more money. Plus, none of the ethical baggage that comes with being a doctor. Sounds perfect!
 
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StudyLater

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Alright guys, I'll just say the elephant in the room here. If medicine payed $50k, no one would be doing it.
All of us is, to some extent, motivating by the promise of a six figure salary and social prestige , assuming you can get a 3.7+gpa and 30+mcat to get accepted to med school.

My question - what other careers are out there that are similar? If my goal is just to become as rich as possible, with hard work and a strong academic background, what could I pursue?
Ty for being the very first person to ever say this. We really need to hear it, as it's not said multiple times daily on this forum.

Dude, plenty of other careers in medicine (that take way less schooling) offer six figs, but no one will make the kind of wage a doctor does. Period.

Law school (only 2 yrs) + startup funds + great business sense could land you a similar salary faster.

Maybe Wall Street/Comp Sci if you're a special duckling and can come up with some brand new idea (maybe? but probably not).

I don't know exactly what you're after. If you want big money fast, you'd have to forge your own path (and you'd need startup funds - you're rich, so maybe you have access to those within the family). I agree with you that, if wealth is the sole goal, and given the amount of wealth you may already have access to, doing this whole deal would be a waste of time for you. But you need to be creative if you intend to make more than everyone else for about the same or less work. If anyone could hand you something like this on a silver platter, it'd probably be a saturated labor market, and your worth in that market would already be depleted far below that of a physician.

If you're going to be greedy, don't also remain lazy/stupid, because as a result it will be impossible to realize your dreams.
 
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Avanafil

Avanafil

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And the only way to get the big bucks is to run your own business, for the record, in medicine or from without. Medicine can get you the capital you need to start building a decent real estate portfolio or practice base from which you employ others, but it's just one method to go about making the money you need to build a good income stream, but really anything can get you there if you've got the business savvy.
Very useful post, thank you. Have you ever tried building a real estate portfolio?
 

GiveMeThatMD

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Medically related? Well, prostitution is kinda like anatomy... there's basically a single universal diagnosis. Easy treatment, too!
 
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Mad Jack

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Very useful post, thank you. Have you ever tried building a real estate portfolio?
I was actually much more heavily invested in the stock market, as it's a far more liquid asset than real estate, and I knew I'd need large lump sums of money to be accessible once I entered medical school. I know personally several very savvy real estate investors, it's a fairly simple thing to get into if you know what you're doing and have the startup capital. If I were a doctor right now, omfg, the investments I'd be making...

It's always been strange to me how people think obtaining wealth is difficult- it's actually quite easy. But, as with many other things in life, everyone always wants the results but doesn't want to put in the time and sacrifice. Spend some time on Investopedia if you want to get started in the basics, and frequent the better personal finance forums on the web to get an idea of how other people have done things in the past.
 
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Mad Jack

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do elaborate
I'd have to write a book to do that. Take a look at some finance communities on the web, like I said. Building wealth is simple, but most people aren't disciplined enough to do it. Bogleheads, Getrichslowly, MMM, Investopedia, and more can help you greatly on the right path.

The simple formula is:
Set a goal (most people suck at this step).
Get the skills you need to make as much as you can as early as you can (too many people are far too lazy for this step).
Spend as little as possible (too many people are far too undisciplined for this step).
Use the net difference to invest in property or the market (most people don't do enough research to understand this step).
Repeat until goal is reached (all of your flaws in the above four steps will be compounded over time).

The end. It isn't magic. Set a goal. Work hard. Save hard. Invest hard. Repeat. The more you make, the more you can invest, but you can easily retire in short order off of a low 6 figure salary, or continue working to build even more wealth if that is your objective.
 
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Avanafil

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I have made several thousand dollars doing odd job programming for random people online...should I go back to that, then buy a house, rent it out, etc.?
 

Mad Jack

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I have made several thousand dollars doing odd job programming for random people online...should I go back to that, then buy a house, rent it out, etc.?
Get into something that can get you in the low six figures at least first- engineering, PA, APRN, whatever. The lead-time on being a physician is up to 9 years post-college. You could already have a decent portfolio by then if you're working a lot of OT and living frugally as a PA. I did the math before starting med school, and, if I'd gone the PA route, I could have property generating the difference between my PA salary and my physician salary before I'd finished residency as a physician, along with a far higher net wealth. Financially, being a physician is, in every way, a mistake for me, but I'm not in it for the money.
 
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Avanafil

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Get into something that can get you in the low six figures at least first- engineering, PA, APRN, whatever. The lead-time on being a physician is up to 9 years post-college. You could already have a decent portfolio by then if you're working a lot of OT and living frugally as a PA. I did the math before starting med school, and, if I'd gone the PA route, I could have property generating the difference between my PA salary and my physician salary before I'd finished residency as a physician, along with a far higher net wealth. Financially, being a physician is, in every way, a mistake for me, but I'm not in it for the money.
Is there a demand for PAs? Like...if I got the degree, would I have difficulty finding a job?
 

Mad Jack

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Is there a demand for PAs? Like...if I got the degree, would I have difficulty finding a job?
Zero difficulty.

http://www.gapmedics.com/blog/2014/06/20/highest-paid-specialties-for-physician-assistants/

Some can make substantially more, such as this listing for pain, which is pulling $150/hr, which is double what many PCPs make on an hourly basis:
http://www.indeed.com/viewjob?cmp=Biltmore-Medical&t=Physician+Assistant+or+Physiciansassistant+Nurse+Practitioner+Hour&jk=1d0c8c86c8c8be58&q=physician+assistant+$100,000

Here's hundreds of PA jobs that pay a minimum of 120k/yr:
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=physician+assistant+$120,000&l=
 
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Avanafil

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Zero difficulty.

http://www.gapmedics.com/blog/2014/06/20/highest-paid-specialties-for-physician-assistants/

Some can make substantially more, such as this listing for pain, which is pulling $150/hr, which is double what many PCPs make on an hourly basis:
http://www.indeed.com/viewjob?cmp=Biltmore-Medical&t=Physician+Assistant+or+Physiciansassistant+Nurse+Practitioner+Hour&jk=1d0c8c86c8c8be58&q=physician+assistant+$100,000

Here's hundreds of PA jobs that pay a minimum of 120k/yr:
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=physician+assistant+$120,000&l=
Whoaaaaa thats crazy!

So you are basically suggesting that I spend two years of PA school, then work for mayb 3 years to save up and pay off debts, then invest that in real estate?
 
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Mad Jack

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Whoaaaaa thats crazy!

So you are basically suggesting that I spend two years of PA school, then work for mayb 3 years to save up and pay off debts, then invest that in real estate?
Don't bother paying off your debt. Pay the minimum on your debt while investing in real estate. Your real estate will generate greater returns than the interest rate your debt costs you if you are investing in rental properties. If you plan to invest in the stock market though, generally paying off your debt versus investing is a break even proposition, but paying off your debt is lower risk, so I'd say do that first.
 
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Avanafil

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Don't bother paying off your debt. Pay the minimum on your debt while investing in real estate. Your real estate will generate greater returns than the interest rate your debt costs you if you are investing in rental properties. If you plan to invest in the stock market though, generally paying off your debt versus investing is a break even proposition, but paying off your debt is lower risk, so I'd say do that first.
Do you have any rental properties at the moment?
 

Mad Jack

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Do you have any rental properties at the moment?
No, all of my assets were placed into ETFs, mutual funds, and REITs prior to starting medical school. You really shouldn't own rental property while not taking in an income in a situation like med school, as there could be unexpected expenses (say, a boiler going out) that you just won't be able to cover easily or comfortably both financially and at a substantial distance from your property.
 
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Avanafil

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No, all of my assets were placed into ETFs, mutual funds, and REITs prior to starting medical school. You really shouldn't own rental property while not taking in an income in a situation like med school, as there could be unexpected expenses (say, a boiler going out) that you just won't be able to cover easily or comfortably both financially and at a substantial distance from your property.
How did you get those assets before med school? inhereted? earned somehow?
 

StudyLater

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So I'm assuming medicine is not the right way then....
You could have gotten that easily from reading the many (MANY) threads that are exact duplicates of this one -- the "how can I haz $$$ quik plz???" threads are quite typical here.

Get into something that can get you in the low six figures at least first- engineering, PA, APRN, whatever. The lead-time on being a physician is up to 9 years post-college. You could already have a decent portfolio by then if you're working a lot of OT and living frugally as a PA. I did the math before starting med school, and, if I'd gone the PA route, I could have property generating the difference between my PA salary and my physician salary before I'd finished residency as a physician, along with a far higher net wealth. Financially, being a physician is, in every way, a mistake for me, but I'm not in it for the money.
Being a PA would probably be pretty fun if you don't care about not having complete autonomous control over patient care and are just in it for the clinical/procedural involvement. But you'll need to have the requisite clinical hours. I think it's like 1-2k minimum now? But there may well be schools accepting less. This isn't my forte. Personally I'd sooner do retail pharm than be a PA (only considering salary) because, despite my enjoyment of difficult critical thinking, I also do enjoy doing plentiful menial tasks with minimal intellectual investment.

AA/CRNA is best, though, purely from a wage perspective. I couldn't say I could do either of these yet as I'm not sure if I bombed my MCAT. Though GRE is an option as well.

Is there a demand for PAs? Like...if I got the degree, would I have difficulty finding a job?
Hell no. They'd need you badly all over. Pick a state, any state.

Don't bother paying off your debt. Pay the minimum on your debt while investing in real estate. Your real estate will generate greater returns than the interest rate your debt costs you if you are investing in rental properties. If you plan to invest in the stock market though, generally paying off your debt versus investing is a break even proposition, but paying off your debt is lower risk, so I'd say do that first.
Or start a commodity/service business that generates >>> returns than real estate ever would. Proceed to profit.
 

StudyLater

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ELABORATE!!!! I NEED KNOW HOW DO IT
Pick a commodity or service. Literally anything. Study the market. Find a supplier/serviceperson that sells commodities/services cheaper than market price. Pay them for their goods/services and resell goods/services at a higher price on the open market to consumers. Buy low, sell high. Should be obvious enough, no?

I really wish the world could handhold you to multi-million dollar profits. But it just doesn't work that way, sweetie.
 

Mad Jack

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You could have gotten that easily from reading the many (MANY) threads that are exact duplicates of this one -- the "how can I haz $$$ quik plz???" threads are quite typical here.



Being a PA would probably be pretty fun if you don't care about not having complete autonomous control over patient care and are just in it for the clinical/procedural involvement. But you'll need to have the requisite clinical hours. I think it's like 1-2k minimum now? But there may well be schools accepting less. This isn't my forte. Personally I'd sooner do retail pharm than be a PA (only considering salary) because, despite my enjoyment of difficult critical thinking, I also do enjoy doing plentiful menial tasks with minimal intellectual investment.

AA/CRNA is best, though, purely from a wage perspective. I couldn't say I could do either of these yet as I'm not sure if I bombed my MCAT. Though GRE is an option as well.



Hell no. They'd need you badly all over. Pick a state, any state.



Or start a commodity/service business that generates >>> returns than real estate ever would. Proceed to profit.
Starting your own business is by far the best thing that one could do, but the trouble is, most businesses fail. I'm too old to worry about failing in my life.

I was a total shoe-in for PA school. 10k hours of clinical experience. Nice thing about being a PA is that you can actually outearn many CRNAs and AAs in the right environment, such as the posting above for a pain PA at $150/hr (that translates to 300k a year at 40 hours a week), and you've got a lot of flexibility since you don't need to retrain to switch fields. Downside is the lack of autonomy.
 

StudyLater

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Starting your own business is by far the best thing that one could do, but the trouble is, most businesses fail. I'm too old to worry about failing in my life.

I was a total shoe-in for PA school. 10k hours of clinical experience. Nice thing about being a PA is that you can actually outearn many CRNAs and AAs in the right environment, such as the posting above for a pain PA at $150/hr (that translates to 300k a year at 40 hours a week), and you've got a lot of flexibility since you don't need to retrain to switch fields. Downside is the lack of autonomy.
Fair enough. But that's why I'm saying study the market. I don't just mean do a few google searches. I mean you should have a serious understanding of the level of demand you're looking at and a thorough plan to effectively redirect that demand to your business. You should know before even spending a dime whether it's something even worth pursuing with your current assets (i.e. do you have the kind of wealth to leverage the kind of deals that would make you competitive in the market?).

As far as the pain thing, idk. The corresponding job on the other side could be an independent CRNA pp owner in a practice rights state making 4-500k+.

@Mad Jack do you know if the mal concerns are as serious for PAs? Or does the attending usually act as the liability sponge?
 

Mad Jack

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You're only 30...right? ...?
Yeah, but that's old enough that I'm concerned about settling down. It's easy to recover from a mistake in your late teens and early 20s, but being buried in debt with no job after a failed business in your early-to-mid 30s can tank the trajectory of the remainder of your life, particularly if you want to get married and such.
 

Mad Jack

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Fair enough. But that's why I'm saying study the market. I don't just mean do a few google searches. I mean you should have a serious understanding of the level of demand you're looking at and a thorough plan to effectively redirect that demand to your business. You should know before even spending a dime whether it's something even worth pursuing with your current assets (i.e. do you have the kind of wealth to leverage the kind of deals that would make you competitive in the market?).

As far as the pain thing, idk. The corresponding job on the other side could be an independent CRNA pp owner in a practice rights state making 4-500k+.

@Mad Jack do you know if the mal concerns are as serious for PAs? Or does the attending usually act as the liability sponge?
In the vast, vast majority of states, CRNAs are not legally permitted to perform pain management services at this time.

Medmal for PAs is extremely low. Generally they'll go after your supervising physician, not you, because they've got the deeper pockets. Hence why PA malpractice insurance is extremely cheap and often provided for free by employers.
 

StudyLater

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In the vast, vast majority of states, CRNAs are not legally permitted to perform pain management services at this time.
Well sure. So you just go to where they can practice.

Medmal for PAs is extremely low. Generally they'll go after your supervising physician, not you, because they've got the deeper pockets. Hence why PA malpractice insurance is extremely cheap and often provided for free by employers.
Makes sense. Seems like midlevels have a pretty good deal on this front. I'm not going to enjoy my first mal suit, except when I hear the prosecutor's opening statement, which will ironically describe me as a heartless, negligent killer profiting off of the misery of my weak and dying patients. I assume the rest of it will just be talking about my salary and possessions placed in close juxtaposition with the patient's terrible circumstances in order to incite an emotional response from the jury. This is why I must live in a red state.