singing devil, junebug, philantropist, etc....need help!!

[lotus228]

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hi guys,

i need some advice about doing a post-bac. my gpa is a 2.9, sci gpa 2.7. graduated with bio degree. in all prereqs i got c's, but did well in upper level science classes. my question is, should i go into a SMP or a post-bac of upper-level classes? i've been hearing that i should take upper level classes to boost gpa....i calculated i need 30hrs of A's to get a 3.0 in sci. what should i do? anyone, please.....any advice? 🙁

 

[Singing Devil]

hi guys,

i need some advice about doing a post-bac. my gpa is a 2.9, sci gpa 2.7. graduated with bio degree. in all prereqs i got c's, but did well in upper level science classes. my question is, should i go into a SMP or a post-bac of upper-level classes? i've been hearing that i should take upper level classes to boost gpa....i calculated i need 30hrs of A's to get a 3.0 in sci. what should i do? anyone, please.....any advice? 🙁

Well, I was in a similar situation, in that I had a low science GPA (2.3 I think, but it could have been lower... I had a lot of Fs and Ds). It depends on how well you know your science... do you feel you can do well in a master's program with your current level of science knowledge? If you can do well on the MCAT (really well), you'll show that you know the science, so the low prereq GPA won't be a problem. If you can get into an SMP, that should take care of the rest. As always, it won't be easy, but it can be done. I would probably take some undergrad coursework in science and get some As, then apply to an SMP. Course, that's what I did, so it's rather specific to my case, but, hey, it worked. Junebug and Phil may have other ideas.

 

[lotus228]

Well, I was in a similar situation, in that I had a low science GPA (2.3 I think, but it could have been lower... I had a lot of Fs and Ds). It depends on how well you know your science... do you feel you can do well in a master's program with your current level of science knowledge? If you can do well on the MCAT (really well), you'll show that you know the science, so the low prereq GPA won't be a problem. If you can get into an SMP, that should take care of the rest. As always, it won't be easy, but it can be done. I would probably take some undergrad coursework in science and get some As, then apply to an SMP. Course, that's what I did, so it's rather specific to my case, but, hey, it worked. Junebug and Phil may have other ideas.

ahhh....if i can get into a SMP now without taking undergrad classes, should i go ahead and do the SMP? i don't want to waste time with an upper-level post-bac if unnecessary. although the Penn program looks so damn promising....

 

[junebuguf]

Before you jump into an SMP or even a traditional MS program, ask yourself: can I handle the coursework? If you did poorly before, there must have been a reason. Figure out what the problem is first! If it can be fixed--motivation, effort, direction--its one thing, but if you busted your butt and those are the best grades you could get, you should ask yourself if you really want to subject yourself to at least a year of post-bacc undergrad or graduate work and then another two years of basic science in med school. I dont know what your circumstances are, so I cant advise you on that. Nonetheless, misgivings about your reasons notwithstanding...

About your record. Your grades are actually a lot better than mine when I started (cum gpa of 2.25, I think). But I wasnt a bio major so I didnt exhaust the pool of undergrad science courses so thats the path I chose and though its been very frustrating at times, its generally worked out for me. But if you feel comfortable with your science background, you should try to get into an SMP program, but only if your absolute goal is med school and nothing short of it. Otherwise, you may want to just get an MS in Molecular Bio which can help you in med school admissions as well as securing a job during the application year or otherwise should you opt to pursue something else. Doing well in graduate science courses would probably help relieve some concerns about your ability to handle med school courses. Also, how you perform on the MCAT will matter a lot more than for someone with good grades. Some of the other low gpa post-bacc'ers like Singing Devil and Liverotcot have astronomical MCAT scores and though you dont need a 39, but you should be aiming for at least a 34+

And remember, at this point, your margin for error is very low. You cant afford a C and really even more than one or two B's in whatever you do from here. You also need a high MCAT score. Ultimately it means that the pressure is going to be much higher for you than for others. That can be very frustrating at times. I just took the MCAT and I think I'll probable end up with a 35, which would otherwise be a great score but kind of disappointing for me since I was scoring a little higher in practice. Point being, reality gets a little skewed from here. Anyway, keep that in mind. Good luck.

 

[Phil Anthropist]

singing devil, junebug, philantropist, etc....need help!!

Well, I can't speak for the others, but my friends have been telling me for quite some time, "You need help!" So I think you're on to something! 😛

How long are you willing to do postbac coursework? If I were in your position, I would spend one year doing upper-division undergraduate coursework to raise your cumulative and bcpm GPAs past 3.0. As guidelines, some of the special masters/certificate programs are looking for certain GPA levels (e.g., 3.0 cumulative or better). So it could be useful to do a year of undergrad postbac coursework anyway.

You mentioned needing 30 more credit hours to go up from a 2.7 to a 3.0 science. Unless you have a bunch of science credits, I would be surprised if you need this many more credits to go up to a 3.0 science. I won't state my actual GPA at the moment, but my science GPA is one of the main things I'm trying to repair. If my calculations are correct, I will have improved my GPA by about 0.4 after I finish these three courses I'm currently enrolled in. That's 27 credits w/ a 0.4 jump (hopefully).

I think Singing Devil and Junebug bring up a good point: can you handle a special masters program? I intended to take this year off to regroup, but ended up taking some upper division science courses a la carte for several reasons. One of these reasons was to develop good study habits. Even if by some miracle I applied to med school and was accepted last year (I've never applied), I don't think I would have been prepared for med school. You have to ask yourself if you're ready for a special masters program. My personal opinion is that it's better to deal with the MCAT before worrying about a special masters program.

Singing Devil also mentioned doing really well on your MCAT. This is imperative. The lower your GPA is, the higher you should shoot to compensate. I would shoot for mid-30s if I were you. When I finally get around to taking the MCAT, I'm hoping to break at least mid-30s. In addition to my pretty solid postbac performance so far and a one-year graduate program (that's the plan anyway), hopefully this will draw attention away from my lackluster undergrad record (especially my freshman and sophomore years )

You mentioned U Penn's program. This is the Special Science program, right? If that's all undergraduate coursework, that's a pretty good option right now. Apparently there's some form of linkage that the program has with UMDNJ-Robert Wood Johnson, but I don't know the specifics. But I don't believe all the students in the program are offered that linkage. Also, if you're just looking to take upper-division science courses, you don't have to do so in a formal undergraduate postbac enrichment program. A formal program might make things easier, but it's not absolutely necessary.

I also agree with Junebug's comment about doing an SMP. These are essentially MS in I-Want-to-Go-to-Med-School programs. They're good at what they're meant for (i.e., preparing you for/getting you into med school) but aren't very useful degrees for the job market. As an alternative to the MS in Molecular Biology that Junebug mentioned, there are also MS in Biomedical Sciences thesis programs that are worth a look. You may have seen recent posts about the EVMS MS in Biomedical sciences program. There are actually two tracks, the research track and the medical masters track. The latter is the SMP program and requires only a library-based thesis. The former is a traditional two-year program. The two-year program includes medical courses, is much cheaper than the one-year program, and requires a laboratory thesis (if I remember correctly). The major disadvantage is that the program loses the rigorous one-year coursework aspect chararacteristic of the true SMPs. Another similar program is Creighton's MS in Biomedical Sciences. It's a two year program, you can take medical school courses, and you do a laboratory thesis. If you have extensive research experience, you can even do this program with complete tuition remission (no tuition) + stipend. Again the major disadvantage is that you don't have the rigorous one-year coursework characteristic of the SMPs. Also, Creighton's med school puts a lot of weight on the undergrad GPA, so there isn't a very strong linkage to the med school. There are also traditional masters programs at some med schools that include med school coursework. For example, UMDNJ has several of these graduate programs.

Sorry, I have the tendency to ramble. 😳 To sum things up, I think:

(1) You have to rock the MCAT (shoot for mid-30's if possible)
(2) Do one year of undergraduate postbaccalaureate coursework
(3) Do a special masters program after the one year of undergrad postbac coursework. You can apply to med school during or after the special masters program. It would be best to apply after (so you'll have a year of grades on your AMCAS/AACOMAS applications when you file them), but I realize some peeps just want to start med school ASAP...so it's really up to you.

 

[lotus228]

hi guys,

oops.....sorry to have mislead you, but i am interested in dental school. nonetheless, i think all of your suggestions are very helpful and will work for me if i placed the DAT in lieu of the MCAT.

i am assuming and hoping that i can handle a SMP on the basis that i did well in upper level sci courses the last two years as an undergrad. some of these courses had grad students in them....i don't know what this means, but i am also assuming that these classes can be considered "grad" courses. can someone tell me if my reasoning is wrong? are grad courses even harder than upper level courses? 😕

i am still debating whether or not to just do a SMP or take one year of upper level. i know everyone has been suggesting upper level. however, i don't want to wait another year. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! i have been accepted into the UMDNJ SMP and waiting on BU (my 1st choice). also, i am waiting on Penn's special science program (my other 1st choice). okay, so last question......can't i do the SMP if i already have been accepted?? or should i go to Penn? 🙁

thanks, guys!
oh yeah phil, thanks for rambling. i like rambling...

 

[mshheaddoc]

hi guys,

oops.....sorry to have mislead you, but i am interested in dental school. nonetheless, i think all of your suggestions are very helpful and will work for me if i placed the DAT in lieu of the MCAT.

i am assuming and hoping that i can handle a SMP on the basis that i did well in upper level sci courses the last two years as an undergrad. some of these courses had grad students in them....i don't know what this means, but i am also assuming that these classes can be considered "grad" courses. can someone tell me if my reasoning is wrong? are grad courses even harder than upper level courses? 😕

i am still debating whether or not to just do a SMP or take one year of upper level. i know everyone has been suggesting upper level. however, i don't want to wait another year. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! i have been accepted into the UMDNJ SMP and waiting on BU (my 1st choice). also, i am waiting on Penn's special science program (my other 1st choice). okay, so last question......can't i do the SMP if i already have been accepted?? or should i go to Penn? 🙁

thanks, guys!
oh yeah phil, thanks for rambling. i like rambling...

My two cents, if money is an issue, then just do the SMP. I am just starting the prereqs now and I plan on doing either Penn's Special Science program or an SMP. My undergrad gpa is actricious. lol.

It depends on how YOU feel you will do. The UMDNJ is a graduate level program? So will only count towards grad GPA right? What about your science GPA? I agree with phil's point that how can you take just 30 credits of classes and raise your GPA that much 😱 Do you feel ready for the rigor of academia? We can't tell you what to do you have to make that decision for yourself. But make sure you examine all the options. One more year of course vs. SMP ... which do you think you should do?

 

[lotus228]

My two cents, if money is an issue, then just do the SMP. I am just starting the prereqs now and I plan on doing either Penn's Special Science program or an SMP. My undergrad gpa is actricious. lol.

It depends on how YOU feel you will do. The UMDNJ is a graduate level program? So will only count towards grad GPA right? What about your science GPA? I agree with phil's point that how can you take just 30 credits of classes and raise your GPA that much 😱 Do you feel ready for the rigor of academia? We can't tell you what to do you have to make that decision for yourself. But make sure you examine all the options. One more year of course vs. SMP ... which do you think you should do?

hmmmmmmmmmmm........i dunno. i've been leaning towards upper level, but then i ask why not do SMP if i have the opportunity to? i do want to raise my undergrad gpa, but then i also want to show the schools i can handle rigor by doing a SMP................. 😕

thanks, mshheaddoc, for your input. 😀
oh junebug, congrats on finishing the MCAT and good luck with med school
singing devil....you are my hero!

 

[calbear15]

hmmmmmmmmmmm........i dunno. i've been leaning towards upper level, but then i ask why not do SMP if i have the opportunity to? i do want to raise my undergrad gpa, but then i also want to show the schools i can handle rigor by doing a SMP................. 😕

thanks, mshheaddoc, for your input. 😀
oh junebug, congrats on finishing the MCAT and good luck with med school
singing devil....you are my hero!

I am in kind of a same position. (except my undergrad GPA is a lot, a lot lower). I've applied to both regular post-baccs (UConn, UPenn) as well as SMP's and regular masters (Northwestern Neurobio, Tulane Cell Mol)

I recognize the need to bring up my undergrad GPA but I must admit that a post-bacc program seems so insignificant compared to an actual masters program where I'll actually get a degree out of it.

While I haven't heard from all the schools yet, I intend to call some med school admission directors in the mean time, and ask them which they prefer, me raising my undergrad science GPA or proving myself in a masters program. Perhaps you can ask your dental schools which one they'll be more impressed with.

 

[medanthgirl]

my stats are very similar to yours (3.1 cumulative, 2.7 sci, anth + chem double major), but I have a little more time to burn...i've been taking my pre-reqs over again, replacing my bad gen chem and physics grades C's and D's with A's. i'm studying for the mcat, and then plan to take biochem in the fall. then i will apply to an SMP program. i think junebug's and phil_anthropist's posts are dead on - i needed the confidence and realignment literally, of this year to get my head in a place where i could think about tackling something like an smp program. 4 hours of physics was perfect for that - it was hard, i had to study my butt off, i had the previous memories of getting a D, but then i finally saw what happened when i focused and gave it my all (and working a full time job in research). as a result, i'll feel more confident in an smp now, not as intimidated as i might have been a year ago...i.e. that feeling of oh goodness, here we go again, i hope i do okay this time.

anyways, my technique is i'm trying to 'spackle' as many areas as possible, by retaking the bad pre-reqs and then proving myself in an smp, hopefully if i get into a program in 2006. very long road, but it's one i would like to travel!

ooh, and phil_anthropist, if you're still on the thread, i have a question for you - how should one aim for a 35? i took the full-length practice MCAT this weekend offered by princeton review, and i was a bit under-whelmed, b/c during our breaks, they were talking about how their national TPR average on the real thing was a 30, and after hearing that i didn't really feel like forking over $1550 (not 1600 b/c they gave us a whopping $50 off coupon!! woohoo). i know there's a good 30+ mcat study habits thread on the mcat forum, but i was just interested/curious to see what type of plan you were doing. i know singing devil really liked the kaplan course, and he did awesome, but that sentiment doesn't seem to be echoed by very many people. ah, and singing devil, if you are on....how do you like my location....hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!! 😀

 

[RoxyKaur]

Hello everyone, i have heard that from a premed counsler that when applying to med school that they we look at your most recent gpa. like for example your SMP and traditional master programs compared to undergrad gpa.

p.s i have a quick questions?- G'Town SMP program i know they have a strict requirment for GPA and mcat but when they look at your gpa do they look at your aamc gpa or do they look at the cum. gpa? i have a horrable gpa and i will be taking the mcats in augs (pray for me). I am currently working on getting my gpa to a 3.0 and i am far from it.
Thanks 😀

 

[calbear15]

Hello everyone, i have heard that from a premed counsler that when applying to med school that they we look at your most recent gpa. like for example your SMP and traditional master programs compared to undergrad gpa.

p.s i have a quick questions?- G'Town SMP program i know they have a strict requirment for GPA and mcat but when they look at your gpa do they look at your aamc gpa or do they look at the cum. gpa? i have a horrable gpa and i will be taking the mcats in augs (pray for me). I am currently working on getting my gpa to a 3.0 and i am far from it.
Thanks 😀

They'll look at both. Visit their website, particularly the FAQ section.

http://www.georgetown.edu/departments/physiology/physios/