single mom = med school impossible?

[GreyBlueEyes]

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i do believe it is my inevitable destiny to be a single mother. right now i'm getting my BS in chemistry and have a 3.98. i still have a few semesters before i'll be done. i was planning to take the MCAT in a year. i've always done very well on standardized tests and was expecting a good score.

if i get divorced, do i have to give up on the idea of med school? my youngest is 3.5, so they'd both be in school by the time i started. and no, i wouldn't have any help from family. my parents don't live anywhere near a med school, so the closest i can get to family is still a few hours away.

i don't want to give up on med school, but i think it just might not be feasible anymore. thoughts?

 

[Lokhtar]

Try www.mommd.com. They will give you a lot of help. Don't give up on your dreams - it will be tough, but people do make it happen. You might just be more in debt than most.

 

[GreyBlueEyes]

i've registered there. it just hasn't been "approved" yet. and yeah, i'll be living on financial aid and child support, so i'll have plenty of debt. but i also plan to go where i have residency, so it won't be as bad as it could be. i don't care about the debt. i live simply and don't mind continuing to do so until the debt is paid off. and my only debt is school debt.

i just need to know it can be done. i feel like i could contribute more to the world as a doctor than with anything else and don't want to give that up 🙁

 

[Lokhtar]

Also, with your GPA and a good MCAT, you can go to a top school, which give great financial aid packages. It won't be easy, but you know that. I hate to see someone give up on a future. As a doctor, you'll be able to provide for your kids much better than without, plus you'll be doing something you love. It won't be easy in the beginning, but ask around on mommd for help and advice.

 

[GreyBlueEyes]

heh, i hadn't even thought about applying to top schools, just sticking with state schools for the in-state tuition 😉 my extra-curriculars aren't that impressive, just some volunteering. although getting divorced would mean i could apply to many schools and see what happens, rather than just applying to the one school where my husband is stationed.

thanks for the words of encouragement 🙂 i've been searching posts on SDN and finding out that there are other single moms who did this. it's also possible that my mom would be willing to come live with me during years 3 and 4. by the time residency happens, my kids will be old enough to be home alone...and there's no telling who i'd have met by then who might want to exchange help.

giving up my education altogether was never an option. i can't do that. i just wondered if i should pursue something less rigorous than med school...albeit less satisfying 🙁

i plan to do lots of reading on mommd once i have access to the forums.

 

[pseudoknot]

I would think you should be able to do this if you really want to, although at times it may not be easy. I'm pretty sure there is at least one single mom in my class but I don't really know her situation. The only issue I can see, besides living on the somewhat small amount of money they let you borrow, is the clinical years, but it sounds like you've thought about that. Anyway, if it's your dream, go for it and good luck!

 

[Doctor Bagel]

I know of at least one single mom in my class, so it is doable, especially if your kids are school-aged. I would try to find a school that doesn't have a lot of required class time during 1st and 2nd year, so you can study while your kids are at school. Also, if you need to use daycare for anything, your school will budget you extra money for that.

 

[notdeadyet]

Single mom's do it, though it has to be rough. When your child is sick before the night of a test, you can't just shut the door and shut her out. When choosing schools, I'd try to get a feel for how accommodating they will be for a single parent raising a child. I'd also use the availability of day care in the area as a selection factor.

Best of luck to you...

 

[Flopotomist]

There are two questions here.

1. CAN it be done? Yes - people have done this in the past. It is extremely hard, but it can be done.

2. SHOULD it be done? This is a harder question. Yeah, it might sound sexist, old-fashioned, cruel, or whatever, but the reality is you will be depriving your kids of a mother for at least the next 8 years while you are in school and residency. You will have to be studying all the time, in the wards all the time etc.

Interestingly, on SDN people will nearly unanimously say not to get a dog because they are too much work, and you won't have time to be a responsible pet owner, but people will inevitably jump on here to tell you what a great idea it is to be a single mother in medical school. Weird.

 

[GreyBlueEyes]

i already have some experience with going to school as a single mom 🙂 my husband is active duty navy and often at sea. i have finals this week and he's gone. he was gone when i had finals during spring semester, too. i'm very familiar with jugging their needs with my need to study, etc. i'm a very, VERY determined and focused person, which helps.

the school i want to go to has a reputation for being family-friendly and has an excellent k-12 school on campus. i'm not sure how to find out how much in-class time is required for the first two years, though. pointers?

as far as "depriving them of a mother"....whether or not it's true, it'd be the same whether i was married or not. every mother has to weigh the pros and cons of every decision regarding her children. wouldn't i also be depriving them of a mother if i had to work two minimum-wage jobs to keep bills paid because i gave up on my education to take care of them? i'm depriving them right now, aren't i, going to school full time and having to spend time studying instead of playing with them? what's worse, depriving them of every possible moment with their mother, or sentencing them to the future most children of single mothers have to face?

i gave up school to stay home with them when they were babies. now they're not babies anymore and, in my opinion, they don't need me *as much*. that trend continues as they get older. they'll still need me, but not as much.

if what you're saying is true, Flopotomist, no one - male or female - should become a doctor and have children. you're entitled to your opinion, but i don't think many people would agree with that.

and having a dog is worse. it's a lot easier to find people to babysit than to dogsit. a dog belonging to a med student/resident will spend a lot of time alone. a child belonging to a med student/resident will spend a lot of time with different caregivers, including his/her parent(s).

on the whole, you guys have given me a lot of hope 🙂 thanks.

 

[unsung]

There are two questions here.

1. CAN it be done? Yes - people have done this in the past. It is extremely hard, but it can be done.

2. SHOULD it be done? This is a harder question. Yeah, it might sound sexist, old-fashioned, cruel, or whatever, but the reality is you will be depriving your kids of a mother for at least the next 8 years while you are in school and residency. You will have to be studying all the time, in the wards all the time etc.

Interestingly, on SDN people will nearly unanimously say not to get a dog because they are too much work, and you won't have time to be a responsible pet owner, but people will inevitably jump on here to tell you what a great idea it is to be a single mother in medical school. Weird.

My mother pursued this route as well- she wasn't able to get an education in her native country, so when she came to the states with me (I was very young), she studied English, and eventually was admitted to an university. It's pretty impressive considering she didn't even finish HIGH SCHOOL in her home country, and didn't really speak English when we came over.

Anyway, working full-time and studying at university pretty much ensured that her days and nights were pretty busy... so sure, I had less time with her. But do I regret how she spent her time? On the contrary, I admire her decision very much. And if she hadn't tried so hard to better herself and pursue a career, I can't imagine what she'd be doing now... instead of working as a software engineer, would she just be staying home and baking cookies? I can't imagine she'd be satisfied doing that... or satisfied with the knowledge that she never completed her education.


So to the OP- I commend you for not giving up on your education or yourself... it might be hard, but I think you're setting a great example for your children (esp your daughter if you have a daughter). Anyway, if your mom would be able to come and help care for the kids, I imagine that would be ideal. In my mom's native country, this is done all the time, as few ppl have the luxury of being able to stay at home instead of working. So the grandparents will typically step in and lend a hand with child care. I think it's great. Good luck to you!

 

[GreyBlueEyes]

bless you, unsung.

if my mom can help, she will. she absolutely adores being a grandmother and nothing would make her happier than taking care of my kids 🙂 the only hurdle is the location thing. but still, it's possible, especially if my dad could find a job in the area where my school is.

oh, and i have all boys 🙂 i like to think they'd be proud of me.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

For the class time during 1st and 2nd year, the things to look out for are required attendance. It doesn't seem to be the norm at allopathic schools, but there are quite a few osteopathic schools that require it. All schools are going to have something that requires you to be there a few days a week, so you can't avoid that. 🙁 To get the real scoop, ask around at your interview day and see what the students tell you. My school has a strong tradition of homeschooling, so students were willing to share with me that they never went to class.

As for depriving your kids of your time, it sounds like you'd be away from them a lot regardless of what you did. If you're not going to medical school, you'd have to work and probably a lot to make ends meet.

 

[notdeadyet]

the school i want to go to has a reputation for being family-friendly and has an excellent k-12 school on campus. i'm not sure how to find out how much in-class time is required for the first two years, though. pointers?

Dr. Bagel has good advice about avoiding schools with mandatory attendance. That's actually good advice for anyone. Who wants to go to a medical school that treats you like a child?

But more relevantly, I'd look at what kind of support there is for self-study. Less class time does not equal less study time. Every medical student has to master the same amount of material in the end. But you want to find a place that facilitates your studying when your child doesn't need you.

Check to see if the school posts powerpoint slides of lectures. Ask if they have mp3's available for every lecture. See if they have downloadable video (this one isn't necessary, but is a nice to have). See if there's a scribe service, official or otherwise.

I'm not sure where you're going to find an excellent K-12 school on campus. To be honest, you may have to shoot for okay K-12 school within a short drive. You may find yourself having to live a commute away from the medical school in order to be in a halfway decent school district.

 

[GreyBlueEyes]

I'm not sure where you're going to find an excellent K-12 school on campus. To be honest, you may have to shoot for okay K-12 school within a short drive. You may find yourself having to live a commute away from the medical school in order to be in a halfway decent school district.

already found it 🙂

http://www.greatschools.net/modperl/browse_school/tn/1516

right on the ETSU campus.

i'll look into that other stuff, thanks 🙂 it really would be nice to have those kinds of benefits, since i've always been better at teaching myself anyway.

 

[notdeadyet]

2. SHOULD it be done? This is a harder question. Yeah, it might sound sexist, old-fashioned, cruel, or whatever, but the reality is you will be depriving your kids of a mother for at least the next 8 years while you are in school and residency. You will have to be studying all the time, in the wards all the time etc.

I always hear a lot of folks chime in about whether or not women with kids should go to medical school. Even if they're married, a lot of folks are "concerned" for the kids, since mom won't be arround for giving them enough love, attention, etc.

What's telling is that I've never heard anyone try to talk a Dad out of going to medical school for the same reasons. Huh.

As for not being around, lots of folks grew up in nice upper middle class nuclear families where mom was at home all day and dad went to the office. But for a lot of us, Mom had to really punch the clock to kick in on rent. We can't all be the Cleavers. And most of us turned out okay.

 

[UnderdogMD]

if what you're saying is true, Flopotomist, no one - male or female - should become a doctor and have children. you're entitled to your opinion, but i don't think many people would agree with that.

Not what Flopotomist was saying.

In any case you come off as an intelligent individual who doesn't take this decision lightly. What worries me more than your single mother status is your lack of help/family support. I know a single mother in med school but she lives with her kid at her parents home. The grandparents are always there at meal times, taking the kid to school, and for any other caregiving. I presume this makes all the difference to this single mother in med school when she has exams, has to stay late, and other burdens of med school (Have you thought about residency?)

The way I see it you have to ask yourself two questions. Could you? and Should you? While asking yourself these questions not only do you have to consider yourself but your children as well. People can give answers and advice about the "could you" question but nobody can help you with the "Should you." In the end only you know your specific situation and what's right for you so take any advice, mine included, here and on momMD with a grain of salt.

 

[Law2Doc]

i do believe it is my inevitable destiny to be a single mother. right now i'm getting my BS in chemistry and have a 3.98. i still have a few semesters before i'll be done. i was planning to take the MCAT in a year. i've always done very well on standardized tests and was expecting a good score.

if i get divorced, do i have to give up on the idea of med school? my youngest is 3.5, so they'd both be in school by the time i started. and no, i wouldn't have any help from family. my parents don't live anywhere near a med school, so the closest i can get to family is still a few hours away.

i don't want to give up on med school, but i think it just might not be feasible anymore. thoughts?

Tuition is probably the least of the problems. Whether it's feasible depends totally on how much family and friend help (in terms of babysitting) you can get. Without pretty significant help, the endeavor may be impossible. You will have a ton of studying to do, won't have a ton of free time, and the later years of med school and residency are going to require you to be at the hospital with a fairly inflexible schedule. So if you have someone who can basically be with the kids for the 60-70 hours a week (rough estimate for parts of 3d year or residency) that you can't be, then you can do it. It won't be easy. It takes a village.

 

[Valvool]

I have several young children, all under the age of eight. My youngest will be three when I matriculate, if I am successful in securing a place in medical school this fall. I have a very supportive husband, and we have talked a lot about how we are going to get through this as parents of young children. We may take out enough loan money so that he will be home most of the time. No matter what we decide to do, we know the next seven years will be tough.
If I was a single mother, I don't know that I would choose to go this route. Yes, it can be done, but the truth is, when it comes to medical school, I am doing this more for me than for them--if it was just about them I could go to nursing school or PA school and be done more quickly and still have the lifestyle I want for us. Medical school is my dream, however. I feel like I have the luxury to pursue this dream b/c of my supportive spouse and family. Even so, I know I will be missing out, and so will the children. They don't exist in suspended animation. I will miss out on a large part of their childhood b/c I was busy pursuing goals that had to do with my own childhood dreams and personal ambition and my not wanting to settle for anything less than what I know I am capable of, intellectually and so forth. (I was an EMT, which I loved, but that old dream of being a doctor just won't let me be). I think it is possible that I will later regret my decision. To say that this isn't a possibility would be naive. But I'd rather do it, and regret it, than not, and wonder all my life what it would have been like had I gone on to be a doctor.
I am not of the camp that thinks women should be willing to sacrifice all once children are in the picture. I think it is very healthy for my children to see me write (I write freelance) and work as an EMT and pursue my old dream of going to medical school. But, I am aware of the price that comes with pursuing such a rigorous, all-consuming career like medicine. And I know my whole family will pay that price should I be accepted to medical school and matriculate, not just me. That's the reality of it. Of course, there are great benefits to be had as well. Will the benefits outweigh that price? I have to believe that or I wouldn't be doing this. I can't know for sure but I am willing to take that risk. (I read once that residents have a 120% divorce rate...over 100% b/c of failure rates on second marriages...)
Anyway, this was not mean to be discouraging at all. Only to give you insight into what another mother of young children thinks about this matter, and I have thought about it quite a lot lately. I wish you great luck in your quest to gain acceptance to medical school.

 

[montessori2md]

I too, would look really hard at NP/PA/CRNA or research/pharm/PhD before I would dive into MD. In fact, I did 🙂

I would also have a serious chat w/ grandma and see if she could move in sooner than 3rd year, and to make sure the two of you could live together and raise the kids together happily for an extended period, including relocating for residency. I have a super husband, but we're thrilled to have my mom in the house now, and I'm not even an M1 till august. So many people warned me against having a parent live in, but another person in the house to help cook, etc, rocks.

Failing that, I'd start nanny/au-pair shopping, and relocate to the school where I was accepted and planned to attend as early as possible to get the household established before school started.

I think, in my household, my time outside of the home is harder for my spouse than for my son (he's 4), but more because of the inconvenience than anything else -he has to handle more of the silly errands that go along with being a parent and running a household than he did before.

 

[pseudoknot]

I read once that residents have a 120% divorce rate...over 100% b/c of failure rates on second marriages...

That's an urban legend, usually reported as a statistic from a specific residency program (typically in a surgical specialty).

Here's a paper with some real data on resident divorce rate (in surgery, no less). They found a "21.4% divorce rate post-residency."

Ann Surg. 2005 Oct;242(4):520-6; discussion 526-9.
A 25-year single institution analysis of health, practice, and fate of general surgeons.

Harms BA, Heise CP, Gould JC, Starling JR.

OBJECTIVE: The objective of this study was to analyze nearly 3 decades of surgical residents from an established training program to carefully define individual outcomes on personal and professional health and practice satisfaction. SUMMARY BACKGROUND DATA: A paucity of data exists regarding the health and related practice issues of surgeons post-residency training. Despite several studies examining surgeon burnout and alcohol dependency problems, there have been no detailed reports defining health problems in practicing surgeons or preventive health patterns in this physician population. Important practice factors, including family and practice stress, that may impact on surgical career longevity and satisfaction have similarly received minimal focused examination. METHODS: All former surgery residents at the University of Wisconsin from 1978 to 2002 were contacted. Detailed direct interview or phone contact was made to ensure confidentiality and to obtain reliable data. Interviews concentrated on serious health and practice issues since residency completion. RESULTS: One hundred ten of 114 (97%) former residents were contacted. There were 100 males and 14 females with 2 deaths (accident, suicide). Including deaths and those lost to follow up, 15 (13.2%) were non-practicing; 5 voluntarily (3 planned, 1 accident, 1 arthritis) and 4 involuntarily (alcohol/substance dependency). Eighty-nine percent were married or remarried with a 21.4% divorce rate post-residency. Major health issues occurred in 32% of all surveyed and in 50% of those ages > or =50. Only 10% reported complete lack of weekly exercise activity with 62% exercising at least 3 times per week. Body mass index increased from 23.9 +/- 1.5 kg/m (age <40) to 26.6 +/- 3.0 kg/m (P = 0.009) by age > or =50. Alcohol dependency was confirmed in 7.3%. Overall, 75% of surgeons surveyed were satisfied with their practice/career. CONCLUSION: Despite a high job satisfaction rate, surgeon health may be compromised in up to 50% by age > or =50, with a 20% voluntary or involuntary retirement rate. Alcohol dependency occurred in up to 7.3% of surgeons, which contributed to the practice attrition rate. The success and length of a career in surgery is defined by post-residency factors rarely examined during training and include major and minor health issues, preventive health patterns/exercise, alcohol use or dependency, family life, and practice satisfaction. Surgeons mentoring during the course of surgical training should be improved to inform of important health and practice issues and consequences.
PMID: 16192812

 

[GreyBlueEyes]

I too, would look really hard at NP/PA/CRNA or research/pharm/PhD before I would dive into MD. In fact, I did 🙂

I would also have a serious chat w/ grandma and see if she could move in sooner than 3rd year, and to make sure the two of you could live together and raise the kids together happily for an extended period, including relocating for residency. I have a super husband, but we're thrilled to have my mom in the house now, and I'm not even an M1 till august. So many people warned me against having a parent live in, but another person in the house to help cook, etc, rocks.

Failing that, I'd start nanny/au-pair shopping, and relocate to the school where I was accepted and planned to attend as early as possible to get the household established before school started.

I think, in my household, my time outside of the home is harder for my spouse than for my son (he's 4), but more because of the inconvenience than anything else -he has to handle more of the silly errands that go along with being a parent and running a household than he did before.

i've considered all those things. NP/PA is definitely not for me (i'm also not interested in IM or FP). my interest is in neurology and psychiatry. i really don't think i'm a PhD type. pharmacy IS something i'm considering. it wouldn't be as satisfying, but with my love of chemistry it would be more interesting than the other paths for me. i'm planning to go to ETSU to finish my BS because they have both a med school and a pharm school, so i could have some time to decide.

living with my mom wouldn't be a problem. i've stayed there for weeks/months at a time while my husband's at sea. i've already started searching for a possible single mom to live with in TN once i move there. I'm looking for someone who'd be willing to help with childcare in exchange for being able to work part time and spend more time with her own child(ren).

frankly, in some ways, going to med school without a husband would be easier. my husband gets pissy far more than my kids do when i have to spend time studying. my sons are very close in age and love playing together. hopefully that'll continue 😉

this thread has given me a lot to think about. i'll definitely be proactive in forming a village to help out 😉 i have a couple of friends who're interested in moving in to help, too. and who knows, there's always the chance that the counseling will actually start working.

 

[Flopotomist]

.

What's telling is that I've never heard anyone try to talk a Dad out of going to medical school for the same reasons. Huh.

Well then allow me to be the first to say this so as not to be considered a hypocrit. I think that single fathers with custody of their children should also think carefully about whether or not it will be fair to their children if they attend medical school.

I also have posted on several threads discouraging people from getting puppies while in medical school

Further, if I am on a rotation, and have to cover for somebody because they have childcare issues, and can't come in - I fully expect them to compensate me by picking up a shift for me. I certainly did not give birth to, nor father any of my classmates children so I expect that I should bear no burdens for their care.

 

[GreyBlueEyes]

Further, if I am on a rotation, and have to cover for somebody because they have childcare issues, and can't come in - I fully expect them to compensate me by picking up a shift for me. I certainly did not give birth to, nor father any of my classmates children so I expect that I should bear no burdens for their care.

i think that's completely fair. whether i'm single or married, i expect no special favors because i have children. i don't look for special allowances as a student now, either. in fact, i've had several of my professors comment on the fact that i take more personal responsibility for my performance than their childless, fresh-out-of-high-school students. believe me, if anyone ever covered a shift for me for ANY reason, i'd cover one for them.

this is why i hope to find a program that is more cooperative than competitive. if someone comes to me and asks me to cover a shift because they have a sick parent, my response won't be, "*i* don't have a sick parent. why should i bear the burden for the care of yours?"

not having children doesn't mean you'll never need help or leniency or compassion from your co-workers. just something to keep in mind.

 

[alpha62]

I'm not a single mother, but I've dated a bunch of them.

Having to deal with little Johnny's nightly meltdown just to get some horizontal time in with Mom was totally not worth it.

Expect the same amount of sympathy from your co-workers as well, who are getting paid the same as you.

 

[pseudoknot]

I'm not a single mother, but I've dated a bunch of them.

Having to deal with little Johnny's nightly meltdown just to get some horizontal time in with Mom was totally not worth it.

Expect the same amount of sympathy from your co-workers as well, who are getting paid the same as you.

Oh, that's a lovely sentiment.

 

[Perrotfish]

I always hear a lot of folks chime in about whether or not women with kids should go to medical school. Even if they're married, a lot of folks are "concerned" for the kids, since mom won't be arround for giving them enough love, attention, etc.

What's telling is that I've never heard anyone try to talk a Dad out of going to medical school for the same reasons. Huh.

As for not being around, lots of folks grew up in nice upper middle class nuclear families where mom was at home all day and dad went to the office. But for a lot of us, Mom had to really punch the clock to kick in on rent. We can't all be the Cleavers. And most of us turned out okay.

I think the reason you rarely hear people talk about Dad not going to medical school is that when there's a Dad, there's usually a Mom. When there's a parent who's not going to medical school then there's no issue for the parent who is going to medical school. In the rare case of a single Dad with full custody I think you would hear the same concerns. I've never heard anyone express concerns about a married parent, of either gender, attending medical school. Don't act like medical school is the same as your both parents working a 9 to 5, either, it's closer to 5-9.

To the OP: have you looked at programs that don't have the crazy all-day-every-day medical internships, maybe Dentistry or Vetrinary school? Those seem a lot closer to medicine than Pharmacy school.

if someone comes to me and asks me to cover a shift because they have a sick parent, my response won't be, "*i* don't have a sick parent. why should i bear the burden for the care of yours?"

BTW, not the same thing as ducking out for childcare, and no one is going to think it is. If one of your kids is chronically sick sure, you couldn't have planned for that and people will help it. If your kids are just in need the normal things that kids need? You could absolutely have planned for that, and no one (partucularly a sleepless Intern) is going to have any sympathy if you need to consistenly duck out early.

 

[GreyBlueEyes]

To the OP: have you looked at programs that don't have the crazy all-day-every-day medical internships, maybe Dentistry or Vetrinary school? Those seem a lot closer to medicine than Pharmacy school.

BTW, not the same thing as ducking out for childcare, and no one is going to think it is. If one of your kids is chronically sick sure, you couldn't have planned for that and people will help it. If your kids are just in need the normal things that kids need? You could absolutely have planned for that, and no one (partucularly a sleepless Intern) is going to have any sympathy if you need to consistenly duck out early.

since he said "cover a shift" i assumed he was talking about something out of the ordinary, not something on a consistent basis. i'm not even sure how this thread turned into people telling me no one's going to cover for my ill-preparedness. isn't that a given? if i go to med school, i won't expect special treatment. if i can't construct a situation that covers the expectations of the career, i won't pursue that career. i never once asked if anyone thought my co-workers would help me pick up the slack, nor do i expect them to.

pharmacy is more interesting to me than vetmed or dentistry. also, if i did psychiatry, or possibly neurology, the internship wouldn't be as demanding as something like EM or surgery.

anyway, the conclusion i've come to is to move to the area and try to establish a suitable support network while finishing my BS. if i do, i'll apply to med school. if i don't, i'll apply to pharm school.

thanks to those of you who posted something helpful 🙂

 

[RevGood]

Go for it. Children are resilient. They were never meant to be the center of the universe. They will live. You will manage. They will appreciate having a mother who is a doctor when they are older and have their own children.

 

[GreyBlueEyes]

They were never meant to be the center of the universe.

it's so nice to see someone else say this 🙂 so many people seem to think that you don't really love your kids if you don't make them the center of the universe, whereas i think doing that just produces spoiled people with a sense of entitlement.

thanks 🙂

 

[Perrotfish]

since he said "cover a shift" i assumed he was talking about something out of the ordinary, not something on a consistent basis. i'm not even sure how this thread turned into people telling me no one's going to cover for my ill-preparedness. isn't that a given? if i go to med school, i won't expect special treatment. if i can't construct a situation that covers the expectations of the career, i won't pursue that career. i never once asked if anyone thought my co-workers would help me pick up the slack, nor do i expect them to.

Well, I've heard M3s at my school complaining about mothers who do this. Same on the Allo-boards here. Happened at my old job too, though that wasn't medical. People are warning you about it because they've seen it come up many times before: some mothers feel that their kids are always an excuse no matter how many times it comes up. If you've know who's gonig to be taking the kids when you're at the Hospital for 36 hours then ignore the warnings. I know at least a couple of Parents in my class who manage to never use their kids as an excuse, so it's definitely doable.

pharmacy is more interesting to me than vetmed or dentistry. also, if i did psychiatry, or possibly neurology, the internship wouldn't be as demanding as something like EM or surgery.

You sure about this? Also keep in mind Phychiatry is competitive, the default is FP or IM. Also if you're interested psychiatry, why not a phychology doctorate? Not that it sounds like you want that, though, you sound pretty set on physician.

just more thoughts.

 

[QofQuimica]

My advice would be to wait to jump off the medical school bridge until you get there; some of your concerns may never even come to pass. There are a lot of uncertainties in your future: you might get divorced, but you used the word "if," so can I therefore assume there is also some possibility that you might not? A lot can happen in a year. You certainly don't need me to tell you how often things do not go according to plan. Right now, your academic focus should be on finishing college with a strong GPA and taking all of the pre-reqs if you haven't already. I'm not saying to forget all about medical school, but it's also not helpful to be planning out the next decade of your life in too much detail when you are in a period of major flux in your personal life. For the next year, try to shadow some docs and pharmacists while you finish your UG. See where you are at in a year in terms of school, your children, your husband, and your interests. At that point, you'll be in a much better position to evaluate whether medical school is going to be a realistic option for *you,* particularly if you've already had some time to see how manageable it is for you to be going it alone with your kids while attending school. Whatever you decide to do, don't beat yourself up right now about making the wrong decision in the future; when the dust settles after your divorce (if it happens), you may have more clarity about the right path to take. That's an awfully big sword to have hanging over your head. Best of luck to you. 🙂

 

[Ligament]

i do believe it is my inevitable destiny to be a single mother. right now i'm getting my BS in chemistry and have a 3.98. i still have a few semesters before i'll be done. i was planning to take the MCAT in a year. i've always done very well on standardized tests and was expecting a good score.

if i get divorced, do i have to give up on the idea of med school? my youngest is 3.5, so they'd both be in school by the time i started. and no, i wouldn't have any help from family. my parents don't live anywhere near a med school, so the closest i can get to family is still a few hours away.

i don't want to give up on med school, but i think it just might not be feasible anymore. thoughts?

I admire your drive and your apparent intelligence. I'm sorry your marriage is not working.

As a single male I could barely handle getting through med school, internship, residency, and fellowship. Just a very taxing ordeal regarding time and stress. I had enough time to maintain a relationship with my girlfriend through all those trials but just enough time for her and rarely anybody else. I know other people that got through it all with apparently less toll on their personal and social lives.

I don't know how you could do it as a single mother. I know one woman that did this; but her kids were teenagers when she started med school and she had alimony from the ex and also lots of loans. Even then it was tough for her with rather self sufficient teenagers.

The time demands will only get worse once you graduate med school and become an intern and resident. Its not just 80hrs per week; your schedule can and will change on a daily or weekly basis in some rotations, without your control. This will make caring for your kids very, very difficult.

"Hey GreyBlueEyes, we want you to pre-round on the surgical patients at 3am tommorow (instead of 5 or 6am) cause we got a busy OR schedule."
---this said to you at 9pm the night before.

What are you going to do when you tell the nanny or daycare center that you can't pick up your kids at 6pm as expected, and can't tell them when you CAN pick them up tonight, because you have an unstable patient in the ICU? I had many, many days where I expected to be done by 6pm and did not leave untill 1am, or hell even the next DAY and indeed could NOT leave until that time because I had to do the right thing and tie up all the loose ends with patients.

I think you could do it with a LOT of family support or a LOT of money so you could hire a nanny or au pair....otherwise I would proceed with caution. Med school is one thing, but the clinics are another and a totally different beast.

I do wish you the best and hope it can work out. I'm just trying to illustrate that once you enter internship and residency your schedule is not your own any longer.

 

[GreyBlueEyes]

responses across the board:

perrotfish: i don't want to pursue a psych phd. i considered that before med school. a bs in psychology, etc, isn't appealing to me at all. i love hard science. i love math and science courses. while i might enjoy practicing as a clinical psychologist, i don't think i'd enjoy the schooling process much.

q: guilty as charged 🙂 i'm an obsessive planner. also, if i do ultimately decide that divorce is what i should do, i won't have the courage to see it through unless i can clearly see my life on the other side of it. i don't know if that makes sense. i'm always open and flexible to changes, but i need to at least see a way to an appealing future.

ligament: thanks for sharing your experience 🙂 yeah, i should clarify. when i say i won't go to med school without a sufficient support network, i mean i won't go to med school unless i'm living with another caregiver so that i'm covered in ANY event. i've got a variety of possibilities that could work out with that. by the time i started residency my youngest would be 10, so they definitely wouldn't be as needy, but i still think it would be necessary to have another adult in the household.

 

[Corker]

I'm not a single mother, but I've dated a bunch of them.

Having to deal with little Johnny's nightly meltdown just to get some horizontal time in with Mom was totally not worth it.

Expect the same amount of sympathy from your co-workers as well, who are getting paid the same as you.

This has got to be the most insensitive remark I've ever read on SDN.

 

[Fashion2088]

I say go for it! It can "mos def" be done...I have seen it with my own eyes...pathologist who used to mentor me faced the same issue...A Im not a single parent, however i too have been faced with life trials...No father...mother on drugs...homeless...i had to drop out of school at 16 to work and take care of my younger siblings...so although im no single parent...i was a single caretaker...growing up in the slums is hard...what helped me was a book i read(and a lot of prayer lol)..."What I Learned in Medical School." Personal Stories of Young Doctors... You can find it at any bookstore...if they dont have it, they can order it for you...There are sooo many stories about troubles that young doctors had to face which included illegal immigrants to...yes...single mothers... i will be honest...your kids will not understand now...in fact...they may even rebel against you...but in the long run...they will be sooo proud of you....communication is the key...just talk with them, and tell them you have a dream of becoming a doctor...you also want to be a roll model to them in doing so...once they understand that...it will be a breeze...

 

[ExtremeUnderdog]

GreyBlueEyes,

First, I am sorry that you are at such a difficult junction in your life. I risk sounding trite, but divorce is not easy and is often complicated by orders of magnitude when children are involved, so my heart goes out to you - I know what a difficult decision this can be.

One thing to consider in your more immediate plans is the impact of the divorce on your current academic performance. In the event that you do decide to seek a divorce, please make sure that you give yourself enough time and space to deal with it in a way that it will not affect your GPA. (We all have our biases, and being someone whose professional plans and dreams have been nearly annihilated by a bad GPA, I am often on a mission to warn others about the low GPA monster.)

I will humbly suggest that children can simultaneously be the center of the universe and the impetus for the most strictly self-fulfilling ambitions of their parents. I consider my two children the center of my universe and strive to give them the happiest childhood, most balanced and stable foundation for life, and as many tools for building a bright future as I can. At the same time they motivate me to be the best person I can be for myself while setting a worthy personal example for them. I wish for them to reach for all of their dreams, to strive and achieve their most coveted goals, without abdicating their own happiness for the (imaginary) good of anyone else (including their future children), and the best way for me to ensure this future for them is to teach by example.

You have several things working to your advantage: you are a disciplined and organized person, you are an experienced mother, you have the real possibility of receiving help from your mother, and you live in a society which (despite its many shortcomings) allows for many options and possibilities ranging from streaming video lectures to independent study tracks, au-pairs and nannies (and loans to pay for them) to parent cooperative childcare networks, etc., etc. As a final thought, the most meaningful accomplishments (both on a historical, humankind scale and on a personal level) always seem to be borne of the most intractable conditions.

 

[notdeadyet]

You sure about this? Also keep in mind Phychiatry is competitive, the default is FP or IM.

Psych is actually one of the least competitive residencies out there.

 

[Lokhtar]

You sure about this? Also keep in mind Phychiatry is competitive, the default is FP or IM.

No, it is not. If you are a US allo graduate and want to go into psychiatry, you will have no problems whatsoever. And psychiatry and psychology are quite different.

 

[alpha62]

Oh, that's a lovely sentiment.

It's not like I haven't been supportive of single mothers in their careers.
I've eaten my weight in hot wings at Hooters in my lifetime... and I'm a big tipper.😉

 

[alpha62]

This has got to be the most insensitive remark I've ever read on SDN.

I save the sensitvity for the patients... everybody else needs to pull their own weight.

 

[Pemberley]

GreyBlueEyes:

I'm sorry that you have to deal with the pain of a troubled marriage. If you are still trying to save it, I'm crossing my fingers that you manage it; if it's past saving, I hope you can recover as quickly as can be expected.

As I don't have children myself, I really can't tell you for sure that it can be done, or can't be. Definitely in your place, I would look for something else that I would find satisfying, and do that if I find it. (Have you looked into the opportunities for specialization within the NP or PA fields? I ask this question in near-total ignorance of the fields myself.)

If not, do let us know how it works out. Your mother's support will definitely be key. Make sure that both of you have a clear understanding going in of what would be asked of her.

Finally, bear in mind that the vast majority of people giving you advice don't have children themselves -- I would love to give you a rosy picture (or even to be able to tell you kindly that it's quite impossible), but it wouldn't actually be based on experience.

 

[alpha62]

I have a child. I have been a PA for 20 years, I'm ex-military and I can understand your situation. I'm guessing your either Ft.Benning or Ft. Gordon and the whole army lifestyle sucks. It sucks for you, your kids, and your spouse.

My advice to you is to get with the Battalion Chaplain, or maybe even the Chaplains wife and get your marriage straight. You're well on your way to keeping the misery cycle with your kids going.

Medicine is a freaken grind. You're not going to get over in PA school, it's just not that easy. Majoring in Psych is isn't a subsitute for individual therapy.

 

[pittneuro]

hey I'm pittneuro and I have an issue. I'm 24, I graduated in 2005 (a month before my 22nd birthday) with a BS in Psychology with a Neuroscience minor. I wanted to do Neuropsychology until I worked in a Neuropsych lab and decided research isn't something I can do for the rest of my life. Anyway, I went back to my original decision of going to medschool and becoming a Neuro-Surgeon (finally got over the jitters of medical practice). So, here's the issue, I just found out that I'm pregnant(approx 4 wks). Im in the process of taking my prereq's for med school, just interviewed for a lovely Emergency Medicine Research Coordinator position at my undergraduate university which would save me a lot of money once I get the job (regarding cost of classes). My concern is how it would be possible to manage a new born (although my boyfriend will be super supportive), a new job, and eventually medschool when my child is around 2 years old...I've been stressing over this for a week now, so if anyone has any comments please feel free...Thanks A Bunch!
In regards to your situation blueeyes, I agree with the other poster. Don't give up on your dreams at all! It may seem hard at some moments but you'll be able to pull through if you truly want to become a doctor (and it seems like you do). ...now only if I can take my own advice.

 

[t-funk]

I have a child. I have been a PA for 20 years, I'm ex-military and I can understand your situation. I'm guessing your either Ft.Benning or Ft. Gordon and the whole army lifestyle sucks. It sucks for you, your kids, and your spouse.

My advice to you is to get with the Battalion Chaplain, or maybe even the Chaplains wife and get your marriage straight. You're well on your way to keeping the misery cycle with your kids going.

Medicine is a freaken grind. You're not going to get over in PA school, it's just not that easy. Majoring in Psych is isn't a subsitute for individual therapy.

The OP has not informed us of why she thinks she will get divorced and there could be an extremely good reason for it. If she says it is her ultimate destiny to be a single mother, she has probably already tried to rectify things. I don't really believe it is fair to tell the OP to work things out if her husband (Although I have absolutely no clue about this as well) is not a decent man. That would definitely keep the misery cycle going and her kids would not a have good role model to look up to.

 

[alpha62]

The OP has not informed us of why she thinks she will get divorced and there could be an extremely good reason for it. If she says it is her ultimate destiny to be a single mother, she has probably already tried to rectify things. I don't really believe it is fair to tell the OP to work things out if her husband (Although I have absolutely no clue about this as well) is not a decent man. That would definitely keep the misery cycle going and her kids would not a have good role model to look up to.

If she can't keep it together in the worlds biggest welfare system... i.e. the Army, I don't see how she's going to be able to compete in the free market of civilian life and civilian medicine.

 

[Perrotfish]

If she can't keep it together in the worlds biggest welfare system... i.e. the Army, I don't see how she's going to be able to compete in the free market of civilian life and civilian medicine.

I'm not sure what this means exactly. She said her relationship to the military is that her husband is in the Navy. How exactly does the fact the she doesn't know if she can make a marriage work with someone in the Navy mean that she won't be able to compete in civilian life or civilian medicine?

 

[alpha62]

I'm not sure what this means exactly. She said her relationship to the military is that her husband is in the Navy. How exactly does the fact the she doesn't know if she can make a marriage work with someone in the Navy mean that she won't be able to compete in civilian life or civilian medicine?

military wife/student ?

Ok as a student, all of your needs are cared for by the military. I don't see the " stress " I don't really see it at all. Tax Free rent allowance, free food, free everything, even better while hubby is deployed.

the only stress I usually saw in a WESTPAC widow was the pressure of how fast she could spend the money before hubby finds out.

Now we're pulling away the social safety net, how is that going to improve academic performance ? I'm not pulling any shift for that sort of thing.

 

[sunny1]

Interestingly, on SDN people will nearly unanimously say not to get a dog because they are too much work, and you won't have time to be a responsible pet owner, but people will inevitably jump on here to tell you what a great idea it is to be a single mother in medical school. Weird.

I don't think anyone is saying that it's a great idea to be a single mother in the medical world. Every post I've seens says it's hard but that it has been done before. Life presents us all with different challenges.

Now for dogs, I think I am in the minority in that I believe it *is* a great thing to have a dog, or at least to keep your dog if you already have one. It's such a source of happiness and stress relief for me. But here, as with kids, having a partner makes a big difference too. Or if you're worried about too many long days in a row until the weekend comes, there are doggie daycares where they can play with other dogs all day long and then you pick them up and they are so happy and tired (and they're better socialized for it). Now, this is clearly a better option for nontrads who have a financially supporting partner instead of deriving their incomes solely from loans, but I just wanted to throw it out there for what it's worth. Doggie daycare may sound yuppie, but it is awesome for the dog lovers.

 

[alpha62]

My daughter just graduated from nursing school. Single, no kids, RN by age 23.

She's spent about the last 10 years trying to rehab me from my sexist illness...

she calls me this AM whining because she has to work Christmas... they gave the day off to the single mother with kids on her shift.

another liberal cured by a 50cc bolus of real life.