Insider

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Hate to burst the bubble but how does this help international students? Where do people get the idea that it is currently "easier" for international students to stay and train in Australia?

Where do you plan to get your specialty qualification? You are not a "professional" until you finish your "vocational" training! Just what ASCO code are you planning to use? :confused:

Occupation ASCO code
Professionals
Medical Practitioner - General Medical Practitioner 2311-11
Medical Practitioner - Anaesthetist 2312-11
Medical Practitioner - Dermatologist 2312-13
Medical Practitioner - Emergency Medicine Specialist 2312-15
Medical Practitioner - Obstetrician and Gynaecologist 2312-17
Medical Practitioner - Ophthalmologist 2312-19
Medical Practitioner - Paediatrician 2312-21
Medical Practitioner - Pathologist 2312-23
Medical Practitioner - Specialist Physician 2312-25
Medical Practitioner - Psychiatrist 2312-27
Medical Practitioner - Radiologist 2312-29
Medical Practitioner - Surgeon 2312-31
Medical Practitioner - Specialist Medical Practitioners (not elsewhere classified) 2312-79
 
OP
Insider

Insider

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In general, North American graduates of Australian schools have NOT been able to obtain residencies in North America in a TIMELY manner. Hence, there has been increased interest in "staying" in Australia.

For Canadians, the situation is especially daunting. Residency in Canada has been next to impossible for recent AUS grads. Residency in the US is a very remote possiblity at best. Thus, some are pinning there hopes on training in Australia. As you said, this is not a realistic option.

Before accepting a position at any of these schools. Find out how many of their Canadian students have been able to successfully practice in Canada and the US. Ditto for US citizens in the US. In some cases, I suspect the answer is ZERO. If you can not get an answer to this question (and verify it to your satisfaction), naturally that should be a BIG warning sign.

Some of these schools give new meaning to the expressions, "You can't believe everything you hear"; and "BUYER BEWARE". So demand at least as much info from them as you would when buying a used car.

I came to Australia with the mistaken impression that Australian schools were probably roughly on par with the more well known Caribbean schools. In terms of either relevant medical education for practice in N. America or prospects for timely return to N. America, I was clearly wrong.

It's not a case of whining over immigration laws. It's not a matter of bitterness -- I made the choice to take the chance on Australia. Looking back on it, it was not a good choice. I am grateful and feel very lucky that I have solid connections in the US and have all but been assured admission to a residency program in the area I attend to pursue provided that I pass the USMLE. I began my USMLE prep prior to starting med school in Australia and I pursued it diligently over my 4 years there. I am putting the finishing touches on my prep now and don't anticipate a problem passing. [I would recommend taking a USMLE prep course PRIOR to starting medical school in Australia. I think it would help keep you focused on basic and clinical science. And give you a spring board to broaden your knowledge beyond simply the USMLE requirements.] I don't think my knowledge and skills will be up to par with those of American or Caribbean grads.

In addition to deficiencies in skills and knowlege, Australian schools do not seem to push students to develop the sort of endurance, cultural indoctrination and sheer concentration expected in the US. 30-40 leisurely hours a week is a much different life than 80-100 hours/week of full on training. On top of that add the endless study you must do to compete on that level.

In the current climate, I also fear that some of these schools could lose their recognition by foreign bodies in light of the increasing concern expressed in the academic and popular press over the quality of medical education in Australia. I am glad I finished when I did.

I don't think Australian immigration laws are particularily complex as they relate to international students! Rumors aside, the situation is quite straightforward: there is little opportunity for international students to pursue medical careers in Australia. I don't have a problem with this. Immigration policy is what it is. I think the misleading rumors, some of them propagated by the schools themselves, are problematic.

I do think it is important for people considering going to medical school in Australia to push the schools for the information they need to make informed choices and to gather as much information as possible DIRECTLY from licensing bodies and educational institutions, residency programs etc. in countries in which they intend to practice. If you are considering practicing in a country where you are not a citizen, do consult immmigration attourneys and migration agents. Initial consultations are often free. Attourney's fees for advice on such matters pale in comparison to the commitment you are considering!

Examine every aspect from every angle. Verify and re-verify the information you find. Don't use this board as a reliable source of information. Some of the posts may help you formulate your own questions. But seek information from legitimate sources and piece it together. Finally, I would recommend using some sort of rudimentary decision tree model.

In addition, any information possessed by state institutions in regard to placement of international students may well be publicly available under the states' FOI legislation. You can search for information about this on the state government websites. Obviously, you may not want to apply for release of such information under the same name that you intend to use to apply to medical school!
 

pitman

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May 23, 2003
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Queensland via Boston
Insider said:
In general, North American graduates of Australian schools have NOT been able to obtain residencies in North America in a TIMELY manner. Hence, there has been increased interest in "staying" in Australia.


Get off the crack, Insider. Unless you're trying to be sneaky by implying "TIMELY" = under 2 years like for St. G's or Ross, then you're flagrantly full of it. People come here to spend 4 (or more if undergrad) years. Then they typically return.

For Canadians, the situation is especially daunting. Residency in Canada has been next to impossible for recent AUS grads. Residency in the US is a very remote possiblity at best. Thus, some are pinning there hopes on training in Australia. As you said, this is not a realistic option.
Again, looks like you're trying some slight of hand here -- Canadians have an equally tough time getting back from ANY non-N. American school. Trying qualifying your statements accurately.

Before accepting a position at any of these schools. Find out how many of their Canadian students have been able to successfully practice in Canada and the US. Ditto for US citizens in the US. In some cases, I suspect the answer is ZERO. If you can not get an answer to this question (and verify it to your satisfaction), naturally that should be a BIG warning sign.
And since I know a load, maybe you should stop with your bogus scare mongering. I don't know what they teach you guys down in NSW, but maybe some more research abilities would be good.

I came to Australia with the mistaken impression that Australian schools were probably roughly on par with the more well known Caribbean schools. In terms of either relevant medical education for practice in N. America or prospects for timely return to N. America, I was clearly wrong.
Nice generalization. I think you are doc_with_no_country after all -- the king of myopia, seeing one personal experience as representative of a country.

I am grateful and feel very lucky that I have solid connections in the US and have all but been assured admission to a residency program in the area I attend to pursue provided that I pass the USMLE.
You've just refuted your own argument. Nice...or just maybe you're so *special*. :rolleyes: