Slippery elm can that cause cavities?????

[johnmerrick]

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[bigstix808]

go home and learn some grammar. good day.

 

[johnmerrick]

i

 

[SMC2UCLA2_]

Caries causing bacteria only act on sucrose with the enzyme glycosyl transferase. There are studies looking at the caries preventing properties of sorbitol and xylitol The studies find xylitol signifcantly more anti-cariogenic than sorbitol but I beleive sorbitol is far from cariogenic.

 

[The Hammer]

drink whatever you want just brush your teeth afterwards. Is that really that hard to understand?

 

[SMC2UCLA2_]

brushing your teeth after consumption of highly acidic soft drinks, juices, fruits, etc is actually less useful than you think as the mechanical abrasion in the presence of low pH environment leads to high periods of enamel loss. You should use mouthwash and swish with water or neutralize the pH with milk or other dairy product.

 

[The Hammer]

brushing your teeth after consumption of highly acidic soft drinks, juices, fruits, etc is actually less useful than you think as the mechanical abrasion in the presence of low pH environment leads to high periods of acid demineralization. You should use mouthwash and swish with water or neutralize the pH with milk or other dairy product.

1. Abrasion does not lead to demineralization. Abrasion is a purely mechanical act that does not cause any sort of electron displacement. It may aid in the breakdown of the enamel matrix but it will not in any way shape or fashion "demineralize" a tooth. Also despite what may still be taught in dental schools true toothbrush abrasion is rare. A nylon bristle is going to have a very hard time eroding enamel. What typically is being misdiagnosed as toothbrush abrasion is actually abfractions cause by occlusal forces.

2. Most people don't brush their teeth with the soda or juice still in the mouth. Usually they will swallow and swish with water before they start to brush. Your saliva will titrate the ph in your mouth rather quickly if you don't continually keep adding acid to it by sipping on soda or juice throughout the day. A tooth that has been exposed to fluoride and formed a fluorohydroxyapatite matrix will not demineralize that much upon exposure to acidic beverages in the mouth, it takes a continual exposure with a significant amount of time exposed before you start to see significant amounts of demineralization. It is a cumulative effect over time.

3. Rinse with mouthwash? Even though alcohol in water usually has a ph of about 7 the drying effect that the alcohol has in the oral cavity makes it more prone to decay than if you had just swished with water.

4. Heres some dentistry 101 for you. You need three things for decay: bacteria, sugar and time. Remove or disrupt any of these three things and you can't get any decay. Brushing disrupts the bacterial matrix and also removes the sugars because it stimulates the saliva glands which allows saliva to start to digest them before the bacteria can.

 

[jay47]

1. Abrasion does not lead to demineralization. Abrasion is a purely mechanical act that does not cause any sort of electron displacement. It may aid in the breakdown of the enamel matrix but it will not in any way shape or fashion "demineralize" a tooth. Also despite what may still be taught in dental schools true toothbrush abrasion is rare. A nylon bristle is going to have a very hard time eroding enamel. What typically is being misdiagnosed as toothbrush abrasion is actually abfractions cause by occlusal forces.

2. Most people don't brush their teeth with the soda or juice still in the mouth. Usually they will swallow and swish with water before they start to brush. Your saliva will titrate the ph in your mouth rather quickly if you don't continually keep adding acid to it by sipping on soda or juice throughout the day. A tooth that has been exposed to fluoride and formed a fluorohydroxyapatite matrix will not demineralize that much upon exposure to acidic beverages in the mouth, it takes a continual exposure with a significant amount of time exposed before you start to see significant amounts of demineralization. It is a cumulative effect over time.

3. Rinse with mouthwash? Even though alcohol in water usually has a ph of about 7 the drying effect that the alcohol has in the oral cavity makes it more prone to decay than if you had just swished with water.

Wouldn't this effect be offset by the amount of bacteria killed in the mouth?

4. Heres some dentistry 101 for you. You need three things for decay: bacteria, sugar and time. Remove or disrupt any of these three things and you can't get any decay. Brushing disrupts the bacterial matrix and also removes the sugars because it stimulates the saliva glands which allows saliva to start to digest them before the bacteria can.

You are predental...wow? It's all good except that last part. Salivary amylase breaks down polysacchardes into oligosaccharides and monosaccharides, both of which are likely more digestible by bacteria. However, it would clear away some of the sugar leaving less substrate for the bacteria.

Regardless of what you do, swishing with water twice after eating sugary foods is always the easiest, fastest and most compliable method of getting rid of those bugs (actually, the sugars they feed on). It may not be the most effective, but how many patients (or dentists in fact) just carry around a toothbrush and mouthwash all the time?

 

[SMC2UCLA2_]

1.Abrasion does not lead to demineralization. Abrasion is a purely mechanical act that does not cause any sort of electron displacement. It may aid in the breakdown of the enamel matrix but it will not in any way shape or fashion "demineralize" a tooth. Also despite what may still be taught in dental schools true toothbrush abrasion is rare. A nylon bristle is going to have a very hard time eroding enamel. What typically is being misdiagnosed as toothbrush abrasion is actually abfractions cause by occlusal forces.

Acid leads to demineralization. Diet sodas without sugar still can cause loss of enamel. Anything that lowers your oral pH will shift the equilibrium towards demineralization. While toothbrush abrasion is rare today, there was a period people used hard bristle toothbrushes.

In amelogenesis imperfecta type 2 (hypocalcification of enamel matrix) enamel is so soft that that it can be removed during a prophy. With this logic, it is rather intuitive that any abrasive force in the act of a lower pH (which is known to cause demineralzation, and hence loss of calcium, and phoshpate leaving weaker enamel matrix, albeit temporarily) contributes to loss of enamel, not by the pure act of demineralization or "electron transfer", but rather by scrubbing of the hypocalcified enamel matrix in a sub-micron lower level. Even though I think this is rather intuitive, it is well documented and well known: Here is 1 in vitro study abstract discussing removal of acid softened enamel: http://content.karger.com/produktedb/produkte.asp?typ=fulltext&file=000096106


2. Most people don't brush their teeth with the soda or juice still in the mouth. Usually they will swallow and swish with water before they start to brush. Your saliva will titrate the ph in your mouth rather quickly if you don't continually keep adding acid to it by sipping on soda or juice throughout the day. A tooth that has been exposed to fluoride and formed a fluorohydroxyapatite matrix will not demineralize that much upon exposure to acidic beverages in the mouth, it takes a continual exposure with a significant amount of time exposed before you start to see significant amounts of demineralization. It is a cumulative effect over time.

Your saliva is not that quick to neutralize the pH in your mouth. "Avoid tooth brushing immediately after an erosive challenge. Enamel remains softened and susceptible to mechanical tooth wear (abrasion, attrition) for at least one hour after an erosive challenge 41-43". Link: Erosion- Chemical and biological factors of importance to the dental practioner
https://www.dental-professional.ca/en/images/IDJ_Zero_Final.pdf

So no, you are wrong. sorry. Also

Citric acid, a component of many soft drinks is also known to contain chelator properties and thus binding calcium, prolonging the time for remineralization. Lots of studies looking at adding calcium or improving saliva supersaturation properties to counteract this right now.

3. Rinse with mouthwash? Even though alcohol in water usually has a ph of about 7 the drying effect that the alcohol has in the oral cavity makes it more prone to decay than if you had just swished with water

Who said anything about alcohol? How about the variety of alcohol free mouthwashes and fluoride rinses? Like i said, it is "recommended that you use a remineralising/neutralising fluoride rinse, sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) solution, milk or food such as cheese or sugar-free yoghurt after an erosive exposure" (same study as above)

4. Heres some dentistry 101 for you. You need three things for decay: bacteria, sugar and time. Remove or disrupt any of these three things and you can't get any decay. Brushing disrupts the bacterial matrix and also removes the sugars because it stimulates the saliva glands which allows saliva to start to digest them before the bacteria can.

You can have no bacteria and no sugar but still lose plenty of enamel. Please see pictures of bulimia patients.

 

[scottyhoop]

Someone is doing their homework! Nice!

Scotty

 

[The Hammer]

You are predental...wow? It's all good except that last part. Salivary amylase breaks down polysacchardes into oligosaccharides and monosaccharides, both of which are likely more digestible by bacteria. However, it would clear away some of the sugar leaving less substrate for the bacteria.

Regardless of what you do, swishing with water twice after eating sugary foods is always the easiest, fastest and most compliable method of getting rid of those bugs (actually, the sugars they feed on). It may not be the most effective, but how many patients (or dentists in fact) just carry around a toothbrush and mouthwash all the time?

My bad. I mean "dissolve" not digest. And unfortunately no, the number of bacteria killed by an alcoholic mouth rinse doesn't offset the damage that can be caused by its drying properties to the oral cavity. The flipside to this is it is extremely rare to see decay in a bulimic or someone with chronic GERD which considering how acidic the ph in their mouth is you would think that it would be heaven for the bacteria.

 

[The Hammer]

1.Abrasion does not lead to demineralization. Abrasion is a purely mechanical act that does not cause any sort of electron displacement. It may aid in the breakdown of the enamel matrix but it will not in any way shape or fashion "demineralize" a tooth. Also despite what may still be taught in dental schools true toothbrush abrasion is rare. A nylon bristle is going to have a very hard time eroding enamel. What typically is being misdiagnosed as toothbrush abrasion is actually abfractions cause by occlusal forces.[/I]

Acid leads to demineralization. Diet sodas without sugar still can cause loss of enamel. Anything that lowers your oral pH will shift the equilibrium towards demineralization. While toothbrush abrasion is rare today, there was a period people used hard bristle toothbrushes.

In amelogenesis imperfecta type 2 (hypocalcification of enamel matrix) enamel is so soft that that it can be removed during a prophy. With this logic, it is rather intuitive that any abrasive force in the act of a lower pH (which is known to cause demineralzation, and hence loss of calcium, and phoshpate leaving weaker enamel matrix, albeit temporarily) contributes to loss of enamel, not by the pure act of demineralization or "electron transfer", but rather by scrubbing of the hypocalcified enamel matrix in a sub-micron lower level. Even though I think this is rather intuitive, it is well documented and well known: Here is 1 in vitro study abstract discussing removal of acid softened enamel: http://content.karger.com/produktedb/produkte.asp?typ=fulltext&file=000096106



And? You might have noticed that I said "Abrasion does not lead to demineralization but it may aid in the breakdown of the enamel matrix. Did you have a point to make or were you just confirming what I had posted?

2. Most people don't brush their teeth with the soda or juice still in the mouth. Usually they will swallow and swish with water before they start to brush. Your saliva will titrate the ph in your mouth rather quickly if you don't continually keep adding acid to it by sipping on soda or juice throughout the day. A tooth that has been exposed to fluoride and formed a fluorohydroxyapatite matrix will not demineralize that much upon exposure to acidic beverages in the mouth, it takes a continual exposure with a significant amount of time exposed before you start to see significant amounts of demineralization. It is a cumulative effect over time.

Your saliva is not that quick to neutralize the pH in your mouth. "Avoid tooth brushing immediately after an erosive challenge. Enamel remains softened and susceptible to mechanical tooth wear (abrasion, attrition) for at least one hour after an erosive challenge 41-43". Link: Erosion- Chemical and biological factors of importance to the dental practioner
https://www.dental-professional.ca/en/images/IDJ_Zero_Final.pdf

So no, you are wrong. sorry.

Really? This is from the study you cite

This process is stopped when no new acids and/ or chelating substances are provided. An increase in agitation (e.g. when a patient is swishing a drink in the mouth) will enhance the dissolution process, because the solution on the surface layer adjacent to enamel will be readily renewed. Furthermore, the amount of drink in the mouth in relation to the amount of saliva present will modify the dissolution process. Citric acid common in many soft drinks may act as a chelator capable of binding minerals (calcium) of enamel or dentine, thus increasing the degree of undersaturation and favouring more demineralisation.

This pretty much supports what I said about the damage being cause through continued exposure to the acidic beverages.

Also

Citric acid, a component of many soft drinks is also known to contain chelator properties and thus binding calcium, prolonging the time for remineralization. Lots of studies looking at adding calcium or improving saliva supersaturation properties to counteract this right now.

Once again your point being? Does this somehow make my statement that the flurohydroxyapatite matrix is more acid durable than a calicumhydroxyapatite matrix? No in fact your answer to my first point actually confirms what I posted. So what am I wrong about exactly?

3. Rinse with mouthwash? Even though alcohol in water usually has a ph of about 7 the drying effect that the alcohol has in the oral cavity makes it more prone to decay than if you had just swished with water

Who said anything about alcohol? How about the variety of alcohol free mouthwashes and fluoride rinses? Like i said, it is "recommended that you use a remineralising/neutralising fluoride rinse, sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) solution, milk or food such as cheese or sugar-free yoghurt after an erosive exposure" (same study as above)

Maybe I didn't read the same post that you think you wrote because here is what you said " You should use mouthwash and swish with water or neutralize the pH with milk or other dairy product" I don't see you say anything here about a remineralizing/neutralizing fluoride rinse. You just say mouthwash and I hate to tell you this but the vast majority of mouthrinses on the market today contain a substantial amount of alcohol.


4. Heres some dentistry 101 for you. You need three things for decay: bacteria, sugar and time. Remove or disrupt any of these three things and you can't get any decay. Brushing disrupts the bacterial matrix and also removes the sugars because it stimulates the saliva glands which allows saliva to start to digest them before the bacteria can.

You can have no bacteria and no sugar but still lose plenty of enamel. Please see pictures of bulimia patients.

Ummm I was talking about DECAY. Please reread post number 4. I am talking about decay. I say nothing in my post about losing enamel, I am talking about decay. And as I posted you rarely see decay in a bulimia patient

Now I don't have any disagreement with what you have posted. In fact I thought I was adding to it but apparently you thought I was being critical of you which I wasn't (but I can understand if you are in dental school how it is easy to always be on the defensive.) Don't let dental school put you in a combat mindset when it comes to interacting with your peers because we are all in this together 👍

 

[SMC2UCLA2_]

drink some soda and brush your teeth 😀

 

[The Hammer]

drink some soda and brush your teeth 😀

That'll be $150 for "nutritional counseling" 😀

 

[doc toothache]

http://jada.ada.org/cgi/reprint/133/6/725.pdf