SMP list: January 2008

[Jack1919]

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Would one consider this an SMP?

http://www.jefferson.edu/jchp/ls/profMS.cfm

Now I know it's not a "true" SMP as in Georgetown, EVMS, or Cincy, but it does say in the FAQ's that one can use the program to strengthen applications to medical and doctoral programs. Plus you're taking Biochem, Molecular Bio, Histology, Genetics, and Pathology - although some of these classes may be geared more to Biotech.

Anyway, I wanted to see what people think of this program. Another graduate program that will really do no good in the end, or maybe a legitimate application booster? One of the reasons I like this program is because if for whatever reason things didn't work out as planned you would still have a MS in something viable (job opportunity wise) rather than say a Masters in Physiology.

 

[DrMidlife]

Would one consider this an SMP?

http://www.jefferson.edu/jchp/ls/profMS.cfm

Now I know it's not a "true" SMP as in Georgetown, EVMS, or Cincy, but it does say in the FAQ's that one can use the program to strengthen applications to medical and doctoral programs. Plus you're taking Biochem, Molecular Bio, Histology, Genetics, and Pathology - although some of these classes may be geared more to Biotech.

Anyway, I wanted to see what people think of this program. Another graduate program that will really do no good in the end, or maybe a legitimate application booster? One of the reasons I like this program is because if for whatever reason things didn't work out as planned you would still have a MS in something viable (job opportunity wise) rather than say a Masters in Physiology.

This is new - thanks for the heads up.

In this thread I categorized 4 types of SMPs (credential-improving post-baccalaureate programs). I'd personally categorize Jefferson's program as #4: "Programs, like JHU's Cancer Biology and probably Mt. Sinai's Biomed, that belong to a med school, but go well beyond the scope of improving med school app credentials." This new Jefferson program is casting a considerably wider net than just med school app credential improvement seekers.

More specific to your questions, if your interest in an SMP comes from having a weak undergrad GPA, then the more med-school-based programs are better suited to your case. What you get from Georgetown/EVMS/Cincinnati/Tufts/Boston/etc is demonstrated academic prowess alongside med students in med school classes. That's a pretty powerful app asset to counter a weak undergrad GPA (for which you will still have to answer).

Jefferson's program looks good to me for a candidate who has a solid undergrad GPA and MCAT, isn't totally convinced yet that med school is what they want, doesn't want to spend more than another year figuring it out, and has the financial wherewithal to handle the COA. Also, with it being a new program, there's no real way to predict how it'll be received by adcoms - not even Jeff's own adcoms.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Jack1919]

Dr. Midlife,

As always, thank you for the advice !!

I'm applying to several SMP's, and I think I will throw Jefferson into the mix as well. I'm planning on applying to DO only with a 3.3 science GPA and a 3.25 overall (AACOMAS GPA as I have had retakes in two classes). As for the MCAT, I'm practicing now with an average 34 (although I'm aware that this is subject to decline come test time based on several factors). I figure though that if I get a 30+ MCAT, coupled with my AACOMAS GPA and a competetive year at a SMP, even Jefferson's, I would be a competitive candidate.

My AMCAS GPA would be 2.9 for science and 3.0 overall, so I don't know if I would be competitive for any of their programs even with a strong showing at at a "true" SMP... We'll see...

 

[Diddy1684]

I posted this on the SMP thread as well, but I think it might also be answered here...

Not sure whether I should do an SMP or a Post-bac (advanced science). I applied to medical schools VERY late this year (think November/December), so I do not think that I will be getting any interviews. However, I do not think the late submission is the sole reason for this. Here are my stats:

MCAT (taken 4 times, oldest score expired/will expire for med schools next year)
August 2005 – 7P 6V 10B – 23M
April 2007 – 7P 8V 8B – 23O
August 2007 – 6P 7V 10B – 23M
August 2008 – 8P 6V 12B – 26M


Graduated from a top 50 university with a BS in Bioengineering in ’06 with GPA’s…
BCPM = 3.09 (fr 2.46, sp 3.67, jr 3.57, sr 2.86)
AO = 3.03 (2.6, 3.33, 2.68, 3.1)
Cumulative = 3.06 (2.51, 3.5, 3.07, 3.02

The reason for the low verbal scores is that I moved to the US at the age of 12 and literature/language was never my forte. However, I can speak/read/talk English and spanish fluently and also have a modest knowledge of french.

I am working at a well known hospital as a research study coordinator (interacted with physicians, patients, families) for two years now, I am a co-author in 1 journal publication and 5 abstracts (which will be published within the next year), volunteered during college at a hospital for 7 months (10 hrs/wk) and plan to start volunteering again in the spring as well as taking 2 undergrad science courses as part-time in a non-degree granting post-bac program at an ivy league .

So my questions are,

1) Should I apply to Post-Bac or Special Master programs?
2) Should I retake the MCAT (and hope to get a higher score?) to apply to SMP’s? Plan to retake it when reapplying to med schools either way (gotta raise the Verbal score.)
3) in the SMP thread it was recommended in a post to attend a Post-bac and then a SMP, has anyone actually done this?
4) I have applied to the medical schools as an URM and financially disadvantaged. Do SMP’s/Post-bac’s take this into consideration?
5) Which Post-bac’s and/or SMP’s should I consider applying to?

Sorry for the long post, but any input will by much appreciated!

 

[DrMidlife]

DrMidlife,

If you get a chance you might want to separate out two things on the USF link you have.

The MSMS as a 1 year masters and the IMS concentration specifically. IMS is their official SMP and the others are 1 year MS degrees to be grade boosters but more loosely speaking SMP/postbacs but not their official SMP. The IMS program also has a separate link with the USF Office of Diversity office. health.usf.edu/medicine/osde.

Yeah, I've been thinking the same thing - separating out the various programs at USF and Drexel, so that folks just getting up to speed have half a chance to navigate what is what. I couldn't get myself motivated to do this last year, but I understand a lot more this year so it's easier.

 

[VTHOKIE]

Hi guys I have been looking at various SMPs, however it seems that most programs are for students with poor undergraduate GPAs. I have 3.85 so that that is not my problem but I did get a 26P on the MCAT....would a SMP program help me?

 

[DrMidlife]

Hi guys I have been looking at various SMPs, however it seems that most programs are for students with poor undergraduate GPAs. I have 3.85 so that that is not my problem but I did get a 26P on the MCAT....would a SMP program help me?

I vote no. I vote you should clear your calendar for 4-6 months and study full time for an MCAT retake. Spend $1500 on a prep course instead of spending $50k on an SMP. And make sure you're a well-rounded candidate with interesting ECs and killer LORs.

 

[morgan19]

Thanks for posting the SMP list! I'm concerned whether I can get into an SMP:

cumulative undergrad gpa: 3.08
science undergrad gpa: 2.81
MCAT: 34S (Bio: 12, Phys: 11, Verbal: 11)

The science gpa includes 98 units of post-bac upper-level science courses at a upper-tier public university. Reason I did so badly in undergrad was health-related. I've done lots of research (one publication), community service, and am still taking 3 upper-level science courses per quarter while working full-time as a research assistant. But I'm concerned whether I can get into ANY SMP at all with my gpa/MCAT scores. Can anyone give me some feedback? Thanks!

 

[DrMidlife]

I'm concerned whether I can get into an SMP:

cumulative undergrad gpa: 3.08
science undergrad gpa: 2.81
MCAT: 34S (Bio: 12, Phys: 11, Verbal: 11)

Sure. 3.0 is the typical cutoff, and your MCAT is fine. Be ready to answer for why your science GPA is sub-3.0, and consider taking more undergrad to "fix" that number before you do an SMP.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Diddy1684]

Would it look bad if I were to do a Post-bac first so I can take advance level science courses as well as raise my UG gpa and then do an SMP? or would going straight into an SMP be best?

 

[KiwiBruin]

I'm no expert, but I think the point of a SMP is to telling Med Schools that you can do med school and you won't be wasting their time and resources. I think you should goto a SMP directly if you can get in, but if you can't, you should retake your classes and get your GPA up so that you can get accepted into a SMP later on. Hope that makes sense and anyone feel free to correct me.

Also, if you want to get into the more competitive SMPs you might want to raise up your GPA if it isn't high enough. I think a lot of people who do SMPs end up going to the school they do their SMP as long as they get like good grades...

 

[DrMidlife]

Would it look bad if I were to do a Post-bac first so I can take advance level science courses as well as raise my UG gpa and then do an SMP? or would going straight into an SMP be best?

Raise that GPA and take those upper divs. In my view you should keep doing undergrad to improve your GPA as long as it's fruitful. If you're spending a year in undergrad to buy an 0.1 improvement, that's not fruitful (not once you're over 3.0).

Furthermore, in my view, it's ridiculous and naive to do an SMP instead of retaking the MCAT. If you can't improve on a 25, how do you think you're going to do on the USMLE? (This comment is not directed at Diddy but at other postbac forum visitors.)

An SMP is what you do when there are no more options. It's the MOST expensive way to improve your credentials.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Diddy1684]

I will start applying to the SMP's next month and to post-bacs in case I don't get accepted into an SMP (hoping that's unlikely).

I am planning to contact a couple of SMP programs to see what they think, and will post an update so that people with similar stats can use in the future.

Thanks so much for your input Kiwi, DrMidlife and guju!

 

[KiwiBruin]

Hey Diddy. I am in a similar situation as you. Good luck with apps and maybe we might even see each other at the same SMPs. I will be applying later since I need to take the MCAT first =*( Hope to hear some good news from you soon though! ^^

 

[morgan19]

Thanks DrMidlife and gujuDoc for your reassuring advice! I feel that all my post-bac/mcat studying won't go to waste after all. I'll keep the thread updated on my stats/progress for future reference. (ps Happy new year, everybody!)

 

[morgan19]

Unfortunately, I'm from California. So there's little chance of getting into a UC school. I'm fully aware of this, which is why I NEED to do an SMP and, afterwards, apply to private med schools. Do you think even SMPs will be harder on me because I'm from California?

My ECs are: 2 years of undergrad research at Stanford SOM (resulting in 1 publication); 6 months volunteering as a clinical assistant in a free clinic serving a mainly Hispanic population (I am myself Asian); 8 months (and currently) serving as a sexual assault victims counselor; >1 year (and currently) serving as a research associate in a psychiatry/behavioral laboratory; 2 years as an editor of a campus literary magazine; 3 years volunteer piano teacher for underprivileged kids.

Also, I have had to support myself while taking post-bac science classes. So, while taking 3 classes/12 units per quarter, I've worked as a full-time psychiatric research associate and (before getting that job) as a real estate assistant AND assistant film producer simultaneously. So far, working full-time/taking 12 units has been ok - my post-bac GPA is 3.67 and I got all A's last quarter at UCSD.

If it would help to remind you, these are my stats:
Cumulative undergrad gpa: 3.08.
Science undergrad gpa: 2.81. This INCLUDES a post-bac GPA of 3.67 at a UCSD taking upper-division bio/chem.
MCAT: 34S (Bio: 12, Phys: 11, Verbal: 11).

I was at a very respectable undergrad univ. However, I experienced something traumatic in my soph year that led to the development of an illness that took a while to recover from (health-wise and, clearly, academically). I will try to explain this in my app, but I know, with so many applicants, schools will probably not consider it. So, after reading my stats/ECs - do I have a chance at an SMP, and which ones should I apply to? Thanks for taking time to give any advice!

 

[morgan19]

My current step now is to apply to SMPs and then do my AMCAS application either June 2009 or 2010. A question on SMPs: Are they on a rolling basis? Or will it make no difference whether I send in my application today or on their deadline? Reason I'm asking is because I'm still taking post-bac classes to raise my science GPA and want to include Winter (and maybe even Spring) Quarter grades on my transcript.

 

[DrMidlife]

...the eVMS BMS is a true SMP...To distinguish the true SMPs in the list above, I'd say the true SMPs that I can think of are RFU's program, USF IMS concentration only, Gtown SMP and Gtown GEMS for minorities, Wake forest postbac (mostly for disadvantaged and minority status kids), EVMS BMS, Drexel IMS, and BU MAMS...Tulane's ACP is a true SMP...Toledo's is also a true SMP but caters mostly to OH residents. however, if you want an SMP in OH then apply to Cincy's program. In Ill. other then RFU's program you have Loyola's MAMS which is also a true SMP. USF's non IMS programs are not SMPs...NJ's program listed also an SMP but not as widely known as some of the others.

Please provide your definition of "true SMP." My definition:
1. The whole point is to get you into med school
2. Single year program
3. In class with, and graded against, actual medical students.

This puts Loyola out of the running - no med school classes. Tulane is VERY different from Georgetown et al and is like a half-SMP: you take anatomy in the med school fall semester and then you can call it a year or take neuroscience spring semester.

I'ds also stay away from Tufts BMS cuz its 2 years.

Incorrect: it's a true SMP per my definition. You have the option to do a second year and get an MPH or whatnot.

Great timing for this discussion - we should co-produce the 2009 list.

 

[DrMidlife]

That sounds like a good idea. Also, I think point 3 is the major distinguishing factor for SMPs vs. other postbacs and other 1 year masters that are grade enhancers.

I might need to revise my "true SMP" call on Tufts, because you're not in class w/med students although you take med school classes. I'll look for some confirmation of whether you're graded against med students in the Tufts thread. The program is definitely just a single year. Tufts also offers MCAT prep support, which I think goes against the gestalt of an SMP (you should have a good MCAT score in hand so that you're ready to suffer hard in the SMP year).

I have a good opinion of Loyola, but there's no pretense of integration w/Loyola's med school. It's just grad school. My good opinion is based on my knowledge of an individual who got into my state's med school after doing Loyola. But I think Loyola defines the class of programs like the new Temple program and the USF non-IMS programs, and maybe the DO school programs, where there's maybe an interview guarantee (above a certain GPA) with the attached medical school, or at least the med school acknowledges its existence. As compared with Barry, where it's just grad credentials and maybe some clout w/Florida schools, but no med school and linkage.

What the new list really should do is state strong opinions (like we're doing here) to see if we can tease out strong truths. The list isn't static, regardless. What I'll plan to do is send you a draft of my update via PM and we can do some edit passes. I should have this together by mid-January.

 

[medhearter]

why aren't Tulanes programs in the AAMC searchable post-bac list?

With Braluk's permission I've dug through some lists and websites to get a current list of SMPs. Did you know there are more than 25 SMPs now? Personally I define "SMP" as any program that is specifically aimed at improving the credentials of med school applicants who have already completed the prereqs and taken the MCAT.

My intention with this thread is to keep the first set of descriptive posts up-to-date, based on posts that are added with folks' comments and corrections.

Here are some lists of SMPs that have an air of official-ness about them. All three are out of date.

AAMC searchable postbac list
The much-linked Syracuse list
U of Cincinnati comparison chart

Here is an alleged up-to-date SMP list, with links to each program's website. I'll add links to sub-posts about each program, stay tuned.

Barry
Master of Science in Biomedical Science
Miami Shores, FL

Boston U
Master of Arts in Medical Sciences Program
Boston, MA

Colorado State U
Masters B (MS-B)...in...Biomedical Science
Fort Collins, CO

Drexel
Several programs (MSP, IMS, MBS, MMS)
Philadelphia, PA

EVMS
M.S. in Biomedical Sciences - Medical Masters
Norfolk, VA

Georgetown
The Special Masters Program (SMP) in Physiology
Washington, D.C.

Grand Valley State U
Masters of Biomedical Sciences
Allendale, MI

Johns Hopkins
Master's Program in Reproductive and Cancer Biology (Master of Health Science)
Baltimore, MD

LECOM (DO)
Health Sciences Program for Post Baccalaureate Education
Erie, PA

Loyola
M.A. in Medical Sciences
Chicago, IL

Midwestern (DO)
Master of Arts in Biomedical Science
Glendale, AZ

Mt. Sinai Biomed
Master of Science Program in Biomedical Sciences
New York, NY

Mt. Sinai PREPMed
Post-Baccalaureate Research Education Program for Medicine (PREP-Med)
New York, NY

Northwestern
Masters Program in Neurobiology and Physiology
Evanston, IL

NOVA (DO)
Master of Biomedical Sciences
Ft. Lauderdale, FL

NYMC
Basic Medical Sciences Interdisciplinary Program
Valhalla, NY

U of Pennsylvania
Special Science
Philadelphia, PA

PCOM (DO)
Certificate of Graduate Study in Biomedical Sciences
Philadelphia, PA

PCOM - Georgia (DO)
Certificate of Graduate Study in Biomedical Sciences
Suwanee, GA

Rosalind Franklin or
Rosalind Franklin
MS in Biomedical Sciences
Chicago, IL

Temple
Advanced Core in Medical Sciences Program
Philadelphia, PA

Tufts
MS in Biomedical Sciences (MBS)
Boston, MA

Tulane ACP
Anatomy Certification Program
New Orleans, LA
Summary post

Tulane Cell
One-Year Masters in Cell and Molecular Biology
New Orleans, LA

Tulane Genetics
Master of Biomedical Science...in Human Genetics
New Orleans, LA

Tulane Pharm
Masters of Science in Pharmacology
New Orleans, LA

U. of Cincinnati
MS in Physiology
Cincinnati, OH
Summary post

U. of S. Florida
M.S. in Medical Sciences
Tampa, FL

U. of Toledo
Masters Degree In Medical Sciences
Toledo, OH

UMDNJ
Master of Science in Biomedical Sciences
Newark or Stratford, NJ

VCU
Pre-Medical Basic Health Sciences Certificate
Richmond, VA

Edited Jan 25 '08: added UPenn, added Tulane ACP summary link
Edited Jan 26 '08: added U of Cincinnati summary link
Edited Jan 31 '08: added Rosalind Franklin
Edited Mar 12 '08: added Stratford to UMDNJ location
Edited Sep 15 '08: added Temple
Edited Oct 9 '08: fixed Temple

 

[DrMidlife]

why aren't Tulanes programs in the AAMC searchable post-bac list?

Ask Tulane and/or AAMC. Also note that there's a June '09 version of this list, not stickied yet.

Edit: looks like it just got stickied. Yay!

Edit: no it didn't, apparently I'm illiterate. Here's the Jun '09 list: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=640302

 

[DaTruMD]

Where can I find the statistics of those who got accepted to these SMP programs?

 

[pinkya10]

I am still confused about this SMP program. The programs listed below - some of them are labeled 'SMP' and most of them just look like they are masters in biomedical sciences. Are they all SMPs??

 

[hopefool]

Hi Everybody 😉

I had a question regarding SMPs.

To give a brief background...

I hold a bachelors from Cornell University, but with a poor gpa. Between varsity baseball and tremendous focus on art and music, my academics suffered. I have since sold a thousands of dollars of my artwork for charity and am proud to say that I have artwork hanging in nearly 30 nyc area hospitals. My efforts in college to try and make a difference with my own unique skills were not in vain, however in so far as getting into medical school, I have dug myself a hole.

I recently took 60 science credits at Stony Brook, and earned a 3.6. I have many extra-curriculars, including ER volunteering, teaching assistant for 6 courses, EMT volunteer, fire dept., emergency medical and home healthcare research, illustrator of a published childrens book to list a few and although I rushed this application and my MCAT studying, was able to get a reasonable score of 29O.

That all being said, my cumuative gpa still falls just shy of a 3.0 which may still cause me to fall short of medical school admission for 2011. I am considering options for the 2011 year should I not gain acceptance and am considering an SMP.

Based on my background and my scores/gpa, what would schools/programs would everyone recomend for me? I feel hopeful that with a good performance in an SMP program, I can get into a medical school.

Thanks all for your time and help!

 

[XOT]

Dr. Midlife, I noticed this old thread and was surprised that you would include Grand Valley State University's Master's in BMS as a GPA enhancer. I graduated from there with a bachelor's of Science in BMS and I am currently taking UG upper-level BMS courses (Neurosci., Medical Virology, Cancer Biology, pharm).

Was there any specific info that you came by that made you feel like the master's program was intended as a GPA enhancer. Would it be recommended for such?

Thanks

 

[DrMidlife]

This SMP list was replaced with the "GPA enhancement" sticky at the top of the forum, which is also now quite out of date. Anybody who wants to volunteer to update the list is welcome to it.

Grand Valley was in my '08 list either because somebody asked about it here, or because it was in the AAMC list *and* looked plausible. When I updated the '09 list, Grand Valley no longer looked like a program for people pursuing med school - more like PT or nursing. Since we'd had no posters here who talked about it, I left it out of the '09 list.

In general, a sciencey masters degree that isn't hosted by a med school has no countering effect on undergrad GPA. If your undergrad GPA isn't competitive in Michigan, I would expect the Wayne State program would be more appropriate than Grand Valley or similar. That said, if your undergrad GPA is decent but you just want more exposure to upper div / grad science before med school, then doing a one year sciencey masters anywhere is reasonable.

If you think other folks should be considering Grand Valley, then write a review in one of the sticky threads. I think you're the first person who finished the program who has said so here.

Best of luck to you.

 

[XOT]

I actually did not get a master's in BMS, but rather a BS in BMS at GVSU. I would definitely not recommend this as a smart path towards Medical School for those who need to improve their GPA. I do not think the program has any linkage or weight with other medical schools. I really do not know what else to say about it. I was just surprised to see it on the list...

 

[Johnny38]

I have a few friends that have done the SMP at Georgetown, and here is my #1 warning to anyone who is interested in applying: Only apply to this program if you are a science major or have a science background. I'm not talking about having completed only the pre-med requirements. But rather, having taken numerous science classes.

To boost your GPA, you are much better off (if you are a non-science major) to take undergraduate classes at a local college or post-bacc. The classes in this program are designed for students who have seen this material before. Trust me. You will be in way over your heads if you decide to do the program. Again this applies to the non-science majors out there.

I have nothing to gain from writing this post at all - except simply to help others not make the same mistakes that some of my friends did a few years back.

Definitely consider it.

Jon

 

[longhorn2708]

Hey guys,

I am a biochem major, pre-med. I am graduating next year (May 2012). I took the mcat twice and got the same score. It its not a good score (below 28). I was wondering whether I should take it again or apply to a SMP next year. Should I even bother applying to medical school this summer?

Thanks

 

[eddiesolebury23]

Can anyone update the SMP for the recent years, according to the definition of SMP provided above

 

[deleted248403]

how strict are these programs with their minimum of 3.0 gpa. most of their website doesn't state it clearly, like wayne state who says student may be entered as "qualified applicants". Whatever that means, anyone with any experience car to share?
thanks

7 year old thread - good work

 

[DrMidlife]

Can anyone update the SMP for the recent years, according to the definition of SMP provided above

The person who made these lists did it because they needed the information to make good plans and decisions, just like you do now. Hmmm.