SMP or Caribbean?

[Unzbuzzled]

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I'm an M1 at a US MD school. I got here by doing a one-year SMP program. My undergrad stats are a 2.9 GPA from UW Madison and a 29 MCAT. I did some research, shadowing, and extracurriculars, but nothing ridiculous. My stats were average for caribbean matriculants, and maybe even low for SGU. My question to people is this: if you have the stats to get into the "top 4," you have the stats to get into an SMP (a US MD school linkage program). Why then would anyone choose to go the caribbean route?

 

[bedevilled ben]

I can obviously only answer for myself. I had essentially the same stats as you (3.0uGPA, 30 MCAT). I had excellent EC's, including 3 years of work experience in the ED, and 6 years of research experience with 3-4 medium-to-high impact publications. I'm a MS1 at SGU. In retrospect, I think if I'd applied smarter, I could have gotten into a low-tier US MD program, but I only applied to about 5 schools first cycle, resulting in one interview and no acceptances. Second cycle I applied a bit wider, but still only ~10 schools, 3 interviews and waitlisted at 1, and 1 acceptance at SGU. I came down here, because I'm a nontraditional student at 30 years old, and I'm starting to feel the pressure to move on with my career. Also, (and this was a pretty small part of my decision, really) my MCAT score expires after this cycle, so I would need to retake that as well. Also, my end-goal is emergency medicine, which SGU has historically had excellent placement for residencies, so that reduces some of the impact of being IMG. Just for my own personal development, I think it's been a good experience. Living outside the US is an opportunity many don't get to experience, and it does widen your perspective. This is valuable to me. It's a shame that doing so has cost me some of my perceived value as a physician in the eyes of some residency directors.

 

[Unzbuzzled]

Seems like you thought it out pretty good. Honestly, SGU is a decently-respected school, at least in the hospitals I've shadowed at. I'm not so sure about any of the other caribb schools. This could really start a fire-storm, but in the level-one trauma center I shadowed at, the MDs from SGU and Ross were more respected by the patients, nurses, and attendings than the DOs. There weren't any other Caribbean schools represented there (I'll leave the hospital name and location anonymous). I'm not sure why, or if this hospital was a rare case, but it's certainly the vibe I got. I think one of the worst parts of going to SGU is the fact that it gets thrown into the "Caribbean" pile with a lot of other horrible schools. But the education at SGU, from what I understand, is about as good as you can get off-shore.

 

[bedevilled ben]

Thanks for the feedback, and for the kind words regarding the program. There were actually a couple residents from SGU and a cardiac surgeon from Ross at the hospital I used to work at (children's hospital in the midwest, very well respected), so I'm cautiously optimistic about my residency prospects. I've witnessed that same attitude toward DO physicians myself, it's totally unfounded and needlessly divisive, and I hope it's on its way out. Medicine in the US has enough problems without us cannibalizing our own.

 

[CRCprofessional]

I'm an M1 at a US MD school. I got here by doing a one-year SMP program. My undergrad stats are a 2.9 GPA from UW Madison and a 29 MCAT. I did some research, shadowing, and extracurriculars, but nothing ridiculous. My stats were average for caribbean matriculants, and maybe even low for SGU. My question to people is this: if you have the stats to get into the "top 4," you have the stats to get into an SMP (a US MD school linkage program). Why then would anyone choose to go the caribbean route?

It seems that impatience is generally the reason people go the Caribbean route. They don't want to wait for the next cycle around, etc.

 

[Bancrofti]

I'm also MSI at SGU and I disagree for a couple reasons. My stats were very similar to both of yours. 3.0 GPA & 31 MCAT after retaking. URM and I had great ECs aside from not having a publication. When I researched SMPs before applying it seemed that most of the good ones had minimum GPA requirements (i.e. Georgetown). So I would have probably ended up and one of the lesser known ones like Eastern Virginia MS. My reasons for not going were:

1) there is no guarantee you will get into medical school afterwards
2) I'm <25, but had I applied to the program and gotten into one, it would have essentially been an extra 2 years before I started medical school because, at least from what I've read, it seems the people that get in who apply during the SMP already had solid GPAs beforehand
3) Money is really a factor since I already have a bunch of loans from undergrad and didn't have a lot of cash to go through applying to multiple graduate schools

All that being said, I was still going to apply to SMPs in the winter of 2011, but I applied to SGU and got my acceptance about 3 weeks later, so I just decided to take that route instead of fumbling with the unknown of what would happen if I did an SMP... if I even got into one.

Since choosing SGU I'm especially glad I did since I had a friend who forewent going caribbean after being accepted, did an SMP, and after applying is now attending DO school. So going to an SMP really isn't a guarantee for much.

As you already mentioned, SGU works its students and despite rumors floated around on SDN, they do care about the students and want to see everyone succeed. The preparation we receive is comparable/more challenging to that of US schools (as I've been told by people who did masters programs and came here afterwards) and we do not have to worry about finding rotations after basic sciences.

The only downsides are that we'll always be lumped as being "caribbean students," despite the fact that many of the SGU students could get into a lower-tier US allo school if applying broadly and most could get into DO schools. The other is the unknown of what is coming up in 2016 due to the funding for residency programs being crap and the increase in graduating US medical students. I try not to worry about it though.

 

[Skip Intro]

I feel badly for ANYONE going to medical school ANYWHERE at this point in time. The deck is stacked against you. It's a damn shame. Up until - and even including - now, the investment in blood, sweat, and tears has been worth it.

In the near future I foresee, at the rate we're going, a system that is full of PA/CRNPs/CRNAs and still not enough doctors. But, with expanding U.S. med school spots without increasing residency spots, I think many (if not most) incoming FMGs are just simply going to get squeezed out.

Couple that with decreasing reimbursements and a fatter/sicker population... social experimentation means those of us who are older will grow elderly in an healthcare system that will require us to be really, really sick before we get to see a physician let alone a specialist. And, that's a damn shame for what-is-still the greatest country on earth.

-Skip

 

[laricb]

I believe at some point they will have to increase the residency number or you will start seeing even US students going a different path. With the work and cost involved it wont be worth the risk. I also believe if the economy improves many US students will look at other career paths. There has been a large increase in applicants because of the poor job market in other fields....

 

[dsk89]

I feel badly for ANYONE going to medical school ANYWHERE at this point in time. The deck is stacked against you. It's a damn shame. Up until - and even including - now, the investment in blood, sweat, and tears has been worth it.

In the near future I foresee, at the rate we're going, a system that is full of PA/CRNPs/CRNAs and still not enough doctors. But, with expanding U.S. med school spots without increasing residency spots, I think many (if not most) incoming FMGs are just simply going to get squeezed out.

Couple that with decreasing reimbursements and a fatter/sicker population... social experimentation means those of us who are older will grow elderly in an healthcare system that will require us to be really, really sick before we get to see a physician let alone a specialist. And, that's a damn shame for what-is-still the greatest country on earth.

-Skip

We are not the greatest country on this earth. It's this American sense of greatness and arrogance that makes us feel like we don't have to work hard and are entitled to everything just cause we're American that has dragged our country down. The Pax-Americana era is over.

 

[deleted480308]

We are not the greatest country on this earth. It's this American sense of greatness and arrogance that makes us feel like we don't have to work hard and are entitled to everything just cause we're American that has dragged our country down. The Pax-Americana era is over.

Back to the point, we are still the greatest country on earth for getting into US residencies

 

[Unzbuzzled]

Back to the point, we are still the greatest country on earth for getting into US residencies

👍

 

[Skip Intro]

We are not the greatest country on this earth.

You haven't traveled much, I assume.

This is the only country in the world where you can start with nothing and make something out of yourself, no matter what your name is, the color of your skin is, or what your parents station in life was. The only one.

That alone makes this the greatest country on earth. Until that changes, you are simply wrong.

-Skip

 

[Top Gun]

You haven't traveled much, I assume.

This is the only country in the world where you can start with nothing and make something out of yourself, no matter what your name is, the color of your skin is, or what your parents station in life was. The only one.

That alone makes this the greatest country on earth. Until that changes, you are simply wrong.

-Skip

What about England, France, Germany, or Japan? Couldn't someone who immigrated to those countries also start from nothing and make something out of himself/herself.

 

[Giemsa]

This is the only country in the world where you can start with nothing and make something out of yourself, no matter what your name is, the color of your skin is, or what your parents station in life was. The only one.
-Skip

 

[Unzbuzzled]

1. I love Canada.
2. The US is boss if you want to be a doc. It has one of the best climates for physicians, although there are other countries where doctors enjoy a great lifestyle. But without a doubt it's certainly the best place to be educated IF you want to practice here. Going to a US med school opens the most doors.
3. Nice neutrophil🙂 I assume by your name and pic you'll make a great pathologist someday.

 

[Unzbuzzled]

1. I love Canada.
2. The US is boss if you want to be a doc. It has one of the best climates for physicians, although there are other countries where doctors enjoy a great lifestyle. But without a doubt it's certainly the best place to be educated IF you want to practice here. Going to a US med school opens the most doors.
3. Nice neutrophil🙂 I assume by your name and pic you'll make a great pathologist someday.

*to Giemsa

 

[medhope4]

It really depends on your age as well as other personal factors.

I'm 29 so I chose the caribbean. Had I been 22 or 23, it would have been a no brainer. I would have chosen an SMP , or even a biomedical sciences program and gone US MD or DO route. Better education, less hastle when getting rotations, and better residencies. Now I can still match into internal, open up a couple offices and make a sweet 280-300 k like a few of my family friends. But as far as matching into a competetive residency, maybe I get Anes or Rads if I'm EXTREMELY lucky and I kick tail on the USMLE. But such is life.

 

[Skip Intro]

What about England, France, Germany, or Japan?

No, no, no, and no.

England has a system that "tests" you early on, like when you are 10 or 12 years old, and your "fate" (if you will) is sealed on the outcome of those tests (i.e., the track you tack on the rest of your schooling is all mapped out for you).

France... well, France has just about the fairest (and most cutthroat) system for medical education in the world. Sink or swim, grasshopper. Sink or swim.

Germany? Don't even get me started... like Belgium, much more "classicist" than people realize.

Japan. Being a doctor in Japan sucks. I've worked with two Japanese doctors who trained in the Japanese system, and they couldn't run away from it fast enough. More important how much ***** you kiss than anything else to do with raw ability.

Couldn't someone who immigrated to those countries also start from nothing and make something out of himself/herself.

Immigrated? Or, emigrated?

Fact is, there are many countries where people are fighting to get out. Very few where people are fighting to get in.

You might have an argument in Canada with the change in the practice environment over the past ten years. Might. Then again, no private insurance... government healthcare... long wait times for "elective" surgeries (don't get me started about a friend who lost a brother-in-law because he couldn't get his thyroid cancer operated on)... so, I dunno.

If you have ability, perseverance, desire, and dedication (i.e., ambition), the sky is the limit in the U.S. Nowhere else in the world - yes, the world - is this true.

-Skip

 

[bambi]

No, no, no, and no.

England has a system that "tests" you early on, like when you are 10 or 12 years old, and your "fate" (if you will) is sealed on the outcome of those tests (i.e., the track you tack on the rest of your schooling is all mapped out for you).

That's just nonsense. Nothing prior to GCSE counts. GCSEs are sat at 16 (15 if you are the younger end of your year), bits of coursework for the 2 years leading up to that count but that's it. You sit SATs several times when you are much younger but they mean nothing.

 

[Skip Intro]

That's just nonsense. Nothing prior to GCSE counts. GCSEs are sat at 16 (15 if you are the younger end of your year), bits of coursework for the 2 years leading up to that count but that's it. You sit SATs several times when you are much younger but they mean nothing.

Oh, my bad. Your fate is sealed when you're 15 or 16. 🙄

-Skip

 

[bambi]

Oh, my bad. Your fate is sealed when you're 15 or 16. 🙄

-Skip

Not at all, that's just the first time anything counts.

 

[dsk89]

I've traveled plenty. I have to disagree still that America is the greatest country, as much as I love my country. I'm not really pointing out that there is a country that is better than us in every category possible, but our country has been struggling for some time now and I fear it's only a matter of time before we end up in Europe's situation. But this is just my own opinion, and I also respect yours.