SMP or Master's for me?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

wonderingwind

New Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2015
Messages
6
Reaction score
1
Hello, ya'll. I switched from pre dental to premed just recently but the problem is I'm graduating this december from undergrad. I turned down offers from great dental schools (they were really great schools. And dental profession is a great profession from my experience of exploring it) because I would like to really pursue medicine. But honestly, my GPA does not look good for medical school.

My GPA is 3.485 overall and my science GPA is even lower than that like around 3.42. I got nothing on my resume that can be used for medical school application except 300+ hours of volunteering and some 1000+ research hours. But I resigned from the research lab that I devoted 3 years to before I was going to publish a paper because my supervisor and I had different goals in our minds and conflicts arose.
So the question here is should I do SMP or graduate school to increase my chance of getting into medical school? For graduate school, I have a specific program that I would like to do: Public Health or Neuroscience. But I heard that medical school thinks an applicant's progress in SMP can prove more than that in Master's. Also, I read somewhere on SDN that doing a Master's doesn't really help anyone get into medical school because many medical schools look first at the applicant's undergrad gpa then make decisions mostly from that than looking at the applicant's grad school GPA. In my situation, which would be a more appropriate route to take?
 
The volunteering and research are good.

I would do an SMP if I were you- it would be more relevant to your future goal of medicine and I think they can improve your undergrad GPA while master's programs don't exactly do that. If you then do well on the MCAT I think you would be fine.

Another route would be to retake the classes you scored lower than a B- in and get A's. You could then apply DO since they do grade replacement. Your GPA would be much higher this route.
 
You need to take the MCAT before doing anything. Do you have an upward trend?
 
If your goal is simply to go to med school, never a Master's.

You have basically a 3.5 (AMCAS doesn't go to 3 decimals, btw, so you have a 3.49)...you don't even need an SMP, so honestly it's a big risk for no reason.

Take a few more undergrad courses to pull your gpa above that 3.5, focus on rocking the MCAT, and you're set. DO NOT do a Master's just for med school, it will waste your time and help your app approximately zero. Don't do an SMP; you don't need it and it opens you up to risk. Just take a couple of courses and take the time to really focus on the MCAT. Get the score you need the first time.

Use the time you spend taking courses beefing up your ECs. Honestly, that is a FAR bigger weakness in your app than your gpa, which really isn't that bad.
 
Your GPA's are fine for DO programs.

While a 3.48/3.42 is on the lower side of things, it's not lethal. You are pretty much exactly 0.2 below the MD median and above the 10th percentile GPA at a lot of lower tier programs. Low but not a death sentence.

That's a relatively high GPA to justify doing something as risky as an SMP. Don't do well in an SMP, all your med school dreams are gone. Even doing merely ok in one can hurt you I agree with others though, take the MCAT and see where you stand. Get a 511+ and if you have an upward trend I think it's worth while to just go ahead and apply. If you are really against the DO route, apply to some SMP programs and Temple's post-bacc while you apply to MD's as a backup. In your case, if it were me, given the risk SMP's can be I might only be inclined to pursue one if I have an unsuccessful MD cycle first. But again, if you are relatively open to the DO route, there really is absolutely zero need for an SMP and it would honestly be a foolish decision in that case.

You are right that some traditional masters program isn't going to do anything really to enhance your medical school qualifications.
 
SMP


Hello, ya'll. I switched from pre dental to premed just recently but the problem is I'm graduating this december from undergrad. I turned down offers from great dental schools (they were really great schools. And dental profession is a great profession from my experience of exploring it) because I would like to really pursue medicine. But honestly, my GPA does not look good for medical school.

My GPA is 3.485 overall and my science GPA is even lower than that like around 3.42. I got nothing on my resume that can be used for medical school application except 300+ hours of volunteering and some 1000+ research hours. But I resigned from the research lab that I devoted 3 years to before I was going to publish a paper because my supervisor and I had different goals in our minds and conflicts arose.
So the question here is should I do SMP or graduate school to increase my chance of getting into medical school? For graduate school, I have a specific program that I would like to do: Public Health or Neuroscience. But I heard that medical school thinks an applicant's progress in SMP can prove more than that in Master's. Also, I read somewhere on SDN that doing a Master's doesn't really help anyone get into medical school because many medical schools look first at the applicant's undergrad gpa then make decisions mostly from that than looking at the applicant's grad school GPA. In my situation, which would be a more appropriate route to take?
 
For a 3.5? Seems unnecessary and risky. Their biggest issue is a lack of ECs.
They have to take the MCAT first either way, they should take the year to beef up ECs, take a few courses (pull above that 3.5 mark), and prep for/take the MCAT. They'll be able to make a much better decision with a score in hand.
 
For a 3.5? Seems unnecessary and risky. Their biggest issue is a lack of ECs.
They have to take the MCAT first either way, they should take the year to beef up ECs, take a few courses (pull above that 3.5 mark), and prep for/take the MCAT. They'll be able to make a much better decision with a score in hand.

I think Goro was directly trying to answer the OP's question: of SMP vs Masters. An SMP will always trump a masters in terms of boosting your medical school credentials. Having said that, I agree, with that GPA if OP can get a decent MCAT score I wouldn't do an SMP unless I first have an unsuccessful cycle and am completely against the DO.
 
I think Goro was directly trying to answer the OP's question: of SMP vs Masters. An SMP will always trump a masters in terms of boosting your medical school credentials. Having said that, I agree, with that GPA if OP can get a decent MCAT score I wouldn't do an SMP unless I first have an unsuccessful cycle and am completely against the DO.
I know, but since Goro's advice carries extra weight I think it was worth making that clear rather than leaving it up to interpretation.
 
You need to take the MCAT before doing anything. Do you have an upward trend?
My GPA started out pretty low in my freshman year then I brought it up so yeah an upward trend except for a few bumps here and there. I'm planning to take MCAT in April.
Could you expand on that? I see that you're a verified faculty member, could I get more of your thoughts on my situation like why you think SMP is a better route for me? Should I not do SMP and take more undergrad courses and work on my ECs?
 
This. Grapo nails it again.

I think Goro was directly trying to answer the OP's question: of SMP vs Masters. An SMP will always trump a masters in terms of boosting your medical school credentials. Having said that, I agree, with that GPA if OP can get a decent MCAT score I wouldn't do an SMP unless I first have an unsuccessful cycle and am completely against the DO.
 
This. Grapo nails it again.
yeah you did answer my original question, which I greatly appreciate! Could I please please hear more of your opinions on why an SMP should be a better decision? Do you think like many others on this thread that an SMP might not be necessary for me? Should I do an SMP or not do an SMP and solely concentrate on ECs?
 
An SMP is specifically designed to prepare you for medical school, and SMPs have a reputation for being academically rigorous. Regular Master's programs tend to inflate grades and not be that difficult.

SMPs are best used to bolster the application of someone who has a low GPA. Yours is on the low side, but it's not that low. It's more than good enough to get you into medical school. Focus on other weaknesses.
 
yeah you did answer my original question, which I greatly appreciate! Could I please please hear more of your opinions on why an SMP should be a better decision? Do you think like many others on this thread that an SMP might not be necessary for me? Should I do an SMP or not do an SMP and solely concentrate on ECs?

You missed the point and what he was trying to say. You don't need an SMP. Nobody here is saying you do.

Your GPA with a good MCAT score has gotten alot of people into an MD school in previous years, especially with your upward trend. Focus on your EC's and your MCAT. Get a 511+ on the MCAT and focus on boosting your EC's and if you apply broadly and realistically, you stand a realistic shot at getting into an MD school(and you're almost a lock to get numerous DO II's). You should really only be thinking about an SMP if you have an unsuccessful cycle first and really are against the DO route, because SMP's are really risky, brutally difficult things. You don't just casually do one unless you really need one. You don't; a 3.5 is not some death sentence for MD admission, particularly with an upward trend.
 
Just for thoroughness, however, here is a breakdown of the common post-graduation paths people take to rectify low GPAs, taken from one of my prior posts. My apologies if anything specific to that original post slipped through and is still present:

As a quick overview:
Postbacc: Any undergraduate-level classes taken after graduation from college. These DO affect your AMCAS gpa calculations and can also be seen separately by adcoms (gpas are divided by year: freshman/sophomore/junior/senior/postbacc). This could be one class or many. You can take them piecemeal (DIY or informal postbacc) or as part of an official program (formal postbacc)
Formal Postbacc: A series of undergraduate classes designed for premedical students. Often these include the prerequisites and the programs are intended for career changers - these programs often do not accept students who have taken many med school prereq courses. Others are for GPA repair. These programs are usually 1-2 years long, require application, charge a set tuition (usually very pricy) and rarely have linkage or special consideration from their associated medical school. They affect AMCAS gpa
DIY Postbacc: Any set of undergraduate courses taken after graduation, typically in a pay-by-course fashion, from any combination of schools. This is less structured, requires no application, and never has any sort of linkage, but the scheduling and payment structure can be better for working folks. These also affect AMCAS gpa.
Masters: When used alone, this usually refers to a standard graduate school program. Typically on SDN this will be a research-based grad program, but can also refer to some specialized programs such as MPHs, etc. The GPA from these programs does not affect your AMCAS gpa (though it will be listed separately) and tends to be given low weight by adcoms due to varying rigor across the country and low familiarity (among other things). A low grad GPA can hurt you, but even a great one will not do much to offset poor undergrad performance. Generally the consensus is, do a masters if you would have done it anyway (aside from getting into med) or if it factors into the future career track you are considering in some way. Duration variable; some MPHs are a year, other masters can last several.
SMP: While this is also technically a master's program (special master's program), it is the exception to the rule above: these programs can strongly help offset a low undergrad GPA. It is essentially 'do med school to prove you can do med school'. Often, people will take courses alongside med students. However, do poorly in an SMP and you are basically done. Many of these programs have linkages to their med schools (or at least interview consideration). The price tag, however, is pretty hefty. These are pretty much universally 1yr programs.


As for 'why SMP instead of a masters?', it comes down to the differences explained above, but here are some more details:

Non SMP masters programs don't compensate for a low GPA, and so may have little real effect on your app. Why? Well, for non SMP master's programs, adcoms are not as familiar with interpreting those GPAs as they are uGPAs. I think also that the importance of the actual coursework (and thereby grades) varies widely by program, making it harder to gauge. So while completing a master's program will take time, distancing you from your prior academic shortcomings, and you can demonstrate that hey, you didn't do poorly in the courses you took, it may not do a great job of really showing that you were doing well, either. It's basically all the risk of not doing well with no reward if you do succeed.
More importantly, and I mean this 100%, you should not apply to a graduate program if you would not have done so if med school didn't exist. Getting any sort of graduate degree, especially one in science requires a lot of self-motivation, time, and focus. If it's not something you see yourself doing for the rest of your life, you probably won't be happy doing it, and you probably won't push yourself the way you need to in those programs. And again, it won't even necessarily help your med school application.

The only master's program which does really compensate for a low uGPA is an SMP - a special, expensive program where you take med school classes alongside med students in order to demonstrate that you can perform academically. It's a Hail Mary for the low-gpa applicant...if it works, you can overcome a lot. However, if you don't do exceedingly well, you end up down $50k with a meaningless 'degree' and pretty much zero future shot at medical school. The downfall of the SMP is not just the cost. It's that it is one final, all-or-nothing shot. If you pull a 3.7+, you're in good shape. Less than a 3.5 and you're likely worse off than if you'd never attempted it...and there's nothing that will redeem you from demonstrating directly that no, you can't handle med school coursework. It's generally not something to be undertaken unless your GPA is beyond redemption via normal means. I had a 3.1x after undergrad and I still thought a postbacc was a wiser, cheaper, and more effective route. With a 3.5, it's a completely unnecessary risk.


All of this is academic, however, because the weak point in your application is not even remotely your gpa. It's your ECs. So yeah...maybe take some DIY postbacc courses to bring that gpa up a bit, but only because you need at least a year (if not more) to bring your extracurriculars up to scratch, so you may as well throw in some gpa work if you can handle it (and prevent yourself from getting completely out of touch with being a student.)
 
Last edited:
Literally wowed at some of ya'lls very detailed replies. Definitely definitely helped me decide which route to shoot for. Thanks a lot!!!
 
SMP'S are auditions for med school. Ace them and they're the back door in.

yeah you did answer my original question, which I greatly appreciate! Could I please please hear more of your opinions on why an SMP should be a better decision? Do you think like many others on this thread that an SMP might not be necessary for me? Should I do an SMP or not do an SMP and solely concentrate on ECs?
 
Top