SMP vs. MPH

[michiegrl24]

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Hello Friends. I was recently accepted in UC davis' 1-year MPH program which i am EXTREMELY excited about. Finally something goes right. My undergrad gpa is 3.35 with science being around 3.15. I want to focus on community health and working prevention, therefore an MPH is important to my in my career path.

I'm also considering applying to SMP programs to become a better applicant for medical schools. I'm having a hard time deciding if i should do an SMP instead. Would I be a better med school candidate if i did an SMP and did well or if i came out with an MPH? Will it make a difference?

Any thoughts/suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

Best.

 

[deleted248403]

An MPH will not help your application to medical school other than being an interesting topic of conversation, in much the same like an EC is.

You grades are significantly below avg for an MD program and below avg for a DO program. You will need to do an SMP/Post-bacc program to raise your GPA to realistically have a shot at MD. An MPH does not do that.

Depending on your timelines you could do both an SMP and an MPH but if your long term goal is an MD, then i would forgo the MPH and just do an SMP.

Have you done the prereqs? taken the mcat?

 

[jslo85]

Hello Friends. I was recently accepted in UC davis' 1-year MPH program which i am EXTREMELY excited about. Finally something goes right. My undergrad gpa is 3.35 with science being around 3.15. I want to focus on community health and working prevention, therefore an MPH is important to my in my career path.

I'm also considering applying to SMP programs to become a better applicant for medical schools. I'm having a hard time deciding if i should do an SMP instead. Would I be a better med school candidate if i did an SMP and did well or if i came out with an MPH? Will it make a difference?

Any thoughts/suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

Best.

Hey I'm happy for you that you got into the MPH program at Davis. I'm a UCD alumni myself and I love the university. But from what you've wrote above, an MPH does not help you in any way to become a better medical school candidate other than as rob said, a point that they'll definitely bring up in your interview. Usually people do an MPH after they enter medical school between their second and third year. An SMP WILL help you get into medical school, but be selective on what SMPs will fit you the most, your GPA is low for MD schools, i might look into the 1 year programs and see if you have success there.

 

[michiegrl24]

thanks for your help guys. and yup, i'm done with all the pre-requisites. my mcat is a 29 (12bs, 8 vr, 9 ps). I'm taking it again in a few months and studying my butt off until then.

so even if i got high scores in the mph program, medical schools don't take that into account?

 

[deleted248403]

No, cos you aren't doing upper level science classes in an MPH. Thus its not really pertinent to medical school whereas upper level microbio or virology or biochemistry is much more applicable to medical school.

 

[DrMidlife]

agree w/robflanker.

In your shoes I'd probably go ahead and do the MPH because you're interested in it, and then try to work for a year or two within public health. Sacramento's right there... Retake the MCAT at some point, but not until you're ready to substantially improve your MCAT score. THEN I'd start aggressively working up a med school app (letters, essays) and do an SMP.

Basically this adds up to some high quality bake-time for you as a med school candidate with sub-optimal credentials in a state that has no patience for imperfection.

Also watch out for the impact of taking undergrad classes as part of a grad program. These grades will be reported as grad work and won't affect your undergrad GPA.

Best of luck to you.

 

[drizzt3117]

I'm on record as saying that a MPH does significantly enhance your application, at least at my school. I interview and evaluate students for our adcom and it certainly is more than a conversation point. A SMP will make a bigger difference but also carries significantly more risk with it. Doing very well in a MPH won't help you as much as doing well in a SMP but it's also easier to do well in a MPH, and do poorly in a SMP and you're done dancing. Anyways, my $0.02

 

[Morsetlis]

If you do poorly in an SMP, you shouldn't be a physician anyway. Doing an MPH just delays the inevitable. Nobody has time enough to get all the random Master's they want... otherwise I'd go to school for the rest of my life, cause that's fun to me.

 

[drizzt3117]

If you do poorly in an SMP, you shouldn't be a physician anyway. Doing an MPH just delays the inevitable. Nobody has time enough to get all the random Master's they want... otherwise I'd go to school for the rest of my life, cause that's fun to me.

That makes no sense, many ppl get into med school with MPHs w/o SMPs ( > 10 in my class). Also SMPs are a diff environment than med school. Doing well compared to med students (when they're pf) might show that you can succeed in med school, but doing just ok in that situation (which might in the end be almost as bad as doing poorly) doesn't necc mean you wouldn't succeed in med school, at least IMO.

 

[deleted248403]

Drizzt - but did the MPH make up for a low gpa for the 10 ppl in your class? Or was it in addition to there grades/mcat?

I highly doubt that 10 ppl in your class used an mph to make up for a sub-standard GPA. There might have been 1 or 2 that did but certainly not 10.

Again, IMO - an MPH is great if you already have a competitive app, but if you don't - its a waste of time

 

[drizzt3117]

Drizzt - but did the MPH make up for a low gpa for the 10 ppl in your class? Or was it in addition to there grades/mcat?

I highly doubt that 10 ppl in your class used an mph to make up for a sub-standard GPA. There might have been 1 or 2 that did but certainly not 10.

Again, IMO - an MPH is great if you already have a competitive app, but if you don't - its a waste of time

The OP has a ~3.4 GPA. They also have a strong interest in public health. I think a MPH is a good idea given the circumstances.

Certainly if you have a 3.0 GPA and 2.8 sGPA you would want to go in a different route than a MPH.

My point is that things aren't as cut/dried as ppl on sdn would make them out to be. As someone actually involved in evaluating candidates for admission decisions, I can tell you that the people reading your apps often value different things than what you think they might. For example, some of them might actually think that someone interested in community health and infectious disease who did a mph and in the process was involved in a community health and outreach project and community health research might be a more deserving candidate than someone who took a masters that has no purpose except getting into med school... Who knows?

 

[deleted248403]

My point is that things aren't as cut/dried as ppl on sdn would make them out to be. As someone actually involved in evaluating candidates for admission decisions, I can tell you that the people reading your apps often value different things than what you think they might. For example, some of them might actually think that someone interested in community health and infectious disease who did a mph and in the process was involved in a community health and outreach project and community health research might be a more deserving candidate than someone who took a masters that has no purpose except getting into med school... Who knows?

Drizzt whilst you point to what you care about and what you look for in a candidate. I can reliable point to my SO who is a 4th MS who is also involved in the interview process for her med school. Her take on mph is where i base some of my opinion.
I'll agree with you that its not cut or dry but just because you value it in a candidate, one can find other screeners who do not.

If the OP is truly interested in an MPH then they should find time to do it. If they get a better MCAT, then their lower GPA won't be noticed as much an MPH might have more bearing IMO. But assuming the MCAT doesnt change and nor does the GPA - i dont think an MPH gets the bang for the buck that an SMP does.
But if an MPH is truly an interest and not just dodging strategy then the OP should pursue either before med school or after.

 

[drizzt3117]

Drizzt whilst you point to what you care about and what you look for in a candidate. I can reliable point to my SO who is a 4th MS who is also involved in the interview process for her med school. Her take on mph is where i base some of my opinion.
I'll agree with you that its not cut or dry but just because you value it in a candidate, one can find other screeners who do not.

If the OP is truly interested in an MPH then they should find time to do it. If they get a better MCAT, then their lower GPA won't be noticed as much an MPH might have more bearing IMO. But assuming the MCAT doesnt change and nor does the GPA - i dont think an MPH gets the bang for the buck that an SMP does.
But if an MPH is truly an interest and not just dodging strategy then the OP should pursue either before med school or after.

Actually personally I have zero interest in public health. I would be much much more interested in candidates with significant research experience. That said, a lot of the people (attendings but esp med students) taking the time to sit on adcoms (it's a huge amount of work for ppl that are already really busy) are often really interested in global or public health. Also, and this is actually a critical and often underappreciated fact, SMPs are a pretty new phenemenon, some older attendings may not even know what they are. Even med students unless they did one or know someone that did may not be all that familiar with them. You can't assume they know as much about it as someone on SDN. They will certainly know what a MPH is, though. That's why rec letters and explaining them very well in a PS and secondaries are critical.

 

[Nafis64]

I'm just curious of what you guys think, but lets say you are getting an MPH from a top ranked mph school such as Johns Hopkins or North Carolina. And some of your MPH classes count as part of BPCM GPA, then what? Its true prestige is not everything, but the name must help especially if it fits with your overall application theme and those programs are difficult to get into anyway. It seems like sometimes SMPs do not help much until after you finish them anyway.

 

[drizzt3117]

I'm just curious of what you guys think, but lets say you are getting an MPH from a top ranked mph school such as Johns Hopkins or North Carolina. And some of your MPH classes count as part of BPCM GPA, then what? Its true prestige is not everything, but the name must help especially if it fits with your overall application theme and those programs are difficult to get into anyway. It seems like sometimes SMPs do not help much until after you finish them anyway.

The quality of the MPH certainly matters. Your classes don't count as BCPM though, they are graduate courses.

 

[DrMidlife]

I'm just curious of what you guys think, but lets say you are getting an MPH from a top ranked mph school such as Johns Hopkins or North Carolina. And some of your MPH classes count as part of BPCM GPA, then what? Its true prestige is not everything, but the name must help especially if it fits with your overall application theme and those programs are difficult to get into anyway. It seems like sometimes SMPs do not help much until after you finish them anyway.

Classes taken under a grad program count towards grad GPA. Sometimes. If AMCAS calls it one way, a med school can always call it another way.

If part of the rationale for doing an MPH is that you're betting that the BCMP classes in it will help fix your undergrad GPA, then the degree to which they fix your undergrad GPA is what's interesting. If you have a 3.4 and your MPH gets you to 3.6, that's probably worth it. If you have a 2.98 and your MPH gets you up over 3.0, again probably worth it (and you need more than an MPH in this case). If the MPH gets you from 3.14 to 3.16, not worth it.

If you have a sub-competitive GPA, an SMP might help your GPA problem. An MPH won't help your GPA problem.

 

[deleted248403]

If you have a sub-competitive GPA, an SMP might help your GPA problem. An MPH won't help your GPA problem.

+1
This is the route of my issue with ppl doing an MPH. They think it will help a sub-par GPA.
If you have a competitive GPA and are interested in MPH, go for it! It will help your app in terms of "interesting" factor esp if you do well in it.