SMP vs traditional masters

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giguerex35

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I am applying to DO school and was wondering about this. Was just curious if there was any downside to doing a traditional masters degree rather than a SMP. I know that there wont be any linkage but was curious as to the other aspects. Also the traditional masters would be at a school that does not have a DO program.

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According to this AAMC survey of MD adcoms, graduate degrees are not very important. For DO, a DIY postbac and a masters program are pretty much the same thing as far as how they affect your application. I'm not too familiar with SMPs but they seem to be looked at differently than a regular masters degree. I typically see more postbacs for DO and more SMP for MD so SMP probably carry more weight at MD schools. Your best bet is to do a SMP with linkage that has a guaranteed acceptance.

https://www.aamc.org/download/462316/data/mcatguide.pdf#page=10
 
I am applying to DO school and was wondering about this. Was just curious if there was any downside to doing a traditional masters degree rather than a SMP. I know that there wont be any linkage but was curious as to the other aspects. Also the traditional masters would be at a school that does not have a DO program.

Sometimes I feel like people who don't know what they are talking about just shouldn't post things on SDN.

Both masters and SMPs will improve your chances but tend to benefit those who have higher MCATs and lower GPAs (for many reasons that can be found in the post-bacc forum). Most importantly, they can show that you can do well in high level courses (which can alleviate some fears of a low GPA but not a low MCAT score).

Both will also help your chances at both DO and MD schools. A traditional masters, while more useful if you don't get into medical school, is less useful to use as a bridge into medical school. First there tends to be grade inflation in masters programs (for instance, many consider anything less than a B- a failing grade- causing everyone to get higher grades). Second they are usually not taken with the medical students and have a different bent to them. Since graduate programs don't affect your GPA, that you don't have a direct comparison to medical students makes them less useful to remediate a low GPA.

SMPs tend to be much, much more expensive (often >50K) but are worth the extra money since you have a much higher chance of getting into medical school.

But we need to know more about you to even decide if an SMP would be a resonable route, what are your stats.
 
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Sometimes I feel like people who don't know what they are talking about just shouldn't post things on SDN.

Both masters and SMPs will improve your chances but tend to benefit those who have higher MCATs and lower GPAs (for many reasons that can be found in the post-bacc forum). Most importantly, they can show that you can do well in high level courses (which can alleviate some fears of a low GPA but not a low MCAT score).

Both will also help your chances at both DO and MD schools. A traditional masters, while more useful if you don't get into medical school, is less useful to use as a bridge into medical school. First there tends to be grade inflation in masters programs (for instance, many consider anything less than a B- a failing grade- causing everyone to get higher grades). Second they are usually not taken with the medical students and have a different bent to them. Since graduate programs don't affect your GPA, that you don't have a direct comparison to medical students makes them less useful to remediate a low GPA.

SMPs tend to be much, much more expensive (often >50K) but are worth the extra money since you have a much higher chance of getting into medical school.

But we need to know more about you to even decide if an SMP would be a resonable route, what are your stats.
Not sure what the first sentence was for but... thanks for the info
 
SMP ussually has linkage with the medical school. A traditional masters is just that, a traditional masters.

There are very few "true" linkage programs for MD and DO schools. To me, the best deal seems to be either VCOM or LECOM, as both essentially guarantee you a seat in the next years class, provided you are not some wierdo. VCOM requires a 3.6 in their program, LECOM requires a 3.0, but LECOM is actual medical school coursework.
 
First your stats, because we have no idea if you really need a SMP.

You have to search hard to find an SMP with a guaranteed acceptance if you meet their requirements. However, that is a confounder that lead SMPs to take your money and leave you high and dry. I have seen SMPs with such requirements and guess what (ex. get 3.3 GPA and its a guaranteed acceptance)? Only half of the people actually get in. The thing you should investigate with an SMP is what percentage of the class enters medical school. If it is a high percentage, then it is a safer SMPs.
 
Words of advice:

Very few schools have real "linkage." This is a dumb thing to rely on.

A guaranteed interview means absolutely nothing.

When I say "SMP," I mean a masters program that is taken with medical students, and is essentially the same thing as the first year of medical school. Georgetown is the classic example. Some programs call themselves an SMP, but are really a more specialized masters.

A masters of Biomedical science (or similarly named masters) is usually a 30-credit masters that focuses on upper-level biology and medical school-style coursework. An example is BU's MAMS.

To get into medical school, you need As. Very few actual medical students can get those straight As in a med school... and a student who needs an SMP is pretty much never going to be as strong a student. So an SMP is a very high-risk proposition - you have a slightly better chance of getting into that school, but middling performance will hurt your chances elsewhere. An SMP is only a good option if you're an AMAZING student who can crush medical school coursework.

IMO a masters of Biomedical science is usually the best option, but it all depends on your application and your individual stats. Some people will benefit more from a post bacc, and some will be best served by an SMP. A "traditional" masters degree is often not the best idea unless it's very challenging, for reasons already posted.
 
I am applying to DO school and was wondering about this. Was just curious if there was any downside to doing a traditional masters degree rather than a SMP. I know that there wont be any linkage but was curious as to the other aspects. Also the traditional masters would be at a school that does not have a DO program.[/QUOT

Peach Newport is right. You gotta be wary of guaranteed interview SMPs.

There are SMPs with conditional acceptances right into their MD/DO program. Temple's ACMS comes to mind; it's 1 year of med school curriculum ( I think less credits than a typical first year). If you have like a 3.6 in that and I believe 65% MCAT by the end of your SMP they let you into the medical school matriculating class that next fall.

Programs that do this will state their "conditional acceptance" requirements. Temple's does pretty clearly. If an SMP you're looking at does not, they likely do not have a such a clear and defined institutionalized policy.

If it were me, I would apply to biomedical sciences masters programs just because I think that would be really interesting material to learn; but it's up to you. Good luck this cycle!
 
First your stats, because we have no idea if you really need a SMP.

You have to search hard to find an SMP with a guaranteed acceptance if you meet their requirements. However, that is a confounder that lead SMPs to take your money and leave you high and dry. I have seen SMPs with such requirements and guess what (ex. get 3.3 GPA and its a guaranteed acceptance)? Only half of the people actually get in. The thing you should investigate with an SMP is what percentage of the class enters medical school. If it is a high percentage, then it is a safer SMPs.
do you know where i could find those stats as i would assume the website would'nt post those things stats wise im at about 3.45cgpa and 3.25sgp mcat i took waiting for score still have one year left of undergrad. depending on my mcat i will be applying this cycle but would like to have a plan b as i know my sgpa is on the lower end...also should be noted my sgpa would be 3.3+/3.4 if i didnt bomb orgo the first time
 
do you know where i could find those stats as i would assume the website would'nt post those things stats wise im at about 3.45cgpa and 3.25sgp mcat i took waiting for score still have one year left of undergrad. depending on my mcat i will be applying this cycle but would like to have a plan b as i know my sgpa is on the lower end...also should be noted my sgpa would be 3.3+/3.4 if i didnt bomb orgo the first time

Schools may advertise this on there website. However, in most cases you will need to contact the school. You can also ask members on here if they know what percent of the students from their schools' SMP actually matriculate to medical school.
 
Schools may advertise this on there website. However, in most cases you will need to contact the school. You can also ask members on here if they know what percent of the students from their schools' SMP actually matriculate to medical school.
any advice from stats? would smp, traditional masters or post bacc be the way to go. The way i see it the main issue is the sgpa, assuming not a bad mcat.
 
I am applying to DO school and was wondering about this. Was just curious if there was any downside to doing a traditional masters degree rather than a SMP. I know that there wont be any linkage but was curious as to the other aspects. Also the traditional masters would be at a school that does not have a DO program.
DO schools will average your gGPA into your cGPA, while MD schools will not. Hence, your MS GPA will help if you do well. It will also provide a backup career-wise if med school doesn't work out. However, keep in mind that you need to prove to yourself that you can handle a med school curriculum. Doing well in "Seminars in Neuroscience" and "Research Techniques" can lull you into a false sense of optimism about your scholastic chops.
 
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do you know where i could find those stats as i would assume the website would'nt post those things stats wise im at about 3.45cgpa and 3.25sgp mcat i took waiting for score still have one year left of undergrad. depending on my mcat i will be applying this cycle but would like to have a plan b as i know my sgpa is on the lower end...also should be noted my sgpa would be 3.3+/3.4 if i didnt bomb orgo the first time

The AAMC has an official "SMP" search function page.. you basically plug in where you might want to go and what kind of program (record enhancement, career changers, etc) you're looking for.
 
DO schools will average your gGPA into your cGPA, while MD schools will not. Hence, your MS GPA will help if you do well. It will also provide a backup career-wise if med school doesn't work out. However, keep in mind that you need to prove to yourself that you can handle a med school curriculum. Doing well in "Seminars in Neuroscience" and "Research Techniques" can lull you into a false sense of optimism about your scholastic chops.
Do MD schools take an SMP or Masters into account as a separate component of your application, or do they not care as much about graduate coursework and focus mainly on undergraduate grades?
 
Do MD schools take an SMP or Masters into account as a separate component of your application, or do they not care as much about graduate coursework and focus mainly on undergraduate grades?
They look at SMP separate. Normal research MS programs are discounted by them due to grade inflation
 
They look at SMP separate. Normal research MS programs are discounted by them due to grade inflation

Don't you think that's a bit of an oversimplification?
 
Not sure what the first sentence was for but... thanks for the info
I think what instatewaiter was trying to say was people should use the search function prior to asking a question that has been asked repetitively on SDN. Don't mind that, instatewaiter's advice is solid.
 
Thanks all for the help. Another question for anybody on here. I saw that on VCOM's website they have the gpa requirements that must be maintained for guaranteed acceptance in the SMP for a given MCAT score. All of the MCAT scores however were in the 490s. Does that mean that the majority of those who apply to the SMP have an MCAT in that range, because i was under the impression that an SMP was more for gpa issues and that MCAT issues were usually resolves by a retake. With all that being said if someone were to get an MCAT in the 490s, get accepted to the SMP and maintain the gpa, would that imply that they don't have to retake the MCAT? I am still waiting for my scores to come back so was just curious as to what the procedure is. Thanks
 
Thanks all for the help. Another question for anybody on here. I saw that on VCOM's website they have the gpa requirements that must be maintained for guaranteed acceptance in the SMP for a given MCAT score. All of the MCAT scores however were in the 490s. Does that mean that the majority of those who apply to the SMP have an MCAT in that range, because i was under the impression that an SMP was more for gpa issues and that MCAT issues were usually resolves by a retake. With all that being said if someone were to get an MCAT in the 490s, get accepted to the SMP and maintain the gpa, would that imply that they don't have to retake the MCAT? I am still waiting for my scores to come back so was just curious as to what the procedure is. Thanks

I'm assuming you're referring to this from their website:

Cumulative Program GPA

MCAT

Faculty Evaluation

3.90-4.00

490 or above
(20 or above on old MCAT)

positive

3.70-3.89

492 or above
(21 or above on old MCAT)

positive

3.60-3.69

494 or above
(22 or above on old MCAT)

positive


I do think that most SMPs are in general for GPA "repair" but it seems this one is geared more towards just proving your ability to handle this material. I am also surprised that they don't specify the requirement of retaking the MCAT while in their program cause that seems to be the norm from what I've read.

With that said a 3.9 - 4.0 is a pretty high bar in an SMP so I suppose that they feel confident that if you hit that, even with an abysmal MCAT you're gonna be ok in real med school. I also imagine there aren't all that many people who get a 490, enter their program, and have a 3.9 or above.

I get my scores back tomorrow too man. Good luck!
 
I'm assuming you're referring to this from their website:

Cumulative Program GPA

MCAT

Faculty Evaluation

3.90-4.00

490 or above
(20 or above on old MCAT)

positive

3.70-3.89

492 or above
(21 or above on old MCAT)

positive

3.60-3.69

494 or above
(22 or above on old MCAT)

positive


I do think that most SMPs are in general for GPA "repair" but it seems this one is geared more towards just proving your ability to handle this material. I am also surprised that they don't specify the requirement of retaking the MCAT while in their program cause that seems to be the norm from what I've read.

With that said a 3.9 - 4.0 is a pretty high bar in an SMP so I suppose that they feel confident that if you hit that, even with an abysmal MCAT you're gonna be ok in real med school. I also imagine there aren't all that many people who get a 490, enter their program, and have a 3.9 or above.

I get my scores back tomorrow too man. Good luck!

Haha yeah dreading it a bit but good luck to you too. were you 6/30 test taker? But do you know anything about those accepted. Yes that is the info i was referring to which makes me think that many matriculants into the SMP program have an MCAT around that range. So do you know any info, gpa & MCAT averages mostly, of those who matriculate into these DO SMP programs. I searched for accepted SMP stats but didnt see anything.
 
Haha yeah dreading it a bit but good luck to you too. were you 6/30 test taker? But do you know anything about those accepted. Yes that is the info i was referring to which makes me think that many matriculants into the SMP program have an MCAT around that range. So do you know any info, gpa & MCAT averages mostly, of those who matriculate into these DO SMP programs. I searched for accepted SMP stats but didnt see anything.

I did take 6/30. Unfortunately I don't see anything on VCOMs site about the "successful SMP applicant." I referenced Temple's SMP with linkage in a prior post and they state a successful applicant has a 3.4 sGPA and a 3.4 cGPA. I imagine for a DO SMP the stats are probably lower. Clearly they are open to people with very low MCAT scores. Sorry I can't help you any further.. maybe there is a VCOM SMP thread on here somewhere..
 
I did take 6/30. Unfortunately I don't see anything on VCOMs site about the "successful SMP applicant." I referenced Temple's SMP with linkage in a prior post and they state a successful applicant has a 3.4 sGPA and a 3.4 cGPA. I imagine for a DO SMP the stats are probably lower. Clearly they are open to people with very low MCAT scores. Sorry I can't help you any further.. maybe there is a VCOM SMP thread on here somewhere..
no worries just figured id ask, maybe someone else on here will know. Anyway good luck tomorrow, wish you all the best and thanks for the help.
 
Thanks all for the help. Another question for anybody on here. I saw that on VCOM's website they have the gpa requirements that must be maintained for guaranteed acceptance in the SMP for a given MCAT score. All of the MCAT scores however were in the 490s. Does that mean that the majority of those who apply to the SMP have an MCAT in that range, because i was under the impression that an SMP was more for gpa issues and that MCAT issues were usually resolves by a retake. With all that being said if someone were to get an MCAT in the 490s, get accepted to the SMP and maintain the gpa, would that imply that they don't have to retake the MCAT? I am still waiting for my scores to come back so was just curious as to what the procedure is. Thanks

I find that strange that the school requires a 490 pre-SMP. This would make it seem super easy to do. However, when you are in the SMP and are studying for the MCAT at the same time, this would make more sense. I have seen people who do both an SMP and the MCAT, and totally crash and burn with scores in the 490s. So I have a feeling they are referring to this scenario.
 
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