SMPer to MD student

[NTF]

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My understanding is that SMPers take classes with med students. When they get into medical school wouldn't that make M1 and possibly M2 kind of a cake walk for them because they've already taken the classes (especially if they matriculate into their linked programs)?

Just curious.

 

[Deepa100]

I am curious about this too. I personally would not do yet another degree to get into med school but I keep getting invitations from schools I applied to in the 2008-2009 cycle.

 

[DrMidlife]

My understanding is that SMPers take classes with med students. When they get into medical school wouldn't that make M1 and possibly M2 kind of a cake walk for them because they've already taken the classes (especially if they matriculate into their linked programs)?

Just curious.

Definitely, it lightens the M1 load. Doesn't touch M2. Cake walk? I doubt it. Regardless, SMP grads are paying full tuition for all 4 years after shelling out $50k COA or so for the SMP. I think of it as med school on the 5 year plan, personally.

I don't think we're talking about more than 100-150 individuals, per year, that get a same-school benefit. Gtown has about 30, Cincinnati about 15, EVMS 15-20, unknown at Boston/Tufts/Drexel/et al but certainly not significant numbers. Loyola SMP students aren't in with med students.

SMP curricula are at most 2/3 of the host school's medical curriculum - usually less than half. So SMP grads can't go backpacking in Europe or whatnot during M1 - they'll be in anatomy lab with the other M1's (except at Tulane where they'll be in everything but anatomy/histo/neuro).

I'm told that at some programs, SMP students are pass/fail, but the med students have high honors/honors/pass/fail. So these SMP students sometimes retake the SMP coursework to get honors, and these schools leave the SMP grads out of the curve. SMP grads are also typically left out of the curve that current SMP students are on. In other words, "innocent" M1s set the curve and everybody gets measured by it.

I'm also told that SMP grads frequently work as TAs during their M1 for the courses they just took. Or do research. Or go to the beach. Frightfully expensive vacation, if so.

And all bets are off for SMP grads who go back to their state school or whatnot. They get nothing and like it, unless they petition out of M1 classes or challenge or what have you. Which puts them in the same category as the other M1s who did biosci grad work, I'd guess.

 

[Daedalus]

My understanding is that SMPers take classes with med students. When they get into medical school wouldn't that make M1 and possibly M2 kind of a cake walk for them because they've already taken the classes (especially if they matriculate into their linked programs)?

Just curious.

DrMidlife is right. An SMP definitely makes M1 significantly easier, no matter where you do it. If you go to the same school as your SMP and can pass out of the classes you already took, it will be a cakewalk (compared to your fellow M1s anyway) and you'll have plenty of time to study for and rock the classes you are taking. And even if you go to another school or have to retake some courses from your SMP year, it will still be easier since you've already taken the courses and have seen the material before.

Doesn't do anything to M2 though.

It really is like med school on the 5 year plan, and has its advantages and disadvantages. On one hand, its expensive and risky. On the other, you have two years to get used to med school and take in the information. Talking to some of the M3s at my school, I've heard that a lot of the former SMP students in their class rocked Step I (>250)

 

[NTF]

I've heard that a lot of the former SMP students in their class rocked Step I (>250)

😱 Holy smokes!

 

[Ohio SMP]

It really is like med school on the 5 year plan, and has its advantages and disadvantages. On one hand, its expensive and risky. On the other, you have two years to get used to med school and take in the information. Talking to some of the M3s at my school, I've heard that a lot of the former SMP students in their class rocked Step I (>250)

This is good news for a slow learner like me 🙂

 

[Daedalus]

😱 Holy smokes!

haha yeah well it probably has more to do with the intelligence and dedication of those students, but I like to think that the SMP year helped a bit too 😀

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

Makes me a little concerned about what admissions committees will ask for in the future -- I spoke with quite of a few of them after being turned down for admissions last year. One that I would consider an outlier recommended I do an SMP, the school in question would have had me take classes with M1s, and this director admissions recommended that I do well enough to be in the 80th percentile or so, including M1s, to boost my changes of admission to med school.

My concern if this is the trend to come is that some schools may see the large number of med school applicants and the small number of med school slots as a way that they can set the bar higher and higher, i.e. those who complete an SMP and do very well may be given a strong preference for admissions, as they have proven they can compete in a tough academic setting. Take this a step further, and candidates may start to feel the need to complete much of the M1 year prior to applying to med school.

Hopefully this won't be the case, this is my impression based on what one admissions director counseled me to do. (rather than bump up my MCAT a couple points + add clinical experiences, which allowed me to be accepted)

 

[Deepa100]

In India, students are not required to get an UG before they get into med schools. In the US, we do have the 4 yr. UG requirement. I think it is an overkill to expect students to spend another 40-50K for a Masters program before they can become evern more debt-ridden...
I mean, just how long are we expected to be in school before we can become doctors??

Makes me a little concerned about what admissions committees will ask for in the future -- I spoke with quite of a few of them after being turned down for admissions last year. One that I would consider an outlier recommended I do an SMP, the school in question would have had me take classes with M1s, and this director admissions recommended that I do well enough to be in the 80th percentile or so, including M1s, to boost my changes of admission to med school.

My concern if this is the trend to come is that some schools may see the large number of med school applicants and the small number of med school slots as a way that they can set the bar higher and higher, i.e. those who complete an SMP and do very well may be given a strong preference for admissions, as they have proven they can compete in a tough academic setting. Take this a step further, and candidates may start to feel the need to complete much of the M1 year prior to applying to med school.

Hopefully this won't be the case, this is my impression based on what one admissions director counseled me to do. (rather than bump up my MCAT a couple points + add clinical experiences, which allowed me to be accepted)

 

[DrMidlife]

Makes me a little concerned about what admissions committees will ask for in the future -- I spoke with quite of a few of them after being turned down for admissions last year. One that I would consider an outlier recommended I do an SMP, the school in question would have had me take classes with M1s, and this director admissions recommended that I do well enough to be in the 80th percentile or so, including M1s, to boost my changes of admission to med school.

My concern if this is the trend to come is that some schools may see the large number of med school applicants and the small number of med school slots as a way that they can set the bar higher and higher, i.e. those who complete an SMP and do very well may be given a strong preference for admissions, as they have proven they can compete in a tough academic setting. Take this a step further, and candidates may start to feel the need to complete much of the M1 year prior to applying to med school.

Hopefully this won't be the case, this is my impression based on what one admissions director counseled me to do. (rather than bump up my MCAT a couple points + add clinical experiences, which allowed me to be accepted)

I doubt that this will become much of a phenomenon, because there are very few SMP seats (~500, certainly no more than 1000) compared to the applicant pool (~40,000). The financials (for students) are hardly appealing - another year's worth of med school debt. But I do think that the demographic of the low GPA candidate, with more options for credential repair, and less fear of middle age, could be growing.

That said, I see a shocking number of students in the postbac forum who have a sub-30 MCAT (price tag to fix: maybe $1500?) on top of a competitive GPA, who are not hesitating to spend $50k on an SMP. Instead of improving their MCAT score. Holy smokes. So clearly there's something to the prospect of paying to audition for med school, instead of doing everything the way you're "supposed" to.

 

[NTF]

In India, students are not required to get an UG before they get into med schools. In the US, we do have the 4 yr. UG requirement. I think it is an overkill to expect students to spend another 40-50K for a Masters program before they can become evern more debt-ridden...
I mean, just how long are we expected to be in school before we can become doctors??

You can go that route in the US as well if you know medicine is what you want and you feel the need to get cracking at 18. There are several 6-7 year med school programs for graduating HS students

 

[Deepa100]

That's true. Youngstown and a handful of other schools have the 6yr. programs. I am past all that, with 2 Masters degrees. But, in all honesty, this SMP thing sounds like another easy way to make some $$$ for the med schools.

You can go that route in the US as well if you know medicine is what you want and you feel the need to get cracking at 18. There are several 6-7 year med school programs for graduating HS students

 

[camaras2480]

It is a cake walk, in the event you attend the school you did the SMP at, AND YOU DECIDE TO MAKE IT A CAKE WALK - i.e. you more or less ignore the classes you have already taken, and just do Anatomy, Neuro, Genetics, and whatever other small classes are lying around. However, I certainly don't recommend making it a cake walk, since Step I would still only be a couple years away. I support looking at it as 5 year med school.

Most schools do indeed stay under 30, sometimes even under 20, in terms of accepting students from their own SMP program. I actually had a list but I can't seem to locate it at the moment...how helpful.

As an example, the BU program grades the SMP students on a standard A-F scale, while Med students are P/F. SMP students are curved...but as to whether or not it is the same curve as the med students...I have not entirely been able to figure out. But I do think I have it figured out. I'll post it when I can confirm it.

SMP grads do indeed frequently take up TA'ing or straight up tutoring during M1. They tutor either fellow Meds or the new class of SMPers. Research is usually done in parallel with this TA'ing/tutoring, and of course whatever other classes remain to be taken.

DrMidLife indicated that all bets are off for SMP grads going to a different school. This is true. Although you (hopefully) have a stronger background, you still get a whole new experience, and the petitioning/challenging almost never works.