sniffing out trouble on the wards

[epsilonprodigy]

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From posts here and talking to upperclassmen, one thing's clear: on rotations, you get yelled at and belittled. A lot.

If this is the norm, how are you supposed to tell whether you're getting it or not? It seems like pretty much everybody gets chewed out, or gets a lot of evals that don't parallel what they were told verbally.

 

[sgemmell]

From posts here and talking to upperclassmen, one thing's clear: on rotations, you get yelled at and belittled. A lot.

If this is the norm, how are you supposed to tell whether you're getting it or not? It seems like pretty much everybody gets chewed out, or gets a lot of evals that don't parallel what they were told verbally.

You know, I haven't been yelled at or belittled on rotations. Yeah, I've been corrected - but never in a rude or demeaning way. I do know other students that have been belittled, yelled at, etc., etc. (one attending called a student a 'fluffer' recently).

What I have found best to avoid getting yelled at -- read, look things up, be proactive. If someone does yell at you or belittle you - don't take it personally. Learn from it and move on.

If you don't know something - there can be a couple of different types of attendings and residents. Those that want you to attempt to reason through and come up with an answer; and those that would rather you say "I don't know, but I will look it up". Don't expect them to tell you the answers, and if you say you are going to look something up, do it, and in a timely manner.

My evals have always paralleled what I was being told verbally. If I needed to improve in an area, and was told about it, my evals reflected that. If I was doing well in an area, my evals reflected that.

I thought I was just lucky, except I've worked with some preceptors I have been told can be hard on students (though, never the one that called a student a fluffer, it's my understanding that it doesn't matter what you do, he will belittle you at some point during your rotation with him).

 

[mimelim]

Limited experience, but every time someone was yelled at or belittled, I thought it was 'somewhat' deserved.

If you lie about something, "Oh ya, the dressings were clean/dry/intact" and the reality is there is bright red blood coming out the side. Or, "I changed his vac dressing yesterday." (and you didn't). Or, "We have lecture today from 1-5, see you tomorrow" (you actually have lecture from 1-3 and just want to go home instead of coming back to the hospital).

If you show up late, dress inappropriately, etc etc it is hard to feel sorry for you. Yes, maybe there are better ways to teach or explain, but most students ask for it.

Again, haven't seen it happen very often, but I haven't seen a "for no reason explosion". Virtually every "hardass resident/attending I have worked with has been a hardass. But, they don't go around kicking puppies and making people cry just for the hell of it.

 

[NeuroAP86]

You know, I haven't been yelled at or belittled on rotations. Yeah, I've been corrected - but never in a rude or demeaning way. I do know other students that have been belittled, yelled at, etc., etc. (one attending called a student a 'fluffer' recently).

What I have found best to avoid getting yelled at -- read, look things up, be proactive. If someone does yell at you or belittle you - don't take it personally. Learn from it and move on.

If you don't know something - there can be a couple of different types of attendings and residents. Those that want you to attempt to reason through and come up with an answer; and those that would rather you say "I don't know, but I will look it up". Don't expect them to tell you the answers, and if you say you are going to look something up, do it, and in a timely manner.

My evals have always paralleled what I was being told verbally. If I needed to improve in an area, and was told about it, my evals reflected that. If I was doing well in an area, my evals reflected that.

I thought I was just lucky, except I've worked with some preceptors I have been told can be hard on students (though, never the one that called a student a fluffer, it's my understanding that it doesn't matter what you do, he will belittle you at some point during your rotation with him).

I agree with this 100% and I also went through the same exact thing. I was always proactive and constantly looking or reading up on topics. On one my IM rotations another student got chewed out badly because the attending told him to look something up and he didn't know the next day when asked. I was told he was a tough attending but I never got yelled at by him. I always had the impression that I kept getting lucky every month too but I guess I'll find out in a couple months when I go electives at other places.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Generally if you do what you're supposed to do most attendings won't yell at you for no reason.

However, most students will generally have a time where they don't know something or forget something critical. This is better than 1) not looking something up you were told to, 2) making stuff (about physical/lecture timings as mimelim said above). You may get scolded, but try your hardest to not take it personally. Try to figure out (with help from your resident if he/she is present if you can't figure it out yourself) what you did wrong and what to do to make it not happen again.

The reason you see so many posts on SDN about it is because we come here to vent. Generally those venting aren't going to admit they are at significant fault.

 

[jackets5]

I can count on one hand how many times i saw students get belittled during medical school excluding my surgery rotation. However, on the surgery rotation it was one specific resident who was awful resident/person, who was insecure as a doctor and person and she took it out on the students. Other than that the other residents/attendings were very nice and never did anything close to be consider out of bounds.

The other times was for 2 students awful clothing decisions on two occasions. one girl was wearing a shirt where her boobs were literally popping out and the other guy showed up in sweatpants one day and jeans the next and the attendings chewed them out in front of everyone in morning report and in noon conference. But again they totally deserved it since this was the second time it happened.

 

[willen101383]

The only time I was straight up belittled was during my G surg rotation when I was on a vascular (6 hour long) case. I was sick as a dog with a fever and attempted to pull over a stool to sit down at the table. My attending kicked my foot and said "I dont allow fcking ******* in my OR, you stand or you get out." So I stood up and walked out. The same guy burned me with the harmonic a few weeks prior to this incident. And then I decided I was going into EM. lol

 

[VenusinFurs]

If you're ill, just take the day off. You can actually get away with this as a student, and it definitely looks better than walking out of the OR.

 

[jerseytrash]

If you're ill, just take the day off. You can actually get away with this as a student, and it definitely looks better than walking out of the OR.

I got sick in the middle of the day on my first day of surgery and I was on call. I thankfully had a good attending but it's sometimes not as clear cut as you're making it out to be. That guy sounds like a real horse's ass.

I was occasionally belittled by the OB residents for basically being there to take the brunt of their frustration and misery. Sometimes it's not the students' faults as people are making it out to be on this thread; there is such a thing as malignant personalities in medicine although I haven't encountered it too much.

 

[jerseytrash]

You know, I haven't been yelled at or belittled on rotations. Yeah, I've been corrected - but never in a rude or demeaning way. I do know other students that have been belittled, yelled at, etc., etc. (one attending called a student a 'fluffer' recently).

What I have found best to avoid getting yelled at -- read, look things up, be proactive. If someone does yell at you or belittle you - don't take it personally. Learn from it and move on.

If you don't know something - there can be a couple of different types of attendings and residents. Those that want you to attempt to reason through and come up with an answer; and those that would rather you say "I don't know, but I will look it up". Don't expect them to tell you the answers, and if you say you are going to look something up, do it, and in a timely manner.

My evals have always paralleled what I was being told verbally. If I needed to improve in an area, and was told about it, my evals reflected that. If I was doing well in an area, my evals reflected that.

I thought I was just lucky, except I've worked with some preceptors I have been told can be hard on students (though, never the one that called a student a fluffer, it's my understanding that it doesn't matter what you do, he will belittle you at some point during your rotation with him).

Honestly I've never seen someone really yelled at for not knowing something. Usually they'll just get critiqued and move on. On the other hand, all the yelling I saw had more to do with the rotten personalities of the residents who were doing the yelling.

 

[sgemmell]

Honestly I've never seen someone really yelled at for not knowing something. Usually they'll just get critiqued and move on. On the other hand, all the yelling I saw had more to do with the rotten personalities of the residents who were doing the yelling.

Maybe I've just lucked out - I've never really been yelled at for anything and I've gotten along well with the vast majority of residents I've worked with.

I guess if a student feels that they are getting yelled at or belittled constantly, especially if on multiple rotations even more so if the rotations are at different sites, they should look at what the common factor is - them. Sure, I'm sure there are residents out there with bad personalities. However, if one person is experiencing the same thing over and over again, they need to look at their own role in the experience. Are they lacking knowledge (so they come across as a giant idiot)? Do they have a bad attitude? Etc., etc.

 

[willen101383]

I got sick in the middle of the day on my first day of surgery and I was on call. I thankfully had a good attending but it's sometimes not as clear cut as you're making it out to be. That guy sounds like a real horse's ass.

I was occasionally belittled by the OB residents for basically being there to take the brunt of their frustration and misery. Sometimes it's not the students' faults as people are making it out to be on this thread; there is such a thing as malignant personalities in medicine although I haven't encountered it too much.

I am typically not one to go in while sick, but I was feeling pretty okay and rapidly got worse over that day. Either way, I dont give a fck who you are, you arent going to say $hit like that to me in the OR and expect me to stand there without saying anything. I will take some abuse, but getting called a pu$$y crosses the line. I took my pass on that rotation and never looked back.

 

[survivordo]

The only thing you can control on rotations is what YOU do as a student. You can't worry about your attending/resident/fellow students. As long as you go in there and work your butt off everyday and then do your best to prepare at home for the next day you will have a clear conscious when someone is being an A**. Doesn't mean it isn't annoying but if you know you are doing your best then it should help it roll off your shoulders.

Survivor DO

 

[sgemmell]

The only thing you can control on rotations is what YOU do as a student. You can't worry about your attending/resident/fellow students. As long as you go in there and work your butt off everyday and then do your best to prepare at home for the next day you will have a clear conscious when someone is being an A**. Doesn't mean it isn't annoying but if you know you are doing your best then it should help it roll off your shoulders.

Survivor DO

I absolutely agree.