Attendance and Professionalism on Rotations

[nybsm786]

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[Dr. Anonymouss]

You should be familiar with your own schools policies, it is dependent on each school. My school allows for 3 professionalism violations before they make it on your MSPE. So basically, you get 3 strikes.

 

[Bloobury]

Whatever you do, just don't lie about it. I think that's where people have gotten in trouble in my program (saying they completed a certain number of hours when they haven't, etc). If your preceptor dismisses you or you finish whatever you've been tasked with, you're good to go. Otherwise you're in a murky area that I don't think anyone can really advise you on, other than to tread lightly. Each school will have their own policies and level of enforcement, but you def don't want to be that person who gets caught and has to come before the professionalism committee to explain why you didn't think the rules applied to you.

 

[cj_cregg]

Honestly, it's going to be highly dependent on your school and whoever you managed to tick off by skipping the thing you were supposed to do. Some people won't care, some people will make a big stink. Not worth the risk imo. Professionalism issues mentioned on the MSPE are incredibly rare so they stand out in a very bad way when present.

 

[thumbz]

Super attending dependent as to what happens if you get caught. Some make it their mission to make you pay, and may go as far as failing you on a rotation. Some give you a warning. Some make sure it makes it into your MSPE.

A professionalism flag is MASSIVE and a kiss of death. They're rare, and always stand out in the MSPE.

 

[EthylMethylMan]

Having excessive amounts of scut work, or even nothing to do at all, does indeed suck. Attendings tasked with precepting medical students should not be doing this. In fact, you should reach out to whoever is in charge of your school's clinical rotations and tell them about this. That said, leaving early is definitely an unprofessional "solution," and not worth the risk as everyone else has basically said. Just bring a review book/a device to do UWorld on/something else productive. You could be really slick with your down time by working on some kind of research project. (I did a chart review project and a case report in med school that were basically 100% computer work.) There's almost certainly stuff you can do to fill the time.

 

[guytakingboards]

School dependent as everyone says. Know your school's policies as everyone says.

My advice: read the room and be cautious when in doubt. Ask around to upperclassmen and people who've done rotations before you what types of things are kosher. E.g. skipping a lecture here or there may be fine on one rotation but not on another.

 

[Esmolol]

I think that is overall good advice for med school - "If in doubt - don't do it!"

 

[Redpancreas]

As a DO student on rotations, I was curious if you guys have seen anybody get dismissed or get a MSPE professionalism violation (basically screws you out of anything but unfilled residency programs) for doing things like skipping lectures, leaving early etc. etc.

Because we go through rotations that are a lot of sitting around and involve scut work without much learning, especially us DO people, it's more common than you'd think for students to skip mandatory stuff at rotation sites and just go awol.

Only on my 2nd rotation so haven't seen much yet of people getting caught, is this serious stuff? Are you risking your future career if you get caught missing a morning lecture at a hospital before your rotation, or just leaving without telling anyone? I'm not necessarily asking an opinion on this or defending it, I'm asking if you have any anecdotes at US medical schools MD/DO where students got screwed over missing a few hours of rotations.

1.) Stop identifying yourself as a DO (ex. as a DO, especially as a DO). You are a medical student. I say that as an MD. There are plenty of MD programs with similar quality of rotations. There's this self-hate amongst DOs that their sites are bad, but how do they know for sure? Have they rotated at other DO schools? Yes, many choose to rotate at MD sites but also keep in mind DOs only see a fraction of what the school experience is like. Maybe it's more prevalent to have shadowing experiences at DO schools, but most schools have at least a site or two with similar experience. Your proactivity makes a bigger difference and all it takes is to have one motivated mentor even at a DO school that have a good experience.

2.) In terms of your question about disciplinary action for professionalism violations, it's a bad question to be asking SDN in general because this highly varies based on individual people who run the rotations. Yes, policies across institutions are governed by the same LCME body, but you'd be surprised how one school would treat something like skipping a lecture vs. how another one would. You may also be surprised at how one school treats student A who skips a lecture vs. student B. Therefore, I would not play any odds or try to game the system. I would try to be as proactive as possible in your current setting because soon enough you are going to be expected to take ownership of patients. If your school is truly as lax as you make it seem, then put in the work expected or slightly which doesn't seem to be a gargantuan amount and then you'll have plenty of time to do things outside of work. All it takes is one person with an axe to grind because you hurt their precious ego and they can basically ruin or set back your entire career for it. There is no due process or union to protect you from being black-balled as a student.

3.) When in doubt, act in good will and have a good attitude. Reputations get spread easily and the better yours is, the easier time you'll have.