So graduate GPA doesn't help??

[Blondnuttyboy]

I was reading around and caught the note that ADCOMS say a high graduate gpa isn't really a big deal and doesn't offset a low undergrad GPA?

So wtf are you supposed to do to boost a lower undergrad gpa? Go back and take undergrad classes?

I find it soooo hard to believe that taking a master's level science class could look worse than taking 300 level micro classes...

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Meatwad]

I was reading around and caught the note that ADCOMS say a high graduate gpa isn't really a big deal and doesn't offset a low undergrad GPA?

So wtf are you supposed to do to boost a lower undergrad gpa? Go back and take undergrad classes?

I find it soooo hard to believe that taking a master's level science class could look worse than taking 300 level micro classes...

There's a lot of reasons why that is, which you'll find by reading through other threads with similar questions to yours. Basically they expect you to do well in your master's classes, you usually MUST maintain a high average (B or above) in a master's program, which may lead to a more generous grading policy, they expect you to love the field you are studying, so there's no reason to do poorly, etc. etc.

So let's say you had a 2.99 gpa from undergrad, and a 4.0 in a master's in biochemistry. You probably aren't going to get in anywhere because a computer will screen out your undergrad gpa. SMPs are different, because you are in direct competition with med students, and you have a chance to prove you truly are ready for med school, low undergrad gpa or not.

 

[RxnMan]

I was reading around and caught the note that ADCOMS say a high graduate gpa isn't really a big deal and doesn't offset a low undergrad GPA?

So wtf are you supposed to do to boost a lower undergrad gpa? Go back and take undergrad classes?

I find it soooo hard to believe that taking a master's level science class could look worse than taking 300 level micro classes...

ADCOMs do not look at grad GPA as favorably as ugrad. The reasons are two-fold.

One, the rigor and quality of grad programs (degrees) are variable, so one can not be easily compared to another (how do you compare a chemistry masters to a biochem to a history of medicine?).

Also, you are expected to get at least a B average (in most programs) in order to stay in. While this means academic excellence, it also means grad inflation from an ADCOM point of view. Everyone coming out with a MS (or MA, ME, MFA) has a high GPA - it's not a good discriminator.

So yes, you have to go back and do ugrad classes to increase ugrad GPA, if that is your application's weakness.

But DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT. Please, as anything posted at SDN, use our advice as a guide, but confirm it before you make a decision. Call up a local ADCOM, tell them your story, and ask them what they suggest.

 

[mommy2three]

i do not know what to tell you.
the advice i was given was completely different from what has been said above.

i have an undergrad cum gpa of 3.19 due to four semesters of failing classes in a completely different major. the place i took those classes is NOT feasible for me to go to right now or ever nor do i have any interest in completin a degree in radio -television. my science gpa is 3.78 so that i think makes a slight difference.
when i first applied and was not even interviewed anywhere i called every school i applied to and said what do i do. i have so many credit hours as an undergrad that taking any classes is not going to make a difference in my gpa. plus even if i retook the classes i failed it would not make a difference because they were so long ago that the class i took now would not replace my grad eit woudl simply add more credit hours to the growing number and probably not make much of a difference in my overall gpa. considering everything i was specifically told to pursue a masters program. they said the reasons for this were two fold. first grad gpa is calculated seperately from undergrad gpa so i would get to start over with a new slate so to speak. secondly if i could succeed at a grad program it woul prove to a med school adcom that i could succeed at a graduate level coursework and would actually increase my chances of getting into grad school.

 

[njbmd]

i do not know what to tell you.
the advice i was given was completely different from what has been said above.

i have an undergrad cum gpa of 3.19 due to four semesters of failing classes in a completely different major. the place i took those classes is NOT feasible for me to go to right now or ever nor do i have any interest in completin a degree in radio -television. my science gpa is 3.78 so that i think makes a slight difference.
when i first applied and was not even interviewed anywhere i called every school i applied to and said what do i do. i have so many credit hours as an undergrad that taking any classes is not going to make a difference in my gpa. plus even if i retook the classes i failed it would not make a difference because they were so long ago that the class i took now would not replace my grad eit woudl simply add more credit hours to the growing number and probably not make much of a difference in my overall gpa. considering everything i was specifically told to pursue a masters program. they said the reasons for this were two fold. first grad gpa is calculated seperately from undergrad gpa so i would get to start over with a new slate so to speak. secondly if i could succeed at a grad program it woul prove to a med school adcom that i could succeed at a graduate level coursework and would actually increase my chances of getting into grad school.

A Special Masters Program such as the type offered by Georgetown University will enhance your application to medical school in the sense that it does show that you are capable of handling medical school coursework provided you do very, very well in this program. The problem still remains that you are going to be "screened out" of some schools because of your undergraduate GPA. The other problem is that these Special Masters are very expensive and a significant "death blow" should you not perform well.

A Masters of Public Health, Masters of Business Administration or a Masters in any other discipline (science or not) is not going to be particularly helpful for your cause as these degrees will be looked upon as graduate study and will not enhance your undergraduate grade point average nor "wipe your slate clean". Furthermore, these degrees do NOT prove that you can handle a medical curriculum. Will one of these degrees enhance your application enough for you to gain admission to medical school? Depends on what else you have in your application and how well you perform on the MCAT but you will still face a significant uphill battle.

Special Masters versus Non-Special Masters are apples and oranges in terms of what can boost the competitiveness of your application. Again, in general, graduate study is not designed as pre-medical application enhancement.

 

[ana]

i do not know what to tell you.
the advice i was given was completely different from what has been said above.

i have an undergrad cum gpa of 3.19 due to four semesters of failing classes in a completely different major. the place i took those classes is NOT feasible for me to go to right now or ever nor do i have any interest in completin a degree in radio -television. my science gpa is 3.78 so that i think makes a slight difference.
when i first applied and was not even interviewed anywhere i called every school i applied to and said what do i do. i have so many credit hours as an undergrad that taking any classes is not going to make a difference in my gpa. plus even if i retook the classes i failed it would not make a difference because they were so long ago that the class i took now would not replace my grad eit woudl simply add more credit hours to the growing number and probably not make much of a difference in my overall gpa. considering everything i was specifically told to pursue a masters program. they said the reasons for this were two fold. first grad gpa is calculated seperately from undergrad gpa so i would get to start over with a new slate so to speak. secondly if i could succeed at a grad program it woul prove to a med school adcom that i could succeed at a graduate level coursework and would actually increase my chances of getting into grad school.

I think you were given the advice as above because:
-- your cumulative UGPA is already >3.0
-- your science GPA is quite respectable.
You really just need to get recent grades and good mcats to be in the running.

I think the people responding to the original post are assuming a different set of circumstances. Anyone who has a cum-UGPA less than 3.0 need to take enough classes to bring it up to at least that level, otherwise a computer will automatically eliminate them from the applicant pool. Since UGPA and Grad GPA are calcualted separately, graduate work will not help those individuals.

As the post above describes, there are some special master's programs that are known to be rigorous and competitive enough for premedical studies. In fact, some of these programs are designed specifically for the purposes of getting a candidate into medical school by exposing them to rigorous courses in a competitive environment; they have that reputation and are already known to medical school admission committees. However, most other graduate programs will have grade hyperinflation. You HAVE to get good grades in these programs, because every time you get a "B" in one of your courses, it will be interpreted as "C" to "F." Also, a gpa of 4.0 in this circumstance is not interpreted the same way as a 4.0 in undergraduate course work.

For your particular circumstance, a grad degree may make sense. However, anyone trying to rehabilitate a low gpa needs undergrad upper division courses.

Best wishes to you.

 

[mommy2three]

A Special Masters Program such as the type offered by Georgetown University will enhance your application to medical school in the sense that it does show that you are capable of handling medical school coursework provided you do very, very well in this program. The problem still remains that you are going to be "screened out" of some schools because of your undergraduate GPA. The other problem is that these Special Masters are very expensive and a significant "death blow" should you not perform well.

A Masters of Public Health, Masters of Business Administration or a Masters in any other discipline (science or not) is not going to be particularly helpful for your cause as these degrees will be looked upon as graduate study and will not enhance your undergraduate grade point average nor "wipe your slate clean". Furthermore, these degrees do NOT prove that you can handle a medical curriculum. Will one of these degrees enhance your application enough for you to gain admission to medical school? Depends on what else you have in your application and how well you perform on the MCAT but you will still face a significant uphill battle.

Special Masters versus Non-Special Masters are apples and oranges in terms of what can boost the competitiveness of your application. Again, in general, graduate study is not designed as pre-medical application enhancement.

i can testify to the whole smp death blow thing. that is what happened to me. i missed the gpa cutoff by one question..one lousy stinking question. but the difference is that i had to take an additional year to take additional grad coursework becuase my grad gpa was 2.88 and i was getting kicked out of the app cycle due to that. so while they are great things i think each individual applicant needs to figure out what would address their needs best. i know hindsight is 20/20 but honestly i wish i would have sucked it up from the get go and had done a reg masters program ( i was originally looking at one at northwestern) rather than decideto take my chances with the smp.

 

[ana]

i can testify to the whole smp death blow thing. that is what happened to me. i missed the gpa cutoff by one question..one lousy stinking question. but the difference is that i had to take an additional year to take additional grad coursework becuase my grad gpa was 2.88 and i was getting kicked out of the app cycle due to that. so while they are great things i think each individual applicant needs to figure out what would address their needs best. i know hindsight is 20/20 but honestly i wish i would have sucked it up from the get go and had done a reg masters program ( i was originally looking at one at northwestern) rather than decideto take my chances with the smp.

Hi, sorry I was not aware you did the SMP. Sorry about the death blow; I understand those programs are tough enough when you are a single person. It is more difficult when you have a family you love and need/want to spend time with. Also, some of these programs really over-hype themselves to people applying -- they don't tell you about the drop out/cut off rates.

Do you mind my asking some questions? Ignore this post if you don't feel like answering:
1. How many schools did you apply to?
2. MD, DO, or both?
3. What were your mcats? How many times and how recently taken?
4. Do you have a class you took recently where you got a very good grade and can get a letter of recommendation?

The reason I am asking is because your gpa should have been enough to at least get you interviews (if not outright acceptances). I don't think you actually needed a whole formal degree-objective program or even an SMP; just some recent classes to get current letters of recommendation and to show you still have what it takes.

I myself had similar issues. I had a lowish, but >3.0 gpa, but they had been taking several years prior to my application. I did wel on MCATs. I did a do-it-yourself postbacc program by taking upper division science courses for a non-degree objective at a state university. It was economical as well as effective.

 

[mommy2three]

Hi, sorry I was not aware you did the SMP. Sorry about the death blow; I understand those programs are tough enough when you are a single person. It is more difficult when you have a family you love and need/want to spend time with. Also, some of these programs really over-hype themselves to people applying -- they don't tell you about the drop out/cut off rates.

Do you mind my asking some questions? Ignore this post if you don't feel like answering:
1. How many schools did you apply to?
2. MD, DO, or both?
3. What were your mcats? How many times and how recently taken?
4. Do you have a class you took recently where you got a very good grade and can get a letter of recommendation?

The reason I am asking is because your gpa should have been enough to at least get you interviews (if not outright acceptances). I don't think you actually needed a whole formal degree-objective program or even an SMP; just some recent classes to get current letters of recommendation and to show you still have what it takes.

I myself had similar issues. I had a lowish, but >3.0 gpa, but they had been taking several years prior to my application. I did wel on MCATs. I did a do-it-yourself postbacc program by taking upper division science courses for a non-degree objective at a state university. It was economical as well as effective.

1. i applied to a total of 5 schools. i was not throwing my net very wide as i was trying to avoid the stigma associated with a second application. immediately after i knew i did not amke the cutoff for the smp i had called the schools i was most interested in as well as talked to the director of the smp program to figure out how it would look in my application. they all told me the same thing...it was going to hurt me. compared with a traditional grad school applicant my grad gpa was going to be lower..the fact that i had taken med school classes and passed them ALL did not matter it was the gpa that mattered. taking this into account the decision was made to only apply to schools i thought i stood a decent shot at getting in at, or at least getting an interview at (i have been told numerous times by people that if i can get an interview i should be in as i interview very well, can conduct an inteligable conversation and am very professional). but nada zip zilch zero in the interview department this year.

2. both md and do. ccom was my top choice. when i called them and asked what i could do to improve my chances they told me it wasmy grad gpa and it needed to be above 3.0 (it is now) and that i needed a hospital volunteer experience as my previous volunteer experience was not viewed as medically related enough (i was an on call advocate responding to hospitals in cases of domestic violence and sexual assault to act as a patient advocate)....that has also been corrected i am currently doing volunteer work with the local hospital.

3. april 2004 - 26R: 8p, 9v, 9b
august 2006 - 28P: 9p, 8v, 11b
plans to retake in august/sept

4. i have a class where the prof has offered to write me a lor that i just took and aced....and he is an instructor that does not give out many a's (5 per class or so) so it should be a good lor. i have a solid lor from my undergrad advisor, my two research profs and can probably get another one from my grad advisor. i shadowed a do last year and can get a good solid lor from him as well.

i have recently been accepted into the masters level human anotomical sciences program here at northern illinois....they have a trend of placing grads into professional programs (md, do, pa, optometry, etc) so i am hoping i can continue that trend

 

[MRI4ME]

1. i applied to a total of 5 schools. i was not throwing my net very wide as ...but nada zip zilch zero in the interview department this year.

2. both md and do. ccom was my top choice. ...i needed a hospital volunteer experience as my previous volunteer experience was not viewed as medically related enough (i was an on call advocate responding to hospitals in cases of domestic violence and sexual assault to act as a patient advocate)....that has also been corrected i am currently doing volunteer work with the local hospital.

3. april 2004 - 26R: 8p, 9v, 9b
august 2006 - 28P: 9p, 8v, 11b
plans to retake in august/sept

4. i have a class where the prof has offered to write me a lor that i just took and aced....and he is an instructor that does not give out many a's (5 per class or so) so it should be a good lor. i have a solid lor from my undergrad advisor, my two research profs and can probably get another one from my grad advisor. i shadowed a do last year and can get a good solid lor from him as well.

i have recently been accepted into the masters level human anotomical sciences program here at northern illinois....they have a trend of placing grads into professional programs (md, do, pa, optometry, etc) so i am hoping i can continue that trend

It looks like you are already doing all you can. try to improve your MCATs. I think that will help you tremendously.

 

[Blondnuttyboy]

Hey - well my gpa is not <3.0...I have a 3.5 overall and a 3.4 science gpa. Do people still think I should pursue a grad program or the do-it-yourself post bacc?

Im retaking the MCAT and will wind up with 30+ (im confident

 

[RxnMan]

As far as the MCAT/GPA being 30/3.5 or better, then it probably won't help you to do classes - you're already at about the average matriculant GPA. Focus on the MCAT, make sure you get 30+, and then maybe think about doing something that makes you stand out - research, volunteering, etc.

You do have clinical experience, right?

 

[ana]

As far as the MCAT/GPA being 30/3.5 or better, then it probably won't help you to do classes - you're already at about the average matriculant GPA. Focus on the MCAT, make sure you get 30+, and then maybe think about doing something that makes you stand out - research, volunteering, etc.

You do have clinical experience, right?

I agree with above. Your gpa's are in the ballpark. Better MCATs, health related volunteer work, research, etc are a must. By the way, do you have good LORs?

 

[Critical Mass]

My grad grades helped me in no way, shape, or form. Grad school didn't have any impact on MCAT material, nor did they teach anything that helped me understand medicine. Since grad school grades are naturally inflated, adcoms can't really use them much.

I consider SMP's to be in a separate category BTW.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

1. i applied to a total of 5 schools. i was not throwing my net very wide as i was trying to avoid the stigma associated with a second application. immediately after i knew i did not amke the cutoff for the smp i had called the schools i was most interested in as well as talked to the director of the smp program to figure out how it would look in my application. they all told me the same thing...it was going to hurt me. compared with a traditional grad school applicant my grad gpa was going to be lower..the fact that i had taken med school classes and passed them ALL did not matter it was the gpa that mattered. taking this into account the decision was made to only apply to schools i thought i stood a decent shot at getting in at, or at least getting an interview at (i have been told numerous times by people that if i can get an interview i should be in as i interview very well, can conduct an inteligable conversation and am very professional). but nada zip zilch zero in the interview department this year.

2. both md and do. ccom was my top choice. when i called them and asked what i could do to improve my chances they told me it wasmy grad gpa and it needed to be above 3.0 (it is now) and that i needed a hospital volunteer experience as my previous volunteer experience was not viewed as medically related enough (i was an on call advocate responding to hospitals in cases of domestic violence and sexual assault to act as a patient advocate)....that has also been corrected i am currently doing volunteer work with the local hospital.

3. april 2004 - 26R: 8p, 9v, 9b
august 2006 - 28P: 9p, 8v, 11b
plans to retake in august/sept

4. i have a class where the prof has offered to write me a lor that i just took and aced....and he is an instructor that does not give out many a's (5 per class or so) so it should be a good lor. i have a solid lor from my undergrad advisor, my two research profs and can probably get another one from my grad advisor. i shadowed a do last year and can get a good solid lor from him as well.

i have recently been accepted into the masters level human anotomical sciences program here at northern illinois....they have a trend of placing grads into professional programs (md, do, pa, optometry, etc) so i am hoping i can continue that trend

Hey mommy2three,
Didn't you also have some annoying transcript issues that delayed your application. With osteopathic schools like CCOM, I think an early application is huge. I don't know about the other schools you're applying to, but I suspect your CCOM odds with be good this year.

 

[mommy2three]

Hey mommy2three,
Didn't you also have some annoying transcript issues that delayed your application. With osteopathic schools like CCOM, I think an early application is huge. I don't know about the other schools you're applying to, but I suspect your CCOM odds with be good this year.

yep i did for my osteo app...there was another one of me...well obviously it was not me but another person with my name and somehow our transcripts got mixed up. hopefully that will not happen again this year.....but i have to admit that it was rather odd knowing that there was someone out there with my name. but i guess technically she does not have my name since i had to marry to get this name and i am assuming it was her maiden name

 

[Blondnuttyboy]

I agree with above. Your gpa's are in the ballpark. Better MCATs, health related volunteer work, research, etc are a must. By the way, do you have good LORs?

Yeah I'm assuming my LORs were good (they're now a year old but w/e). I knew my writers very personally - so they should be solid.

I have a lot of clinical exp..esp. internationally (spent 1 summer in china, 1 in mexico, and 1 in kenya - all health related)

I've also researched for 3 years - finished a huge thesis finally : )

I think I was just really worried because I have B's in every pre-req (gen chems, o chems, physics)..

I just thought taking more classes and getting more A's would show an upward trend and that I'm ready for the rigors of med school.

 

[mommy2three]

Yeah I'm assuming my LORs were good (they're now a year old but w/e). I knew my writers very personally - so they should be solid.

I have a lot of clinical exp..esp. internationally (spent 1 summer in china, 1 in mexico, and 1 in kenya - all health related)

I've also researched for 3 years - finished a huge thesis finally : )

I think I was just really worried because I have B's in every pre-req (gen chems, o chems, physics)..

I just thought taking more classes and getting more A's would show an upward trend and that I'm ready for the rigors of med school.

if you go by what i was told (again not that this is correct just what i was told by one adcom member) a good perfromance in graduate coursework shows that you could handle med school which essentially is grad coursework.
now this may or may not be true for all schools, but it was for the one i first spoke to about this.

 

[PHD_2007]

I applied to medical school in 2001 and reapplied last summer. I had a 3.21 undergrad GPA (science 3.1). I just finished my PhD in Biomedical Science (Developmental Cardiology) with a GPA of 3.96. I was told by several medical school admissions directors that my grad GPA helped me a great deal. I also published three papers (2 first author, 1 second author) in grad school and I served on several graduate school committees. I really think you should concentrate on contacting the admissions offices at a few of the medical schools you'd like to attend. I called the admissions offices and visited the medical schools that I wanted to attend and I believe it really helped me out. Also, don't get hung up on the numbers..... I know its hard!!! But, try to engage in unique experiences. I know I want to practice academic medicine so I conducted research, taught at a local community college, and volunteered at a local clinic simultaneously. I say all that to say this.... Call, get your name out there, and really engage in unique experiences (hopefully things that you like to do) that will show your desire to become a physician. Just wanted to share my story with you to give you inspiration and hope!!!! I hope everything works out for you!!!!!