So I'm donating to this guy...

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DermViser said:
Started medical school officially in May? Ok. Even then, you still know nothing.
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That's why he's in Allo and not in the Clinical or Resident forums. Here, he's allowed to talk without being kicked. 🙂
 
Anastomoses said:
That's why he's in Allo and not in the Clinical or Resident forums. Here, he's allowed to talk without being kicked. 🙂
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There are many residents/attendings that frequent Allo as well as the resident forums. They're not mutually exclusive.

Ron Johnson went thru the reasons of why Obamacare is bad. It wasn't just his own family example, which you tried to reduce it to, without listening to the rest of it. Grow up.
 
DermViser said:
There are many residents/attendings that frequent Allo as well as the resident forums. They're not mutually exclusive.

Ron Johnson went thru the reasons of why Obamacare is bad. It wasn't just his own family example, which you tried to reduce it to, without listening to the rest of it. Grow up.
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You grow up. I listened to every bit of it, even when the white haired guy said "God bless you". He just got flustered at the end and kept yelling "you called me racist" from my recollection. I could be out of touch but without evidence of racism, that word just doesn't mean anything anymore. He said some people aren't getting their old insurance and he said young people might have to pay for something they don't want. He should have made these points with more color and more deft. He is not a gifted speaker.

And as an aside: I don't like you.
 
maxxor said:
Au contraire, it was thought out perfectly. It's not about improving outcomes for patients. It's about cutting provider reimbursement without being obvious.

These morbidly obese diabetics with hypertension and heart failure and CKDIII want roll up to their PCP's office in their rascal scooter and they seem to think that a bunch of magic pills can reverse a lifetime of terrible choices. And if we don't order whatever medication they want or whatever expensive imaging test that Dr. Google says they "need," it somehow affects our pay?
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That's where the cost savings of the bill come in. Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, one of the architects of the bill, has directly stated in his articles and NY Times column and in his speaker talks (which you can watch on Youtube) that he believes that bills from providers and hospitals are too high. He does not mince words on this belief.

He has even gone so far as to say this: http://www.newrepublic.com/article/...l-book-excerpt-end-health-insurance-companies
 
Anastomoses said:
You grow up. I listened to every bit of it, even when the white haired guy said "God bless you". He just got flustered at the end and kept yelling "you called me racist" from my recollection. I could be out of touch but without evidence of racism, that word just doesn't mean anything anymore. He said some people aren't getting their old insurance and he said young people might have to pay for something they don't want. He should have made these points with more color and more deft. He is not a gifted speaker.

And as an aside: I don't like you.
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You may have heard it, but you didn't actually listen or at least not all the way thru. If you think all he was doing "was yelling 'you called me racist' from my recollection", then your recollection is bad. You didn't listen to the words around the phrase, which you misquoted, "God help you" (not God bless you - it's not like he sneezed).

Ron Johnson didn't get "flustered" at all. He was quite clear with several reasons about why he doesn't like the bill. Whether you choose to believe those reasons or think they are not good reasons, is not my problem. Being accused of being against Obamacare and it's implementation bc the President is the "wrong color" is absolutely egregious. Labeling someone as "racist" carries weight in ANY field. It can destroy people's careers. It's not just blown off. All the more reason if you're going to throw the accusation of racism, you better be darn sure you have evidence of it, rather than just using it as a grenade against others bc they disagree with you.

There's a reason why NO Democrat, even including the Senate majority leader (who is prone to his own hyperbole), has rushed to defend him, mainly bc they know it's BS. http://www.politico.com/story/2014/05/jay-ockefeller-barack-obama-race-remark-107026.html

As far as your aside to me - grow up. You're better than that.
 
DermViser said:
You may have heard it, but you didn't actually listen or at least not all the way thru. If you think all he was doing "was yelling 'you called me racist' from my recollection", then your recollection is bad. You didn't listen to the words around the phrase, which you misquoted, "God help you" (not God bless you - it's not like he sneezed).

Ron Johnson didn't get "flustered" at all. He was quite clear with several reasons about why he doesn't like the bill. Whether you choose to believe those reasons or think they are not good reasons, is not my problem. Being accused of being against Obamacare and it's implementation bc the President is the "wrong color" is absolutely egregious. Labeling someone as "racist" carries weight in ANY field. It can destroy people's careers. It's not just blown off. All the more reason if you're going to throw the accusation of racism, you better be darn sure you have evidence of it, rather than just using it as a grenade against others bc they disagree with you.

There's a reason why NO Democrat, even including the Senate majority leader (who is prone to his own hyperbole), has rushed to defend him, mainly bc they know it's BS. http://www.politico.com/story/2014/05/jay-ockefeller-barack-obama-race-remark-107026.html

As far as your aside to me - grow up. You're better than that.
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1. the link of racism and not liking the bill did not even occur to me as being associated with Johnson - but I leave room for the fact that I'm more careful with associations than the average person so maybe it was a nasty attempt at painting him racist. Okay. Even so, one comment would do in clearing that right up.

2. Unless I'm a complete idiot, I didn't really hear any valid "reasons". I am not going to rewatch the video because I want you to have an accurate assessment of what someone "heard" - not that it is necessarily what everyone will hear when they watch but that it's what one average person heard. I heard a story about his daughter, then I heard about emails 150:1 being against the Obama plan. I heard him say something about young people who don't need certain things will pay for them (that caught my attention + curiosity!) and then I just remember "how dare you call me racist~!"

3. I'm not better than disliking you. I'm a human. We dislike certain people.
 
Anastomoses said:
1. the link of racism and not liking the bill did not even occur to me as being associated with Johnson - but I leave room for the fact that I'm more careful with associations than the average person so maybe it was a nasty attempt at painting him racist. Okay. Even so, one comment would do in clearing that right up.

2. Unless I'm a complete idiot, I didn't really hear any valid "reasons". I am not going to rewatch the video because I want you to have an accurate assessment of what someone "heard" - not that it is necessarily what everyone will hear when they watch but that it's what one average person heard. I heard a story about his daughter, then I heard about emails 150:1 being against the Obama plan. I heard him say something about young people who don't need certain things will pay for them (that caught my attention + curiosity!) and then I just remember "how dare you call me racist~!"

3. I'm not better than disliking you. I'm a human. We dislike certain people.
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I only watched it once (a few days ago) and the part that stood out to me was his comment (iirc) about a loss of freedom associated with Obamacare. As both a patient and future physician, I'm hesitant about handing over any more autonomy.
 
DermViser said:
That's where the cost savings of the bill come in. Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, one of the architects of the bill, has directly stated in his articles and NY Times column and in his speaker talks (which you can watch on Youtube) that he believes that bills from providers and hospitals are too high. He does not mince words on this belief.

He has even gone so far as to say this: http://www.newrepublic.com/article/...l-book-excerpt-end-health-insurance-companies
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I've gone to a grand rounds talk by him. He gleefully informed the audience that everyone was getting cut, and that it was a good thing.

You don't have to convince me that he is a snake.
 
maxxor said:
I've gone to a grand rounds talk by him. He gleefully informed the audience that everyone was getting cut, and that it was a good thing.

You don't have to convince me that he is a snake.
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Can't believe he would actually say this directly to physicians in the audience, but I really shouldn't be surprised either. He demonstrates a lot of hubris when it comes to believing he is correct on interviews, not to mention his inability to hide his true feelings (if you want your choice of doctor then you can pay more!): http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/06/opinion/in-health-care-choice-is-overrated.html. He can't take any criticism, whatsoever, about his law. It's always someone else's fault. The reason he doesn't care about providers getting cut is bc he, himself, doesn't actually practice clinical medicine.
 
Anastomoses said:
Snake? He's more of a dolt. Didn't you see the video with O'Reilly? The guy is an ass.
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Yes, a "dolt" that was one of the architects of this law. Now that it has passed, he can easily tell what he really feels which he has through tv and written columns: 1) "You don't need a doctor for all of your healthcare", 2) "Healthchoice is overrated", 3) "If you want your choice of doctor, you can pay for it", etc.

For him, physicians (esp. young doctors who he says supports Obamacare vs. older physicians)are the foot soldiers in the implementation of his law. When things go awry, he turns on those who helped him previously (i.e. skyrocketing premiums -- turning on health insurance companies, for example, in one interview). In another place he'll say that healthcare premiums are only responding to hospitals and providers exorbitant prices, and health insurance companies are to blame.
 
It's a bit disingenuous for Johnson to talk about how great the health care system was when his daughter needed care. Of course he was able to access those doctors; when you have the resources, that kind of care is available to you/your family. For those who don't, that level of care is so much harder to get. I've resigned myself to the fact that there are always going to be people who fall through the cracks. It's not right, but it's how it is.

I think I would have had to whack Rockefeller upside the head with my purse--and it's a big one--if he'd talked to me in that tone. "You've lost your temper..." Condescending jerk. Calling someone a racist most often is like invoking Godwin's Law; all rational discussion screeches to a halt.

God help both of them.


maxxor said:
Au contraire, it was thought out perfectly. It's not about improving outcomes for patients. It's about cutting provider reimbursement without being obvious.

These morbidly obese diabetics with hypertension and heart failure and CKDIII want roll up to their PCP's office in their rascal scooter and they seem to think that a bunch of magic pills can reverse a lifetime of terrible choices. And if we don't order whatever medication they want or whatever expensive imaging test that Dr. Google says they "need," it somehow affects our pay?
Click to expand...


"But Dr. Oz said..."
 
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maxxor said:
Au contraire, it was thought out perfectly. It's not about improving outcomes for patients. It's about cutting provider reimbursement without being obvious.

These morbidly obese diabetics with hypertension and heart failure and CKDIII want roll up to their PCP's office in their rascal scooter and they seem to think that a bunch of magic pills can reverse a lifetime of terrible choices. And if we don't order whatever medication they want or whatever expensive imaging test that Dr. Google says they "need," it somehow affects our pay?
Click to expand...

Amen. We're seriously living in Orwellian times where the patriot act is not even close to being patriotic and was rather an attempt to legitimize the surveillance of the population while the affordable care act is not affordable and only cares for the insurance companies.

"This saves a lot of money. Insurance companies can negotiate with in-network physicians and hospitals to accept lower payments in exchange for more patients."
Mr. Emanuel is incredibly out of touch and his opinion was a waste of time to read. "Accept lower payments in exchange for more patients." That is really going to motivate the overburdened doctors and nurses who actually take care of people. "We need transparency and a way of ranking networks". Why are there networks or "safety valves" required in the first place? He keeps talking about patient choice but it doesn't matter if you call it gold vs platinum. A choice between a turd and a pile of dung is not much of a choice at all, especially when you are paying incredible amounts out of pocket over what you're paying for the actual plan. What's the point of being covered by insurance when insurance barely covers anything?
 
Psai said:
Amen. We're seriously living in Orwellian times where the patriot act is not even close to being patriotic and was rather an attempt to legitimize the surveillance of the population while the affordable care act is not affordable and only cares for the insurance companies.

"This saves a lot of money. Insurance companies can negotiate with in-network physicians and hospitals to accept lower payments in exchange for more patients."
Mr. Emanuel is incredibly out of touch and his opinion was a waste of time to read. "Accept lower payments in exchange for more patients." That is really going to motivate the overburdened doctors and nurses who actually take care of people. "We need transparency and a way of ranking networks". Why are there networks or "safety valves" required in the first place? He keeps talking about patient choice but it doesn't matter if you call it gold vs platinum. A choice between a turd and a pile of dung is not much of a choice at all, especially when you are paying incredible amounts out of pocket over what you're paying for the actual plan. What's the point of being covered by insurance when insurance barely covers anything?
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For a guy who concurrently did his MD and his PhD at Harvard, he sure is clueless. Wonder what happened to him.
 
CherryRedDracul said:
For a guy who concurrently did his MD and his PhD at Harvard, he sure is clueless. Wonder what happened to him.
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Simple. He doesn't practice clinical medicine at all. Probably doesn't even remember what it's like. After all, rounding the cable news circuit and being a Vice Provost can be very tiring.
 
I'm sorry, who is purported to have completed an MD and PhD at Havahd?
 
O Grady said:
I only watched it once (a few days ago) and the part that stood out to me was his comment (iirc) about a loss of freedom associated with Obamacare. As both a patient and future physician, I'm hesitant about handing over any more autonomy.
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I admit that "loss of freedom" (while having less than zero impact on me) does seem to hit the buttons of a lot of Republicans and maybe the average American. I'm not sure. If it caught your attention, there must be something to the buzzword/phrase.

CherryRedDracul said:
For a guy who concurrently did his MD and his PhD at Harvard, he sure is clueless. Wonder what happened to him.
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Hehehe. Come join me at Harvard this weekend, I'll introduce you to a buttload of self-serving out-of-touch dweebs.
 
Anastomoses said:
I admit that "loss of freedom" (while having less than zero impact on me) does seem to hit the buttons of a lot of Republicans and maybe the average American. I'm not sure. If it caught your attention, there must be something to the buzzword/phrase.
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Yes, loss of freedom as to the hospitals you can go to on your plan - even narrower networks.
 
I went to any Ivy college and most of the people I have met through the years that attended Harvard seem to become unenthused and curt with me when they learn what my Alma mater is. I've met one guys from Harvard who isn't half bad, but socially leaves much to be desired. In my experience (see: anecdotal) most Harvard COLLEGE alum seem to perpetuate the Ivy League stereotype. I'm sure the professional colleges of the great citadel of learning more commonly referred to as Harvard see a better lot of students though.
 
Classic Rockefeller. Just goes to show you how dumb the voters of my home state are to have kept this fool in office for so long. He has done more to single handedly destroy jobs (intentionally) in the state that he represents throughout his career than any other individual. Now he's getting pwned in a discussion on Obamacare. Can't wait for him to get out of office.
 
DermViser said:
So the back and forth was between a politician (he's retiring at the end of this year) who said that those who were against the ACA were....you guessed it - racist.


However, it was the opposition's response that caught my eye, where he defends the sacrifice of doctors, based on his own personal experience with his daughter 0:58 - 1:36.
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So stupid! Is that the reason why america has a black president now? Is it in order to make people accept the worst and shut up if they don't want to be accused of racism? So stupid! that first video shows that a person can graduate from university and be extremely stupid. I personaly found a good book to study, the quran. It teaches things like the importance of thinking, using one's brain and not taking the first idea that comes as being the truth, being honest, helping people,...For the rest, I just read, keep myself informed and I don't expect too much from university or from those who build their self confident on the fact that they have this or that diploma. Seriously, what is happening in the medical field is not unique, it is just a part of the phenomenon. Here is an exemple
 
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