So my degree is worthless?

[Epilepsy365]

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So do residency in the Midwest then move to the coasts. Work somewhere literally 20 minutes outside of a more 'hip hop' area with no difference. Who cares? Prestige is the absolute dumbest thing you can pursue in life.

LOL try ~1.5h for specialties with a somewhat tight job market like Anesthesia. I don't have a problem with that reality bc I hate those hip and hop areas. But, it's really disingenuous to downplay the DO hate out there, especially with the DO leadership watering down the degree and turning the field in a version that's very resembling of the Caribbean model.

The discrimination doesn't exist for fields with major shortages.

 

[libertyyne]

Guys, whatever you say-- Noorda College of Osteopathic Medicine is looking LITT. Opening from next year most likely. British buildings in America, haha. BTW, I wonder what Buck Parker the St. Mathhew's Caribbean Grad who thinks he is better respected than the DOs cuz he has an SMU MD (LOL) would think of this fancy medical school opening on one of the few states that he is permitted to work in the United States (Utah):
View attachment 295048

Did you just equate the quality of a school by the quality of its buildings? Thats an interesting take considering some Touro schools are in strip malls or abandoned shipyards.

and sgu looks better than most ivy league places

 

[deleted978973]

LOL try ~1.5h. I don't have a problem with that reality bc I hate those hip and hop areas. But, it's really disingenuous to downplay the DO hate out there, especially with the DO leadership watering down the degree and turning the field in a version that's very resembling of the Caribbean model.

Bro... Admins can replace you in a heartbeat in super popular places like SF or NYC regardless of your degree. Whether it's MD or DO doesn't matter.

 

[deleted898021]

There are certain Anesthesia groups in Seattle, San Diego, and Dallas that literally said MDs ONLY. This information came from my DO Anesthesia preceptor a year ago.

But, if you do go to a DO school, chances are that you're somewhat geographic flexible in term of working ~ 2h drive away from a metropolitan area. But, for those DO kids that have to work in places like SF, NYC, Seattle, or San Diego, you better be open towards working in less hip hop areas.

Literally never heard of that, like who wants to work at those groups anyway? I am sure you can find other anesthesia groups in those cities that will work with DO's.

Find Your DO - Find a DO | Doctors of Osteopathic Medicine

doctorsthatdo.osteopathic.org

Theres DO anesthesiologists working in the bay area and some in really nice locations FYI, no one is 1.5 hours out of San Fran.

 

[Epilepsy365]

Literally never heard of that, like who wants to work at those groups anyway? I am sure you can find other anesthesia groups in those cities that will work with DO's.

Stupid barriers get put up in a tight job market. I was interested in Anesthesia a year ago, and gave it heavy consideration. Did extensive research on the job market through gasworks, and found these little gems.

Those information plus my rotating experience in which CRNAs are doing 50% of the cases at my hospital independently cause me to dump that field into the trash.

 

[Epilepsy365]

Literally never heard of that, like who wants to work at those groups anyway? I am sure you can find other anesthesia groups in those cities that will work with DO's.

Find Your DO - Find a DO | Doctors of Osteopathic Medicine

doctorsthatdo.osteopathic.org

Theres DO anesthesiologists working in the bay area and some in really nice locations FYI, no one is 1.5 hours out of San Fran.

You can point an exception to every rule, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

My preceptor was a DO Anesthesia preceptor in SF/San Diego, and he's the only DO in that group. They never hired a DO Anesthesiologist before him, and only gave him consideration when the previous MD hirings went wrong.

Again, these are the stuff that exist that you won't be aware of at our current level of training until you're a resident and start asking these Qs.

 

[deleted898021]

You can point an exception to every rule, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

My preceptor was a DO Anesthesia preceptor in SF/San Diego, and he's the only DO in that group. They never hired a DO Anesthesiologist before him, and only gave him consideration when the previous MD hirings went wrong.

Again, these are the stuff that exist that you won't be aware of at our current level of training until you're a resident and start asking these Qs.

Theres 6 DO's that are listed there so hardly an exception, I don't think the bias is as rampant as your making it out to be

 

[Ho0v-man]

Any more evidence? That's just an anecdote. I've asked every doc I've met about MD vs DO and all have said they don't even think about it, it's a non-issue. So at worst maybe I need to score 5 points higher on step 1. Who cares?

If only it were that easy. Epilepsy365 is spittin pure truth at y’all right now. I did pretty well on boards and I’ll be interviewing at spots with USMDs who scored 15-20 points lower than me. If the letters after my name were different, my current reaches would be my safeties. That’s just reality.

Bury your heads in the sand if you want. But don’t act like no one ever warned you.

 

[deleted898021]

If only it were that easy. Epilepsy365 is spittin pure truth at y’all right now. I did pretty well on boards and I’ll be interviewing at spots with USMDs who scored 15-20 points lower than me. If the letters after my name were different, my current reaches would be my safeties. That’s just reality.

Bury your heads in the sand if you want. But don’t act like no one ever warned you.

just out of curiosity how do you guys know what the MD's scored, is that something people ask/talk about on interviews LOL? Like y'all just casually ask people what their step 1 score was? If not, how can you be so sure? or is that just heresay? or can you just look at their face and know "oh they def scored like 10-15 points below me" LOL

 

[popopopop]

just out of curiosity how do you guys know what the MD's scored, is that something people ask/talk about on interviews LOL? Like y'all just casually ask people what their step 1 score was? If not, how can you be so sure? or is that just heresay? or can you just look at their face and know "oh they def scored like 10-15 points below me" LOL

Freida and residentcyexplorer has step and comlex ranges.

 

[findoc]

just out of curiosity how do you guys know what the MD's scored, is that something people ask/talk about on interviews LOL? Like y'all just casually ask people what their step 1 score was? If not, how can you be so sure? or is that just heresay? or can you just look at their face and know "oh they def scored like 10-15 points below me" LOL

Yes, that's what I was wondering!

Again, this is all rumor, hearsay, and anecdotes. Has there been a study looking at board scores and residency placement between MDs and DOs? I'm honestly open to believing anything, but I think the only people who care about MD/DO are the DO students worried about getting a placement or MD student who want to make themselves feel better.

 

[D4C]

Stupid barriers get put up in a tight job market. I was interested in Anesthesia a year ago, and gave it heavy consideration. Did extensive research on the job market through gasworks, and found these little gems.

Those information plus my rotating experience in which CRNAs are doing 50% of the cases at my hospital independently cause me to dump that field into the trash.

LOL try ~1.5h for specialties with a somewhat tight job market like Anesthesia. I don't have a problem with that reality bc I hate those hip and hop areas. But, it's really disingenuous to downplay the DO hate out there, especially with the DO leadership watering down the degree and turning the field in a version that's very resembling of the Caribbean model.

The discrimination doesn't exist for fields with major shortages.

You can point an exception to every rule, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

My preceptor was a DO Anesthesia preceptor in SF/San Diego, and he's the only DO in that group. They never hired a DO Anesthesiologist before him, and only gave him consideration when the previous MD hirings went wrong.

Again, these are the stuff that exist that you won't be aware of at our current level of training until you're a resident and start asking these Qs.

You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Epilepsy365]

just out of curiosity how do you guys know what the MD's scored, is that something people ask/talk about on interviews LOL? Like y'all just casually ask people what their step 1 score was? If not, how can you be so sure? or is that just heresay? or can you just look at their face and know "oh they def scored like 10-15 points below me" LOL

People on the interview trail share their ranges (average, below average, 220s, 230s, above average), their research profiles (1st author, poster, etc...), and the places they are going to interview at. No, you don't go to every interview and ask people their stats. But, as colleagues on the interview trail, we tend to share our interviewing exp and thoughts for certain institutions. From then, it flows very naturally into general stats. Otherwise, there are certain programs where your DO seniors get IIs to at with 250s/250s and then your MD colleagues on the interview trail ("Oh my Steps were just average with a poster for my only research") gets IIs to these same institutions while you, as a DO with similar stats, don't get the IIs.

That's how you know that your DO initial is screwing you over.

 

[Epilepsy365]

Freida and residentcyexplorer has step and comlex ranges.

Freida is trash. You find out by getting info your MD colleagues on the interview trail by finding out their ranges and the places that they're going to interview at.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

The funniest thing is when I was doing an away at a university program and talking with 4th years MDs at their home program. They were shocked that anyone had to apply to more than 25 places to get 10+ interviews. I told them I was applying 60 and they were like ‘that’s way too much.’ Ironically I now agree cause I got nothing outside of my immediate geographic area. But these guys where applying 25 and getting 20 interviews. As a DO you get nowhere near that yield outside FM

 

[Ho0v-man]

just out of curiosity how do you guys know what the MD's scored, is that something people ask/talk about on interviews LOL? Like y'all just casually ask people what their step 1 score was? If not, how can you be so sure? or is that just heresay? or can you just look at their face and know "oh they def scored like 10-15 points below me" LOL

1)The average step scores are online either on the schools website or other sources depending on the field.

2). Do you not have friends at MD schools? You just...ya know... talk to them. This is pretty easy to figure out. The post above regarding interview yield is very true.

For certain fields/programs, an MD with a 230 will just be more desirable than a DO with a 250.

 

[sab3156]

Bro... Admins can replace you in a heartbeat in super popular places like SF or NYC regardless of your degree. Whether it's MD or DO doesn't matter.

You have zero idea about what you are talking about right now, so it is best if you (a pre-med) stopped arguing. @Epilepsy365 is 100% correct. Anyone arguing with him is plain ignorant of the facts and has no actual knowledge about anything relevant to this topic.

 

[deleted978973]

You have zero idea about what you are talking about right now, so it is best if you (a pre-med) stopped arguing. @Epilepsy365 is 100% correct. Anyone arguing with him is plain ignorant of the facts and has no actual knowledge about anything relevant to this topic.

The topic of this thread has been repeated ad nauseam x1000 already

 

[deleted898021]

1)The average step scores are online either on the schools website or other sources depending on the field.

2). Do you not have friends at MD schools? You just...ya know... talk to them. This is pretty easy to figure out. The post above regarding interview yield is very true.

For certain fields/programs, an MD with a 230 will just be more desirable than a DO with a 250.

This is soo silly, like really man come on, a DO with a 250 will be fine for most specialties if they apply broadly and have the app(MD’s need the app too btw), there’s also former AOA programs that are biased towards DO’s and many of these programs are excellent places to train and there are MD’s that don’t match into their desired specialty and would kill for a spot at one of those programs, overall this just silly SDN talk that has little practical significance in the real world, as BorntobeDO said, many DO’s can prbly apply to way less programs like MD’s but it’s just the fear of being discriminated against why they apply to 60+ prorgams and in hindsight they would have been fine with apply to 30-40, yes some MD places will take an MD with lower scores but that doesn’t mean that you won’t match

 

[deleted898021]

You have zero idea about what you are talking about right now, so it is best if you (a pre-med) stopped arguing. @Epilepsy365 is 100% correct. Anyone arguing with him is plain ignorant of the facts and has no actual knowledge about anything relevant to this topic.

He’s actually right, him being premed doesn’t mean that he can’t comment. My physican buddies have told me the exact same thing, in competitive locations you can be replaced very quickly and it has absolutely nothing do with your degree.

 

[Epilepsy365]

This is soo silly, like really man come on, a DO with a 250 will be fine for most specialties if they apply broadly and have the app(MD’s need the app too btw), there’s also former AOA programs that are biased towards DO’s and many of these programs are excellent places to train and there are MD’s that don’t match into their desired specialty and would kill for a spot at one of those programs, overall this just silly SDN talk that has little practical significance in the real world, as BorntobeDO said, many DO’s can prbly apply to way less programs like MD’s but it’s just the fear of being discriminated against why they apply to 60+ prorgams and in hindsight they would have been fine with apply to 30-40, yes some MD places will take an MD with lower scores but that doesn’t mean that you won’t match

You’re not getting it.

If BorntobeDO is a MD, he would get IIs to places not in his geographic range or away auditions.

That’s where the bias against DOs from. When you get to this level, you’re going to be angry that your lower stats MDs aren’t geographically bounded with their average stats while your application is in the trash with the letter DO if you’re not from the area regardless of your stats unless you score 20-30 pts more than the program average.

 

[Dr.Bruh]

There are certain Anesthesia groups in Seattle, San Diego, and Dallas that literally said MDs ONLY. This information came from my DO Anesthesia preceptor a year ago.

But, if you do go to a DO school, chances are that you're somewhat geographic flexible in term of working ~ 2h drive away from a metropolitan area. But, for those DO kids that have to work in places like SF, NYC, Seattle, or San Diego, you better be open towards working in less hip hop areas.

This was probably then saying on doc that were ACGME trained. I worked with DO ER docs that said some places were harder to work if you were AOA trained but now with the merger everyone will be acgme trained. If they are actually discrimination on DO degree isn’t that illegal?

 

[Epilepsy365]

This was probably then saying on doc that were ACGME trained. I worked with DO ER docs that said some places were harder to work if you were AOA trained but now with the merger everyone will be acgme trained. If they are actually discrimination on DO degree isn’t that illegal?

It’s not about discrimination. Each physician group has a certain culture. For a niche Pain or Anesthesia group that targets high income clients or pts with well paying insurance plans, it can be MDs only.

 

[deleted898021]

It’s not about discrimination. Each physician group has a certain culture. For a niche Pain or Anesthesia group that targets high income clients or pts with well paying insurance plans, it can be MDs only.

Then why am I seeing DO anesthesiologists listed on the doctors that DO site in major cities in affluent areas, many of them are working with MD groups?

 

[Ho0v-man]

This is soo silly, like really man come on, a DO with a 250 will be fine for most specialties if they apply broadly and have the app(MD’s need the app too btw), there’s also former AOA programs that are biased towards DO’s and many of these programs are excellent places to train and there are MD’s that don’t match into their desired specialty and would kill for a spot at one of those programs, overall this just silly SDN talk that has little practical significance in the real world, as BorntobeDO said, many DO’s can prbly apply to way less programs like MD’s but it’s just the fear of being discriminated against why they apply to 60+ prorgams and in hindsight they would have been fine with apply to 30-40, yes some MD places will take an MD with lower scores but that doesn’t mean that you won’t match

I’m not saying a DO with a 250 won’t match. I’m saying a DO with a top 20 app in some fields will get a mid tier program an average USMD will waltz into.

For instance, a 250+ with >10 pubs will plateau at a place like Cleveland Clinic in IM. Which is great and all, but a USMD with that same app might decline the interview there or go there as a safety.

It’s not all doom and gloom, but it’s not as minor as some have made it out to be in this thread have made it out to be. Basically, the DO letters knock you down a tier of competitiveness all else being equal. It’s not just the difference of 5 points on step 1.

 

[Epilepsy365]

Then why am I seeing DO anesthesiologists listed on the doctors that DO site in major cities in affluent areas, many of them are working with MD groups?

Just go to gasworks and look at some of the job postings in desirable cities

I promise you that there are places that say MDs Only

Also, the work environment desirability can vary among groups as well.

 

[deleted898021]

Just go to gasworks and look at some of the job postings in desirable cities

I promise you that there are places that say MDs Only

Also, the work environment desirability can vary among groups as well.

You sure that’s just not a semantics thing? Like no CRNA etc, Did you personally call and ask if they won’t consider a friggin board certified DO anesthesiologist who trained at an acgme program?

 

[Epilepsy365]

You sure that’s just not a semantics thing? Like no CRNA etc, Did you personally call and ask if they won’t consider a friggin board certified DO anesthesiologist who trained at an acgme program?

They don’t give a crap. It’s more of an image for their clients than anything, same with certain ACGME Rads or Opthal programs saying NO DO regardless of application strength.

And no I am not going to call these places considering that I’m not going into Anesthesia. Stop being ridiculous.

 

[deleted898021]

They don’t give a crap. It’s more of an image for their clients than anything, same with certain ACGME Rads or Opthal programs saying NO DO regardless of application strength.

And no I am not going to call these places considering that I’m not going into Anesthesia. Stop being ridiculous.

That’s exactly my point, how would you know for sure that they don’t care, if you didn’t call and ask every single job listing? Your going off one anecdote of your DO preceptor, while I have anecdotes that say other things, if such groups do exist then I will gladly won’t work for them.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

just out of curiosity how do you guys know what the MD's scored, is that something people ask/talk about on interviews LOL? Like y'all just casually ask people what their step 1 score was? If not, how can you be so sure? or is that just heresay? or can you just look at their face and know "oh they def scored like 10-15 points below me" LOL

It's really not that hard to find out what people's scores are....

This is soo silly, like really man come on, a DO with a 250 will be fine for most specialties if they apply broadly and have the app(MD’s need the app too btw), there’s also former AOA programs that are biased towards DO’s and many of these programs are excellent places to train and there are MD’s that don’t match into their desired specialty and would kill for a spot at one of those programs, overall this just silly SDN talk that has little practical significance in the real world, as BorntobeDO said, many DO’s can prbly apply to way less programs like MD’s but it’s just the fear of being discriminated against why they apply to 60+ prorgams and in hindsight they would have been fine with apply to 30-40, yes some MD places will take an MD with lower scores but that doesn’t mean that you won’t match

Bolded #1: "most specialties" and "apply broadly" being the phrases. An MD from literally any MD school is competitive for any speciality. For the mid tier specialties they can apply a hell of a lot less broadly too.

Bolded #2: They absolutely have much more lenient expectations for many programs. For example, an MD with a 220 and zero research output will WALTZ into university IM programs.

Bolded #3: and many of them are not very good (field dependent).


I’m not saying a DO with a 250 won’t match. I’m saying a DO with a top 20 app in some fields will get a mid tier program an average USMD will waltz into. The MD degree gives an applicant far more flexibility with where they match, and to what "tier." Obviously a lot of people don't care about tier, but they still have the opportunity to apply with a far more focused group of programs than a DO does.

For instance, a 250+ with >10 pubs will plateau at a place like Cleveland Clinic in IM. Which is great and all, but a USMD with that same app might decline the interview there or go there as a safety.

This. In the field I'll be applying to DO's should expect to get interviews to places that MD's are interviewing at with scores 20 points lower than yours, and far less research. If I get 1-2 interviews from my reaches list (about 30 programs) then I'll be thrilled.

I promise you that there are places that say MDs Only

To be fair bro a lot of that on those types of websites really is just semantics. I personally know members of an anesthesia group in a very competitive market, used to work with them in college for years, and they say "MD's Only" when they hire but they straight up told me it really means "physician only" to keep out CRNAs. Not saying there won't be places that won't hire you because of where you trained but that you can't just take what you read on sites like Gasworks at face value.

 

[Dantrolene FC]

Just go to gasworks and look at some of the job postings in desirable cities

I promise you that there are places that say MDs Only

Also, the work environment desirability can vary among groups as well.

When it says MD only, that doesn’t literally mean MD only. It means physician only, i.e. no CRNAs.

 

[Dantrolene FC]

I’m not saying this to brag. I’m just trying to help settle the debate.

I’m US-MD from a mid-tier school. I have average board scores and no research, other than the mandatory poster presentation my school made us do. I applied anesthesia and got interviews from all regions of the country including some top programs.

The few times I saw DO candidates applying with me I frequently overheard them talking about how they struggled to get interviews.

 

[sab3156]

This was probably then saying on doc that were ACGME trained. I worked with DO ER docs that said some places were harder to work if you were AOA trained but now with the merger everyone will be acgme trained. If they are actually discrimination on DO degree isn’t that illegal?

There is absolutely no legal ramification for discriminating against DOs, and it's totally understandable why a department/hospital/private practice would not want to hire DOs.

When it says MD only, that doesn’t literally mean MD only. It means physician only, i.e. no CRNAs.

I'm sure what you're saying is correct for a lot of places, but still isn't necessarily true everywhere - the two hospitals I've been doing research at do not hire DOs (in many departments), even though they don't openly say it. Some places do openly say it, though. I also know of several private practices that don't hire DOs. It is what it is. There are plenty of places that will hire a DO, but we can't ignore the point that was being made (that the DO degree does in fact limit your opportunities, to a certain level).

 

[deleted898021]

There is absolutely no legal ramifications for discriminating against DOs, and it's totally understandable why there are departments/hospitals that do not hire DOs.



I'm sure what you're saying is correct for a lot of places, but still isn't necessarily true everywhere - the two hospitals I've been doing research at do not hire DOs (in many departments), even though they don't openly say it. I also know of several private practices that don't hire DOs. It is what it is. There are plenty of places that will hire a DO, but we can't ignore the point that was being made (that the DO degree does in fact limit your opportunities, to a certain level).

What hospital is this where don’t hire DO’s but let DO students do cutting edge research? It’s seems contradictory to their “policies”

 

[Dantrolene FC]

There is absolutely no legal ramifications for discriminating against DOs, and it's totally understandable why there are departments/hospitals that do not hire DOs.



I'm sure what you're saying is correct for a lot of places, but still isn't necessarily true everywhere - the two hospitals I've been doing research at do not hire DOs (in many departments), even though they don't openly say it. I also know of several private practices that don't hire DOs. It is what it is. There are plenty of places that will hire a DO, but we can't ignore the point that was being made (that the DO degree does in fact limit your opportunities, to a certain level).

I’m not saying there isn’t a bias. I just don’t think they would outright advertise it. They would just throw away your CV if that’s how they felt.

Where I’m at, people use MD as shorthand instead of typing doctor or physician.

 

[libertyyne]

What hospital is this where don’t hire DO’s but let DO students do cutting edge research? It’s seems contradictory to their “policies”

they let people without medical degrees do cutting edge research. Doesnt mean squat.

 

[Epilepsy365]

Every year, the OMS Is get indoctrinated into the OMM cult from the OMS IIs, drank the kool aid, and put all the OMS IVs and current residents on blast saying that we’re a bunch of self hating DOs by pointing out some DO ceiling breaking matches etc... and how we don’t know jack about medicine, life, and future match.

Then, when board season looms closer, they start getting a dose of reality from their buddy OMS IIIs, and suffer through threats of unprofessionalism from their DO admin while the curriculum is backward in term of screwing you out for a strong Step 1, they themselves become self hating DOs. The ones that made it through the fire will come back here to give warnings. Of course, nobody will listen.

Your future. Ain’t me. I’m in the best mood that I have been in years. It’s good to finally not give a damn about admin opinions. Oh, they are giving me an option to come back to teach the kids about clinical medicine during my last four weeks. The hours are 9-4 Mon to Fri. I ghost that email. The standard is now a min 3 day weekend with me being done at 1-2 PM. Feel good to give the middle finger to the man.

 

[deleted898021]

Every year, the OMS Is get indoctrinated into the OMM cult from the OMS IIs, drank the kool aid, and put all the OMS IVs and current residents on blast saying that we’re a bunch of self hating DOs by pointing out some DO ceiling breaking matches etc... and how we don’t know jack about medicine, life, and future match.

Then, when board season looms closer, they start getting a dose of reality from their buddy OMS IIIs, and suffer through threats of unprofessionalism from their DO admin while the curriculum is backward in term of screwing you out for a strong Step 1, they themselves become self hating DOs. The ones that made it through the fire will come back here to give warnings. Of course, nobody will listen.

Your future. Ain’t me. I’m in the best mood that I have been in years. It’s good to finally not give a damn about admin opinions. Oh, they are giving me an option to come back to teach the kids about clinical medicine during my last four weeks. The hours are 9-4 Mon to Fri. I ghost that email. The standard is now a min 3 day weekend with me being done at 1-2 PM. Feel good to give the middle finger to the man.

Way to give back to the school that gave you an opportunity to put on the white coat and make something out of yourself, instead you go on a stupid online forum to hate on and rant on the profession and your school cause you had to apply to more programs and didn't get enough "top tier residency interviews" and now you illogically believe that your DO degree will relegate you to some no name suburb and won't be able to work with "elitist MD private practice" groups , real classy bro, you gotta grow up man and realize the tremendous opportunity you still were given, DO or MD who gives a hoot, low tier residency or top drawer residency who gives a hoot, other than people on SDN..

 

[hallowmann]

Every year, the OMS Is get indoctrinated into the OMM cult from the OMS IIs, drank the kool aid, and put all the OMS IVs and current residents on blast saying that we’re a bunch of self hating DOs by pointing out some DO ceiling breaking matches etc... and how we don’t know jack about medicine, life, and future match.

Then, when board season looms closer, they start getting a dose of reality from their buddy OMS IIIs, and suffer through threats of unprofessionalism from their DO admin while the curriculum is backward in term of screwing you out for a strong Step 1, they themselves become self hating DOs. The ones that made it through the fire will come back here to give warnings. Of course, nobody will listen.

Your future. Ain’t me. I’m in the best mood that I have been in years. It’s good to finally not give a damn about admin opinions. Oh, they are giving me an option to come back to teach the kids about clinical medicine during my last four weeks. The hours are 9-4 Mon to Fri. I ghost that email. The standard is now a min 3 day weekend with me being done at 1-2 PM. Feel good to give the middle finger to the man.

To be fair, every year we hear the OMS IIIs/IVs freak out about how much the DO degree is limiting them on residency apps... until after the match. Most residents I've talked to are pretty happy with the match outcomes. There are handfuls that aren't, but usually there's another reason than DO. Even the ones who are unhappy with their match, they realize that it was all BS to begin with when they actually are residents and when they actually participate in the process from the other side. Its a cluster, random, and unpredictable unfortunately.

As an aside, every year we also hear from Spring semester OMS IIs freaking out about boards and being bitter in general at the world. Arguing that OMM and other classes are ruining their lives. Then they end up doing OK on the Step. Hey I was right there with them to be honest. Spring of 2nd year is one of the most stressful times in med school.

Also, lots of people hate on their schools and the stupid requirements. Its what med students do. Yes, absolutely do your 3 day work week and leaving at 1-2 PM. Its what exactly you should do. That's what 4th year is for. The second half of 4th year still remains as one of the best times of my life.

It's really not that hard to find out what people's scores are....
Bolded #1: "most specialties" and "apply broadly" being the phrases. An MD from literally any MD school is competitive for any speciality. For the mid tier specialties they can apply a hell of a lot less broadly too.

Bolded #2: They absolutely have much more lenient expectations for many programs. For example, an MD with a 220 and zero research output will WALTZ into university IM programs.

Bolded #3: and many of them are not very good (field dependent).


I’m not saying a DO with a 250 won’t match. I’m saying a DO with a top 20 app in some fields will get a mid tier program an average USMD will waltz into. The MD degree gives an applicant far more flexibility with where they match, and to what "tier." Obviously a lot of people don't care about tier, but they still have the opportunity to apply with a far more focused group of programs than a DO does.


This. In the field I'll be applying to DO's should expect to get interviews to places that MD's are interviewing at with scores 20 points lower than yours, and far less research. If I get 1-2 interviews from my reaches list (about 30 programs) then I'll be thrilled.


To be fair bro a lot of that on those types of websites really is just semantics. I personally know members of an anesthesia group in a very competitive market, used to work with them in college for years, and they say "MD's Only" when they hire but they straight up told me it really means "physician only" to keep out CRNAs. Not saying there won't be places that won't hire you because of where you trained but that you can't just take what you read on sites like Gasworks at face value.

This is a fair overall assessment.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Way to give back to the school that gave you an opportunity to put on the white coat and make something out of yourself, instead you go on a stupid online forum to hate on and rant on the profession and your school cause you had to apply to more programs and didn't get enough "top tier residency interviews" and now you illogically believe that your DO degree will relegate you to some no name suburb and won't be able to work with "elitist MD private practice" groups , real classy bro, you gotta grow up man and realize the tremendous opportunity you still were given, DO or MD who gives a hoot, low tier residency or top drawer residency who gives a hoot, other than people on SDN..

Get off the high horse. We don't owe our schools ****. Way to completely mischaracterize someone's statements just so you can have this self-righteous tirade.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

On SDN if you don't end up in a university program, make 400k 3 years after residency, and proceed to label all osteopathy as devil spawn you've failed and your degree is worthless and you should have just bagged groceries instead.

As much as I harp on some DO schools. I want you guys to remember that if it wasn't for DO schools none of you would even have the route or possibility to become a physician. And above all anything that ends with a residency of any sort is worth being happy. Plenty of your fmg colleagues will have spent years trying to get into residency, any residency. Being able to match into FM and have a 9 to 5 career that pays 200-300k with minimal emergencies is not worthless. It's a lifestyle specialty that is borderline 100% guarantied by passing.

 

[deleted898021]

On SDN if you don't end up in a university program, make 400k 3 years after residency, and proceed to label all osteopathy as devil spawn you've failed and your degree is worthless and you should have just bagged groceries instead.

As much as I harp on some DO schools. I want you guys to remember that if it wasn't for DO schools none of you would even have the route or possibility to become a physician. And above all anything that ends with a residency of any sort is worth being happy. Plenty of your fmg colleagues will have spent years trying to get into residency, any residency. Being able to match into FM and have a 9 to 5 career that pays 200-300k with minimal emergencies is not worthless. It's a lifestyle specialty that is borderline 100% guarantied by passing.

so true, also I have not heard of one alumni from our school who ranked or applied to a place due to prestige,that’s soo silly, people on here complaining that they only got a few interviews from thier reach programs should just get over themselves, also people who only want to be in a specific geographical area despite going to a school on the opposite side of the country and no connection to that area should also get over themselves. You should expect to go to residency where you went to school/your home state or places far away where you did aways at its plain and simple, maybe MD students can over come this due to their initials but if you are gonna be nit picky about that kind of stuff it’s just silly, there’s also DO programs that will mainly consider your app even if they are not in your geographical area as a DO you should be ok with training at these programs especially in some competitive specialties and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, unless all you care about is the prestige of your match.

 

[hallowmann]

On SDN if you don't end up in a university program, make 400k 3 years after residency, and proceed to label all osteopathy as devil spawn you've failed and your degree is worthless and you should have just bagged groceries instead.

As much as I harp on some DO schools. I want you guys to remember that if it wasn't for DO schools none of you would even have the route or possibility to become a physician. And above all anything that ends with a residency of any sort is worth being happy. Plenty of your fmg colleagues will have spent years trying to get into residency, any residency. Being able to match into FM and have a 9 to 5 career that pays 200-300k with minimal emergencies is not worthless. It's a lifestyle specialty that is borderline 100% guarantied by passing.

Shhhh! What are you doing man? SDN's not for posts like these. Its for complaining about making ONLY 3-4 times the average US household, and being upset that you can't afford a new Tesla because you have to max out your IRA.

 

[Neopolymath]

Way to give back to the school that gave you an opportunity to put on the white coat and make something out of yourself, instead you go on a stupid online forum to hate on and rant on the profession and your school cause you had to apply to more programs and didn't get enough "top tier residency interviews" and now you illogically believe that your DO degree will relegate you to some no name suburb and won't be able to work with "elitist MD private practice" groups , real classy bro, you gotta grow up man and realize the tremendous opportunity you still were given, DO or MD who gives a hoot, low tier residency or top drawer residency who gives a hoot, other than people on SDN..

Being a DO is not a profession. You cannot profession hate something that isn't a profession. We are physicians first, foremost, and solely.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Get off the high horse. We don't owe our schools ****. Way to completely mischaracterize someone's statements just so you can have this self-righteous tirade.

Yes, you do. You owe them that DO they will put behind your name which will allow you to be called a physician and get paid 200K or more.

Edit: I'm completely ready to get burned for this comment lol.

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[libertyyne]

Yes, you do. You owe them that DO they will put behind your name which will allow you to be called a physician and get paid 200K or more.

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No. I go to an MD school and I dont owe my school squat. It was a mutually beneficial transaction. If they didnt admit me their class would have gone unfilled, and they would loose money, or they would have gotten a worse candidate who could have possibly failed or did worse. I pay them hundreds of thousands of dollars and they have the most qualified person they could find. If they could get anyone more qualified than me they would have not hesitated.

 

[deleted898021]

Yes, you do. You owe them that DO they will put behind your name which will allow you to be called a physician and get paid 200K or more.

Edit: I'm completely ready to get burned for this comment lol.

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Your absolutely right no shame in saying it. The entitled people on here can get it

 

[deleted898021]

No. I go to an MD school and I dont owe my school squat. It was a mutually beneficial transaction. If they didnt admit me their class would have gone unfilled, and they would loose money, or they would have gotten a worse candidate who could have possibly failed or did worse. I pay them hundreds of thousands of dollars and they have the most qualified person they could find. If they could get anyone more qualified than me they would have not hesitated.

Bruh you really think thier class would be unfilled or another student couldn’t pass? I know many qualified people who didn’t make it to USMD and DO schools LMAO. My DO school gets like 4000+ apps for 100 spots, no medical school class will go unfilled bruh stop day dreaming.

 

[libertyyne]

Bruh you really think thier class would be unfolded LMAO. My DO school gets like 4000+ apps for 100 spots, no medical school class will go unfilled

how many of those apps have no business applying to medical school? like 2.0 gpa 15 mcat? Your school would not think twice about replacing you with more qualified applicant if they could. Just as students dont think twice about going to a higher ranked school etc. You are literally the best person they could find to put in their class.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

No. I go to an MD school and I dont owe my school squat. It was a mutually beneficial transaction. If they didnt admit me their class would have gone unfilled, and they would loose money, or they would have gotten a worse candidate who could have possibly failed or did worse. I pay them hundreds of thousands of dollars and they have the most qualified person they could find. If they could get anyone more qualified than me they would have not hesitated.

I'm pretty sure they had other perfectly fine candidates they could have accepted instead of you. You're not special in any way, shape, or form. Then if you didn't have other acceptances, you would have been a reapplicant which would have made it even harder to land any acceptance on subsequent cycles.

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