So my OB resident has a septum nose ring...

[Mad Jack]

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On my 3rd year OB clerkship and I work with a senior resident who wears a 10-guage septum nose ring at work. I got in a heated argument with another classmate when we discussed the do's and don'ts of looking professional. I may be biased from prior military service, but I feel there should be a certain image medical professionals are held to. He thinks otherwise and called me a fascist for suppressing one's individuality. I am all about individuality, but come on, we are healthcare providers in a hospital- not a bunch a college kids flipping burgers at a fast food restaurant. Am I wrong?

I think you should keep it professional while you train, but one you practice, it is up to your patients to judge you and you can do whatever the **** you want.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

and you can't do that if you don't have the right jeans.

FTFY

 

[Noisewater-TDX]

I find it funny how many people in this thread seem to keep mentioning beards, or that being clean shaven as typical professional attire...when many, many male physicians (in my institution, especially in the highly competitive surgical fields) regularly rock beards.

If I didnt shave for a month I would look like the duck dynasty doctor. That, to me, is not okay for a doc.

Now, a hefty well kept full beard is okay though.

 

[Taco Time]

I find it funny how many people in this thread seem to keep mentioning beards, or that being clean shaven as typical professional attire...when many, many male physicians (in my institution, especially in the highly competitive surgical fields) regularly rock beards.

But this chick with a piercing???? Total tool who obviously cares more about herself than her patients. I wouldn't trust her judgment.

The reason why I mentioned it is because the topic of professionalism comes up, and since about half of the demographic applying to med school and residency are males, facial hair can help tie in the context to make a point. And the point is that no med school interviewer or PD will be upset when an applicant shows up with a clean shave, but I've heard of PDs who go through the applicant photos and toss out any of the apps where guy has facial hair. If a specialty is ultra competitive and there's 50 stellar applicants for 2 spots, why even risk sporting facial hair if there's a chance that the PD has some weird agenda? Now as an attending, I think most don't mind so long as one is well groomed.

The main point is that there will never be a patient who gets offended that their physician doesn't have a nose ring, and that it's a real possibility that some patients will not respond as well to a physician that has a ten gauge septum nose ring. I'd also argue that if someone wants to take the hit with interviewing by sporting facial hair, then that's their call, and it only affects them. A nose ring, on the other hand, actually compromises the patient-physician relationship.

 

[FBurnaby]

I think many would agree that we're not asking that she take out the gauge, just that OP isn't in the wrong and that professionalism is patient centered. I have many tattoos but still try to keep them covered at all patient times because the potential of hurting the relationship.

 

[SansaStarkMD]

Facial hair is normal as far as I'm concerned. Way different than a nose ring.

 

[deafdealer]

On my 3rd year OB clerkship and I work with a senior resident who wears a 10-guage septum nose ring at work. I got in a heated argument with another classmate when we discussed the do's and don'ts of looking professional. I may be biased from prior military service, but I feel there should be a certain image medical professionals are held to. He thinks otherwise and called me a fascist for suppressing one's individuality. I am all about individuality, but come on, we are healthcare providers in a hospital- not a bunch a college kids flipping burgers at a fast food restaurant. Am I wrong?

You are most definitely wrong, because WE ARE NOT PROVIDERS

 

[Wordead]

The reason why I mentioned it is because the topic of professionalism comes up, and since about half of the demographic applying to med school and residency are males, facial hair can help tie in the context to make a point. And the point is that no med school interviewer or PD will be upset when an applicant shows up with a clean shave, but I've heard of PDs who go through the applicant photos and toss out any of the apps where guy has facial hair. If a specialty is ultra competitive and there's 50 stellar applicants for 2 spots, why even risk sporting facial hair if there's a chance that the PD has some weird agenda? Now as an attending, I think most don't mind so long as one is well groomed.

The main point is that there will never be a patient who gets offended that their physician doesn't have a nose ring, and that it's a real possibility that some patients will not respond as well to a physician that has a ten gauge septum nose ring. I'd also argue that if someone wants to take the hit with interviewing by sporting facial hair, then that's their call, and it only affects them. A nose ring, on the other hand, actually compromises the patient-physician relationship.

Bah, patients will not respond well to you for a million different reasons. Who cares. I'm sure a large segment of the population would prefer that I be an Aryan Nation poster boy. You can't please everyone. They can go see another doctor that doesnt have a nose ring. I think that OB will be just fine without those patients.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

On my 3rd year OB clerkship and I work with a senior resident who wears a 10-guage septum nose ring at work. I got in a heated argument with another classmate when we discussed the do's and don'ts of looking professional. I may be biased from prior military service, but I feel there should be a certain image medical professionals are held to. He thinks otherwise and called me a fascist for suppressing one's individuality. I am all about individuality, but come on, we are healthcare providers in a hospital- not a bunch a college kids flipping burgers at a fast food restaurant. Am I wrong?

People are allowed to have their individuality, but I'm also allowed to think of them as clowns.

 

[Taco Time]

Bah, patients will not respond well to you for a million different reasons. Who cares. I'm sure a large segment of the population would prefer that I be an Aryan Nation poster boy. You can't please everyone. They can go see another doctor that doesnt have a nose ring. I think that OB will be just fine without those patients.

Aryan nation poster boy? Being of color or whatever gender does not decide professionalism. This is deriding rhetoric that you're using to try and make my argument null, and it makes no sense for you to do so. The reality is that nose gauges can detract from professionalism. They do not contribute towards professionalism. I've yet to see anyone refute this. Tossing race or gender into this has nothing to do with OPs post or this discussion.

 

[Etorphine]

OK, and if you expressed that view to me, I wouldn't trust your ability to see beyond snap judgements and stereotypes...and many people would agree with me. It tends to cut both ways, when people have differing opinions.

frankly i don't care what you think. a 10 ga nose ring has no place on the face of a MD in clinical practice. perhaps I should start wearing a unicorn tiara to express myself at work....hope no one stereotypes me

 

[mehc012]

frankly i don't care what you think. a 10 ga nose ring has no place on the face of a MD in clinical practice. perhaps I should start wearing a unicorn tiara to express myself at work....hope no one stereotypes me

And that's fine. I in no way expected you to care what I thought. Just as the person with the nose ring clearly does not care about what you think. That's the whole irony here.

Their not caring makes them immature and a tool. Yours makes you superior for not being naive. My not caring about what they do (I have neither piercings nor tattoos, so it's not personal) makes me whatever less-than-pleasant descriptors have probably been thrown out in this thread already (I haven't bothered to look at the specifics). Everyone gets all worked up and it's ultimately petty, meaningless crap. Just remember that even the most popular opinion is still just that: an opinion. There's no right answer here.

 

[vm26]

what about a mohawk for a guy?

 

[Etorphine]

And that's fine. I in no way expected you to care what I thought. Just as the person with the nose ring clearly does not care about what you think. That's the whole irony here.

Their not caring makes them immature and a tool. Yours makes you superior for not being naive. My not caring about what they do (I have neither piercings nor tattoos, so it's not personal) makes me whatever less-than-pleasant descriptors have probably been thrown out in this thread already (I haven't bothered to look at the specifics). Everyone gets all worked up and it's ultimately petty, meaningless crap. Just remember that even the most popular opinion is still just that: an opinion. There's no right answer here.

When it comes to working in medicine, I disagree with your premise that it doesn't matter. I can't tell you how many times I've met a patient for the 1st time and had to develop rapid trust for a life-changing intervention, or delivered bad news to a pt and their family and had to rapidly get EVERYONE to trust that I'm on their side. In these situations, having the pt or their family not trust you is a MAJOR problem when they stop taking their medications or leave the hospital AMA with a critical illness. In the grand scheme of things a nose ring is probably not a big deal, but I think it is selfish to introduce variables that could quickly turn a patient off. It is about keeping the emphasis on them, and not on you, so you can deliver the best healthcare. Seriously, I can't tell you how many times some shenanigans happened when a pt mistrusted a doctor and suffered a preventable harm. And if my experience has taught me anything, pts stop trusting their doctors for all sorts of reasons, many of which might seem superficial or less than politically correct. In another field where dressing or acting a certain way might get you fired and that is it, fine. In medicine, the circumstances are different.

 

[Wordead]

Aryan nation poster boy? Being of color or whatever gender does not decide professionalism. This is deriding rhetoric that you're using to try and make my argument null, and it makes no sense for you to do so. The reality is that nose gauges can detract from professionalism. They do not contribute towards professionalism. I've yet to see anyone refute this. Tossing race or gender into this has nothing to do with OPs post or this discussion.

No I'm saying I dont give three ****s if it "detracts from professionalism" which is just vague garbage in my opinion. Those patients can go see someone else. Who cares.

I find it annoying and somewhat unprofessional that applicants come through and still can't properly knot a tie or wear suits that are ill-fitting. At least a nose ring is deliberate and not just bumbling incompetence. But I don't judge their worth as a coworker and physician based on it. I'd be an idiot if I did. Just like judging this OB resident for a nose ring is stupid.

 

[Taco Time]

No I'm saying I dont give three ****s if it "detracts from professionalism" which is just vague garbage in my opinion. Those patients can go see someone else. Who cares.

I find it annoying and somewhat unprofessional that applicants come through and still can't properly knot a tie or wear suits that are ill-fitting. At least a nose ring is deliberate and not just bumbling incompetence. But I don't judge their worth as a coworker and physician based on it. I'd be an idiot if I did. Just like judging this OB resident for a nose ring is stupid.

If you're telling me that professionalism doesn't matter for a physician in his/her attempt to deliver care, I disagree with you 100%. Professionalism lends credibility to a physician when trying to convince a patient to adhere to the delivery of care, which can deal with the quality of one's life and even life and death. Are you going to tell me that this doesn't matter? Read Etorphine's post (the one right above your comment), and point to me where in his/her argument he/she goes wrong. Your argument is that any physician should be allowed to express themselves as they choose, even if a sizable contingent of patients (10% of patients could be hundreds over the span of a year) they see will draw ire to the physician's ensemble to the point of not following through on care. I think this is wrong. Biases are implicit in decision-making and in one's willingness to follow through on directions, and these biases are most times on a subconscious level. Hence, why I have stated several times that the reason why any physician should not wear a nose gauge in a clinical setting is that no patient will ever not listen to a physician because said physician was not wearing a nose gauge; the inverse is not true.

I've shadowed physicians that discussed politics with me in a one on one situation, and I knew their opinions. But guess what? If a patient brought up politics, the physician simply redirected the discussion back to the topic of the patient's healthcare. This was done even if the patient's views aligned with those of the physician or whether they were in stark contrast. The doctor-patient relationship is not the time for a physician to flaunt one's persona or beliefs or sense of style if it risks professionalism. The relationship should center on the health of the patient. I hope my appearance consummates that of a trustworthy doctor. That's it. A patient should leave the clinic thinking about the plan set out in agreement to better their own health rather than some accessory I decided to wear to work.

 

[jhamaican]

straight trash. if it was my family would demand another doctor. 100% serious no trolling.

this huge nose ring represents a failure of the doctor to understand what really matters: the goal is to put the emphasis on your patients, not the doctors individuality through some puerile nose ring.

 

[jhamaican]

Bah, patients will not respond well to you for a million different reasons. Who cares. I'm sure a large segment of the population would prefer that I be an Aryan Nation poster boy. You can't please everyone. They can go see another doctor that doesnt have a nose ring. I think that OB will be just fine without those patients.

please get off sdn you piece of race baiting trash.

Your comment is absurd and adds nothing to the conversation

Why even try to look professional at all? who cares?

unbelievably dumb. Please go

 

[Zebra Hunter]

what about a mohawk for a guy?

We have a guy like that in my residency class. One of our funnier attendings pulled him aside one day and said "Every single one of your patients is going to go home, not take their medications, and die. You know why? Because they are going to say, 'Why the hell should I trust the idiot with a mohawk?' " Obviously that was tongue in cheek, but there is a small bit of truth to that. Many of your older patients are going to have a hard time trusting a non-traditional looking physician (unfortunately, sometimes that means they don't trust female docs either).

 

[RooibosTea]

We have a guy like that in my residency class. One of our funnier attendings pulled him aside one day and said "Every single one of your patients is going to go home, not take their medications, and die. You know why? Because they are going to say, 'Why the hell should I trust the idiot with a mohawk?' " Obviously that was tongue in cheek, but there is a small bit of truth to that. Many of your older patients are going to have a hard time trusting a non-traditional looking physician (unfortunately, sometimes that means they don't trust female docs either).

then they can go and die.

 

[jhamaican]

then they can go and die.

No I'm saying I dont give three ****s if it "detracts from professionalism" which is just vague garbage in my opinion. Those patients can go see someone else. Who cares.

I find it annoying and somewhat unprofessional that applicants come through and still can't properly knot a tie or wear suits that are ill-fitting. At least a nose ring is deliberate and not just bumbling incompetence. But I don't judge their worth as a coworker and physician based on it. I'd be an idiot if I did. Just like judging this OB resident for a nose ring is stupid.

So much confusion and self-entitlement in this thread.

Only in medicine are individuals surprised when they are judged based on professionalism including looks and personality.

The world cares about how you look and carry yourself. Get over it. This is not going to change. You are not a special and unique snowflake that doesn't have to play the game.

Part of your duty as a physician is to attempt to meet patients half way, regardless of how ill founded their ideals of professionalism may seem to you.

Get over yourselves.

 

[Taco Time]

then they [the resident] can go get a normal haircut so no one has to die.

Fixed that for you.

If a physician says that they'd rather express themselves throughout their 30-40 year career as they please even if it meant that a single patient will be turned off by their ensemble and not follow the treatment plan, then I don't think this person has the right attitude to be a physician. It already sucks enough to not be able to cure someone's cancer or treat their ALS. Why know that some patients will be harmed just because you decided to be flamboyant? Yes, a nose gauge is flamboyant, as is some over the top haircut. Getting a decent haircut and not accessorizing inappropriately is the lowest hanging fruit when it comes to approaching taking care of patients with the mantra of "do no harm" first and foremost.

 

[mehc012]

When it comes to working in medicine, I disagree with your premise that it doesn't matter. I can't tell you how many times I've met a patient for the 1st time and had to develop rapid trust for a life-changing intervention, or delivered bad news to a pt and their family and had to rapidly get EVERYONE to trust that I'm on their side. In these situations, having the pt or their family not trust you is a MAJOR problem when they stop taking their medications or leave the hospital AMA with a critical illness. In the grand scheme of things a nose ring is probably not a big deal, but I think it is selfish to introduce variables that could quickly turn a patient off. It is about keeping the emphasis on them, and not on you, so you can deliver the best healthcare. Seriously, I can't tell you how many times some shenanigans happened when a pt mistrusted a doctor and suffered a preventable harm. And if my experience has taught me anything, pts stop trusting their doctors for all sorts of reasons, many of which might seem superficial or less than politically correct. In another field where dressing or acting a certain way might get you fired and that is it, fine. In medicine, the circumstances are different.

I've heard your argument approximately 8 billion times on here, and I still think it's overblown, self-perpetuating, self-important BS. It honestly strikes me as nothing more than a way for people to pat themselves on the back for zero extra effort.

 

[Taco Time]

I've heard your argument approximately 8 billion times on here, and I still think it's overblown, self-perpetuating, self-important BS. It honestly strikes me as nothing more than a way for people to pat themselves on the back for zero extra effort.

Self-important? You mean like a physician that feels that wearing a nose gauge septum is so important to her that she needs to wear it every single day to clinic--hence also being self-perpetuating.

And if any patient doesn't take her seriously, they oughta take a hike, right? Because these patients dare not generalize what a professional physician's ensemble and demeanor ought to be. It's not like these patients are already dealing with a horrible time of being in the hospital for some serious health problems or are dealing with a stressful situation like going into labor.

After all, these physicians aren't bonafide flight attendants or anything. Believe it or not, most airlines don't allow attendants to have nose rings. Should we all boycott planes since most airlines don't approve of their employees interacting with their customers in a fashion that allows the attendants to express themselves aptly? I'd argue that this physician's sense of self-importance is the problem and not Etorphine's post. I'd argue Etorphine's stance has less of a sense of self-importance than both your's and the physician's stances. A willingness to not want to stand out in any way that can even be perceived as off-putting can be described as putting the patient ahead of oneself--or the actual opposite of self-importance. This is what professionalism is.

 

[mehc012]

Self-important? You mean like a physician that feels that wearing a nose gauge septum is so important to her that she needs to wear it every single day to clinic--hence also being self-perpetuating.

And if any patient doesn't take her seriously, they oughta take a hike, right? Because these patients dare not generalize what a professional physician's ensemble and demeanor ought to be. It's not like these patients are already dealing with a horrible time of being in the hospital for some serious health problems or are dealing with a stressful situation like going into labor.

After all, these physicians aren't bonafide flight attendants or anything. Believe it or not, most airlines don't allow attendants to have nose rings. Should we all boycott planes since most airlines don't approve of their employees interacting with their customers in a fashion that allows the attendants to express themselves aptly? I'd argue that this physician's sense of self-importance is the problem and not Etorphine's post. I'd argue Etorphine's stance is less on self-importance than both your's and the physician's stances. A willingness to not want to stand out in any way that can even be perceived as off-putting can be described as putting the patient ahead of oneself--or the actual opposite of self-importance. This is what professionalism is.

You're putting a lot of judgement of the patient into my posts that isn't there. I've never said that patients ought to take a hike, or anything remotely similar. That is a sentiment that you are ascribing to the nose ring, and nothing more.

 

[Taco Time]

You're putting a lot of judgement of the patient into my posts that isn't there. I've never said that patients ought to take a hike, or anything remotely similar. That is a sentiment that you are ascribing to the nose ring, and nothing more.

That's exactly what your argument lends itself to. Putting one's self-importance ahead of what is best for the patient (even if it's only 1/250 patients) is the equivalent of telling that one patient to take a hike. If you're saying that you don't mean that, you're still wrong. It doesn't matter how minuscule the physician perceives her nose ring to be. What matters is if there is the potential for any patient to perceive it as an issue. You can't cherry pick and ignore the other side of the coin.

You can't make a claim (physician wearing nose gauge is no biggy) and then distance yourself from the consequences of the implementation of those claims (potential: 1/250 patients doesn't take medical advice because they saw some doc with a ridiculous nose gauge). Others in this thread have used your same rationale and claim to not only say that patients should take a hike, but that if they don't agree with their physician's (lack of) professionalism, then they ought to not only take a hike but walk off the proverbial edge.

 

[Taco Time]

then they can go and die.

 

[mehc012]

That's exactly what your argument lends itself to. Putting one's self-importance ahead of what is best for the patient (even if it's only 1/250 patients) is the equivalent of telling that one patient to take a hike. If you're saying that you don't mean that, you're still wrong. It doesn't matter how minuscule the physician perceives her nose ring to be. What matters is if there is the potential for any patient to perceive it as an issue. You can't cherry pick and ignore the other side of the coin.

You can't make a claim (physician wearing nose gauge is no biggy) and then distance yourself from the consequences of the implementation of those claims (potential: 1/250 patients doesn't take medical advice because they saw some doc with a ridiculous nose gauge). Others in this thread have used your same rationale and claim to not only say that patients should take a hike, but that if they don't agree with their physician's (lack of) professionalism, then they ought to not only take a hike but walk off the proverbial edge.

Then argue with those other people about the things they've said; that's a separate discussion.

The issue here is that you are thinking that because you view nose rings that way, or even that because it's the more common view, all patients will feel the same. But while there are surely patients who dislike them, there are others who feel uncomfortable around people dressed up and in ties, or who won't feel comfortable enforcing their own health autonomy with someone who seems too much like an authority figure, or who are defensive and non-trusting around doctors because they're used to being judged for their own tattoos/piercings...the point is, there are effects in both directions. Now, I'm not saying that anyone should go out and get pierced to make patients feel comfortable (again, do you think people would if the studies unexpectedly showed increased trust in the majority of patients with them?) I'm simply a proponent of allowing there to be diversity within the healthcare field, including some doctors who wear piercings/tattoos if they want to. It's not the most common preference of patients, but it's also hardly the most common choice for doctors. If we let it be without jumping to judgement and acting as if a resident with a nose ring clearly doesn't gaf about their patients, things will work out. The patients who strongly dislike it will likely find a different doctor, and those who prefer it will end up with them. Just like they would in response to any other characteristic.

 

[Taco Time]

Then argue with those other people about the things they've said; that's a separate discussion.

The issue here is that you are thinking that because you view nose rings that way, or even that because it's the more common view, all patients will feel the same. But while there are surely patients who dislike them, there are others who feel uncomfortable around people dressed up and in ties, or who won't feel comfortable enforcing their own health autonomy with someone who seems too much like an authority figure, or who are defensive and non-trusting around doctors because they're used to being judged for their own tattoos/piercings...the point is, there are effects in both directions. Now, I'm not saying that anyone should go out and get pierced to make patients feel comfortable (again, do you think people would if the studies unexpectedly showed increased trust in the majority of patients with them?) I'm simply a proponent of allowing there to be diversity within the healthcare field, including some doctors who wear piercings/tattoos if they want to. It's not the most common preference of patients, but it's also hardly the most common choice for doctors. If we let it be without jumping to judgement and acting as if a resident with a nose ring clearly doesn't gaf about their patients, things will work out. The patients who strongly dislike it will likely find a different doctor, and those who prefer it will end up with them. Just like they would in response to any other characteristic.

The reality that more patients would be deterred by over-the-top piercings than the number of patients that would respond better to a physician with said piercings nullifies this argument. How many patients do you suspect a physician will have to see where they will not be able to connect professionally in a manner to best treat these patients in order for them to treat 1 patient that will respond better to the care because the physician has these piercings? The net effect, I'd argue, would still be on the minus side, which is unacceptable. And who is to say that patients with piercings and tattoos will not respond well to a physician that doesn't have a nose ring?

The physician's job is to maintain a professional relationship with the patient. If I found out that my nurse made a joke about the patient's piercings or tattoos in front of him/her, I would apologize on behalf of the nurse and have the nurse apologize to the patient's face as well. The prerogative of professionalism starts with the physician and ends there. Regardless of who the patient is and what they act, look like, or believe in, a physician needs to maintain the utmost degree of professionalism. Arguing otherwise brings one to a slippery slope.

Not being able to justify one's actions or choices on the micro/personal level and instead having to apply a specific set of circumstances on a macro level (lots of doctors who don't have nose rings cover for those that do) with parameters built on supporting one's argument (choosing to acknowledge that the number of patients attracted to the nose ring doctor will be present while also ignoring the slew of patients who will be put off by it) shows how flawed this thinking is. A physician is not n = 1 and to be blown off as inconspicuous in the grand scheme of things. I'd argue that a physician is n = # of patients he/she takes care of in one's career. With a net minus, this isn't an opportunity to embrace diversity but stands to be a problem.

 

[Seasa]

I knew friends and relatives who would think that a doctor with gauge/piercing would be so cool and would love to have that personal to be their primary. Patients have different preferences and some will find such doctor more communicable than the ones with the "professionalism" that these patients don't care about in the first place. While I do not find the aforementioned OB's appearance preferable either, I could see how she would appeal to a niche group of patients.

Reminds me of the time when a good friend's mother told us about how much she loved her new doctor. We asked her how so and she said it was because the first thing the doctor told her was "you look like ****".

 

[FBurnaby]

Posters trying to add in a gauge nose ring with innate characteristics (if a patient doesn't want females or pierced people as their doctor they can take a hike!) is a pathetic strawman and misses the point. Just as she shouldn't wear a Hillary or Trump pin, it's because she needs to welcome all potential patients and put individual opinions second. She is not in private practice catering to a niche that wants heavy piercings, but a resident that either knows that she is choosing to risk some damaged patient relationships or oblivious to this potential, which is why people are calling her a fool (those wouldn't be my words).

Again medicine more than other professions want an appearance that is formal and hygienic. We respect the patient enough to wear what is seen as formal and we need to appear hygienic for obvious reasons, unfortunately some have unhygienic associations with large pierces. And if she does look clean and professional plus a nose ring it probably doesn't matter for most of patients. But if you surveyed patients with tattoos and pierces, I bet there would be mixed opinions on their desire to have a doctor that also has those features displayed in clinic, and an even smaller fraction of those would be fine with their doctor showing up in a T shirt and jeans.

 

[jw3600]

No I'm saying I dont give three ****s if it "detracts from professionalism" which is just vague garbage in my opinion. Those patients can go see someone else. Who cares.

I find it annoying and somewhat unprofessional that applicants come through and still can't properly knot a tie or wear suits that are ill-fitting. At least a nose ring is deliberate and not just bumbling incompetence. But I don't judge their worth as a coworker and physician based on it. I'd be an idiot if I did. Just like judging this OB resident for a nose ring is stupid.

I agree with you completely. I'm surprised people are being so absolute and condescending about what is a completely subjective issue. What are your thoughts on facial hair? That's an issue that has always bugged me.

 

[RooibosTea]

So much confusion and self-entitlement in this thread.

Only in medicine are individuals surprised when they are judged based on professionalism including looks and personality.

The world cares about how you look and carry yourself. Get over it. This is not going to change. You are not a special and unique snowflake that doesn't have to play the game.

Part of your duty as a physician is to attempt to meet patients half way, regardless of how ill founded their ideals of professionalism may seem to you.

Get over yourselves.

I absolutely believe in having a professional appearance. I just don't personally believe a nose ring is unprofessional.

 

[Zebra Hunter]

Professionalism is one of those things where it really does not matter what your opinion is, if a sizable proportion of individuals believes it's unprofessional, it's unprofessional. I have no issue with co-workers cursing around me, I curse myself at work when there is no one around that will take offense, and I hold the opinion that cursing in the workplace is no big deal...that does not change the fact that it is still unprofessional, and I should cater my behavior to the people I am surrounded by.

 

[jw3600]

Hell I think supporting Donald Trump is unprofessional. How far down this rabbit hole are we going to go?

 

[Zebra Hunter]

Hell I think supporting Donald Trump is unprofessional. How far down this rabbit hole are we going to go?

Yes, openly talking about politics at work would be deemed by many to be unprofessional, the fortunate thing about politics is you don't wear your political allegiance on your sleeve. It's not really a "rabbit hole" if you just use common sense.

 

[Astra]

damn, this thread is still going on?

 

[jw3600]

Yes, openly talking about politics at work would be deemed by many to be unprofessional, the fortunate thing about politics is you don't wear your political allegiance on your sleeve. It's not really a "rabbit hole" if you just use common sense.

What about a safety pin?

 

[Zebra Hunter]

What about a safety pin?

What about a safety pin?

 

[jw3600]

What about a safety pin?

It was a joke. Google "safety pin" and you will see what I mean.

 

[mmm_cats]

Metal boogers are gross!

 

[username456789]

I absolutely believe in having a professional appearance. I just don't personally believe a nose ring is unprofessional.

Is this a serious post?

 

[OsteopathyBlues]

On my 3rd year OB clerkship and I work with a senior resident who wears a 10-guage septum nose ring at work. I got in a heated argument with another classmate when we discussed the do's and don'ts of looking professional. I may be biased from prior military service, but I feel there should be a certain image medical professionals are held to. He thinks otherwise and called me a fascist for suppressing one's individuality. I am all about individuality, but come on, we are healthcare providers in a hospital- not a bunch a college kids flipping burgers at a fast food restaurant. Am I wrong?

He's just being an individual! By doing the exact same thing his cohorts do.

 

[Cello]

I'm a pretty liberal guy, just ask @Panis et Circenses. But I agree with OP and others that healthcare professionals are held to a different standard, as they should be. Someone earlier said that the program director made the decision, and while that is true, the patient makes the ultimate decision. If my physician had a pierced septum they wore on the job I would probably see someone else in the future. Does that make me a fascist? No... A piercing like that in the workplace would lead me to question the physician's judgment. There is a reason that I don't have piercing or tattoos in publicly visible places, and it is because I know that it creates a certain impression which could ultimately jeopardize my professional image. Not doing so is my choice to exercise good judgment. Everyone is free to exercise their own form of poor judgment, but don't be surprised if patients go elsewhere.

 

[SansaStarkMD]

I anticipate a future ethics board question where the correct answer is that wearing a nose ring is professional.

 

[Taco Time]

I anticipate a future ethics board question where the correct answer is that wearing a nose ring is professional.

Ethics = 99.9% of the time is what is best for the patient

No one on here has stated yet how a nose ring can better the patient-physician relationship. Plenty of argument has been made on here on how it can definitely be detrimental. A harmed patient-physician relationship will lead to compromises to the patients' health.

Ethics > physician's sense of individuality

Therefore, you'd get the board question wrong.

Keep in mind, we are not trying to answer: is it unethical for a patient to not want to adhere to the doctor's directions because the doctor was wearing a nose ring? The question we should ask is: is it best for a physician to wear a nose ring in a clinical setting when offering healthcare to patients?

 

[W19]

I am willing to bet that this individual did not wear that septal nose ring when she was interviewing for residency...

 

[BruceWaynMD]

Medicine is a conservative profession. I agree with you

 

[Donald Juan]

I'll go back to the facial hair point: we all know it's unprofessional. No one of us with half a brain will go to a residency interview without a clean shave. But, how many residents go into clinic or the wards with a 4-5 day shadow? Or a beard that is relatively unkempt? Does this mean that they can't take 5 minutes to shave in the morning and risk a patient thinking they are unprofessional and not taking their beta blocker and now they go home and die? I guess so and it's the doctor's fault according to half the posters here, except for nobody cares because it's facial hair...

I've also talked to patients from rural areas who don't trust a doctor that wears a tie because he's a pompous blowhard, and I've talked to patients in the South who don't trust any doctor with dark skin and a foreign accent. There's only so much we can do to cater to patient's whims and prejudices. Frankly, those of us with the intelligence to become doctors should be pushing past these stupid prejudices and recognizing that a nose ring or a tattoo doesn't make someone more or less of a competent doctor.

 

[SansaStarkMD]

Haters gunna hate. You do you.