So what makes it lower tier

[Free2B]

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I've read so many posts about which school is best and rankings and "don't go here because I heard" type warnings but does anyone have any solid reasoning what exactly makes a supposed lower tiered school undesirable ? Is it....
1. Board Scores?
2. Residency matching?
3. Accepted student stats?
4. Attrition rate?
5. Quality of education inferior?
6. Malpractice incidences higher from graduates of certain schools?

I've never seen any stats on any of the school and if anyone knows please direct me to a link. I know #5 is subjective but the rest I would like to know about. i'm debating bet. med or podiatry school and if i end up in pod I could only see myself going to AZPOD or Barry, the latter of which I keep seeing negative posts

 

[Feli]

We just had the CPME accreditation committee come through Barry last week, and they asked about all kinds of stuff... classroom and lab facilities, faculty, clinic facilities and experience, library and resources, student services (fin aid, regristrar, advisement, etc).

I think the main things that make a school good in students' eyes are facilities, board pass rate, and residency placements. Those second two are almost directly related to the quality of the students, so I guess accepted student stats and attrition rate plays into that.

It depends where you think you'll succeed. A school with great clinics doesn't do you a whole lot of good if you're highly academic and like to just have tons of time to read in clinic. A school with great incoming student stats and board pass rate might not be your best fit if you aren't a great test taker and think you learn better by seeing patients. It all depends... pod every school has strengths and weaknesses. Would you rather have LCD TVs in the anat lab or plenty of patients to see in clinic? A stand-alone pod school or integration at the price of 2-300 students in some classes? A scholarship to save you $30k over the 4 years or a school which might give you better research support?

 

[PureBlue]

Feli, what is going to be in the new facility that Barry is building? Are there going to be new labs and things of that nature?

 

[bdaddyjolley]

A school with great clinics doesn't do you a whole lot of good if you're highly academic and like to just have tons of time to read in clinic.

I see what you are saying but I have to ask myself what is the point of going to clinic to read. You can read anywhere but you can't do clinical cases anywhere. It seems like that defeats the purpose of going to clinic if you're not going to do clinical work.

 

[Feli]

Feli, what is going to be in the new facility that Barry is building? Are there going to be new labs and things of that nature?

Anat labs will be the same from my understanding; I don't know about histo, neuro path, cadaver surgery, etc labs. I'd assume cadaver surgery would stay put too since it's in the anat lab, but path, neuro, and histo could move since they're done with electronic pictures instead of microscopes now.

I think a good number of the pod lectures will be in new facility next fall. There really isn't much wrong with our lecture halls now IMO... we got new large screen projector system a couple years ago when I was a first year student. I don't have a laptop, so I guess it it doesn't really affect me very much, but one big student gripe right now is not enough outlets for laptops in the pod classrooms. I'm sure that'll be addressed in the new classrooms.

I don't really keep tabs very closely on the new building since it doesn't change much for me as a 09 grad. All it essentially does for my class is puts us in a different lecture hall for the last few classes when we get back from externships. If you're visiting as a prospective student, ask questions about the facilities or go visit the construction, though.

 

[Feli]

I see what you are saying but I have to ask myself what is the point of going to clinic to read. You can read anywhere but you can't do clinical cases anywhere. It seems like that defeats the purpose of going to clinic if you're not going to do clinical work.

This is the way I feel also.^ You can read anytime anywhere, but it's not like you can see patients on your own time.

That said, having organized journal clubs or presentations and discussing academic topics is helpful to keep you on pace and reading regularly. Those aspects make sure that students stay on top of current concepts... and know enough to nail a lot of pimp question answers on externships. Even many highly respected residencies have pretty average surgical volume but very long days due to academic requirements like conferences, grand rounds, publications, journal clubs, etc.

Most of our school clinics are high in patient volume. We might have to give a PPT or discuss journal articles for an hour in the morning, but then we have to end that by 830 or 9am because there's a waiting room full of patients that sometimes won't let up until 5pm or later. Some students dislike writing up a full H&P, but I especially like new patients because it lets you try to make the diagnosis. I feel very comfortable with most basic clinical skills, notes, procedures, etc by now, and I've had plenty of practice with the more common podiatric complaints.

Busy clinic is great because you get a lot of hands-on experience, but the students who did the more academic training at another pod school due to lack of clinic patients to see might look like they know more on some rotations. It all depends; there's a lot of different philosophies on residency and even student clinic training. The clerkships where you just stand there in the corner of the OR or clinic room and answer questions as the attendings/residents do all of the care will obviously cater to the more academic student. On the other side of the coin, on clerkships where you do work hard seeing patients, writing notes, scrubbing in, etc, then I'd much prefer to have seen as many patients as possible. I guess you gotta pick your poison: do you wanna be "that one student who didn't even know the 3 histologic changes of a neuroma or what a Lepird was" or do you want to be "that kid from school X who couldn't even do a hallux block or write a good SOAP note"?

 

[bdaddyjolley]

Busy clinic is great because you get a lot of hands-on experience, but the students who did the more academic training at another pod school due to lack of clinic patients to see might look like they know more on some rotations. It all depends; there's a lot of different philosophies on residency and even student clinic training. The clerkships where you just stand there in the corner of the OR or clinic room and answer questions as the attendings/residents do all of the care will obviously cater to the more academic student. On the other side of the coin, on clerkships where you do work hard seeing patients, writing notes, scrubbing in, etc, then I'd much prefer to have seen as many patients as possible. I guess you gotta pick your poison: do you wanna be "that one student who didn't even know the 3 histologic changes of a neuroma or what a Lepird was" or do you want to be "that kid from school X who couldn't even do a hallux block or write a good SOAP note"?

You make a lot of great points. I would just like to add that I think you can have both. It's all about how you balance things out. You can be in a busy clinic and still have a vast knowledge of academics if you know how to balance your time. I have met quite of few students who are in this category. It all depends on what you put in. I know that one student here at TUSPM that asked a professor in the clinic to give out different pimp questions every day to keep them on their feet. The professor was very impressed by the desire of this student to be at the top of their game and learn the most. Knowing what you want is key and then making a game plan to acheive it is what follows for great success. So if you want both, why not?