So what's considered a good Absite score for an intern?

[Chirurgia magna]

Hi,

I have seen programs that say we would like to see score "above average" and some programs that place residents on probation for falling below 30th percentile. Realistically, what's considered a good score for an intern, taking the absite for the first time?

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[Chemdocx]

100%

 

[opr8n]

Realistically, >50th%
My personal goal when I was an intern was >70th%

<30th% is bad

 

[cpants]

What I don't understand is these are percentile scores right? If programs put you on probation for <30%, does that mean 30% of residents get put on probation each year?

 

[SLUser11]

What I don't understand is these are percentile scores right? If programs put you on probation for <30%, does that mean 30% of residents get put on probation each year?

Theoretically, during intern year, most of those spots below the 30th percentile are taken up by designated and non-designated prelims, who either don't care about the test (designated), or don't possess the skill set to do well on it (non-designated). That being said, this is a stereotype, and there are plenty of prelims that outperform their categorical counterparts.

Another theory is that even among categoricals, the low scores should be concentrated at small, weak community programs with a poor curriculum. There's no reason someone talented enough to match at a prestigious university program should struggle with a standardized test.

That being said, some programs don't prepare the residents adequately for the test, and others don't place enough emphasis on the test. I know of at least one "Top 10" program where the residents routinely score poorly on the exam (heard second-hand from one of them at a conference)...ironically, that program has actually published an ABSITE study manual.😀

 

[cpants]

Theoretically, during intern year, most of those spots below the 30th percentile are taken up by designated and non-designated prelims, who either don't care about the test (designated), or don't possess the skill set to do well on it (non-designated). That being said, this is a stereotype, and there are plenty of prelims that outperform their categorical counterparts.

Another theory is that even among categoricals, the low scores should be concentrated at small, weak community programs with a poor curriculum. There's no reason someone talented enough to match at a prestigious university program should struggle with a standardized test.

That being said, some programs don't prepare the residents adequately for the test, and others don't place enough emphasis on the test. I know of at least one "Top 10" program where the residents routinely score poorly on the exam (heard second-hand from one of them at a conference)...ironically, that program has actually published an ABSITE study manual.😀

Makes sense for the interns that the prelims would score lower. But after pgy2 there are no prelims. What about the senior absite? 30% will still be below the 30th percentile by definition. You are saying lesser programs don't care what you score and likely these residents are concentrated in those programs?

 

[45408]

Makes sense for the interns that the prelims would score lower. But after pgy2 there are no prelims. What about the senior absite? 30% will still be below the 30th percentile by definition. You are saying lesser programs don't care what you score and likely these residents are concentrated in those programs?

If your program cares a lot about how you do, you'll study hard. If your program says nothing to you about it, even if you do poorly, then what's the motivation to study for that one test?

 

[DrNick Riviera]

FYI. For anyone who read the new ACGME standards in the NEJM article, the emphasis will start to be placed more on percent correct, rather than the percentile score.

 

[SLUser11]

Makes sense for the interns that the prelims would score lower. But after pgy2 there are no prelims. What about the senior absite? 30% will still be below the 30th percentile by definition. You are saying lesser programs don't care what you score and likely these residents are concentrated in those programs?

Oh, I don't believe my statements above are accurate...just the stereotype. In my opinion, things are more evenly distributed, and 30% of your surgery buddies do poorly on the ABSITE every year.

However, as highlighted in the graphs from Post #104 from this thread, 30th percentile means you got 60-70% of the questions right....which shouldn't be that hard to do. I think it's completely fair to have 30th percentile (or 35th for that matter) be a cutoff for academic probation. It shows the resident that you're not f-ing around.

On the flipside of that, I believe incentives are important as well. My old program director would take us out to a very nice group dinner once a year if we scored above 80th percentile....and whoever got the high score got to choose the restaurant. Also, a score above 50th percentile was required for moonlighting privileges.

 

[opr8n]

So where i was a resident, Below 30% percentile got to write out a paragraph to every question they got wrong and got red flagged on their file and watched closer by the powers that be. The positive incentive was that there was a cash reward for the highest junior and senior absite score.

I think absite scores matter as it is a great primer for the QE. As shown above, those people below 30th% have a higher failure rate on the QE.

The thing about percwentile scores that are great is that it allows you to see how well you are doing compared to your class peers throughout the country and kinda where you rank nationally. What is does abad job with is assessing your true performace that that exam. On the senior exam the bell curve is sooo steep that 10q or 5% of the total test questions could change your percentile score by >20% or more.

My goal was to get 80% of the questions right. If you do that consistently, your percentile score will always be over 50th%ile and usually much higher.