So when should I call it quit?

Started by PTPuser
Get help with your application

Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.

Browse articles Compare schools My application plan Read Interview Feedback
Practice for interviews Ask an Advisor
PTPuser

PTPuser

DPM, FACFAS, WAP
7+ Year Member
I've been here for years. Went offline for a bit for my mental health and to just fight through residency.

I'm not going to rehash everything. This field sucks and I made the wrong decision. Will be graduating in June 2027, been job hunting and there's literally nothing of value. Got a job offer from a PE and I don't think I even want it cause if you saw the contract, you would cough up blood too.

My question is, when should I call it quit?...I have over 400K of debt, previous trade that will put me close to 100K if I go back. I hated it but at least my hours will be nice, less stress, better for the family but tough on my body.

I'm not looking for pity party or for people to flame me about my thoughts and decisions, but essentially wanna know when you yourself would call it quit and move on?

I don't hate podiatry and the work that we do. I just hate this lack of reward for all this work. Poor job opportunity, poor location, poor reimbursement... I don't think it's worth dragging my family out any further.
 
Only podiatry can get you out of podiatry. It is the hole and the shovel. Stop posting. Cowboy up. You've literally only experienced the stick, never the carrot. Yes, the carrot is smaller than it should be. Your first job won't be your last. I ate a $45,000 haircut to leave a partnership and be free of a loser. I don't even think I've mentioned it here (?) because what would be the point. Save money. He who has the gold makes the rules. In the end you'll either be another podiatrist who hates podiatry and the APMA or perhaps another 70 year old DPM who can't put the nipper down and is still going to APMA conferences in retirement.
 
I’m not sure what to tell you, I get the podiatry management magazines sent to my home. Not sure how/why they got my address. but they do. And for some reason I opened this months instead of throwing it away.

To my surprise I saw an article about the decline in students and recruitment crisis and a ton of old podiatrists and new were interviewed and everyone agreed podiatry sucks.

So yes it’s pretty wide known that podiatry sucks.

Maybe you should quit. Do what’s best for you. Those of us still in it have made a career out of it somehow but most are looking for ways to get out or the days we dream of getting out.
 
PTPuser said:
I have over 400K of debt, previous trade that will put me close to 100K if I go back.
Click to expand...

Am I reading this correctly? You’re asking if you should be a podiatrist for 150k (or whatever the crappy PE offer is) vs going back to a manual labor trade job for 100k?
 
It’s getting harder and harder every year with the rising cost of living and inflation. Meanwhile, reimbursement keeps getting cut. ( I think tomorrow is CMS final rule for 25 mod..)

Imagine graduating with $400k in student loans at 9% interest. That’s $36k in interest alone per year.

Now assume you get a PP job making $150k.

Under the new RAP plan, you’re looking at $1,250 a month for 30 years unless you aggressively pay off.

You will end up paying $450k over 30 years and still have roughly $382k left to be forgiven. Depending on the tax laws at that time, you could also get hit with a massive tax bill on the forgiven amount.

Unfortunately, most pre-pods don’t think about any of this when they sign up for podiatry school. Or they think they gonna make 446k? Or school tell them they gonna make 446k?

I’ve seen students who drop out with over $200k in debt. No degree, no career, and financially ruined for life.

Then you have the ones who actually “made it” through 4 years of school and 3 years of residency, only to end up making $120-150k at some PE group and still barely getting by.

Pre pod really needs to understand what they’re getting themselves into. However, I don’t think they care because they think they gonna become a “surgeon” with 2.7 gpa.
 
Podiatry is at its worst in the last year of residency and the first 2-3 years after residency. Once you get a steady income the depression wears off. It will be a struggle and nobody should go into podiatry but it is too late at this point unless you can get something that pays better.
 
PTPuser said:
I've been here for years. Went offline for a bit for my mental health and to just fight through residency.

I'm not going to rehash everything. This field sucks and I made the wrong decision. Will be graduating in June 2027, been job hunting and there's literally nothing of value. Got a job offer from a PE and I don't think I even want it cause if you saw the contract, you would cough up blood too.

My question is, when should I call it quit?...I have over 400K of debt, previous trade that will put me close to 100K if I go back. I hated it but at least my hours will be nice, less stress, better for the family but tough on my body.

I'm not looking for pity party or for people to flame me about my thoughts and decisions, but essentially wanna know when you yourself would call it quit and move on?

I don't hate podiatry and the work that we do. I just hate this lack of reward for all this work. Poor job opportunity, poor location, poor reimbursement... I don't think it's worth dragging my family out any further.
Click to expand...
So sorry broken podiatry workplace
 
I’m in a similar position. Earlier in residency. It’s a grind no matter what you do. I want to leave. But after sending out some job applications reality hits that most career options suck right now. Hell , even trying to get a device rep job is near impossible without connections. And no the DPM degree DOES NOT make it easier to get a job as a rep. Tech is hard, finance is hard… the only path that could be worth it is to go back to school to be a real doctor and bank on matching into a high paying specialty.

So I feel your pain but I’ve explored a lot of options and unfortunately there’s none that I’ve found. If anyone has any suggestions I’d love to hear it.
 
soleproprietor said:
I’m in a similar position. Earlier in residency. It’s a grind no matter what you do. I want to leave. But after sending out some job applications reality hits that most career options suck right now. Hell , even trying to get a device rep job is near impossible without connections. And no the DPM degree DOES NOT make it easier to get a job as a rep. Tech is hard, finance is hard… the only path that could be worth it is to go back to school to be a real doctor and bank on matching into a high paying specialty.

So I feel your pain but I’ve explored a lot of options and unfortunately there’s none that I’ve found. If anyone has any suggestions I’d love to hear it.
Click to expand...
Also everyone is hyping up the trades but in reality most trades you’d have to back to trade school with kids 10-15 years younger than you and start out at 50-70k per year. For every one blue collar millionaire there are hundreds breaking their backs barely getting by
 
All this to say, I feel the same way. Financially f^%#<€. Regretting my decision. Trapped. But there’s no real alternative unless again, anybody has suggestions.
 
Don’t give up hope. There are good opportunities out there. Myself and 2 coresidents landed hospital jobs first job. Graduated from a solid but not an elite residency 2 years ago.

If you are willing to live anywhere I think you can most likely find a decent opportunity. I’d recommend being willing to go anywhere for your first job and once you build experience you will have more to negotiate with. Other option is to open your own practice as some of the posters on here have done. I believe most pods will do well after 2-3 years.
 
p100 said:
Podiatry is at its worst in the last year of residency and the first 2-3 years after residency. Once you get a steady income the depression wears off. It will be a struggle and nobody should go into podiatry but it is too late at this point unless you can get something that pays better.
Click to expand...
I would agree with this.^^^

The cold reality sets in once you get out there and have to make your "attending budget." That is when it really sets in. During residency, fellowship if you do one, and in the early attending years, you can just keep pretending it'll get better soon. It probably will not get better. Still, keep applying for hospital jobs every day anyways. It only takes one big break to make a huge difference.

Once you relaize it probably won't get better, if you have a normal 150k-200k podiatry job, then you will realize that you either:
  1. Aren't going to live the "doctor life" you - or your family - likely imagined and/or
  2. Won't retire until a fairly late age if you do try to live high on the hog.
And sure, you can make the minimum student loan pays (#5 post above) and/or borrow to live a higher lifestyle with bigger house/cars/schooling/etc on credit, but I'd highly recommend against that stuff. Those only hurt you in the long run and keep interest compounding against you. If you're like most podiatrists, you'll eventually make more, and then the debt has to be addressed, so the bury-your-head-in-the-sand method seldom "works." The best thing to do is buckle down, embrace frugality, use your money to hit student loans and make investments hard as your first priority with each check you get, and just do the best you can. If you are main - or solo - breadwinner, then you likely need to have a real convo with your partner about expectations and financial reality of the debt. They will see other doctor families and wonder why you are living more like a nurse - or lower. Always keep looking for ways to increase your podiatry income (hospital job, solo PP, whatever).

...As was said, you'll make more working in podiatry than anything else. It is not great work, but it does ok financially and is fairly easy physically. Remember that about 1 in 4 people become dead/disabled before retirement - but podiatry is lower than avg. You'll see friends or family with torn knee, bad back, MVA, eye strain from tech jobs, radiation/cancer, autoimmune, etc etc that hit them during working age... but podiatry's relatively low risk on all that ortho stuff. Even a job with ulcer funk and toenail dust still has an upside.

Also said above, ALL of us have fantasized about leaving podiatry for a different career (it's clearly one of the lowest pay/prestige/demand of medicine... for many reasons), yet we're all still doing it for practical reasons and money reasons... until we have enough to be done. Sad but true. GL 👍
 
Last edited:
Stop worrying about paying off loans fast. This is not suitable for most new grads in podiatry, that’s for real doctors. And I emphasize the most part because most of new grads are not getting jobs paying over 250k.

Poor paying specialties for MDs and DOs have loan forgiveness jobs openings still begging them to apply for it. We have to compete for those with 100 people applying to every VA job opening. No matter what white coat investor says we are not the same.

Just do the RAP(E) plan for student loans, worst case scenario it’s 10% of your income. This is doable and enough to live off of even in a crappy job until you find a better job where you can make more. Or just ride it out for 25 years and save for the tax bomb after it’s forgiven.


You know what my 10 year standard plan monthly payment after graduation was? $4500. Imagine living life paying that for 10 years straight on top of your house, your food, your family, etc. You already wasted a decade of your life on school. Don’t waste another decade living horribly during your prime of life.

I’d rather just pay the 10% on a pay as you earn plan. Same thing people tithe to a church
 
Last edited:
Mostly good advice here. I'd add a couple things. First the hard truth, if you have 400k in loans you're likely going to need to cut back in lifestyle for awhile from what you've already been living. Even with a young family, prioritize spending time with them doing cheaper things. Cook at home. No vacations. I know it's hard but they'll appreciate the life you're building. My 2 oldest boys actually prefer sharing a room over the 2 rooms they have now. I'm just saying that they care way less about the nice life than we think they do.

The good news is podiatry can provide a great life. We are the butt of the jokes and or a dumping ground at times, but we have minimal call and typically can go home at a normal time. Like others said, be sure to take the best job (preferably hospital based) you can get no matter what town. Treat it like a fellowship. Then you can search for a better location from a position of strength and not desperation. When I finished residency it was 2020. I had to take a nursing home nail gig and, despite my young family, lived half my days in hotel rooms driving 4hrs to some POS nursing home for 20 grumpy old people that complained I was interrupting their bingo. I busted my butt for 150k/yr for almost 2yrs before I was offered a job somewhere else. I only got found because of the nail job and that job led to my current job where I clear 500k. I hated my life during those early years and would curse myself as I drove through the snow in rural wherever so I could make a buck. But just do the best you can, keep studying and going to conferences and networking, and eventually things will improve. There's many opportunities to make good money in this job once you get a little experience. Just grind and stay positive.
 
Forcewielder said:
Mostly good advice here. I'd add a couple things. First the hard truth, if you have 400k in loans you're likely going to need to cut back in lifestyle for awhile from what you've already been living. Even with a young family, prioritize spending time with them doing cheaper things. Cook at home. No vacations. I know it's hard but they'll appreciate the life you're building. My 2 oldest boys actually prefer sharing a room over the 2 rooms they have now. I'm just saying that they care way less about the nice life than we think they do.

The good news is podiatry can provide a great life. We are the butt of the jokes and or a dumping ground at times, but we have minimal call and typically can go home at a normal time. Like others said, be sure to take the best job (preferably hospital based) you can get no matter what town. Treat it like a fellowship. Then you can search for a better location from a position of strength and not desperation. When I finished residency it was 2020. I had to take a nursing home nail gig and, despite my young family, lived half my days in hotel rooms driving 4hrs to some POS nursing home for 20 grumpy old people that complained I was interrupting their bingo. I busted my butt for 150k/yr for almost 2yrs before I was offered a job somewhere else. I only got found because of the nail job and that job led to my current job where I clear 500k. I hated my life during those early years and would curse myself as I drove through the snow in rural wherever so I could make a buck. But just do the best you can, keep studying and going to conferences and networking, and eventually things will improve. There's many opportunities to make good money in this job once you get a little experience. Just grind and stay positive.
Click to expand...
Your boys are lucky to have you.
 
I think sometimes I need to just man up and grind out the rest of residency and “make it happen”. Go through the mud for another ten years and then maybe be able to live a middle class life (own a home, invest significantly etc) but then I see my friends who work in basic finance type jobs nothing exciting and they make NOW close to what I will make as an attending!! 130-150k! Without the debt and **** we go through.
 
soleproprietor said:
I think sometimes I need to just man up and grind out the rest of residency and “make it happen”. Go through the mud for another ten years and then maybe be able to live a middle class life (own a home, invest significantly etc) but then I see my friends who work in basic finance type jobs nothing exciting and they make NOW close to what I will make as an attending!! 130-150k! Without the debt and **** we go through.
Click to expand...
To be fair though some throw themselves off a roof if the stock market takes a dive. We do have a bit more job security in medicine
 
soleproprietor said:
I think sometimes I need to just man up and grind out the rest of residency and “make it happen”. Go through the mud for another ten years and then maybe be able to live a middle class life (own a home, invest significantly etc) but then I see my friends who work in basic finance type jobs nothing exciting and they make NOW close to what I will make as an attending!! 130-150k! Without the debt and **** we go through.
Click to expand...
Grass is always greener. Being a finance bro sounds insufferable to me. I had a corporate job before I went back to school to do podiatry and I don't regret ditching that career in favor of opening up the possibility to be my own boss. Almost there finally.
 
Neighbor works in finance corpo.

Imagine getting brought on to make a difference. You pull all the numbers, stats, strategies. Multiple calls at the whim of your boss. Crunch all the numbers for opening new stores and aggressive buy overs. Tell them its too aggressive, they need to tone back, they're already still up.

Only to face a board that keeps asking you why they made only 453 million instead of the projected 500 million.

You could be extremely competent and still be the butt end of a bunch of people hating your life despite earning 5-10x what a new grad podiatrist makes.

I used to look at people driving their expensive cars and wonder how they could possibly look so depressed. I get it now.

Just saying.

Grind it out. Make enough to provide a good living for yourself and your family. Actively plan an exit strategy soon as you start.
 
Weirdy said:
Neighbor works in finance corpo.

Imagine getting brought on to make a difference. You pull all the numbers, stats, strategies. Multiple calls at the whim of your boss. Crunch all the numbers for opening new stores and aggressive buy overs. Tell them its too aggressive, they need to tone back, they're already still up.

Only to face a board that keeps asking you why they made only 453 million instead of the projected 500 million.

You could be extremely competent and still be the butt end of a bunch of people hating your life despite earning 5-10x what a new grad podiatrist makes.

I used to look at people driving their expensive cars and wonder how they could possibly look so depressed. I get it now.

Just saying.

Grind it out. Make enough to provide a good living for yourself and your family. Actively plan an exit strategy soon as you start.
Click to expand...
Great advice everyone. My only concern is like you said. Plan an exit strategy. If a bunion pays 500$ and I can go learn plumbing or other trade skill and charge cash pay 500$ for a lot of plumbing fixes why not switch now and go learn a trade?
 
soleproprietor said:
Great advice everyone. My only concern is like you said. Plan an exit strategy. If a bunion pays 500$ and I can go learn plumbing or other trade skill and charge cash pay 500$ for a lot of plumbing fixes why not switch now and go learn a trade?
Click to expand...
My body can't keep up with plumbing.

That's it.

If I was 10 years younger sure go til I build up with others working under me and just manage.

I can sit in an air conditioned office and trim nails longer than I can start a plumbing empire from scratch at my current age.
 
soleproprietor said:
Great advice everyone. My only concern is like you said. Plan an exit strategy. If a bunion pays 500$ and I can go learn plumbing or other trade skill and charge cash pay 500$ for a lot of plumbing fixes why not switch now and go learn a trade?
Click to expand...
Think we’ve been over this before, but the reason you see 70 year old surgeons and not 70 year old plumbers is because tradespeople’s bodies begin to fail them at mid-life while surgeons can keep going if they want.

Tradespeople have a career trajectory like athletes— try to make as much as you can while you’re young because your body will limit the longevity of your career.
 
soleproprietor said:
I think sometimes I need to just man up and grind out the rest of residency and “make it happen”. Go through the mud for another ten years and then maybe be able to live a middle class life (own a home, invest significantly etc) but then I see my friends who work in basic finance type jobs nothing exciting and they make NOW close to what I will make as an attending!! 130-150k! Without the debt and **** we go through.
Click to expand...
Yeah those basic finance jobs are not going to be a thing soon....be glad you have a skill
 
Yeah, grass is greener. I was hanging out with my lawyer friend from college. First time he hit $100k was at 40. Our other buddy quit to start a firm around that point and may still be in the red. The Harvard Law guy in our class never made it past being a prosecutor, never got to $100k, and got fired from his job fighting corruption for - you guessed it, corruption.

Our finance bro barely made it through college but has parents with major connections so he’s some kind of senior VP at a major firm. Not everybody has an 8 figure trust fund or folks with high level political ties.

My FIL in a trade owned his own company from a relatively young age so he didn’t have much actual labor for years. Still mostly broke down before 60 (granted he and I both still believe those can be good jobs). His dad was legitimately a ditch digger back when that was a thing, so he definitely moved up.

Heck, dentists break down physically from busting different crusties. They may have the worst ergonomics of any health field.
 
soleproprietor said:
I think sometimes I need to just man up and grind out the rest of residency and “make it happen”. Go through the mud for another ten years and then maybe be able to live a middle class life (own a home, invest significantly etc) but then I see my friends who work in basic finance type jobs nothing exciting and they make NOW close to what I will make as an attending!! 130-150k! Without the debt and **** we go through.
Click to expand...
While podiatry does suck, at least we can all qualify for physician home loans. No money down no PMI. I would not have been able to get my first 2 homes without it
 
Just trying to get my finances in order. The biggest thing keeping me here is the student loan burden I carry. But I also feel like in my specific location 150k is what I will make as a podiatrist maybe less. So I’m considering a switch, does anyone know if I were to switch professions could I still take advantage of income based repayment with my student loans? Chat gpt and the federal aid website aren’t very clear on this.
So if I were going to switch to a trade or maybe even a different white collar job would I still qualify for IBR? Or do I have to stay in residency/medicine to qualify for that
 
soleproprietor said:
Just trying to get my finances in order. The biggest thing keeping me here is the student loan burden I carry. But I also feel like in my specific location 150k is what I will make as a podiatrist maybe less. So I’m considering a switch, does anyone know if I were to switch professions could I still take advantage of income based repayment with my student loans? Chat gpt and the federal aid website aren’t very clear on this.
So if I were going to switch to a trade or maybe even a different white collar job would I still qualify for IBR? Or do I have to stay in residency/medicine to qualify for that
Click to expand...
The issue with providing an answer is that the answer is going to change through presidential administrations.

But yes, you'll qualify for IBR. If the current system remains intact, you'll get to make payments for 30 years and then possibly face a tax bomb.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.