socialism

[emergentmd]

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It always seems like most of those in poverty continue to use the same excuse that keeps them in poverty and those who succeed always find ways to succeed no matter what obstacles are put in front of them.

This is coming from a 1st gen immigrant who didn't have a nickel to buy a piece of candy growing up and eating ramen through med school.

Those who make excuses will continue to make excuses. The more they get, the more they will waste. You can't make someone work hard. It takes hard work to improve yourself. There is a reason most obese people stay obese. Hard work is.... well hard. I would dare to say that most Americans would not be willing to sacrifice and work as hard as I did to go from poverty to top 1% NW in the same generation.

BTW, I have been to multiple countries in Europe, Asia, S. America and I will tell you with confidence that the US is the best place to live and not even close. Switzerland, Iceland, Italy, France, Japan, Spain..... All kind of stink overall compared to America.

 

[mille125]

The lower 50% pays essentially nothing towards taxes. They receive more than they put in. They have no skins in the game. The top 10% pay 70% of taxes. I guess we should tax the rich more so the bottom 50% can have more and still have no skin in the game.

This just sounds like a great plan. Lets take more incentive out of the bottom 50% to pull themselves up.

Walk the streets of America and Switzerland...... No amount of money will change the health metrics. If you forced all Americans to walk as much and eat less McDonalds, then you will fix the gap. Keep pouring $$$ does no good.

You may have missed my other post right before you. I pose the same question to you. My response is in bold below.


You have an interesting perspective. My question for you: if you take the amount of payroll taxes that one of your employees pay as a portion of their salary and compare it to the amount of total tax that let's say Donald Trump pays vs his income...who pays a higher percentage?

Or maybe you don't think that payroll tax is tax..

 

[mille125]

The lower 50% pays essentially nothing towards taxes. They receive more than they put in. They have no skins in the game. The top 10% pay 70% of taxes. I guess we should tax the rich more so the bottom 50% can have more and still have no skin in the game.

This just sounds like a great plan. Lets take more incentive out of the bottom 50% to pull themselves up.

Walk the streets of America and Switzerland...... No amount of money will change the health metrics. If you forced all Americans to walk as much and eat less McDonalds, then you will fix the gap. Keep pouring $$$ does no good.

You say the bottom 50% pay nothing towards taxes and receive more than they put in. Assuming that you are speaking strictly of federal income taxes because of have already mentioned payroll taxes which blows up your argument. But lets only look at income taxes. Here is Donald Trump over 6 years. This is published so feel free to fact check.

• 2015: Paid no federal income tax directly

• 2016: Paid $750

• 2017: Paid $750

• 2018: Paid nearly $1 million

2019: Paid more than $133,000

• 2020: Paid nothing and claimed a refund of $5.47 million

So that is negative 4 plus milllion. There are thousands of "Donald Trumps" out there. They obviously pay no payroll taxes. They also get bailouts, government contracts, and other incentives. We use public money to fund medical research and then we allow wealthy individuals to get patents to just charge everyone more for prescription drugs. The internet was a public project but Bezos gets extreme benefit even though the public funded it.

But none of this bothers you. You direct your ire to the bottom 50% who are fighting over crumbs. Sure there is some abuse but it pales in comparison to this. But nothing from you on Trump's negative 4 million dollar tax bill, right?

 

[mille125]

It always seems like most of those in poverty continue to use the same excuse that keeps them in poverty and those who succeed always find ways to succeed no matter what obstacles are put in front of them.

This is coming from a 1st gen immigrant who didn't have a nickel to buy a piece of candy growing up and eating ramen through med school.

Those who make excuses will continue to make excuses. The more they get, the more they will waste. You can't make someone work hard. It takes hard work to improve yourself. There is a reason most obese people stay obese. Hard work is.... well hard. I would dare to say that most Americans would not be willing to sacrifice and work as hard as I did to go from poverty to top 1% NW in the same generation.

BTW, I have been to multiple countries in Europe, Asia, S. America and I will tell you with confidence that the US is the best place to live and not even close. Switzerland, Iceland, Italy, France, Japan, Spain..... All kind of stink overall compared to America.

Kudos to you. You have beaten the odds especially with transferring from abject poverty to the top one percent in the same generation. I am not an immigrant but I have the same story. I received Pell grants to attend college and my family frequently brought home under $1000 a month. Like you and nearly everyone on this forum, I am in the top 10% of earners at minimum. I say all of this to say that I understand where you are coming from. It is easy to conclude that those that do not succeed are just lazy but that neglect institutional factors such as the concept of institutional racism. You should look it up as it might explain a few things.

You are implying or actually stating that people are obese from lack of hard work versus it being a disease. Like anything, there are diet and exercise components but it is hard to hear an educated person, especially a doctor, imply that everyone who is obese is just lazy. That is not looking at the science. That science recognizes that weight regulation is driven by a combination of genetic, metabolic, environmental, and hormonal factors, rather than being a simple result of lifestyle choices or a lack of willpower.

With all of that said, congrats on your achievement.

 

[mille125]

It always seems like most of those in poverty continue to use the same excuse that keeps them in poverty and those who succeed always find ways to succeed no matter what obstacles are put in front of them.

This is coming from a 1st gen immigrant who didn't have a nickel to buy a piece of candy growing up and eating ramen through med school.

Those who make excuses will continue to make excuses. The more they get, the more they will waste. You can't make someone work hard. It takes hard work to improve yourself. There is a reason most obese people stay obese. Hard work is.... well hard. I would dare to say that most Americans would not be willing to sacrifice and work as hard as I did to go from poverty to top 1% NW in the same generation.

BTW, I have been to multiple countries in Europe, Asia, S. America and I will tell you with confidence that the US is the best place to live and not even close. Switzerland, Iceland, Italy, France, Japan, Spain..... All kind of stink overall compared to America.

You may be right but it is interesting that none of the top 10 livable cities are in the US. They are all in Europe, Australia, or Canada (Vancouver made it). None of the bottom 10 cities are in the US either.

What US city do you think is the best to live in? I have travelled around and visited a lot of cities. I would say San Diego or Seattle are my favorites but they both get high dings for affordability.

Below is the list. If you have lived in any of these places do you think that any US city is more liveable?

• Copenhagen, Denmark

• Vienna, Austria

• Melbourne, Australia

• Sydney, Australia

• Zurich, Switzerland

• Geneva, Switzerland

• Osaka, Japan

• Adelaide, Australia

• Vancouver, Canada

• Tokyo, Japan

 

[clubdeac]

You may have missed my other post right before you. I pose the same question to you. My response is in bold below.


You have an interesting perspective. My question for you: if you take the amount of payroll taxes that one of your employees pay as a portion of their salary and compare it to the amount of total tax that let's say Donald Trump pays vs his income...who pays a higher percentage?

Or maybe you don't think that payroll tax is tax..

Very few people think of payroll tax as a tax on the employee. Most everyone sees it as a tax on the employer. But you’re right, at the end of the day it really comes out of the employees paycheck

Do other countries not have this tax

 

[clubdeac]

You say the bottom 50% pay nothing towards taxes and receive more than they put in. Assuming that you are speaking strictly of federal income taxes because of have already mentioned payroll taxes which blows up your argument. But lets only look at income taxes. Here is Donald Trump over 6 years. This is published so feel free to fact check.

• 2015: Paid no federal income tax directly
• 2016: Paid $750
• 2017: Paid $750
• 2018: Paid nearly $1 million

2019: Paid more than $133,000

• 2020: Paid nothing and claimed a refund of $5.47 million

So that is negative 4 plus milllion. There are thousands of "Donald Trumps" out there. They obviously pay no payroll taxes. They also get bailouts, government contracts, and other incentives. We use public money to fund medical research and then we allow wealthy individuals to get patents to just charge everyone more for prescription drugs. The internet was a public project but Bezos gets extreme benefit even though the public funded it.

But none of this bothers you. You direct your ire to the bottom 50% who are fighting over crumbs. Sure there is some abuse but it pales in comparison to this. But nothing from you on Trump's negative 4 million dollar tax bill, right?

Some abuse? Cmon…have you been living under a rock? How many billions in the Minnesota Somali fraud and Ohio and Cali assisted living and home health care scandals? Just the tip of the iceberg. Food stamp fraud is out of control as well

 

[mille125]

Very few people think of payroll tax as a tax on the employee. Most everyone sees it as a tax on the employer. But you’re right, at the end of the day it really comes out of the employees paycheck

Do other countries not have this tax

Almost every country has payroll tax. Generally it is much higher in Europe but they have universal healthcare and "free" college. Its 20 percent in Germany and I think 40 percent in France

It is a tax no matter if people see it that way or not. In the US yes the employer pays 7.65% but so does the employee.

My point is that people keep saying the the bottom 50% pay nothing but if you include payroll tax (which you should) they pay more than most millionaires as a percentage of income. Multimillionaires usuallly get dividends from LLCs or capital gains and pay very very little in payroll tax compared to income.

Your MA making 50K per year paid $3825 in taxes. As I illustrated Trump paid less than that in total tax in 4 of the 6 years that I listed.

So dont give me any story about the bottom 50% not pulling their tax weight. You should be belly aching about the one percenters. I am all for deductions but should someone who makes as much as Trump pay $750 in tax?

 

[Lakers$]

True our health system is broken however I have not spoken to one person who has dual citizenship in the US and France, Italy, England or Spain that would prefer to get their healthcare in Europe. Every one without reservation says healthcare there pales in comparison

This is facts

 

[Lakers$]

Some abuse? Cmon…have you been living under a rock? How many billions in the Minnesota Somali fraud and Ohio and Cali assisted living scandals? Just the tip of the iceberg. Food stamp fraud is out of control as well

This is facts too. Food stamps fraud in Cali is crazy. There is plenty of fraud everywhere. But I’m starting to think our society is base on fraud lol. Look at all these job were people don’t do anything.

 

[clubdeac]

Almost every country has payroll tax. Generally it is much higher in Europe but they have universal healthcare and "free" college. Its 20 percent in Germany and I think 40 percent in France

It is a tax no matter if people see it that way or not. In the US yes the employer pays 7.65% but so does the employee.

My point is that people keep saying the the bottom 50% pay nothing but if you include payroll tax (which you should) they pay more than most millionaires as a percentage of income. Multimillionaires usuallly get dividends from LLCs or capital gains and pay very very little in payroll tax compared to income.

Your MA making 50K per year paid $3825 in taxes. As I illustrated Trump paid less than that in total tax in 4 of the 6 years that I listed.

So dont give me any story about the bottom 50% not pulling their tax weight. You should be belly aching about the one percenters. I am all for deductions but should someone who makes as much as Trump pay $750 in tax?

Your example just supports my point that the bottom 50% in other countries pay a much larger share of total tax revenue than they do here in the US. The 4% number is 4% of total tax revenue so it’s already accounted for. Again, the US has one of the most progressive tax codes in the world

This graph may help you understand better

 

[Pain Applicant1]

Outside of my realm so I did a little background.

Sounds great but based in Tennessee which is fine. Many former students in forums say that journeyman are not interested in teaching. They also say the their is surprising instability in jobs delayed payrolls and mass layoffs during slow seasons. For such a "good deal" it gets surprisingly low reviews. Just reading to you what workers have said. Not sure if I would pack up and move temporarily for this. It sounds risky.

So is it an opportunity yes..

Is it as you describe...no

Not surprising...I don't think you mean it but nearly all of your posts are misleading.

That's one opportunity out of many and it took me about 30 seconds to find. There are plenty of others.

The kids today complain because they expect everything to be handed to them gently. That's not how these industries work. You have to let go of your ego and do the ****ty work. I'm a hopkins/harvard edumacated physician and I can let my ego go so these young kids can too. That's how i learned these trades. I spent time with tradesmen and sucked it up until i earned their respect. Now, I know their trades better than many of them do.

Bottom line, there is more opportunity today than ever. If people from all over the world, who come from far more impoverished areas than any American does, can find work and success here, there is absolutely no excuse at all, for the most part, that an American can't find a job and succeed. It comes down to one's own volition and inherent capabilities.

As predicted, you again ignored the very straightforward question that I asked you.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

Yes, why were all those workers in slacking off in the 1930s when they could have moved to California to pick oranges?

I don't get your point. Are you referring to the Great Depression?

25% unemployment vs 4% unemployment
You did read The Grapes of Wrath, right?
You do know about the Great Migration, right?

 

[mille125]

Some abuse? Cmon…have you been living under a rock? How many billions in the Minnesota Somali fraud and Ohio and Cali assisted living scandals? Just the tip of the iceberg. Food stamp fraud is out of control as well

Look I am not supporting fraud. If fraud was committed they offenders should be prosecuted. The biggest one from what you listed is the Minnesota Somali fraud which was orchestrated and was a COVID 19 fraud.

With you are missing is the scope. Everything together that you have mentioned is in the millions up to around a billion. Even though that is no number to sneeze at, the things that I am discussing are in the Trillions and they are surprisingly never even discussed by right leaning "budget hawks"

1) Billionaires and 1 percenters receive roughly 1-2 trillion in targeted tax break over 10 years. This does not include billions more in corporate subsidies that enriches their assets.)
2) Estate tax exemptions are worth at least 200 billion in lost revenue. It was raised to 15 million per person. 1) and 2) are courtesy of the big beautiful bill.
3) Billionaires as I said earlier hold their wealth in corporate structures. Pass thru deductions are another 700 billion. Bonus depreciation 500 billion. Tax Shelters 50 billion.
4) Then you have the Trump strategies all of which is legal but we get about 4 Trillion in personal wealth that is never taxed. Billionaires take out low interest loans on their stock portfolios instead of drawing salaries. The public also subsidizes money that a billionaire donates to a private foundation or charity. Who knows how much that it.
5) I cannot calculate the benefit for corporate bailouts and billionaire use of public property, government contracts, etc. but it is worth also mentioning.


It is astounding to me the the right will talk about welfare moms and somali refugees all day long but they say nothing about what I just wrote. As bad as those fraud schemes are that you mentioned, they are a drop in the bucket versus what I am mentioning. It is millions vs trillions. Do you know how big of a difference that is?

 

[mille125]

That's one opportunity out of many and it took me about 30 seconds to find. There are plenty of others.

The kids today complain because they expect everything to be handed to them gently. That's not how these industries work. You have to let go of your ego and do the ****ty work. I'm a hopkins/harvard edumacated physician and I can let my ego go so these young kids can too. That's how i learned these trades. I spent time with tradesmen and sucked it up until i earned their respect. Now, I know their trades better than many of them do.

Bottom line, there is more opportunity today than ever. If people from all over the world, who come from far more impoverished areas than any American does, can find work and success here, there is absolutely no excuse at all, for the most part, that an American can't find a job and succeed. It comes down to one's own volition and inherent capabilities.

As predicted, you again ignored the very straightforward question that I asked you.

What question did you ask that was unanswered?

You pose 7 or 8 at a time

 

[mille125]

Your example just supports my point that the bottom 50% in other countries pay a much larger share of total tax revenue than they do here in the US. The 4% number is 4% of total tax revenue so it’s already accounted for. Again, the US has one of the most progressive tax codes in the world

This graph may help you understand better

View attachment 422356

I dont understand your point. Every income bracket pays less tax here than in Europe but they also get "free" Healthcare and college. We charge less tax across the board

 

[callmeanesthesia]

I don't get your point. Are you referring to the Great Depression?

25% unemployment vs 4% unemployment
You did read The Grapes of Wrath, right?
You do know about the Great Migration, right?

It was a reference to Grapes of Wrath, yes. Basically that what you’re posting is marketing from the companies advertising the job and maybe it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.

 

[mille125]

It was a reference to Grapes of Wrath, yes. Basically that what you’re posting is marketing from the companies advertising the job and maybe it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.

Its not. That is clear.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

What question did you ask that was unanswered?

You pose 7 or 8 at a time

It was just one:


"I asked you this before and you refused to answer so I'll assume you'll do the same again. Are you saying that in these generationally impoverished areas, the young people are dedicated and hard-working and are lining up to learn new skills and the issues preventing them from getting out of poverty have nothing to do with their ability and behavior?"

 

[Pain Applicant1]

It was a reference to Grapes of Wrath, yes. Basically that what you’re posting is marketing from the companies advertising the job and maybe it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.

Yeah, they probably expect those who accept the offer to actually work and commit.

 

[mille125]

It was just one:


"I asked you this before and you refused to answer so I'll assume you'll do the same again. Are you saying that in these generationally impoverished areas, the young people are dedicated and hard-working and are lining up to learn new skills and the issues preventing them from getting out of poverty have nothing to do with their ability and behavior?"

Overly broad generalization but yes for some and no for others.

 

[Ducttape]

Of all those countries you mentioned, we have the most progressive tax system ever we essentially don’t tax the bottom 50%. In most of those other countries you admire, the bottom 50% pays a as much larger proportion of total taxes than the bottom 50% of the US which connect contributes about 4% of total tax revenue. If you want larger entitlement programs similar to these countries, you’ll need to add a VAT tax and make the bottom 50% contribute a higher percentage to the federal tax revenue. I know neither of these are tenable for your world view. You seem to want the best of both worlds which isn’t logical or achievable without significant changes

you actually conveniently skip out the point where those in higher tax groups also pay significantly less in taxes in the US than in other countries.

and you conveniently forgot to mention that sales tax and payroll taxes are regressive and affect the poor significantly greater than the rich.

you also didnt mention that there is a medicare tax cap, so those making over $184k pay significantly lower portion of their income in medicare taxes.

and you forgot to mention that those who are most wealthy - the top 1% - do not pay taxes at all because most of their money is not income, but comes through other mechanisms, including long term capital gains and other investment opportunities (the "buy, borrow, die tax strategy") that is never taxed.


it is also this 0.1% that owns the majority of the wealth in america.

you want to tax more the bottom 50% in the US that have $4.27 trillion wealth, while you want to reduce taxes on the 0.1% that own $25.2 trillion. not even the 1% that owns $55.3 trillion (which is 1,295% more btw)

trying to squeeze water out of a stone when there is a full gallon of Evian next to you...


please, make that make sense.....

of course here are numbers:

The Fed - Table: Distribution of Household Wealth in the U.S. since 1989

The Federal Reserve Board of Governors in Washington DC.

www.federalreserve.gov

 

[lobelsteve]

you actually conveniently skip out the point where those in higher tax groups also pay significantly less in taxes in the US than in other countries.

and you conveniently forgot to mention that sales tax and payroll taxes are regressive and affect the poor significantly greater than the rich.

you also didnt mention that there is a medicare tax cap, so those making over $184k pay significantly lower portion of their income in medicare taxes.

and you forgot to mention that those who are most wealthy - the top 1% - do not pay taxes at all because most of their money is not income, but comes through other mechanisms, including long term capital gains and other investment opportunities (the "buy, borrow, die tax strategy") that is never taxed.


it is also this 0.1% that owns the majority of the wealth in america.

you want to tax more the bottom 50% in the US that have $4.27 trillion wealth, while you want to reduce taxes on the 0.1% that own $25.2 trillion. not even the 1% that owns $55.3 trillion (which is 1,295% more btw)

trying to squeeze water out of a stone when there is a full gallon of Evian next to you...


please, make that make sense.....

of course here are numbers:

The Fed - Table: Distribution of Household Wealth in the U.S. since 1989

The Federal Reserve Board of Governors in Washington DC.

www.federalreserve.gov

Ready for the update on abolish IRS.
No deductions, no shelters.
No taxes on income under $100,000.
10% consumption tax?
20% income tax?
5% wealth tax on net worth over 15,000,000?

Neogtiate it.

 

[SSdoc33]

Ready for the update on abolish IRS.
No deductions, no shelters.
No taxes on income under $100,000.
10% consumption tax?
20% income tax?
5% wealth tax on net worth over 15,000,000?

Neogtiate it.

congress couldnt agree on 1 one those points, let alone all 5.

as much as it pains me to say this: you cant tax wealth already in the bank. that is just plain old stealing.

best option, as mentioned before is to eliminate the step up basis

 

[Ducttape]

- try to eliminate the "buy, borrow, die" strategy. make the rich become more part of the economy instead of a separate silo.

https://budgetlab.yale.edu/research/buy-borrow-die-options-reforming-tax-treatment-borrowing-against-appreciated-assets

change long term capital gains tax.

get rid of the stepped up inheritance tax.

deemed realization taxes.



- increase medicare tax on those making over $184k

- eliminate existing tax loopholes exploited by the ultra wealthy (not the average upper/middle class american but those whose material wealth allows their progeny's progeny to never be below the 0.5%)

 

[clubdeac]

you actually conveniently skip out the point where those in higher tax groups also pay significantly less in taxes in the US than in other countries.

and you conveniently forgot to mention that sales tax and payroll taxes are regressive and affect the poor significantly greater than the rich.

you also didnt mention that there is a medicare tax cap, so those making over $184k pay significantly lower portion of their income in medicare taxes.

and you forgot to mention that those who are most wealthy - the top 1% - do not pay taxes at all because most of their money is not income, but comes through other mechanisms, including long term capital gains and other investment opportunities (the "buy, borrow, die tax strategy") that is never taxed.


it is also this 0.1% that owns the majority of the wealth in america.

you want to tax more the bottom 50% in the US that have $4.27 trillion wealth, while you want to reduce taxes on the 0.1% that own $25.2 trillion. not even the 1% that owns $55.3 trillion (which is 1,295% more btw)

trying to squeeze water out of a stone when there is a full gallon of Evian next to you...


please, make that make sense.....

of course here are numbers:

The Fed - Table: Distribution of Household Wealth in the U.S. since 1989

The Federal Reserve Board of Governors in Washington DC.

www.federalreserve.gov

Your numbers are off. I’ll get you the actual numbers and please watch this brief explanation. Jessica Reidl is brilliant when it comes to fiscal and economic policies. And duct, please don’t just dismiss him/her bc he/she is trans. This is the best concise and comprehensive explanation of the problem and potential solutions I’ve seen on the internet. @mille125 definitely watch this too

Here's what would happen if we seized all the wealth from America's 800 billionaires

Don't comfort yourself with wishful thinking that millionaires and billionaires could take the entire burden of the deficit off our hands.

reason.com

Correcting the Top 10 Tax Myths

As Washington prepares for a 2025 dominated by tax policy—led by the issue of whether to extend the expiring 2017 tax cuts—the debate is likely to bring a fresh recirculation of the most common myths about the federal tax system from both the left and the right. On the one hand, the false...

manhattan.institute

 

[Ducttape]

none of those suggestions are seizing all the wealth from the rich.

and these will not fix the federal deficit.


rather, they are preventing the rich from exploiting tax loopholes that allow them to pay less - far less - than their share of taxes and to afford more appropriate services for a much greater number of americans and improve the lives of millions of them, many of them taxpayers that cannot afford basic health insurance now.


fixing the federal deficit requires fiscal responsibility that has not been seen since the Clinton administration and will most likely never be seen again. if these tax cuts just go to fund more of the military industrial complex, it will be wasted.

 

[clubdeac]

none of those suggestions are seizing all the wealth from the rich.

and these will not fix the federal deficit.


rather, they are preventing the rich from exploiting tax loopholes that allow them to pay less - far less - than their share of taxes and to afford more appropriate services for a much greater number of americans and improve the lives of millions of them, many of them taxpayers that cannot afford basic health insurance now.


fixing the federal deficit requires fiscal responsibility that has not been seen since the Clinton administration and will most likely never be seen again. if these tax cuts just go to fund more of the military industrial complex, it will be wasted.

Yes he/she agrees with much of what you say and talks about much much more than just taxing the rich. It’s actually very in-depth and well done. Watch the video. It’s so good and explains a lot

 

[mille125]

Yes he/she agrees with much of what you say and talks about much much more than just taxing the rich. It’s actually very in-depth and well done. Watch the video. It’s so good and explains a lot

But can agree that even though the bottom 50% pays little in income tax they do pay a fair share of tax as a percentage of their earnings. That was the point that I was trying to make and it seems to have agreement. I agree with ducttape on sales tax. Its less than pennies if you are ultra wealthy but it is a big deal if you are in the average income bracket.

 

[drusso]

none of those suggestions are seizing all the wealth from the rich.

and these will not fix the federal deficit.


rather, they are preventing the rich from exploiting tax loopholes that allow them to pay less - far less - than their share of taxes and to afford more appropriate services for a much greater number of americans and improve the lives of millions of them, many of them taxpayers that cannot afford basic health insurance now.


fixing the federal deficit requires fiscal responsibility that has not been seen since the Clinton administration and will most likely never be seen again. if these tax cuts just go to fund more of the military industrial complex, it will be wasted.

 

[Lakers$]

View attachment 422490

This is so accurate. Socialism is a form of communism.

You guys know what’s crazy our education system is so bad, that they don’t even teach US history the right way. I went to Hs years ago and they taught us how bad communism and socialism is, what’s tripping me out I learned it in college too. How do young people don’t get it ? I’m seeing what’s going on in New York it’s scary. My partners family own some properties i ny and there basically saying the government( mayor) wants to take over there properties.

Scary times.

 

[Ducttape]

same old right wing bull crap.

yes, a lot of americans are stupid and dumb enough to believe that socialism is communism and vice versa.


and yes, our education system is dumbed down and politically influenced to view communism as "bad", and to teach that communism and socialism are the same. that was a common Cold War right wing tactic to instill fear and distrust for some policy position they disagree with that has persisted.


thankfully no one is wishing for communism. Mamdani is not a communist.


and to be specific, we do not live in capitalism in the US. we exist (by grace of the oligarchy) in an plutocracy.

 

[mille125]

same old right wing bull crap.

yes, a lot of americans are stupid and dumb enough to believe that socialism is communism and vice versa.


and yes, our education system is dumbed down and politically influenced to view communism as "bad", and to teach that communism and socialism are the same. that was a common Cold War right wing tactic to instill fear and distrust for some policy position they disagree with that has persisted.


thankfully no one is wishing for communism. Mamdani is not a communist.


and to be specific, we do not live in capitalism in the US. we exist (by grace of the oligarchy) in an plutocracy.

Every country of the Earth's surface uses some form of socialism.

Some right wingers are just fear mongerers sometimes praying on those who dont know any better and cant decipher what is true.

 

[Lakers$]

We're taking about groups overall, not individuals but go after Granny abuelita and those who commit crime and get rid of them. Leave the workers here.

We bring in foreign doctors to practice in underserved areas and these FMGs are awful, they're almost as bad as I am. Do the same with the trades since the whole country is underserved.

Cheap labor results in things. Erie canal, pyramids, Taj mahal.....

Expensive labor changes the economy. The black plague wiped out labor, and the Lords and knights were severely impacted and resulted in a change to the feudalistic system. Do you think it'll be a good idea to have such a severe impact on our economy like that.

A labor shortage is not benign.

I agree that cheaper labor leads to these wealth gaps. All these socialist want cheap labor via immigrants and make the rich, richer. Doesn’t make sense in my head. I feel American should take on the labor and ask for more money and everything will be better economy and probably lead us away from this socialist movement

 

[Lakers$]

I agree that cheaper labor leads to these wealth gaps. All these socialist want cheap labor via immigrants and make the rich, richer. Doesn’t make sense in my head. I feel American should take on the labor and ask for more money and everything will be better economy and probably lead us away from this socialist movement

Also how do y’all feel that everything we have is made on the heads of cheap labor around the world. Look at our phones the metals they use African people are digging it for you. Leads to more pollution in the world. All our closes probably from china and from cheap labor. Just making all these companies rich. Lowkey who was the cause of this movement the left.

 

[mille125]

Also how do y’all feel that everything we have is made on the heads of cheap labor around the world. Look at our phones the metals they use African people are digging it for you. Leads to more pollution in the world. All our closes probably from china and from cheap labor. Just making all these companies rich. Lowkey who was the cause of this movement the left.

Yep the left is responsible for all ills including the high price of gas from Iran War.

Oh my mistake...that is Trump

 

[Lakers$]

Yep the left is responsible for all ills including the high price of gas from Iran War.

Oh my mistake...that is Trump

Both parties are dumbed but I feel the left over a period of time is so f up to everyone. Just look at history, who wanted slaves the democrats, who made the the crow laws democrats I can go on and on. Public school just don’t teach this anymore. But yes both parties are off the rails. For me it’s the inside trading from both sides crazy work

 

[hyperalgesia]

Both parties are dumbed but I feel the left over a period of time is so f up to everyone. Just look at history, who wanted slaves the democrats, who made the the crow laws democrats I can go on and on. Public school just don’t teach this anymore. But yes both parties are off the rails. For me it’s the inside trading from both sides crazy work

Democrats also filibustered the civil rights act in the 60s. That was long after they founded the KKK, which of course was after they lost the civil war.

History has not been kind to their policies.

DEI, men in woman sports, and COVID mandates will not be admired positions either in hindsight

 

[Ducttape]

I agree that cheaper labor leads to these wealth gaps. All these socialist want cheap labor via immigrants and make the rich, richer. Doesn’t make sense in my head. I feel American should take on the labor and ask for more money and everything will be better economy and probably lead us away from this socialist movement

Also how do y’all feel that everything we have is made on the heads of cheap labor around the world. Look at our phones the metals they use African people are digging it for you. Leads to more pollution in the world. All our closes probably from china and from cheap labor. Just making all these companies rich. Lowkey who was the cause of this movement the left.

um... you just described capitalism to a tee.

Democrats also filibustered the civil rights act in the 60s. That was long after they founded the KKK, which of course was after they lost the civil war.

History has not been kind to their policies.

DEI, men in woman sports, and COVID mandates will not be admired positions either in hindsight

this is a common trope that relies on people not knowing about southern Democrats, the Dixiecrat movement and the eventual switch of Southern Democrats in to the Republican Party in the 60s.

 

[mille125]

Democrats also filibustered the civil rights act in the 60s. That was long after they founded the KKK, which of course was after they lost the civil war.

History has not been kind to their policies.

DEI, men in woman sports, and COVID mandates will not be admired positions either in hindsight

Do you really think that the democratic party of the 60s is the same as the party now.

Do you also believe that the Republicans at the time of Lincoln are the same as the modern party?


If you don't then you need to stop the propaganda because you know better

 

[Lakers$]

Do you really think that the democratic party of the 60s is the same as the party now.

Do you also believe that the Republicans at the time of Lincoln are the same as the modern party?


If you don't then you need to stop the propaganda because you know better

We aren’t saying they are the same. We are referring to who cause the more harm throughout history. If history repeats it self then democrats going f up the joint. The path we are in seems like they will.

 

[mille125]

We aren’t saying they are the same. We are referring to who cause the more harm throughout history. If history repeats it self then democrats going f up the joint. The path we are in seems like they will.

So you like the path that we are on now with right wing Court, Republican Congress, and Republican president?

 

[mille125]

There are no democrats that have any power currently.

 

[Ducttape]

We aren’t saying they are the same. We are referring to who cause the more harm throughout history. If history repeats it self then democrats going f up the joint. The path we are in seems like they will.

those dems, f up the joint during the oil crisis causing the 70s recession

oh wait, that was Nixon.


the democrats surely caused the 81-82 recession.

snap. that was Reagan.


oh oh the Great Recession. yeah Dems messed that up without a doubt

sigh. Bush.



covid recession was definitely due to them dems!

nope. trump.



of all the major recessions in the past 50 years, only the dot com crash was during a democrat administration, Clinton's.

 

[clubdeac]

Thanks to their new platform released two weeks ago, we now know what the Democratic Socialists end game is, because they've laid it out step by step. Welcome to the U.S.S.A. comrades.

"Workers Deserve More," drafted between April and June by a committee established through DSA's 2025 National Convention, was formally launched on July 14. Here are some of the main points:

📍 Abolish Institutions: Eliminating the U.S. Senate and replacing the presidency and the Supreme Court with congressional leadership roles.

📍 Voting Changes: Replacing the Electoral College with a national popular vote and granting voting rights to noncitizens and individuals with criminal convictions.

📍 System Overhaul: Transitioning from a two-party system to a multi-party democracy.

📍 Public Ownership: Placing major private corporations and key economic sectors under public or social control.

📍 Social Welfare: tuition-free higher education, canceling all student debt, universal child care, and a Green New Deal.

📍 Immigration and Justice:
Abolishing Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), dismantling the prison system, and opening borders as a long-term goal.

📍 Universal Healthcare: Implementing a single-payer, universal Medicare for All system at no cost to individuals.

📍 Housing as a Right: Building publicly owned social housing, enacting universal rent control, and decommodifying the housing market.

📍 Labor and Wages: Establishing a living minimum wage, paid family leave, and a federally mandated 32-hour workweek with full pay.

Jonah Goldberg tweeted in response, "There's not a single major idea proposed by the DSA crowd that wasn't an old idea before I was born. From price controls and rent-freezes, to wealth taxes, or shunning Jews. It's all old, old hat. You can agree with it. Or admire it's newfound energy or something. 𝗕𝘂𝘁 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗶𝗱𝗲𝗮𝘀 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗼𝗹𝗱, 𝘁𝗿𝗶𝗲𝗱, 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗳𝗮𝗶𝗹𝗲𝗱."

More than 100 DSA members have already been elected to state and local positions, and dozens more are poised to be elected in primaries for safe blue seats.

DSA member Melat Kiros defeated the far-left progressive incumbent Rep. Diana DeGette in the Colorado Democratic primary, because DeGette wasn't far-left enough.

The DSA's entire platform is here and you must read it to get the full flavor. (The first item is ""𝗜𝗺𝗮𝗴𝗶𝗻𝗲...𝗮 𝗳𝘂𝘁𝘂𝗿𝗲 𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗵𝗼𝘂𝘁 𝗰𝗮𝗽𝗶𝘁𝗮𝗹𝗶𝘀𝗺.") There are some nice Soviet-style graphics, too:

DSA Program

Workers Deserve More!

program.dsausa.org

 

[Ducttape]

which is why those who fear this should vote for mainstream democrats since the current government by republicans clearly is not working and needs replacement.

 

[bubaghanush]

which is why those who fear this should vote for mainstream democrats since the current government by republicans clearly is not working and needs replacement.

Hey now, some smart people are doing really well since Trump took office:

Trump made more than $1bn from crypto in first year back in office

The president's crypto income far outpaces his earnings from real estate and Trump-themed items such as watches.

www.bbc.com

Trump Jr.'s Investment Firm Posts 200% Returns, Helped by Polymarket's Meteoric Rise

Donald Trump Jr.’s investment firm 1789 Capital has reportedly generated returns of roughly 200%, driven partly by an early bet on prediction market platform Polymarket. The firm’s main fund posted the gains as of June 30, according to a New...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Lakers$]

which is why those who fear this should vote for mainstream democrats since the current government by republicans clearly is not working and needs replacement.

I agree but lowkey the main stream democrat or the so call old moderate democrat are dead. In 2 years this socialist movement will be on top and old head democrats will get taken out. I feel the elect to go again jd or Rubio will be AOC or madani. To be honest from these 4 I’m not going blue I’m going with Rubio. I’m sure these people will cheat to get a democrat crazy left elected. Please don’t try to educated me on election fraud, I saw first head in Los Angeles. They robbed spencer pratt. So all you democrat in this trend don’t try to protect the left on election fraud.

 

[mille125]

I agree but lowkey the main stream democrat or the so call old moderate democrat are dead. In 2 years this socialist movement will be on top and old head democrats will get taken out. I feel the elect to go again jd or Rubio will be AOC or madani. To be honest from these 4 I’m not going blue I’m going with Rubio. I’m sure these people will cheat to get a democrat crazy left elected. Please don’t try to educated me on election fraud, I saw first head in Los Angeles. They robbed spencer pratt. So all you democrat in this trend don’t try to protect the left on election fraud.

I am not a democratic socialist and disagree with much of what they have outlined.

However, if I had to choose between them vs MAGA worshipping Trump politics and had no other choice, I would hold my nose and vote for the DSA (and I think that a majority of Americans would do the same).

That shows the problem. Most of you that are complaining do not realize or do not want to admit how corrupt and how far out from mainstream the current administration is. We are voting with North Korea and Russia in the UN!! Nothing illustrates my point more than that.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

I agree that cheaper labor leads to these wealth gaps. All these socialist want cheap labor via immigrants and make the rich, richer. Doesn’t make sense in my head. I feel American should take on the labor and ask for more money and everything will be better economy and probably lead us away from this socialist movement

I'm not sure reality cares about what you feel should be the case. In the real world, there is a major labor shortage. It's not even a matter of higher or lower wages. There are not enough people working. If you don't want illegals doing the work, then get Americans to do it. The problem is that outside of me and a relative handful of others, there aren't too many Americans who enjoy doing this work. This is a very serious problem and it's going to weaken us as a country. Ford's CEO has made a lot of noise about this. I see this because I work these jobs but it's not going to be much longer before you start seeing the effects too.

The U.S. labor market may soon face a new crisis: Too few workers

A severe labor shortage is set to emerge over the next decade amid a wave of baby boomer retirements and a shrinking younger workforce.

www.cbsnews.com

The problem “could hobble the American economy for years to come,” -Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce.
“The largest labor shortage the country has ever seen,” -Lightcast labor market data company
(The labor shortage is) a national security risk from “a pervasive talent deficit that constrains the nation’s capacity to build, compete, and protect its interests.” -JP Morgan