Solved: Duke vs CWRU (scholarship)

[Throwawayaccount777]

Hi everyone,

I was hoping for some advice on this situation. Everything's telling me Duke is the obvious choice but it's hard to turn down a decent sized scholarship. My debt burden at Duke (unless I get aid) would be the full COA, so around 400k in debt. My debt burden at CWRU with the scholarship would be around 250k. I'd love to hear your thoughts. The idea of a debt that high scares me, but I also recognize that a Duke seat means a lot. I don't know how much time I have to make this decision so I'm hoping for as many opinions as possible.

A few random thoughts:

- I don't mind the locations of either school
- I don't have the best relationship with my family. CWRU allows the scholarship to renew without any new aid info. I don't think that's the case for Duke, which would mean I have to get in touch with them every year for financial aid applications.

Edit: Duke came through. Assuming financial aid will be similar for all four years, it became the cheaper school! Thanks to everyone who helped 🙂

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[Throwawayaccount777]

A follow up question: what difference in aid would justify going to Duke?

 

[soggymoo]

My 2 cents (Withdrew from Case for a full scholarship to a lesser known MD, I do not know what specialty I want to go into)

The rough numbers for you, if you were to live on 60K a year for the payment period, and 1/3 of income goes to tax, not considering any other savings, debts, if you have kids, etc.

CWRU 250K debt is 320K after residency:
- Attending income of 200K: 5 years to pay off
- Attending income of 300K: 2 years to pay off
- Attending income of 400K: 1 year to pay off
...

Duke 400K debt is 500K after residency:
- Attending income of 200K: 8 years to pay off
- Attending income of 300K: 4 years to pay off
- Attending income of 400K: 2 years to pay off
...

All is good and well if you are certain you well enter a high-paying field. Otherwise it really starts to make a difference the less you make on how quickly you will be able to pay off debt. That's if paying off debt asap is important to you!

Also consider... Case's recent match list? Wow... I couldn't personally tell that apart from Duke's.

And from my SDN perusal, I'd say this difference in prestige is not that significant unless a career in academia is important to you, and even then, I don't believe academia is high paying so the cost difference would become emphasized again.

 

[deleted1074206]

I had a similar decision between duke (paying full COA) and another t10 with scholarship (220 COA) and chose duke. Just vibed with the school more and saw myself there versus other school. If you really like duke, sports, p/f clinical, full research year, then might be worth it. But if you don’t feel that strongly towards duke then don’t do it, prestige differences are minimal and alone are not worth the difference in COA.

 

[deleted1074206]

i would just ask yourself if you would regret going to Duke or regret going to case and having less debt. Whichever option you would regret more, that’s your decision 🙂

 

[Throwawayaccount777]

My 2 cents (Withdrew from Case for a full scholarship to a lesser known MD, I do not know what specialty I want to go into)

The rough numbers for you, if you were to live on 60K a year for the payment period, and 1/3 of income goes to tax, not considering any other savings, debts, if you have kids, etc.

CWRU 250K debt is 320K after residency:
- Attending income of 200K: 5 years to pay off
- Attending income of 300K: 2 years to pay off
- Attending income of 400K: 1 year to pay off
...

Duke 400K debt is 500K after residency:
- Attending income of 200K: 8 years to pay off
- Attending income of 300K: 4 years to pay off
- Attending income of 400K: 2 years to pay off
...

All is good and well if you are certain you well enter a high-paying field. Otherwise it really starts to make a difference the less you make on how quickly you will be able to pay off debt. That's if paying off debt asap is important to you!

Also consider... Case's recent match list? Wow... I couldn't personally tell that apart from Duke's.

And from my SDN perusal, I'd say this difference in prestige is not that significant unless a career in academia is important to you, and even then, I don't believe academia is high paying so the cost difference would become emphasized again.

Thank you for this. I plan on going into a mid-high paying specialty (not derm level, maybe gas or obgyn?), although I want to keep my options open. If I suddenly become passionate about neurosurg who knows lol.

I’m struggling because I feel like duke is a once in a lifetime opportunity, but I know 150k is no joke. I haven’t started the aid process at duke so I have no clue what to expect in terms of need-based aid.

 

[Throwawayaccount777]

I had a similar decision between duke (paying full COA) and another t10 with scholarship (220 COA) and chose duke. Just vibed with the school more and saw myself there versus other school. If you really like duke, sports, p/f clinical, full research year, then might be worth it. But if you don’t feel that strongly towards duke then don’t do it, prestige differences are minimal and alone are not worth the difference in COA.

That early preclinical is sooo enticing for me. And I didn’t even know about the p/f clinical. That’s persuading me too. How did you come to terms with knowing you’ll take out the full COA (asking for a friend) 🙂 I don’t have a ton of financial anxiety right now but I’m worried the rising numbers in M3/4 might stress me out

 

[Throwawayaccount777]

i would just ask yourself if you would regret going to Duke or regret going to case and having less debt. Whichever option you would regret more, that’s your decision 🙂

At this moment I feel I would regret not going to duke. But it’s hard to say, what if I go to Duke and regret taking out more loans 🤣

 

[soggymoo]

Thank you for this. I plan on going into a mid-high paying specialty (not derm level, maybe gas or obgyn?), although I want to keep my options open. If I suddenly become passionate about neurosurg who knows lol.

I’m struggling because I feel like duke is a once in a lifetime opportunity, but I know 150k is no joke. I haven’t started the aid process at duke so I have no clue what to expect in terms of need-based aid.

I guess this becomes more about med school experience then! Both would get you into Gas and Obgyn no prob, and neither req significant (any?) research.

 

[soggymoo]

To add - Case only gives out need-based aid, I thought? If your scholarship is need-based, Duke is apparently generous for that I believe you should expect something similar, which would make this choice that much easier. Consider talking to Duke about your family situation they may be able to support your individual circumstances.

 

[Throwawayaccount777]

I guess this becomes more about med school experience then! Both would get you into Gas and Obgyn no prob, and neither req significant (any?) research.

I’m hoping Duke gives a similar need-based package considering they’re getting all the forms CWRU wanted. Thank you for the advice though, it helps to see the debt laid out in comparison to future salary potential

 

[Throwawayaccount777]

To add - Case only gives out need-based aid, I thought? If your scholarship is need-based, Duke is apparently generous for that I believe you should expect something similar, which would make this choice that much easier. Consider talking to Duke about your family situation they may be able to support your individual circumstances.

Yes. Everything I got was based on need. I had no idea Duke was known to be generous with need! That’s really good to hear 🙂

 

[deleted1074206]

That early preclinical is sooo enticing for me. And I didn’t even know about the p/f clinical. That’s persuading me too. How did you come to terms with knowing you’ll take out the full COA (asking for a friend) 🙂 I don’t have a ton of financial anxiety right now but I’m worried the rising numbers in M3/4 might stress me out

It was difficult coming to terms at first. I REALLY wanted to like the other school because it was cheaper, and if I hadn’t visited either school, I would’ve chosen the cheaper one. But after visiting I realized it was right for me. The people I met at duke admitted students weekend all so amazing and well rounded and fun to be around. I think that helped a lot.

But I found comfort too in knowing that a lot of current students will be in a similar position as me. I have talked with a bunch of physicians who also took took full COA In loans out and they said that if you are frugal in your first few years as an attending, it’s not as hard to pay off. Yes I know everyone wants to buy a fancy car and new nice house after training and studying for so Long, but holding out for a few years really helps and will make it easier. I also know that there is the PSLF as a backup, where after 10 years, as long as I made minimum payments in residency, my remaining loans go away if I work at a hospital (non profit). So theoretically, that’s 3-6 years after residency/fellowship (if I’m doing a 3 4 or 5 year residency) your debt can be gone.

 

[deleted1074206]

If scholarship is need based, you can definitely ask Duke to match it and they will probably be receptive.

 

[Throwawayaccount777]

If scholarship is need based, you can definitely ask Duke to match it and they will probably be receptive.

Some people in the school-specific thread said that they refused matches, but I'm going to try regardless! Thanks for sharing your thought process, it's really helpful 🙂

 

[JohnJacobJingleheimer]

As others have said, if Case gave you need based so will Duke. Case isn’t even known to be particularly generous w need based aid (although they gave pretty solid packages this year) and Duke is known to be fairly generous. I think this discussion will become a moot point tbh hahaha

 

[Throwawayaccount777]

As others have said, if Case gave you need based so will Duke. Case isn’t even known to be particularly generous w need based aid (although they gave pretty solid packages this year) and Duke is known to be fairly generous. I think this discussion will become a moot point tbh hahaha

I’m super relieved to hear this, I didn’t know duke was known to be generous!

 

[deleted1065184]

Thank you for this. I plan on going into a mid-high paying specialty (not derm level, maybe gas or obgyn?), although I want to keep my options open. If I suddenly become passionate about neurosurg who knows lol.

I’m struggling because I feel like duke is a once in a lifetime opportunity, but I know 150k is no joke. I haven’t started the aid process at duke so I have no clue what to expect in terms of need-based aid.

What's gas? If you mean GI, pretty sure they make more that derm. If I were in your shoes, I'd choose Case with no hesitation. Duke would def be an ego choice, which is fine if that's what you value. But wrt opportunities, Case is on par with Duke.

 

[soggymoo]

Gas is anaesthesia.
I agree with this. They’re going to get you the same place. There’s still no wrong decision but there is a wiser one imo and it is the one that gives you the most freedom to make the real heart decision which will be choosing the specialty that you love without having to factor in debt.

The worse case scenario here is you want to go into peds or something and you have 5 more years of debt payments. Its not that CWRU holds you back.

Also be careful to rely on PSLF. That is certainly not an assured or flexible way to pay off loans.

Either way all meaningless until you get Duke’s aid offer!

Edit — typos

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

Duke isn’t really a once in a lifetime opportunity in my opinion…obviously it’s prestigious, but it isn’t harvard and as other have said the schools will both get you to the same place ultimately.

Also yea you’ll pay off the loans regardless, but you’ll also be thankful to have money to spend on other things (more to go towards a mortgage, etc) early on your career.

For those reasons (same opportunity for hundreds of K less), I’d go Case. That said, your future probably won’t be that different either way (you’ll go where you want for residency, you’ll be able to afford nice things, and you’ll probably look back and say “thank goodness I went to x school” either way).

 

[deleted1065184]

Gas is anaesthesia.

Ahhhh thank you lol

 

[hellohelloooeh]

Your heart seems to want to go with Duke, but it is a lot of money to consider. I say this a lot lol but these are two great options — will echo others and say that you should definitely ask Duke if they can match your scholarship! Case isn’t super generous with money from what I’ve heard/experienced, so there’s a good chance it might be worth it

 

[Ironman_BTW]

It sounds like you’re really leaning Duke! Assuming the financial aid hasn’t come through, you might be surprised at how much aid you get via grants at Duke (fingers crossed it’s just as good if not better than CWRU). However, I would caution you on waiting to make a decision until Duke’s offer comes through.

But also for reference, I had a bunch of schools require the whole CSS profile and out of all of them Duke gave the most need based aid. Also as mentioned above, they won’t match need based aid but they’ll match merit aid (source: they did for me).

 

[Throwawayaccount777]

It sounds like you’re really leaning Duke! Assuming the financial aid hasn’t come through, you might be surprised at how much aid you get via grants at Duke (fingers crossed it’s just as good if not better than CWRU). However, I would caution you on waiting to make a decision until Duke’s offer comes through.

But also for reference, I had a bunch of schools require the whole CSS profile and out of all of them Duke gave the most need based aid. Also as mentioned above, they won’t match need based aid but they’ll match merit aid (source: they did for me).

I don't know when they'll give me my package but I'm hoping it's soon. Apparently I have a (tentative) week to decide, but I'll probably ask for an extension.

I'm glad to hear so many people saying Duke's aid is generous! CWRU and Duke were the only two schools I was required to send the CSS to, so hopefully the Duke package is on par with Case's.