Some advice From PA/MD/DO's

[MSc44]

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hello all
This is only my second time posting on the PA forum and i wanted to get some ideas. I have a BS (Honors in bio) A MS in Cancer Bio and really always wanted to practice medicine. Dad is an FMG went to school in mexico, and all i remember as a kid growing up is him failing the US boards and having an MD degree but nothing to really fall back on before he passed. I guess this memory stuck with me and instilled some fear. I have decided to obtain A PA degree first with hopes of eventually going on to medical school in the future. This way if for some reason medical school does not work out or i am forced to go overseas (unlikely if i do well on mcats...but not a good test taker) I will have somthing to fall back on and will be doing what i enjoy......practicing medicine. Is there anyone out there who has done this. I will in no way be a disgrunteled PA because i only went into medicine to get an MD or DO.....Im doing it b/c i want to practice medicine in anyway i can. I just feel at some point i would like to obtain the academic and personal fulfilment of the Dr degree. This is how i feel now, and i may very well be content with just a PA degree. Im only 24 and admit i have lots to learn about a lot. Its just that im very much academic, but love the clinical.......yet have this great fear which is maybe slightly irrational to some. I am confident as was my father but i guess "**** HAPPENS" so this is what i have decided to do.

any thoughts or feed back from anyone who has taken this path, or those who just have some insight, i would greatly appreachiate it

 

[Monika]

Considering that your ultimate goal is to become an MD or DO..there is no need to become a PA. Regardless of what others may think on this forum, PA school is no walk in the park. It is tough and you are expected to hold your own during the clinical year with MS3s & MS4s. I am most certainly not saying that PA students are equivalent in every way to MS3/4's. The point is that if you think that you may not be able to successfully complete med school then you are going to have a very tough time in PA school.

Get serious about your studies, learn from the mistakes your father made, and move on from there. You mentioned that you already have a master's degree....assuming you get accepted into PA school, you are going to have to complete another master's degree, then 4 more years of med school, then 3+ years in residency. It really sounds like you want to be a doctor and no one should view the PA profession as a consolation prize. Set your sights on becoming a doctor and go for it.

Best wishes.
Monica, PA-C

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

Monica has excellent advice

I know you wouldnt intend it this way, but becomming a PA/RN/NP/CRNA as a stepping stone to Medical school devalues the profession in a way. There are many people out there who WANT to be PAs and are excited about it. If you take a slot at PA school planning not to really practice as one, that is a slot someone who really wants to be a PA wont get.

As an example:

I was teaching new residents ACLS last week. One girl was talking about how hard she found this class especially when she would never use it (i make it harder for new residents than the typical class). So i asked her what specialty she was planning on so i could create some scenarios that would apply to her. She said "none". Now that struck me (and all the ppl in the group) as very odd. She stated she was only going through med school to get into broadcasting and have her own "show" (like physicians on the news with their health segments). I wanted to kill her.

How many deserving people on this board are waitlisted and didnt get in when she did? So you can imagine any other profession might feel the same way 😉

 

[MSc44]

Monica has excellent advice

I know you wouldnt intend it this way, but becomming a PA/RN/NP/CRNA as a stepping stone to Medical school devalues the profession in a way. There are many people out there who WANT to be PAs and are excited about it. If you take a slot at PA school planning not to really practice as one, that is a slot someone who really wants to be a PA wont get.

As an example:

I was teaching new residents ACLS last week. One girl was talking about how hard she found this class especially when she would never use it (i make it harder for new residents than the typical class). So i asked her what specialty she was planning on so i could create some scenarios that would apply to her. She said "none". Now that struck me (and all the ppl in the group) as very odd. She stated she was only going through med school to get into broadcasting and have her own "show" (like physicians on the news with their health segments). I wanted to kill her.

How many deserving people on this board are waitlisted and didnt get in when she did? So you can imagine any other profession might feel the same way 😉[/QUO

I Understand where both of you are comming from completly. As i just wrote in a PM to someone who PM'ed me on this topic, "im exhited about becoming a PA" and cant wait to begin the practice of medicine. I just know that at some point i will have a desire to further my education. And there are a few other reasons which are "good for me" in choosing why i want to take this path

 

[DocNusum]

MSc44 wrote:

I just know that at some point i will have a desire to further my education. And there are a few other reasons which are "good for me" in choosing why i want to take this path

Becoming a MD/DO is a NATURAL progression after practicing as a PA-C or NP (unless of course NPs get COMPLETE autonomy!)...

Why would a PA/NP that has been practicing medicine for... say... 12 years pursue another science degree...???

AUTONOMY

It's about independence--not being subject to the whims of the administration but able to partner with other docs & PAs I trust to provide the best care possible. It's about respect--which this profession lacks for all of the reasons we've discussed ad nauseum.

I agree... my reasoning also... I'm tired of accepting B$ from A$$holes who think PAs are personal slaves... just to stay employed... and that WE should be glad that THEY let us see patients at all...

MDs are everyday people... which means that personality defects and psychological pathology occurs in this population also...Your livlihood is in the hands of these people... a arbitrarily defined scope of practice doesn't appear to be a good practice environment... 👎

I'm tired of accepting B$ from A$$holes who think PAs are personal slaves... just to stay employed... and that WE should be glad that THEY let us see patients at all...

MDs are everyday people... which means that personality defects and psychological pathology occurs in this population also...Your livlihood is in the hands of these people...

Practice with a few MDs who look at you as "ancillary staff" and a "cash cow"... Get paid $65,000/yr... although you bill $500,000/yr... and you have to "answer to" the practice manager that don't even know what HTN is... but makes as much or more than you do...
Then try to secure some "equity" in the practice and watch them laugh at you... and say, " well go to medical school if you want to be trated like a provider/partner"... even though they bill the same price for what you do in an exam room as a MD...then blackball you if you don't play their game... then... YOU will understand...

It's about vertical mobility and not having to suck A$$ to keep a job...

When I became a PA... I knew and accepted the dependent practitioner role...
What I didn't consider was that MDs as humans can be afflicted with psychological pathologies also... which can adversly affect PA job satisfaction.

Some MDs are great practice partners... and think of PAs as colleagues.
Many see PAs as subservient "cash-cow" slaves and are abusive.

Imagine having to uproot your family every 2-3 years and move to different states just because someone else (MD SP) has a problem...

MD loses his license... you're out of a job
MD has a MI and dies... You're out of a job
MD gets a divorce... you're out of a job
MD has a affair with the OM... you may be out of a job if you don't kiss her A$$
MD has a car accident... you may be out of a Job
MD decides that he's tired and wants to retire... you're out of a job
MD's non-medical "trophy" wife feels like you work for her... but you don't agree... you're out of a job...
MDs are very happy with your practice performance, but one of the five has "superiority issues" with everybody that doesn't have MD behind their name... you may be out of a job...

As a PA-C... if you live in a small town... and any of the above occur... you have to either drive 2+ hrs daily to work or pull the kids out of school and move again... and if you move... who's to say that none of the above won't occur where you are moving to...

So... when experienced PA-Cs want vertical mobility (become a MD) it's usually not about the $$$$... but about practice stability and the ability to plan their families lives.

 

[krust3]

As a PA who practiced for 3 years and is now starting med school in the fall, i have lived all of what has been said above.

i went into PA school thinking i'd fulfill my interest in medicine as a PA and therefore bypassing a 8 years of school and training student loans. it wasn't long into my career that i realized i should have just gone to med school in the first place. so, now i'm about to start over where had i gone to med school instead of PA school, i'd be almost a PGY-2 now. i've gotta say though that i am better for it and med school will be a more pleasant experience for me.

good luck to the OP

 

[guetzow]

I work a subspecialty with lots of procedure$, no call/weekends/nights, and good compen$ation. I am very happy. For me, med school could be a regression(Read part about my lack of call again...). Most folks who continue on to MD probably had a poor SP relationship, worked an FP job with low compensation and crazy workload, or... a surgery job with crazy hours and average compensation. It's all relative. Becoming an MD won't alleviate these (Bad) situations. Finding the right job is the answer. Conversely, attaining MD status does not automatically impart a higher financial IQ (Or better people skills...).

 

[corpsmanUP]

I work a subspecialty with lots of procedure$, no call/weekends/nights, and good compen$ation. I am very happy. For me, med school could be a regression(Read part about my lack of call again...). Most folks who continue on to MD probably had a poor SP relationship, worked an FP job with low compensation and crazy workload, or... a surgery job with crazy hours and average compensation. It's all relative. Becoming an MD won't alleviate these (Bad) situations. Finding the right job is the answer. Conversely, attaining MD status does not automatically impart a higher financial IQ (Or better people skills...).

Great, but pure speculation. I have been a PA for 8 years now and will graduate from med school in 2+ months. I firmly believe the midlevel route, specifically PA, is the greatest stepping stone to medicine one can take. Its a natural transition and its really no ones place in this profession to judge how one will use their degree. Physicians in journalism have important jobs. But that intern in ACLS class will find few people wanting to hire her without board certification. But its her business. I made 6 figures as a partner in a large suburban FM practice, and loved my job. I just longed for something more, and to be a physician. I did not know this before I became a PA. I am a mixed minority and my access to quality schools was not there as a kid. It took me longer to gain confidence in my ability. And perhaps wanting to work 3 shifts per week on average and get paid 250K+ is not a terrible thing for what I have put in to this. Like I said, speculation is like evidence-lacking patient care. Save it for someone in a bar who you want to whine to but don't paint my picture for me.

 

[corpsmanUP]

For me, med school could be a regression(Read part about my lack of call again...). .

Thats just your insecurity or arrogance talking. You wouldn't feel like you were regressing as you took all your USMLE's and your SHELF exams. Boards in med school are about 10-20 times as rigorous as PA boards.....(one joke of an exam only). I'm graduating 2nd in my class, some of the top boards in the nation, and have done it with less stress or time in the books than most. But don't think for a minute its been some sort of "regression". Maybe in the finite arena of medicine you currently practice but try and recall you are a specialist PA who probably does about 1/10th of what your specialty physician does.