Some Colleges to Drop Out of US News Rankings

[ElementOfDanger]

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Interesting article in the NY Times

Looks like some undergraduate institutions are starting to question the validity of these rankings. Any chance that medical schools will follow suit?

 

[ssquared]

Only if Harvard does.

If Harvard does it, others will follow. Remember what happened with early decision?

 

[viciouz]

There was an article in Time Magazine about 2 months ago saying how the whole thing is BS... but schools don't drop out of it because US News makes up the figures up and still includes them. Also some of the schools use these rankings for funding and such.

 

[Funky]

the US news rankings for medical schools also depend on things like research grants so the ranking system for undergrad is much different from med school

 

[jochi1543]

I've got a US News book of med schools, and they have a list of about 20 schools that "did not return the survey." Not surprisingly, many of those were schools like Meharry, which don't usually rank highly on these types of surveys.

This year in Canada, many undergrads refused to participate in McLean's rankings (the Canadian version of US News).

I think it's pretty predictable....the schools that rank in the top 25% will keep filling out the surveys, because the rankings make them look good, but schools in the bottom 25% are probably going to be relieved once US News stops publishing the rankings.

 

[jochi1543]

the US news rankings for medical schools also depend on things like research grants so the ranking system for undergrad is much different from med school

I don't know if research grants are considered for undergrads, but I know one thing they look at for undergrads is the size of the endowment....(and really, as long as your dorm and lecture hall are in decent condition, do you care about this as a student?) This is one of the reasons why I went to a #25 ranked undergrad over a #11 after getting acceptances at both. The gap in rankings had to do with #11's endowment being like 5x that of #25, even though the schools were the same size. And it mattered to me....not a whole lot.

 

[SIREN]

I purchased the 2008 edition, and was disappointed. I wasted 10 whole dollars, and to think I could have went buck wild at Wal-Mart with that kind of cash.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I don't know if research grants are considered for undergrads, but I know one thing they look at for undergrads is the size of the endowment....(and really, as long as your dorm and lecture hall are in decent condition, do you care about this as a student?) This is one of the reasons why I went to a #25 ranked undergrad over a #11 after getting acceptances at both. The gap in rankings had to do with #11's endowment being like 5x that of #25, even though the schools were the same size. And it mattered to me....not a whole lot.

Endowments at liberal arts schools are very important. For example, Antioch College in Ohio just closed its doors because it had a paltry $30M endowment (http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/06/15/antioch.college.ap/index.html. If your college closes, thats a big deal! Endowments also ability to give out scholarships. For example, Davidson College's endowment allows them to give loan-free financial aid packages to its students. Endowments also provide funding for school-sponsored student research and travel. For example, Rhodes College (where I went) would pay for any student presenting research to go anywhere in the world to present it at a conference. I knew someone who got to goto Italy on the college's dime, something that a nonexistent endowment simply couldn't afford. Endowments also allow for physical improvements and critical faculty support. When you are looking at undergrad colleges, endowments are critical.

 

[Bartelby]

You know, everyone criticizes college rankings and whines about how you should look for a school that is a "good fit" for you rather than a "top" school. Really, though, how are we supposed to know? For instance, with med schools I don't have the time or money to go cross country and tour a bunch of med schools to figure out what I like. I look in the MSAR and on the web page and guess what, I have no clue if they are a "good fit" for me, and I don't think I would really know until a few months into my first semester. Obviously rankings are far from perfect, but I say basing your decision on imperfect objective information is better than basing it on hearsay from friends, family, and publications put out by the school itself.

Does anyone else out there actually kind of like the rankings?

Also, note that if you get into several top-30 schools or something like that you obviously would not blindly choose the highest ranked one, you would choose the one you liked most on a visit (once it is narrowed down to a couple of schools, a visit for an interview or second look seems called for).

 

[postbacker]

You know, everyone criticizes college rankings and whines about how you should look for a school that is a "good fit" for you rather than a "top" school. Really, though, how are we supposed to know? For instance, with med schools I don't have the time or money to go cross country and tour a bunch of med schools to figure out what I like. I look in the MSAR and on the web page and guess what, I have no clue if they are a "good fit" for me, and I don't think I would really know until a few months into my first semester. Obviously rankings are far from perfect, but I say basing your decision on imperfect objective information is better than basing it on hearsay from friends, family, and publications put out by the school itself.

Does anyone else out there actually kind of like the rankings?

Also, note that if you get into several top-30 schools or something like that you obviously would not blindly choose the highest ranked one, you would choose the one you liked most on a visit (once it is narrowed down to a couple of schools, a visit for an interview or second look seems called for).

I feel the opposite about your bolded statement - particularly if you add to the list of advisors actual doctors and researchers - I place much more reliance on the advice and experience of friends, family members, and health care professionals than I would ever place on the "imperfect objective" rankings...

 

[ArminTamzarian]

PSU already did.

 

[jochi1543]

Endowments also ability to give out scholarships. For example, Davidson College's endowment allows them to give loan-free financial aid packages to its students.

That's ironic considering that the college with the 5x smaller endowment gave me a 4x bigger scholarship.

 

[63768]

I think it's pretty predictable....the schools that rank in the top 25% will keep filling out the surveys, because the rankings make them look good, but schools in the bottom 25% are probably going to be relieved once US News stops publishing the rankings.

that's exactly what i said when i read this story.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

That's ironic considering that the college with the 5x smaller endowment gave me a 4x bigger scholarship.

🙄 I made a very similar decision, but it doesn't refute my point that larger endowments matter to the student, and in many ways including but not just limited to financial aid. Case in point: the scholarships we got both came from the endowment, its just that we were lucky enough to get a share.

 

[rpm]

I could understand why some colleges would want to drop out of the rankings. It is really difficult to crack the rankings to get listed as a top school since the well established schools are going to keep on attracting the best faculty and students and the most $. A state school such as mine, UMDNJ, isn't going to be in the top-tier anytime soon. Although all the med schools in the U.S. are great, the difference between a top-tier school and the ones in bottom of the list is huge. And face it, if any pre-med got accepted into med school at JH, UPenn, or UCSF, they wouldn't think twice about going to any other school not ranked in the top 20 or so.

 

[flaahless]

That's ironic considering that the college with the 5x smaller endowment gave me a 4x bigger scholarship.

Same here... UC Berkeley for 20g's a year, or Cal State Long Beach for free... I chose Long Beach