ProgCoordinator

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To preface, I am looking forward to meeting with many of you throughout the season and I'll be around here until the end. Feel free to hit me up if you have questions. This is the first time I've started a thread, but for years I've wanted to and now the spirit has finally driven me to bring you points that bug many a PC and PD from year to year.

Please, please, please don't call or email a program for the following information unless you have already read through their website and their FREIDA listing and still cannot find what you're looking for:

How many slots the program will have available in the match.
Whether the program will consider those on visas.
The program's application deadline.
Whether publications and research will be considered. (Yes, of course)
What the program requires as part of the submission.
Whether additional materials are required for the application.
In which city and/or state the program is located.

This being the internet age, it's a waste of everyone's time to call for these things (and sometimes wait >24 hrs for a response) when everything is probably already available at your fingertips.

:luck:
 

joejabjab

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ProgCoordinator,

Thank you for your insight and helpful tips. Definitely going to take heed.

Of note, though, I have been going to every website of programs that I'm applying to. Some seem to have outdated webpages, stating things like, "applications due Dec 31, 2008". I sometimes wonder the accuracy of the information. Some websites don't say much at all. I have emailed a program asking for some details; I hope it doesn't count against me.

-Joejabjab
 

katang

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How about writing what to do as well for a competitive application??
 
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ProgCoordinator,

Thank you for your insight and helpful tips. Definitely going to take heed.

Of note, though, I have been going to every website of programs that I'm applying to. Some seem to have outdated webpages, stating things like, "applications due Dec 31, 2008". I sometimes wonder the accuracy of the information. Some websites don't say much at all. I have emailed a program asking for some details; I hope it doesn't count against me.

-Joejabjab
Yeah, outdated sites stink. If the site is clearly out of date and you can't find what you're looking for on their FREIDA page (which we have to update at least annually), then it's more than fair to contact the program. It shouldn't count against you. :luck:
 
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How about writing what to do as well for a competitive application??
Speaking from my experience, it's probably a waste of time. For one, we haven't seen the entire pool of our applicants for the season. Secondly, although we have an educated idea of what our applicant pool will look like based on past seasons, most programs won't come out and tell you whether you're among the most competitive or whether you can do anything specific in order to become competitive because, at this point, there's nothing more that you can do.

Although I appreciate that many are reaching out to ask this question because ERAS isn't cheap and casting a wide net is expensive, many programs may feel it discourteous to tell a potential candidate that they're not up to snuff. And further, delivering such bad news opens the door for argumentative and/or needier candidates.

:luck:
 
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ProgCoordinator,

Your presence here is very insightful. Thank You! I was wondering if programs even look at applications with a missing component. For example, if a program requires medical school transcript that is missing but the application is otherwise complete and the candidate looks competitive. Would the missing transcript play a big enough role to not grant this candidate an interview?
 
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ProgCoordinator,

Your presence here is very insightful. Thank You! I was wondering if programs even look at applications with a missing component. For example, if a program requires medical school transcript that is missing but the application is otherwise complete and the candidate looks competitive. Would the missing transcript play a big enough role to not grant this candidate an interview?
As you probably know, we can filter in ERAS. One of the options is filtering out incomplete applications. Every program utilizes the filters differently, but you won't exist in their world if they use that filter and your application is incomplete.

Should the program see your application, it's incomplete, but their interest has been piqued to a high degree, they may choose to email you asking for it. This is a long shot and the program may still hold you to their deadline if it hasn't passed.

Always keep in mind that this is an extremely competitive subspecialty. If they've asked for it they want it. Submitting a total application as requested is part of the process. For every one incomplete application there are plenty of other strong candidates whose submissions are complete. :luck:
 
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Another point of view on ProgCoord's OP. I applied and matched last year. I cast a wide net but had overall a good response. I sent every program the same application - while some programs may not state that they require certain elements, I don't see how including everything could hurt. If a specific program has a requirement that is so different from what every other program requires, they will state it clearly on their website. Otherwise the only major differences are deadlines. And for what it's worth, the coordinator at the one program I did call a few times remembered me as "the guy that call all the time" so be careful and focused with your communications.
 

Dabigatran

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Hi there,
What is the time frame for programs to start sending the interviews ?
Is it Jan/Feb or March/April time ,I am planning for my vacation month so I can condense my interviews in that time!

Any idea ?
Thanks
 
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Hi there,
What is the time frame for programs to start sending the interviews ?
Is it Jan/Feb or March/April time ,I am planning for my vacation month so I can condense my interviews in that time!

Any idea ?
Thanks
In general, February-April is the densest span for interviews throughout the country. I believe that May is popular with west coast programs, as well. Bear in mind that the way interview dates fall will vary from year to year based on faculty availability. :luck:
 

dragonfly99

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Not many interviews in January. usually mid to late Feb up through March. My experience was the whole month of March and then 1st couple weeks of April had the highest density.
 
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Would it be a good idea to email programs once my application is complete ?
Although I appreciate why you would want to...no. Please don't. Especially not at this time. Understand that we've had hundreds (upon hundreds) of applications pour in over the last ten days and we're looking down the ERAS barrel to see that hundreds (upon hundreds) more will be coming in over the next few weeks. Time is extremely precious for us right now.

Trust me, we're paying attention to who's finished. We're happy for each and every application that is complete before deadline and need time to review them.

I believe that candidates can look on ERAS and see when their documents have been downloaded by programs. Hopefully this is true and will suffice in calming you guys in the meantime.

:luck:
 

BrockDoc

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ProgCoordinator,

What are your thoughts on someone who comes to the Cardiology game a bit late. I went into internal medicine pretty set on GI, but somewhere along the way I was less inspired by GI and went through sort of a "soul-searching" period where I tried to figure out what I enjoy. Critical care was bounced around, but I am pretty sure what I enjoy most in medicine is cardiology. The problem is now I am a third year resident, so I don't have any research. My plan was to work as a hospitalist and see if can do some research then. What are your thoughts about someone like me? Someone who may not have come out of medical school with guns a blazing for cardiology?
 
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ProgCoordinator,

What are your thoughts on someone who comes to the Cardiology game a bit late. I went into internal medicine pretty set on GI, but somewhere along the way I was less inspired by GI and went through sort of a "soul-searching" period where I tried to figure out what I enjoy. Critical care was bounced around, but I am pretty sure what I enjoy most in medicine is cardiology. The problem is now I am a third year resident, so I don't have any research. My plan was to work as a hospitalist and see if can do some research then. What are your thoughts about someone like me? Someone who may not have come out of medical school with guns a blazing for cardiology?

It happens. Every year I see candidates in the same boat. Keep in mind that anything else I say is strictly coming from my experience in a university-based academic program and how we do things. Every program reviews applications differently. In our case, I'm the front line and we have a pretty formal review process.

The reason for telling you all of this is because, for the initial review, every application is broken down to the applicant's basics (training, ranks, USMLE, research, pubs/posters/presentations). Then, when they make it through the first cut, I'll get personal to familiarize myself with applicants more fully by reading everything.

Blah, blah, blah. Okay. There are many programs out there and, while not all are academic, research will probably be the best way to strengthen your application for any Cardiology fellowship. You can't do anything about many of the other components. My advice is to slam research while you can. I love the idea of starting ASAP and busting your butt during a hospitalist year. Try to get in on good projects anticipating submission to strong journals and/or conferences. If you have access to a rock star PI, hook up with them if you can. Score a citation and a great LOR.

Surely others will have advice, as well. Take it in and don't go crazy with worry. Do what you can. Use your post as a nice little building block for your personal statement.

:luck:
 

Dabigatran

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It happens. Every year I see candidates in the same boat. Keep in mind that anything else I say is strictly coming from my experience in a university-based academic program and how we do things. Every program reviews applications differently. In our case, I'm the front line and we have a pretty formal review process.

The reason for telling you all of this is because, for the initial review, every application is broken down to the applicant's basics (training, ranks, USMLE, research, pubs/posters/presentations). Then, when they make it through the first cut, I'll get personal to familiarize myself with applicants more fully by reading everything.

Blah, blah, blah. Okay. There are many programs out there and, while not all are academic, research will probably be the best way to strengthen your application for any Cardiology fellowship. You can't do anything about many of the other components. My advice is to slam research while you can. I love the idea of starting ASAP and busting your butt during a hospitalist year. Try to get in on good projects anticipating submission to strong journals and/or conferences. If you have access to a rock star PI, hook up with them if you can. Score a citation and a great LOR.

Surely others will have advice, as well. Take it in and don't go crazy with worry. Do what you can. Use your post as a nice little building block for your personal statement.

:luck:

OMG ,,,You speak like a program director !!!
Well done ... A very comprehensive answer :thumbup:
 

nstemi

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progcoord - thanks for all the advice.

question for you. we just received an email from eras telling us that they want our medical schools to send in our transcripts/mspe. however, on the efdo website it states they encourage uploading these documents ourselves. i had my transcripts sent in, but my medical school just emailed me my mspe and i uploaded it myself. is this a problem? should i have it re-sent? thanks!
 
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progcoord - thanks for all the advice.

question for you. we just received an email from eras telling us that they want our medical schools to send in our transcripts/mspe. however, on the efdo website it states they encourage uploading these documents ourselves. i had my transcripts sent in, but my medical school just emailed me my mspe and i uploaded it myself. is this a problem? should i have it re-sent? thanks!
I'm stumped and don't want to give you bad advice. From my side of the fence I can't tell the difference when I see the MSPE and transcript in the system.

It's understandably preferable to have your med school send the documents directly to ERAS for upload and I'd always assumed that this was the only means by which you could get them in the system. However, if the EFDO states that they encourage your uploading independently...I guess you're in the clear.

Looking forward to seeing whether others have better info.

:luck:
 
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It doesnt really matter for ERAS/programs if you upload your MSPE/transcripts....It is actually much more convenient for you and the application. Imagine, if you (or med school) had to mail it to ERAS, it may take up to 2-3 weeks to scan the documents (just like a LoR).
I would upload it myself if that's ok with my med school policy (which i did). I guess that was the intent of the ERAS email today..
Good luck!
 
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Although I appreciate why you would want to...no. Please don't. Especially not at this time. Understand that we've had hundreds (upon hundreds) of applications pour in over the last ten days and we're looking down the ERAS barrel to see that hundreds (upon hundreds) more will be coming in over the next few weeks. Time is extremely precious for us right now.

Trust me, we're paying attention to who's finished. We're happy for each and every application that is complete before deadline and need time to review them.

I believe that candidates can look on ERAS and see when their documents have been downloaded by programs. Hopefully this is true and will suffice in calming you guys in the meantime.

:luck:

Thanks much ProgramCoord... for your responses.

I have 3 LORs in my app so far. the 4th one is not written by the professor as yet. He also happens to be a PD of a program and so I understand he is really busy now. But the problem is some programs want 4 LORs.. so I still have an "incomplete" app for those programs... I am worried it may cost me dearly in terms of interviews... ..

Any insight as to how my application may or may not be reviewed with 1 LOR still not available..?

I do not wanna bug the Professor/ PD too much for writing the letter. I have already sent him a reminder email after waiting for 2 weeks from my original request date... I still have not heard back from him. The Assistant to him is also very nice but my Professor/PD just happens to be "too busy".


Thanks again.
 

BGriffin

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I have 3 LORs in my app so far. the 4th one is not written by the professor as yet. He also happens to be a PD of a program and so I understand he is really busy now. But the problem is some programs want 4 LORs.. so I still have an "incomplete" app for those programs... I am worried it may cost me dearly in terms of interviews... ..

Any insight as to how my application may or may not be reviewed with 1 LOR still not available..?

I do not wanna bug the Professor/ PD too much for writing the letter. I have already sent him a reminder email after waiting for 2 weeks from my original request date... I still have not heard back from him. The Assistant to him is also very nice but my Professor/PD just happens to be "too busy".


Thanks again.
Of all the places I applied, I believe only one place actually required 4 letters, and I applied to many of the major programs. I would guess that you would be okay for a lot of programs even if your final letter didn't come through...of course I don't know where you're applying.
 
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Of all the places I applied, I believe only one place actually required 4 letters, and I applied to many of the major programs. I would guess that you would be okay for a lot of programs even if your final letter didn't come through...of course I don't know where you're applying.
I too applied widely. From my list, there is only one program in Chicago which specifically asks for 4 LoRs. Rest all ask for only 3.
 
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Thanks much ProgramCoord... for your responses.

I have 3 LORs in my app so far. the 4th one is not written by the professor as yet. He also happens to be a PD of a program and so I understand he is really busy now. But the problem is some programs want 4 LORs.. so I still have an "incomplete" app for those programs... I am worried it may cost me dearly in terms of interviews... ..

Any insight as to how my application may or may not be reviewed with 1 LOR still not available..?

I do not wanna bug the Professor/ PD too much for writing the letter. I have already sent him a reminder email after waiting for 2 weeks from my original request date... I still have not heard back from him. The Assistant to him is also very nice but my Professor/PD just happens to be "too busy".


Thanks again.
If they asked for them, they want them. Some (most?) programs won't review incomplete applications, so you're kind of behind the eight ball right now for any program that has asked for four LORs.

Although you probably still have time to meet most deadlines out there, that fourth letter needs to get out soon because it'll take time for them to actually scan and uploaded it. But you certainly don't want to piss off the letter writer before they actually write the letter. Which I'm sure you know. Which I'm sure is why you're freaked.

You've got a couple of options:
*Do you have another potential letter writer (assuming the LOR you're waiting for isn't from your IM residency's PD)?
*While I'm not usually a proponent of contacting fellowship programs, it's probably fair to email the four-letter-requesting programs to briefly explain your situation and ask if they'd be willing to accept the last letter outside of ERAS (fax or emailed scan).

That's all I got. Really hope it works out.

:luck:
 
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I do not have any more LOR writers for now ..

I guess I will need to wait for him to finish the letter..

Thankfully I could get my IM residency PD letter just in time and is uploaded... so the one letter remaining is from a professor in the specialty...

thanks.
 
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Hi Every body

Am new this forum. Applying for Cards fellowship. Wanted to know being a FMG, what all you need for getting an interview beside usual ERAS application. How Much Research/Publications/ Abstracts Play a role in Securing a position. Thanks
 
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Hi Every body

Am new this forum. Applying for Cards fellowship. Wanted to know being a FMG, what all you need for getting an interview beside usual ERAS application. How Much Research/Publications/ Abstracts Play a role in Securing a position. Thanks
Welcome to SDN! Your research/Publications/Abstracts should be all included in your ERAS application, so not sure if i got your question right..
Of course those may help, but also other factors too play a role, such as resdiency prog, USMLE scores, letters, etc..Since you are new in here, this subject has been extensively discussed in different threads and i advise you to do a little search around in this forum. Let us know if you don't find your answers..
Good luck!
 

NaughtyGirl

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Thank you very much for your help Progcoordinator. Talked to a handful of people and we all find your responses very useful.

My question is this.

What do you consider a "good" internal medicine inservice exam percentile score. I know it isn't mandatory. But I assume people that do well on the exam volunteer this information to the fellowship program via PD letter, email etc.

Also, do you focus on the Cardiology section of the internal medicine inservice exam. For example if someone scored 60th percentile but scored a 95th precentile on the Cardiology section is that considered impressive to your program. Or is someone that scored 80th percentile on inservice exam but only a 30th percentile on Cardiology section impressive.


Thank you once again.

If they asked for them, they want them. Some (most?) programs won't review incomplete applications, so you're kind of behind the eight ball right now for any program that has asked for four LORs.

Although you probably still have time to meet most deadlines out there, that fourth letter needs to get out soon because it'll take time for them to actually scan and uploaded it. But you certainly don't want to piss off the letter writer before they actually write the letter. Which I'm sure you know. Which I'm sure is why you're freaked.

You've got a couple of options:
*Do you have another potential letter writer (assuming the LOR you're waiting for isn't from your IM residency's PD)?
*While I'm not usually a proponent of contacting fellowship programs, it's probably fair to email the four-letter-requesting programs to briefly explain your situation and ask if they'd be willing to accept the last letter outside of ERAS (fax or emailed scan).

That's all I got. Really hope it works out.

:luck:
 

NaughtyGirl

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One last question.

When one receives an email stating that one needs more letters to finish the application, is this a generic letter that you guys send out to people with incomplete applications or does this mean that the program looked at your application personally and would like a letter "to complete" the application.

The reason I ask is I know you guys are very busy. Therefore, I am not sure if it is advanatageous to fishout incomplete applications from your filter. Or does this mean that the program is interested therefore they want "a complete application".

It seems to me that it would be more work for you guys to request more LORs if you are not interested i.e. weak application for the position at your program.

Thank you :luck:
 
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Thank you very much for your help Progcoordinator. Talked to a handful of people and we all find your responses very useful.

My question is this.

What do you consider a "good" internal medicine inservice exam percentile score. I know it isn't mandatory. But I assume people that do well on the exam volunteer this information to the fellowship program via PD letter, email etc.

Also, do you focus on the Cardiology section of the internal medicine inservice exam. For example if someone scored 60th percentile but scored a 95th precentile on the Cardiology section is that considered impressive to your program. Or is someone that scored 80th percentile on inservice exam but only a 30th percentile on Cardiology section impressive.


Thank you once again.
Good question. I will add one more thing. If the program does care about in-service scores, what is the best way to communicate these scores to the fellowship PD?
 
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Good question. I will add one more thing. If the program does care about in-service scores, what is the best way to communicate these scores to the fellowship PD?
I'm going to try to answer all the above questions here.

We don't get everyone's inservice scores. Sometimes we get the nitty gritty and sometimes we don't. If the scores are there we'll consider them. Paying closest attention to IM and Cards. The only reason we may pay attention to other areas will be if there are red flags there.

Onto the other point: If a program reaches out to you in particular asking for something specific, it means that they've taken an interest in your submission, but can't put your application forward without the outstanding document(s). Therefore, I wouldn't disregard the request if you're interested in that program.

:luck:
 
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I'm going to try to answer all the above questions here.

We don't get everyone's inservice scores. Sometimes we get the nitty gritty and sometimes we don't. If the scores are there we'll consider them. Paying closest attention to IM and Cards. The only reason we may pay attention to other areas will be if there are red flags there.

Onto the other point: If a program reaches out to you in particular asking for something specific, it means that they've taken an interest in your submission, but can't put your application forward without the outstanding document(s). Therefore, I wouldn't disregard the request if you're interested in that program.

:luck:
Did that answer your question @Cards2012 about the in service scores? so again, what is the best way to communicate these scores? (they are not included anywhere on the application)
2-Is it ok if we do so? as the in-service objectives' sheet's results states clearly that those should be solely used for self-assessment and not for fellowship applications or considerations. Any thoughts?
 
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Did that answer your question @Cards2012 about the in service scores? so again, what is the best way to communicate these scores? (they are not included anywhere on the application)
2-Is it ok if we do so? as the in-service objectives' sheet's results states clearly that those should be solely used for self-assessment and not for fellowship applications or considerations. Any thoughts?
These scores are something that many PDs want but dont know how to ask/get them. I know that in my program (very good university program) our medicine PD's letter reflects (but doesnt mention) our in-service scores.

I still dont know how to mention my in-service scores to cards PDs. I dont want to annoy them but also want to use my good in-service scores to my advantage. Anybody any idea on how to go about it??
 

Dabigatran

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These scores are something that many PDs want but dont know how to ask/get them. I know that in my program (very good university program) our medicine PD's letter reflects (but doesnt mention) our in-service scores.

I still dont know how to mention my in-service scores to cards PDs. I dont want to annoy them but also want to use my good in-service scores to my advantage. Anybody any idea on how to go about it??
you can take a copy of your score sheet and ask them to add it your application during the interview itself ,same thing I would do if some of my work get published during those 2-3 months that I feel they should know about!

I prefer this to emailing or calling as they might get annoyed by this.
 

oscillation

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I still dont know how to mention my in-service scores to cards PDs. I dont want to annoy them but also want to use my good in-service scores to my advantage. Anybody any idea on how to go about it??
Blend it in your personal statement or mention it in the mis. section of your application.
 
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Did that answer your question @Cards2012 about the in service scores? so again, what is the best way to communicate these scores? (they are not included anywhere on the application)
2-Is it ok if we do so? as the in-service objectives' sheet's results states clearly that those should be solely used for self-assessment and not for fellowship applications or considerations. Any thoughts?
If you are really concerned and it's a top priority to make the information known, you can send an email to the programs in which you briefly report the information as an addition to your application. The info will be considered and added to your file.

Happy new year everyone.
 
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Dear PC

I have a question for you. i am not sure if this has been addressed in a different thread elsewhere.

how much does USMLE scores and attempts matter during fellowship application?

is that a "definite" filtering criteria for all programs because i did nt see any score/attempt criteria in most of the program website?

does it vary from community based to academic based programs

thanks
appreciate your time for me​
 
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Hello Everyone & ProgCoordinator,

I need guidance from all you guys, I am PGY 3 resident from University affiliated community program. I could not apply for Cardiology on time and now i reviewed the application guidelines and many programs ( like 36) had application deadline of Dec 31st. I am applying tomorrow, Should i still apply to those programs or just avoid those as they wont review the application any more? Please advise me, I thank you all in advance,
 
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how much does USMLE scores and attempts matter during fellowship application?​

is that a "definite" filtering criteria for all programs because i did nt see any score/attempt criteria in most of the program website?​

does it vary from community based to academic based programs​

The only "definite" is that nothing is definite from program to program. Some filter outright and others don't. I suspect that many community programs generally have more easygoing criteria when it comes to USMLE performance. That said, if a program has asked for the scores that means that they'll consider all of that information.

:luck:
 

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Some places (in fact, quite a few) don't require that you submit USMLE scores. If your scores are not good or you failed a step, I would skip applying to programs that want you to submit USMLE scores because you are unlikely to get an interview.
 

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progcoordinator, what does it mean when one doesnt receive an interview nor a rejection from a program when that specific program has already sent out interviews and rejections. Thank you for the reply.
 
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progcoordinator, what does it mean when one doesnt receive an interview nor a rejection from a program when that specific program has already sent out interviews and rejections. Thank you for the reply.
Hey there! The Amazing Kreskin says...three possibilities:

A) They're still doling out invites and/or dismissals.
B) You missed it in your email. Perhaps it went to junk?
C) Somehow they missed adding you to the distribution.

In case the next question is, "What should I do to find out what's up?" It would be fair to send the program a nice, brief email requesting to know your status.

:luck:
 

Rheumor

7+ Year Member
Dec 10, 2010
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ProgCoordinator, I'm glad I stumbled onto the Cards forums! Who better to answer this questions than you!

I know that for residency, one is told to take any post-interview positive feedback/ranked to match calls with a grain of salt, but does this apply to fellowship as well? I thought maybe at this stage of training it would be different, because of the smaller program sizes and interviewee pool. But what do I know. I am applying to Rheumatology for 2012, if that matters. Thank you for your input! Good luck to everyone in the Match! :luck:
 
Mar 5, 2010
27
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Attending Physician
And don't discount that a surprising number of programs don't have the decency to tell you either way. You can call and ask if they are still reviewing applications and sending out invites. When I did this I didn't bother to tell my name unless they asked. The reply was usually something to the effect that if you didn't hear by now you're not getting an interview.

That being said, looking back to last year, my last interview invites can in the middle of March. March 24th. So there is still a lot of time.
 
OP
ProgCoordinator

ProgCoordinator

10+ Year Member
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Jan 19, 2007
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ProgCoordinator, I'm glad I stumbled onto the Cards forums! Who better to answer this questions than you!

I know that for residency, one is told to take any post-interview positive feedback/ranked to match calls with a grain of salt, but does this apply to fellowship as well? I thought maybe at this stage of training it would be different, because of the smaller program sizes and interviewee pool. But what do I know. I am applying to Rheumatology for 2012, if that matters. Thank you for your input! Good luck to everyone in the Match! :luck:
Still take everything with a grain of salt. At the end of the day, rank with your gut. That said...if a program reaches out to you post-interview (especially late May-ish) with an unsolicited call or email that goes beyond a general thanks-for-coming, they're probably planning to rank you within matching range. Having said THAT...there is the possibility that there are a handful of programs out there that abuse it. So, again, go with your gut.

:luck:
 
OP
ProgCoordinator

ProgCoordinator

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Jan 19, 2007
412
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And don't discount that a surprising number of programs don't have the decency to tell you either way.

That being said, looking back to last year, my last interview invites can in the middle of March. March 24th. So there is still a lot of time.
True and true. :luck:
 
May 11, 2010
7
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Status
Resident [Any Field]
Hi ProgCoordinator. I have my first interview coming up. I was wondering if you had any tips for interview day?
 
OP
ProgCoordinator

ProgCoordinator

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Jan 19, 2007
412
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Hi ProgCoordinator. I have my first interview coming up. I was wondering if you had any tips for interview day?
Congrats Chad. Just keep it simple. Be yourself. Be prepared to discuss anything from your application. Remember that you're interviewing the program, too. Not interrogating, mind you. Try to enjoy the day. And finally...please don't be a jerk to anyone.

:luck:
 

joejabjab

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Dec 4, 2006
132
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What have you all seen people wearing to pre-interview dinners? For men, any ties? Was thinking of going business casual, without a tie

-joejabjab