Soon to be USAF Airman graduating with a 2.45 and an unknown science gpa? Advice?

[TheOnlyONe]

I'll cut to the chase. I'm graduating from my school shamefully with a 2.45 in electrical engineering (I rather not say what happened, but it happened), and I am lost as to what to do. I already applied for graduation this semester, so it's kind of too late to apply for an extended semester. I also looked into post-bacculerate programs but given with my situation, I'd say it's kind of troubling to find a program I may get into. It also gets worse, as I haven't really fulfilled my pre-meds, as I only completed physics and biology.

However, I also recently enlisted in the Air Force, with intentions to serve as a "Surgical Services Specialist"; I know people here will think, "so what's the point of even asking?" and chastise me for whatever the reason but the fact is I know serving in the Air Force may not be a permanent thing and I would really like to have some options left... if I choose to get out.

So my questions are as follows:
1. Is there anything else I can do to salvage my grades after graduation? (I am aware of the Texas "fresh start" plan, but not sure if that's really the way I want to head to right now) I was thinking about taking some classes at the Air Force's Community College (if possible) and to make up whatever else is missing.
2. If I serve in the Air force as the said MOS (the stated job), would that be some benefit if I do apply to any schools?
3. Is it true that the higher the MCAT, the better the chances?

I know that it looks bad, but the fact is, I will still try if it's even worth doing. If my situation looks hopeless, please say so, so that way I may consider a career change (or make the air force a permanent job).

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Doctor Bob]

BLUF: a 2.45 GPA is pretty much going to kill your chances at medical school.

So my questions are as follows:
1. Is there anything else I can do to salvage my grades after graduation? ... I was thinking about taking some classes at the Air Force's Community College (if possible) and to make up whatever else is missing.

The AFCC will not do anything to offset a 2.45. You would have to show that you can do well at a higher level of education (masters, etc), not a lower level.

2. If I serve in the Air force as the said MOS (the stated job), would that be some benefit if I do apply to any schools?

Would it be a benefit? Sure. But it would only come in to play if you are competitive at a GPA level. Schools will never even see that you served in the military because they'll reject your application out of hand because of the low GPA.

3. Is it true that the higher the MCAT, the better the chances?

Yes. As with any standardized test, the better you do, the better your chances of getting whatever the standardized test serves as the gatekeeper for. But it is just one data point (albeit an important one).

 

[TheOnlyONe]

The AFCC will not do anything to offset a 2.45. You would have to show that you can do well at a higher level of education (masters, etc), not a lower level.

What about non-degree classes at a accredited university? I was advised that this could also help for lower GPA students (by showing the Admissions boards that you're doing the workload you were supposed to do), especially if post-bacculaurate program wasn't an option

 

[Doctor Bob]

What about non-degree classes at a accredited university? I was advised that this could also help for lower GPA students (by showing the Admissions boards that you're doing the workload you were supposed to do), especially if post-bacculaurate program wasn't an option

You would have to wait until you are done with the military. Any classes you take while in the military are going to be online or correspondence courses and those are not looked upon with much favor. And then when you're out of the military, you would need to take a course load commensurate with what you did the first time around.

 

[pharm B]

Are you expecting an experience in the Air Force to help you bolster your application? Isn't there a more direct route that would be a more efficient use of your time?

You mentioned having difficulty getting into a post-bacc, but is that well completely dry or is there at least one program that would consider you?

 

[TheOnlyONe]

Are you expecting an experience in the Air Force to help you bolster your application? Isn't there a more direct route that would be a more efficient use of your time?

You mentioned having difficulty getting into a post-bacc, but is that well completely dry or is there at least one program that would consider you?

No. I'd rather not discuss the specifics as to why I joined, since it is largely a personal matter; but part of it has to do with finances. However, I did join as a Surgical specialist because I was hoping that it help get me some experience, since I was interested in medicine.

As for the post-bacc, the problem is most places have a GPA cutoff of 2.5, so it is starting to look more and more bad for me. I know there probably are places with a 2.0 cutoff, but I'm sure that chances are that my graduating GPA isn't going to promise me a spot. I am playing devil's advocate and I'm wondering what will happen if post-bacc is not an option.

 

[Darth Doc]

I did join as a Surgical specialist because I was hoping that it help get me some experience, since I was interested in medicine.

As for the post-bacc, the problem is most places have a GPA cutoff of 2.5, so it is starting to look more and more bad for me. I know there probably are places with a 2.0 cutoff, but I'm sure that chances are that my graduating GPA isn't going to promise me a spot. I am playing devil's advocate and I'm wondering what will happen if post-bacc is not an option.

Yes, being a surgical specialist will help with your med school application, as will being in the military.

However, the biggest thing adcoms will be hesitant about is your low GPA. If you retake your lower grades DO schools do grade replacement, but you are out of the game for MD schools even with a postbac unless you have a VERY good explanation other than the usual "life got to me". They need to know you have the brains to make it through med school without failing out. Of course as others mentioned a good MCAT score is imperative.

 

[Being]

It also gets worse, as I haven't really fulfilled my pre-meds, as I only completed physics and biology.

Seems like a good thing to me, considering your situation. It's an opportunity to go back, 4.0 those courses and show that you've gotten your stuff together.

 

[alpinism]

BLUF: a 2.45 GPA is pretty much going to kill your chances at medical school.
The AFCC will not do anything to offset a 2.45. You would have to show that you can do well at a higher level of education (masters, etc), not a lower level.

Not to mention all CCAF courses are recorded as P/F on your transcript (at least in my AFSC as of 2008). Learned that the hard way back when I was first considering med school.

OP your best option would be to take post bacc courses (night courses or online courses once enlisted) and utilize grade replacement for DO schools.

 

[TheOnlyONe]

I see everyone is referring to using the grade replacement policy for DO schools, which I'm really confused about.

Isn't it too late to replace the grades after you graduate? I'm sure whatever classes you take after you get your BA/BS, it really isn't going to do anything besides show on the record that you took them, because I've read some posts here and there saying that the point of taking classes after you graduate is you're trying to prove you have some value, not because you want turn a "F" into a B. Am I right?

But on top of all that, taking classes in a non-degree program (mostly the pre-meds) is the way to go after graduation right? (Assuming that post-bacc is not an option?)

OP your best option would be to take post bacc courses (night courses or online courses once enlisted) and utilize grade replacement for DO schools.

I thought post-bacc programs are certification programs? Everywhere I looked, when the words "post-bacculearate" pops up, it usually refers to a certification program that is just as selective as grad-school. Also, I thought online courses aren't acceptable because they're not technically from a accreditted university.

Note: As I said before, I am not trying to avoid Post-Bacc. If I didn't join the military in the first place, I probably would have risked it all and applied, but the fact of the matter is, my GPA is extremely low to maybe even be considered for any program(s) existing in this country. I've looked here and there and the lowest cutout rate I've seen so far is a 2.5 and nothing lower.

 

[Five0tomed68]

BLUF: a 2.45 GPA is pretty much going to kill your chances at medical school.



The AFCC will not do anything to offset a 2.45. You would have to show that you can do well at a higher level of education (masters, etc), not a lower level.

The above is not exactly accurate. A 2.45 as it stands does not stand a chance, but it doesn't kill your future chances. The more concerning part of the post is the higher level of education aspect. Getting a Master's Degree will not greatly help your chances of getting into a program. You need to worry about undergrad GPA repair. I'm not sure about Air Force Community College and a P/F scale, but lower and upper level classes will help your chances. As mentioned above, DO grade replacement is a great option for you.

 

[TheOnlyONe]

Not to mention all CCAF courses are recorded as P/F on your transcript (at least in my AFSC as of 2008). Learned that the hard way back when I was first considering med school.

OP your best option would be to take post bacc courses (night courses or online courses once enlisted) and utilize grade replacement for DO schools.

The above is not exactly accurate. A 2.45 as it stands does not stand a chance, but it doesn't kill your future chances. The more concerning part of the post is the higher level of education aspect. Getting a Master's Degree will not greatly help your chances of getting into a program. You need to worry about undergrad GPA repair. I'm not sure about Air Force Community College and a P/F scale, but lower and upper level classes will help your chances. As mentioned above, DO grade replacement is a great option for you.

I also asked just now about the DO replacement; how exactly does grade replacement after getting your BA/BS even work? I know it doesn't actually replace your grade, unless you get into post-bacc program, which as I pointed out, will be extremely difficult to get into up to this point. I'm asking how do you exactly replace your grade? Do you take additional courses in a non-degree program? Or is there anything else I'm not aware about?

 

[Doctor Bob]

So, there is no quick fix here.

The 2.45 represents a track record of 4 years of work. Grade replacement, redoing some undergrad classes, etc, aren't going to offset the track record you already have in place.

So why do I recommend a masters degree in your case? (I don't always do that) Because you've got a military obligation ahead of you. The academic options available to you during your time in the military are somewhat limited. You won't be able to go the traditional "return to school, show improvement in the classes you did poorly on and hope for the best".

With the academic options available to you during your service commitment your 2.45 is going to stand as is. Better to let it lie, let time ameliorate that injury, then go back in the future and show that with the added maturity you can perform at a higher level. If you try and rush the process (take a bunch of on-line classes at academically non-rigorous schools) it's only going to look flimsy in the future. Fortunately you have a built in maturing mechanism: "After college I spent 5 years in the military, learned a lot, grew as a person, then went back and got my master's degree." Now the 2.45 just represents the foibles of youth.

 

[ærospallo]

I also asked just now about the DO replacement; how exactly does grade replacement after getting your BA/BS even work? I know it doesn't actually replace your grade, unless you get into post-bacc program, which as I pointed out, will be extremely difficult to get into up to this point. I'm asking how do you exactly replace your grade? Do you take additional courses in a non-degree program? Or is there anything else I'm not aware about?

When you enter your grades into AACOMAS for DO school applications, only your most recent grade for any course will be calculated. So, if you took Biology twice - first earning a D but managing an A on the retake - only the A will be calculated into your GPA for your DO application. For MD schools both the D and the A will be calculated, so although it would improve your GPA insignificantly, it would not completely replace the original D.

Also, to dispel something mentioned earlier, you CAN take full college courses at a local university while enlisted. Your options are not only online or through correspondence, neither of which would help you in pursuit of medical school.

 

[Doctor Bob]

you CAN take full college courses at a local university while enlisted...

True. But also keep in mind your life is at the whim of the military. You can't plan to stay at a location for a prolonged period of time, or have a stable 9-5 job, or not be gone for a 6-month block of time...

Regardless... this is all pretty irrelevant.
You -might- be able to take brick-and-mortar classes
You -might- be able to squeak by with grade replacement and hope that an interested adcom doesn't look further into your undergrad transcript
You -might- be able to take grad classes down the road and show an improvement

But this is all opinions by internet people based on our anecdotal experiences and 2nd hand knowledge. Go find out what's available in your area and how your command lets you structure your time. Make a plan once you have that information. The rest is just irrelevant conjecture.

 

[ærospallo]

Go find out what's available in your area and how your command lets you structure your time. Make a plan once you have that information. The rest is just irrelevant conjecture.

This.

 

[Derpz]

are you commissioning or enlisting OP? FYI Lackland sucks & BMT sucks...go officer since you have a degree

 

[Five0tomed68]

At some point the Undergrad GPA is going to have to come up. Most schools pre-screen undergrad GPAs and if you don't meet a minimum GPA your application will not be assessed by an ADCOM member making your Master's degree irrelevant.

Improving your undergrad GPA can be done on your own. It does not need to be done through a formal program (usually referred to as an informal post bacc). If you wanted to get into a formal post bacc program, a Master's may be beneficial. A masters can benefit you after you get your GPA up, but at some point the GPA is going to have to come up.

 

[Goro]

There are a number of inaccuracies here, so let's set the record straight.

There are a number of MD schools that reward reinvention and a good (>34) MCAT score. Tulane and NYMC are but two of them. To get their attention, you will need to do either a SMP or a post-bac to demonstrate that you can handle a medical school curriculum. SMPs given by med schools are the best route because they're the back door into medical school. A post-bac can be a formal program, or a DIY. However, it can't be one course/year. And B grades won't suffice here...you need to ace these things.

At the minimum, I recommend one year with Intro Bio and Inorganic or Basic Chemistry. Then a second year with Orgo and Physics, and maybe a stats course. After that, maybe genetics, molecular biology or cell biology. Don't forget that the new MCAT will have some Humanities on that, so a course or two in that field might be useful.

The fastest route to redeeming your UG grades will be via grade replacement via AACOMAS' policy. Retake any F/D/C science coursework and it does wonders for the GPA.

Overall, the ideas behind these are show that the you at app time is NOT the you of your UG years.

Good luck! And thank you for serving our country. My oldest and best friend was at Blytheville AFB(a SAC base) in AR for his tour

At some point the Undergrad GPA is going to have to come up. Most schools pre-screen undergrad GPAs and if you don't meet a minimum GPA your application will not be assessed by an ADCOM member making your Master's degree irrelevant.

Improving your undergrad GPA can be done on your own. It does no need to be done through a formal program (usually referred to as an informal post bacc). If you wanted to get into a formal post bacc program, a Master's may be beneficial. A masters can benefit you after you get your GPA up, but at some point the GPA is going to have to come up.

 

[Five0tomed68]

There are a number of inaccuracies here, so let's set the record straight.

There are a number of MD schools that reward reinvention and a good (>34) MCAT score. Tulane and NYMC are but two of them. To get their attention, you will need to do either a SMP or a post-bac to demonstrate that you can handle a medical school curriculum. SMPs given by med schools are the best route because they're the back door into medical school. A post-bac can be a formal program, or a DIY. However, it can't be one course/year. And B grades won't suffice here...you need to ace these things.

At the minimum, I recommend one year with Intro Bio and Inorganic or Basic Chemistry. Then a second year with Orgo and Physics, and maybe a stats course. After that, maybe genetics, molecular biology or cell biology. Don't forget that the new MCAT will have some Humanities on that, so a course or two in that field might be useful.

The fastest route to redeeming your UG grades will be via grade replacement via AACOMAS' policy. Retake any F/D/C science coursework and it does wonders for the GPA.

Overall, the ideas behind these are show that the you at app time is NOT the you of your UG years.

Good luck! And thank you for serving our country. My oldest and best friend was at Blytheville AFB(a SAC base) in AR for his tour

I completely agree and should have been clearer. My argument against the Masters was reference Dr. Bob's first post implying OP needs to continue their pursuit of education in higher level classes (I.e. Masters, but not specifying SMP). I think an SMP is a terrific route, but the OP would probably need to finish up the pre-reqs by way of a post bacc (informal or formal).

I do apologize for not being clearer.

 

[mavric1298]

And just one more point of clarification because I didn't see it said, when asking about once you graduate how can you replace grades; It only replaces them on your application, not at the school. So you can take the classes at two different places, at two different times (say 10 years apart at two different schools) and AACOMAS only will use the newer grade. So your school GPA doesn't change, but that's not what anyone is really looking at, your application GPA is what will change

 

[TheOnlyONe]

Hello again everyone, I profusely apologize for not coming back on, I've been dealing with things and haven't gotten the chance to get on. Now, before I finish up this thread, I just like to respond back to everyone and ask some final questions.

1. To Derpz: I'm going in enlisted because I know air force OTS isn't likely and I know I am not officer material. Contrary to popular belief, it's impossible getting into Air Force OTS, especially if you did not go into a ROTC program and if you have a very low GPA. OTS looks down on people with anything lower than a 3.8 and it is much HARDER to get in than the top 10 medical schools in the world combined, especially because only >5% actually make it to officer school (In fact, in some cases, there isn't even a selection board because there's enough officers). Even if you were in ROTC, that wouldn't necessarily raise your chances either (more than OTS, but still not guaranteed) and even if you go to OTS, commissioning is not necessarily guaranteed. In short, you cannot be a officer like that quickly, unless you went to Westpoint or any military academy. BMT is also mandatory anyways, because I remember reading somewhere officer or not, you're still going to Lackland for basic and it's unavoidable, unless you got a direct commission as member of JAG Corp or any "valued profession"; so in a nutshell, same screaming TIs, same communal showers, same PTs and same red line inspections but you're going to ots after.

2. To Doctor Bob: I'm still a bit unsure about the masters program. Because I remember scrolling through pages here and someone (well, more like a dozen) mentioned that taking pre-med classes during your masters is pretty difficult because someone said that the program(s) usually doesn't give you too much liberty as to what to take. Also, I remember hearing that because your masters program is essentially a different program, it really doesn't make any difference how well you did it because it will not fix the UG GPA since it uses a separate GPA system. But anyways, I'll have to research more, I'm not ready to pick up a masters degree brochure just yet, because that'll have to be a new challenge given my GPA right now.

3. Mavric, does it matter how much of a time difference there is in terms of when to retake the classes? Also, I'm still a bit confused as to how the system works; so does it mean that even though I write "2.45" GPA on the application, the school(s) wouldn't care as long as you made up the classes? I know I'm going to sound like an idiot the second I ask, but what exactly is an application GPA? Is that pretty much the UG GPA or a separate, updated system?

4. I've seen some people bring up a "DIY" post-bac and a "Informal" post bac. What exactly is this? Is it pretty much just taking classes in a non-degree program? (Like not an actual post-bac program?) I thought this was what it was, but majority of the time, it seems any particular reference to a post-bac is a certificate program.

By the way, Darth Doc, I thought med schools don't care one way or the other if you were in the military? I know they don't give special priority unless you did something really special, am I right?

 

[Doctor Bob]

2. To Doctor Bob: I'm still a bit unsure about the masters program. Because I remember scrolling through pages here and someone (well, more like a dozen) mentioned that taking pre-med classes during your masters is pretty difficult because someone said that the program(s) usually doesn't give you too much liberty as to what to take. Also, I remember hearing that because your masters program is essentially a different program, it really doesn't make any difference how well you did it because it will not fix the UG GPA since it uses a separate GPA system. But anyways, I'll have to research more, I'm not ready to pick up a masters degree brochure just yet, because that'll have to be a new challenge given my GPA right now.

The masters and the pre-med classes would be separate things. The point of the masters is to essentially say "I am a different person now than I was XX years ago and look, even though I did poorly in undergrad, now that I'm older I've done well at a higher level of schooling."

You would still have to go and take the pre-med courses.

Were I you, I wouldn't pick up a masters degree brochure now, or any time during the first 4 years of your AF life. The thing that will help you the most is to develop the "maturity" argument and that will only happen with time.

 

[Darth Doc]

By the way, Darth Doc, I thought med schools don't care one way or the other if you were in the military? I know they don't give special priority unless you did something really special, am I right?

There is no easy in to medical school just for being military unless you apply to USUHS. However, adcoms often look with favor at those with prior service in their EC's. If two candidates are exactly the same, but one has military service, they will pick the servicemember.

Serving in the military, with or without a deployment, shows a sense of honor, duty, integrity (in the army we call them "army values", I don't know what the AF calls them), and the ability to do the hard thing that other people don't want to do. I do believe that some schools/interviewers/adcoms are more military friendly than others.

Being a "surgical services specialist" will also give you medical experience hours that will look great for medical school. You'll be applying as a non-trad, so there will be an expectation of maturity and growth as Dr Bob said.

You're still in your twenties. You have time to complete your AF enlistment then do a master's degree and grade replacement. Don't rush things. You risk setting yourself up for more problems. Do it right.

Take every opportunity the air force gives you to excel and learn. You'll be surprised what people are willing to teach you when you show interest and do your job well. Every servicemember can tell you something negative about military life, but many of them have amazing stories and life experiences you can't get anywhere else.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Best advice is to find another career. 2.45 means you sank yourself completely. Even for DO you will need to retake all engineering because they count that for sGPA. You pretty much need a second bachelor's degree with close to a 4.0 and then hit the MCAT out of the ballpark. This all after you are done being enlisted and averages will be even higher. Accept your losses and get some engineering Masters for a better life.

 

[Derpz]

@OP I've been through Lackland...there were zero officer candidates there in my flight or our sister flight or any of the other flights in our squadron. Officer candidates never touch BMT in San Antonio...interesting to hear how competitive OTS is though and I believe you that the officer route is flooded. Army or Navy officer route maybe or coast guard? Air National Guard or USAF Reserves and go officer via that avenue? Enlisted side is rough and I just feel like if you're going active you're going to benefit so much more from being an officer + the pay is way better.

@AlbinoHawk seems pretty harsh...at worst can't OP do the academic fresh start thing in TX?

 

[DocWinter]

OP, I'm sorry to say it but I have to agree that the odds are against you and you will have to pull off some very impressive stunts if you want to get into medical school. So much so that another career choice could be enticing when you consider the length of time, money, risk and energy required to have a shot at it.

To answer your question #4, a "formal post-bac" is a program designed by colleges that people go to who have not been prepared for medical school with the proper re-req classes. You enroll and are helped along the way with all the right courses and prep work with mentors and assistance towards your goal. These programs usually cost a premium.
An "informal post-bac" is where you enroll at your local college and figure out what courses you need to take, find mentors, push yourself, make sure you are in the right classes and adequately prepared with the correct courses and timeframe. It usually costs much less than the formal route.

Thank you for your service and I wish you the best.

 

[doubletake]

You would have to wait until you are done with the military. Any classes you take while in the military are going to be online or correspondence courses and those are not looked upon with much favor. And then when you're out of the military, you would need to take a course load commensurate with what you did the first time around.

That's not necessarily true. I am active duty Air Force right now, stationed at Barksdale AFB. I had to re-take some of my college classes to get better grades before applying to school. Long story short, I was able to apply for those classes through LSUS and attend summer school during a long lunch break. I just worked everything through my supervisors and they were cool with me leaving work to take classes, as long as I made up the extra time. Unfortunately TA didn't cover it (since I already had my bachelor's degree), but I was able to get in-state tuition.

 

[TheOnlyONe]

AlbinoHawk, I honestly think that the 2nd bachelors idea is not a bad one. After all, it's the same amount of schooling as in getting a masters (maybe even cheaper in some cases), and it is pretty much starting over. However, if I had to pick another career, I'd probably stick with the military permanently. I couldn't see any benefit of getting a engineering masters, especially what's happened up to this point. After all, the military is a career isn't it? Albeit a highly respectable one (except, up to this point, if medicine truly is impossible, I'll have to pick a different MOS, maybe something with a more "combat" role like aerial gunner). Still, it seems like there are more options out there though.

Now I know people will hate me for extending a topic that has absolutely nothing to do with this site, but Derpz, I wouldn't count on trying for the other branch/reserve OTS/OCS either; they are just as competitive as Air Force (Navy is the same as Air force; Army not so much but you still need at least a 3.5) and majority of the times, they pick their crop from the academies too, except the only difference is they do have to go to basic (in army you do; you really do have to go to Ft. Benning for Boot Camp before getting to OCS). Worst part of it all is that they don't even give enlisted servicemen priority at all, maybe even much less (if you pretty much served enlisted, you can consider your opportunity to become a officer goodbye unless you go into an ROTC program or become a doctor). You could kind of see why those who become officers stick to it as their permanent job because it's so difficult to get the position. I'd probably fare better as enlisted anyways because I don't really see myself as leadership material since I'm more of a follower and because I know the thought of going to any officer school of any branch is an impossibility (I would say I have a better chance of getting into med school than OTS/OCS). Besides, the pay may be good, but all the jobs are just administrative detail, like finances or public affairs; not a lot of opportunities to get into anything health related. But I really do appreciate your concern, it does make me aware of the stark differences in officer/enlisted ranks.

 

[medic86]

That's not necessarily true. I am active duty Air Force right now, stationed at Barksdale AFB. I had to re-take some of my college classes to get better grades before applying to school. Long story short, I was able to apply for those classes through LSUS and attend summer school during a long lunch break. I just worked everything through my supervisors and they were cool with me leaving work to take classes, as long as I made up the extra time. Unfortunately TA didn't cover it (since I already had my bachelor's degree), but I was able to get in-state tuition.

They're not saying it's impossible. They're saying that you can't bank on it.

 

[medic86]

AlbinoHawk, I honestly think that the 2nd bachelors idea is not a bad one. After all, it's the same amount of schooling as in getting a masters (maybe even cheaper in some cases), and it is pretty much starting over. However, if I had to pick another career, I'd probably stick with the military permanently. I couldn't see any benefit of getting a engineering masters, especially what's happened up to this point. After all, the military is a career isn't it? Albeit a highly respectable one (except, up to this point, if medicine truly is impossible, I'll have to pick a different MOS, maybe something with a more "combat" role like aerial gunner). Still, it seems like there are more options out there though.

Now I know people will hate me for extending a topic that has absolutely nothing to do with this site, but Derpz, I wouldn't count on trying for the other branch/reserve OTS/OCS either; they are just as competitive as Air Force (Navy is the same as Air force; Army not so much but you still need at least a 3.5) and majority of the times, they pick their crop from the academies too, except the only difference is they do have to go to basic (in army you do; you really do have to go to Ft. Benning for Boot Camp before getting to OCS). Worst part of it all is that they don't even give enlisted servicemen priority at all, maybe even much less (if you pretty much served enlisted, you can consider your opportunity to become a officer goodbye unless you go into an ROTC program or become a doctor). You could kind of see why those who become officers stick to it as their permanent job because it's so difficult to get the position. I'd probably fare better as enlisted anyways because I don't really see myself as leadership material since I'm more of a follower and because I know the thought of going to any officer school of any branch is an impossibility (I would say I have a better chance of getting into med school than OTS/OCS). Besides, the pay may be good, but all the jobs are just administrative detail, like finances or public affairs; not a lot of opportunities to get into anything health related. But I really do appreciate your concern, it does make me aware of the stark differences in officer/enlisted ranks.

There's all kinds of wrong in your post about the Army.

1: West Point graduates incur a service obligation, they don't apply to go to OCS - they have to.
2: OCS candidates don't all go to Benning for BCT. They have to go to Benning for OCS after BCT.
3: The Army generally likes mustangs. If you were a good enlisted soldier with competitive stats, you have a good shot at OCS.
4: The Army offers programs to leave the military (in some cases, stay in and get paid) and earn a degree, incurring a service obligation through ROTC.
5: Joining the military with the "I'm not leadership material" mentality is not a good one. Not unless you want to spend your entire military career as an E-4.

 

[TheOnlyONe]

There's all kinds of wrong in your post about the Army.

1: West Point graduates incur a service obligation, they don't apply to go to OCS - they have to.
2: OCS candidates don't all go to Benning for BCT. They have to go to Benning for OCS after BCT.
3: The Army generally likes mustangs. If you were a good enlisted soldier with competitive stats, you have a good shot at OCS.
4: The Army offers programs to leave the military (in some cases, stay in and get paid) and earn a degree, incurring a service obligation through ROTC.
5: Joining the military with the "I'm not leadership material" mentality is not a good one. Not unless you want to spend your entire military career as an E-4.

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't too informed about commissioning for Army; but likewise, if we should continue this discussion a little longer, I've checked out every potential commissioning programs for Air Force and they will not let you leave early to join ROTC if you already have a BA/BS and seems as though they have a very tough policy for enlisted servicemen to go to OTS, which turns out to be extremely rare according to the selection announcements. All I know for Air Force is they do not let you have the same privileges if you have a college degree already, that is you start a 2nd bachelors and join ROTC at the new school, if you're not over the age limit. Obviously, the bottom line is bad grades means no OTS/OCS at all (even with good grades it's still a craps shoot).

But for the sake of studentdoctor.net, this wasn't the point of the thread, I'm not going, neither am I qualified, for OTS and I'll worry about the whole leadership thing later if military is going to be my permanent career; I'm just more concerned about what it is I need to do about fixing the damages that I made during my UG years, that is if that's even possible.

 

[TheOnlyONe]

So to recap, my choices are as following:
1. Get a masters degree, while taking pre-med classes at that same school or a different school
2. Post-Bac classes (non-degree classes at best as it seems) at a nearby school
3. Get a 2nd bachelors (Not following the 10 year rule for Texas; I mentioned earlier I'm not considering that, especially since it's not clear where I will even be stationed in)
4. Eliminate medicine completely and keep serving the USAF until retirement (as a different MOS and a non-officer)

Does this seem right? Am I missing anything else? Just out of curiosity, are Post-Bacculeurate classes (not the ceritifcation program/pre-med, I'm not qualified for it anymore; I mean like taking classes in a non-degree program), as effective in fixing the GPA at all?

 

[medic86]

So to recap, my choices are as following:
1. Get a masters degree, while taking pre-med classes at that same school or a different school
2. Post-Bac classes (non-degree classes at best as it seems) at a nearby school
3. Get a 2nd bachelors (Not following the 10 year rule for Texas; I mentioned earlier I'm not considering that, especially since it's not clear where I will even be stationed in)
4. Eliminate medicine completely and keep serving the USAF until retirement (as a different MOS and a non-officer)

Does this seem right? Am I missing anything else? Just out of curiosity, are Post-Bacculeurate classes (not the ceritifcation program/pre-med, I'm not qualified for it anymore; I mean like taking classes in a non-degree program), as effective in fixing the GPA at all?

If you decide on the DO route, you can repair your GPA by retaking all of the classes you got Fs, Ds, and Cs (within reason, of course). This is probably the most effective way to repair your GPA.

Another option, as listed by other posters above: SMPs (Special Master's Programs) are sometimes considered "backdoors" into medical school if you perform well in them. For the most part, you will need to have your premedical prerequisites complete and have taken the MCAT to apply to these programs.

Without using academic forgiveness (DO), doing a post-bacc program to repair your GPA will take forever to get above a 3.0.

Weigh your options.

 

[mavric1298]

^ to answer your question, no the time doesn't matter. What happens is you enter in all your information on the application, and THEY calculate a GPA that is distributed to the schools based on all the classes. This is what I was just terming "application" GPA. It's basically a sum of all the schooling you've done. This means that you might have lets say 3 transcripts from 3 different schools you went to, they combine everything into one GPA. They view any course that can reasonably considered the same class as only counting once, thus if you repeat, it basically makes the original grade go away, when they calculate a GPA for you.