SpaceOAR - Augmenix, Boston Scientific, and Conflicts of Interest

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Not particular to BioProtect, but interesting that acute Grade 3 toxicity (~2-3%) more common in this series for balloon vs gel spacing.
Had to look up what it actually is... I thought balloons weren't new to the specialty but that's what this looks like it is?


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Had to look up what it actually is... I thought balloons weren't new to the specialty but that's what this looks like it is?


It seems like it's a balloon shoved into the area where a spaceOAR normally sits. So not an intrarectal balloon (which is old school and laughably unnecessary), but a balloon shoved through the perineum into the space where a gel normally would go. I presume once the balloon is placed, it is inflated? I'm shocked that the people interviewed about how wonderful this is do not feel any need to explain exactly what the hell is going on during a procedure like this.

Well, not really shocked. Because 'We're going to shove a balloon into your taint' doesn't have the greatest ring to it...
 
Had to look up what it actually is... I thought balloons weren't new to the specialty but that's what this looks like it is?

The acute spacer toxicity study actually was in reference to a BioProtect product. So this product has been available other places for a long time.
 
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Have any of you guys switched to BioProtect? We are going to trial it in our clinic coming up soon. A lot of benefits relative to SpaceOAR:

1. Practically zero chance of rectal wall infiltration
2. Practically 100% reproducible spacing between rectum and prostate (vs. "spray and pray")
3. Lasts for a shorter period of time that SpaceOAR
4. Reversible
I just recently switched from SpaceOAR vue to Bioprotect balloon. I have only done a couple balloons but I think I like it better overall. The space created is a little larger and more symmetrical.

The downside is I think the procedure is a little more uncomfortable and the visibilty on the cone beam CT is not as good as SpaceOAR Vue. There is also a little bit more blood loss because of the incision/puncture.

What do you do for pain management for your patients for SpaceOAR? I was using Ativan and Percocet but was thinking to switching something like Pro-Nox to increase patient comfort.
 

Not particular to BioProtect, but interesting that acute Grade 3 toxicity (~2-3%) more common in this series for balloon vs gel spacing.

It looks like in the above paper they did a hydrodissection before placement of the baloon. I believe that the company no longer recommends doing a hydrodissction before placement as it increases risk of rectal perforation/damage. I bet if they didnt do a hydrodissction the risk of rectal perforation would be close to zero.
 
I just recently switched from SpaceOAR vue to Bioprotect balloon. I have only done a couple balloons but I think I like it better overall. The space created is a little larger and more symmetrical.

The downside is I think the procedure is a little more uncomfortable and the visibilty on the cone beam CT is not as good as SpaceOAR Vue. There is also a little bit more blood loss because of the incision/puncture.

What do you do for pain management for your patients for SpaceOAR? I was using Ativan and Percocet but was thinking to switching something like Pro-Nox to increase patient comfort.
I don’t prescribe pain meds after SpaceOAR VUE placement. But I am pretty aggressive with my local so that probably helps a lot.
 
@evilbooyaa or @Neuronix

Could one of you please move the posts on this thread regarding hydrogel management to another thread so that this conversation can be continued productively?
 
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It looks like in the above paper they did a hydrodissection before placement of the baloon. I believe that the company no longer recommends doing a hydrodissction before placement as it increases risk of rectal perforation/damage. I bet if they didnt do a hydrodissction the risk of rectal perforation would be close to zero.
This seems weird. Recent, fairly comprehensive pubs on practicalities of space placement emphasize hydrodissection (which in principal I would think of as a safety measure).


Edit: I can think of a hypothesis here (bad hydro causes perforation and focal weakness in rectal wall), but do not see anything validating that hydrodissection is the cause of balloon perforation. This product (available in Europe for 14 years or so?) is now being sold to US docs as the solution to spacer associated toxicity. It is not clear to me that we have any data validating this position.
 
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the issue for me is that one or major 2 events out of 1000 balloons placed probably offsets any benefit.

yup.

I think after all the massaging of the data I've decided that in practical terms with the gel we are looking at a slight drop in % chance they'd need APC coagulation of proctitis (say from ?high single digits to low single digits?) and go from 0% to 1-2% chance of a major major problem.
 
...and I would rather have APC coagulation performed than barrier gel placement, as you don't have to violate the wall of any organ.
 
@evilbooyaa or @Neuronix

Could one of you please move the posts on this thread regarding hydrogel management to another thread so that this conversation can be continued productively?
I think pre/post-meds around SpaceOAR is of relevance in the thread discussiong spaceOAR and other rectal balloons.

The other stuff about the evils of Benzos I'm going to move into its own thread
 
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A perusal of last months MAUDE reports.

Event Description
It was reported that after a hydrogel spacer injection, the patient experienced a rectal wall infiltration.As a consequence, the patient's radiation treatment was delayed.Additionally, the patient underwent a bowel diversion.At the time of this report, the patient's status remains unknown.

Event Description
It was reported to boston scientific corporation that a spaceoar vue device was implanted during a spaceoar vue placement procedure on (b)(6) 2023.The patient underwent radiation treatment with no issue.Three months later, during the follow up routine the patient complained of pressure while urinating and stated that each time he had to urinate, it felt like to have a bowel movement.On (b)(6) 2024, on flex sigmoidoscopy it was noted that he had developed a fistula in the anal verge of 10-12 cm, a biopsy was performed, this showed an ulceration and fibrous exudates, not related to radiation protopathic.Then on magnetic resonance imaging (mri) an abscess was identified to be connecting with the fistula.The abscess was identified in the area where the hydrogel was, a drain was placed to improve the patient's symptoms, however the drain failed.No further information was provided including the patient current condition.

Event Description
It was reported that a spaceoar hydrogel device and fiducial markers were placed on (b)(6) 2024.On (b)(6) 2024, the patient experienced rectal bleeding without urinary symptoms.After a period of no communication, the patient visited the physician on janua(b)(6) 2024, for lupron treatment and began radiation therapy.In mid (b)(6) 2024, the patient underwent computerized tomography (ct) scans and had emergency department visits, the patient was diagnosed with temporal arteritis/wegener's.On (b)(6) 2024, the patient presented to the emergency room with bloodwork concerns and developed chills.A planning magnetic resonance imaging did not show any visible hydrogel.In (b)(6) 2024, the patient's ct scan revealed that the hydrogel spacer was located entirely within the bladder.Additionally, the patient had an abscess located between the left posterior lateral portion of the bladder (near the left neurovascular bundle) and the left pelvis, which was drained percutaneously.It was suspected that the abscess had no relation with the hydrogel placement due to its location.The patient has been having irritative urinary symptoms.It was noted an attempt to remove the hydrogel will be performed through a cystoscopy.It was reported that the patient will consult with a colorectal surgeon to explore potential surgical drainage options due to the re-accumulation of the abscess.However, it was not indicated if it had yet occurred.

Event Description
It was reported to boston scientific corporation that a spaceoar device was implanted during a spaceoar placement procedure on (b)(6) 2024.The images revealed that some of the hydrogel was placed into the rectal wall, in the serosa and penetrated the muscularis.On the sagittal view the hydrogel seemed to be near to the apex of the prostate.Due to the event the stereotactic body radiation treatment (sbrt) was delayed, to avoid the risk of ulceration.The patient was report asymptomatic.

Event Description
It was reported that a patient who received a hydrogel spacer and fiducial markers under general anesthesia, experienced hydrogel a misplacement.The hydrogel was identified to be in the posterior prostate and rectum, extending to the anterior wall of the lower rectum.The patient was reported to be asymptomatic, and the expectation is to be fully recovered.

Event Description
It was reported that a hydrogel spacer was implanted on an unknown date.The implant procedure was uneventful and appeared satisfactory on ultrasound.Post-procedure, the computerized tomography scans and magnetic resonance imaging were reviewed, and it was observed presence of hydrogel around the patient's prostate capsule.The patient was reported to be in good condition without pelvic symptoms.

Event Description
It was reported to boston scientific corporation that a spaceoar device was implanted during a spaceoar placement procedure performed on an unknown date.Fiducial markers were placed prior to injection.The procedure was performed with local anesthesia.The patient completed 10 of 28 fractions of radiation therapy, when spaceoar and fiducial markers were implanted.After the procedure, the patient experienced rectal bleeding and passed what it appeared to be mucus through the rectum.Later, the cone beam computed tomography (cbct) showed that no hydrogel was present.The physician decided to put the radiation treatment on hold.Magnetic resonance imaging (mri) is planned.The patient's current condition is unknown at the time of this report.

Event Description
Following the placement of a hydrogel spacer, the patient experienced an aphylactic reaction.The symptoms included a severe whole body rash, decreased blood pressure, and decreased consciousness.The anesthesiologist promptly administered epinephrine and steroids, stabilizing the patient's symptoms.However, due to the severity of the rash and uncertainty about further treatment, the patient was transferred to another hospital.Fortunately, the patient's condition improved, and was discharged the next day.In the physician's assessment, the exact cause of the anaphylactic reaction remains uncertain, as various drugs were used during the procedure.

Event Description
It was reported that four days after the hydrogel spacer placement, the patient experienced a fever.Subsequent scans revealed that the patient developed an abscess, which was then drained using a transperineal approach.The patient was then reported to be in stable condition.The formation of the abscess was linked to the injection needle inadvertently catching the rectal wall.

Event Description
It was reported to boston scientific corporation that a spaceoar vue device was implanted during a spaceoar vue placement procedure approximately on second week of april.Upon the magnetic resonance imaging (mri) reviewed the patient the physician suspected that the patient had an infiltration of the hydrogel in the rectal wall and apex.No patient complications have been reported as resulted of this event, his condition it's unknown.

Event Description
It was reported to boston scientific corporation that a spaceoar device was implanted during a spaceoar placement procedure on unknown date.After the placement, it was reported that either the hydrogel or ulcer was observed during a rectal endoscopy.The physician indicated that this information needed to be confirmed.However, at the time of this report it was not confirmed if the patient had a perforation or rectal ulcer.No patient injury was reported as outcome of this event.

Event Description
It was reported that during a hydrogel spacer placement procedure, the injection was performed with no resistance.In the physician's assessment, the injection was different than usual.Thus, the physician was worried about the placement and followed the patient through magnetic resonance imaging (mri).Although no additional details were provided, the image was sent to boston scientific corporation, and further review of the mri revealed a potential misplacement.There were no patient complications as a result of this event.Additional information.Further examination of the provided imaging revealed a vascular misplacement of the spaceoar hydrogel.

Event Description
It was reported to boston scientific corporation that a spaceoar device was implanted during a spaceoar placement procedure on (b)(6), 2024.The procedure was performed with local anesthesia.During the procedure the view was not obstructive.A rectal wall infiltration of the hydrogel was confirmed through a magnetic resonance imaging (mri).The rectal wall infiltration was identified to be in a small part of the rectum, the patient reported having constipation symptoms, however, is unclear if the patient's symptoms could be related to the event.It was informed that the patient was hospitalized for one day, and was prescribed with magmitt.The problem seemed to be ongoing.It was decided to postpone the patient's radiation treatment.The patient's current condition was reported as stable.

Event Description
It was reported to boston scientific corporation that a spaceoar vue device was implanted during a spaceoar vue placement procedure on unknown date.Fiducial markers were placed transperineally.The procedure was performed under general anesthesia.The perirectal space was aspirated during hydrodissection to check for blood indicating a vascular placement.No blood was noted during hydrodissection.An unknown number of days after the procedure, the patient complained of rectal pain and leakage from the rectum.Computed tomography (ct) and magnetic resonance imaging (mri) scan were reviewed, the ct scan showed that there was hyperdense hydrogel within the small veins surrounding the prostate and lower rectum, it also extends into the iliac vein.On mri, it was noted a rectal wall edema, the volume of the hydrogel anterior of the rectum than expected, it seemed that a reflux of the hydrogel results into the venous system congestion that cause the edema.The patient was referred to a gastrointestinal surgeon.The patient condition was reported as ongoing.

Event Description
It was reported to boston scientific corporation that a spaceoar device was implanted during a spaceoar placement procedure on late january.The procedure was performed with local anesthesia.Later, around three weeks later, the patient started radiation treatment, at the same time the patient started with urinary problems, a foley catheter was implanted, this event developed into pain in the pelvis and with urination.The radiation treatment finished on at the end of march.The patient's pain was worse and was spreading to his abdomen, therefore, the patient had a computed tomography (ct) scan that showed a fluid collection where the hydrogel was supposed to be, around 5cm around.Due to this event, the patient was prescribed with antibiotics for two weeks.The physician kept his watch on this patient and will considerer to drain the fluid.The patient current condition is unknown at the time of this report.
 

It was reported to boston scientific corporation that a spaceoar device was implanted during a spaceoar placement procedure performed on an unknown date.Fiducial markers were placed prior to injection.The procedure was performed with local anesthesia.The patient completed 10 of 28 fractions of radiation therapy, when spaceoar and fiducial markers were implanted.After the procedure, the patient experienced rectal bleeding and passed what it appeared to be mucus through the rectum.Later, the cone beam computed tomography (cbct) showed that no hydrogel was present.The physician decided to put the radiation treatment on hold.Magnetic resonance imaging (mri) is planned.The patient's current condition is unknown at the time of this report.


wtf. It’s the Wild West out there.
 
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It was reported to boston scientific corporation that a spaceoar device was implanted during a spaceoar placement procedure performed on an unknown date.Fiducial markers were placed prior to injection.The procedure was performed with local anesthesia.The patient completed 10 of 28 fractions of radiation therapy, when spaceoar and fiducial markers were implanted.After the procedure, the patient experienced rectal bleeding and passed what it appeared to be mucus through the rectum.Later, the cone beam computed tomography (cbct) showed that no hydrogel was present.The physician decided to put the radiation treatment on hold.Magnetic resonance imaging (mri) is planned.The patient's current condition is unknown at the time of this report.


wtf. It’s the Wild West out there.
AMAZING

Just...amazing.

Who wants to take bets on if this physician has FASTRO after their name?
 
I wonder what happened to the fiducials? 🤔
Probably still there I'm guessing, no comment on those, no reason to think they were with the hydrogel unless it was an awful placement of both.

I've never heard of defecating that hydrogel but I guess it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility
 
Looks like they had at least a 24% risk of rectal wall infiltration with SpaceOAR in the original trial instead of the 6% that was previously reported. 37% risk if grade 1 rectal wall infiltration is included.
 
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Looks like they had at least a 24% risk of rectal wall infiltration with SpaceOAR in the original trial instead of the 6% that was previously reported.

That is completely consistent with my experience.

I had a patient with rectal wall infiltration (I didn't place it, urology did) about 4-5 years ago. I started getting routine post spaceOAR MRI's and having our rectal MRI reader look at them. I would say he would find about a third had asymptomatic rectal wall infiltration of some level.

I have really backed off spaceOAR. Have many mixed feelings about it. Probably only 1 in 5 or even less are now are getting it.

===

WIth all that said, the spin on this article will be it's perfectly fine to have rectal wall infiltration of the gel, it doesn't result in long term rectal toxicity.

However, authors are recommending some caution if you see RWI

" In men with post-procedure rectal sequelae and/or a RWI score of 3, we suggest conservative management with serial imaging for approximately 6 months until near complete gel dissolution to minimize causing further treatment-related complications. In those asymptomatic patients post-implant with a RWI score of 0-2, proceeding with definitive RT may be considered, as only one of the 36 cases of RWI treated with RT in our study developed a late rectal toxicity."

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It all just seems like a lot of potential badness for a marginal benefit the more I look at it all. 4% of patients had a RWI score of 3....so they rec'd you delay start to xrt. If unfav int risk or high risk does that then buy them neoadj ADT? How good/confident do you feel defining RWI of 2 vs 3, because there are 20% of patients with RWI score of 2.
 
That is completely consistent with my experience.

I had a patient with rectal wall infiltration (I didn't place it, urology did) about 4-5 years ago. I started getting routine post spaceOAR MRI's and having our rectal MRI reader look at them. I would say he would find about a third had asymptomatic rectal wall infiltration of some level.

I have really backed off spaceOAR. Have many mixed feelings about it. Probably only 1 in 5 or even less are now are getting it.

===

WIth all that said, the spin on this article will be it's perfectly fine to have rectal wall infiltration of the gel, it doesn't result in long term rectal toxicity.

However, authors are recommending some caution if you see RWI

" In men with post-procedure rectal sequelae and/or a RWI score of 3, we suggest conservative management with serial imaging for approximately 6 months until near complete gel dissolution to minimize causing further treatment-related complications. In those asymptomatic patients post-implant with a RWI score of 0-2, proceeding with definitive RT may be considered, as only one of the 36 cases of RWI treated with RT in our study developed a late rectal toxicity."

====

It all just seems like a lot of potential badness for a marginal benefit the more I look at it all. 4% of patients had a RWI score of 3....so they rec'd you delay start to xrt. If unfav int risk or high risk does that then buy them neoadj ADT? How good/confident do you feel defining RWI of 2 vs 3, because there are 20% of patients with RWI score of 2.

Boston Scientific is not paying me enough to play this game ($0).

Is this the first time "procedure-related" toxicity has been reported out of this trial? This adds to my discussion with patients, as it seems they face at least a 5% toxicity risk associated with the procedure.

To gauge whether the depth of RWI was associated with rectal toxicity, the relationships between rectal adverse events and RWI categories were examined (Table 4). Although 7 of the 149 subjects (5%) had a procedure-related rectal toxicity, only one of them had genuine RWI (RWI score of 2, with a grade 1 CTCAE toxicity). Four of the 7 men with a procedure-related rectal adverse event had a RWI score of 0, implicating the lack of correlation (p=0.64) between rectal toxicity and presence/extent of RWI. Perineal/rectal pain was the most frequently reported procedure-related rectal toxicity (6 of 7 men), with rectal bleeding reported in just 1 subject. The worst procedure-related rectal adverse event had a CTCAE grade of 2 (observed in 3 of 7 subjects). Although 4 of the 7 men with a procedural-related rectal toxicity continued to experience an acute rectal toxicity during RT, these rectal toxicities did not translate into late rectal adverse events; all 7 men had resolution of their rectal toxicity within 90 days of the implant procedure.
 
Boston Scientific is not paying me enough to play this game ($0).

Is this the first time "procedure-related" toxicity has been reported out of this trial? This adds to my discussion with patients, as it seems they face at least a 5% toxicity risk associated with the procedure.

I'd have to look at the original publication....the adverse events reported were incredibly low though. I believe reported zero or only 1 rectal wall infiltration initially.

This seems like when a news organization or influencer publishes a story/posts on social media with fantastic headlines to hundreds of thousands of reactions/viewers/readers then issues a retraction a few months later buried in a tweet that no one reads.
 
I've mostly backed off from sending patients for them. If a patient asks me about it I typically tell them the following:

We've been doing radiation for decades with minimal rectal toxicity. The estimated risk of symptomatic GI toxicity is < 5%. It is unclear if there is any benefit to doing spacers. If there is it's likely to be exceedingly small because when you have a treatment that's exceptionally good at baseline, it takes a lot to make it better. SpaceOARs are an invasive procedure and while the risk of toxicity may be low (debatable), it's not zero. Patients have required colostomies from incorrect placement and I have personally had patients with rectal infiltration resulting in severe bleeding causing us to delay treatment by months with unclear impact on treatment outcome.

So ultimately, it is an extra procedure with inherent and potentially catastrophic risks. At worst, we do nothing to improve GI toxicity. At best we make an exceptionally well tolerated treatment more complex/expensive and...minimally more exceptionally well tolerated maybe?

The only people truly benefitting are Spacer companies, the people getting paid to place Spacers, and the people getting paid to convince other people that it's necessary.
 
I've mostly backed off from sending patients for them. If a patient asks me about it I typically tell them the following:

We've been doing radiation for decades with minimal rectal toxicity. The estimated risk of symptomatic GI toxicity is < 5%. It is unclear if there is any benefit to doing spacers. If there is it's likely to be exceedingly small because when you have a treatment that's exceptionally good at baseline, it takes a lot to make it better. SpaceOARs are an invasive procedure and while the risk of toxicity may be low (debatable), it's not zero. Patients have required colostomies from incorrect placement and I have personally had patients with rectal infiltration resulting in severe bleeding causing us to delay treatment by months with unclear impact on treatment outcome.

So ultimately, it is an extra procedure with inherent and potentially catastrophic risks. At worst, we do nothing to improve GI toxicity. At best we make an exceptionally well tolerated treatment more complex/expensive and...minimally more exceptionally well tolerated maybe?

The only people truly benefitting are Spacer companies, the people getting paid to place Spacers, and the people getting paid to convince other people that it's necessary.

In my experience there are pockets of patients that are really interested...

-- had second opinion at an academic center then wanted their treatment back home. academic center was really into the spaceOAR so then how hard am I going to fight that opinion?

-- had a relative or friend with a bad toxicity from radiation (even if not prostate-related)

-- went online on the spaceOAR website and were convinced.
 
In my experience there are pockets of patients that are really interested...

-- had second opinion at an academic center then wanted their treatment back home. academic center was really into the spaceOAR so then how hard am I going to fight that opinion?

-- had a relative or friend with a bad toxicity from radiation (even if not prostate-related)

-- went online on the spaceOAR website and were convinced.
Yea similar experience. The people that do it are so gungho about it that it's basically impossible to talk someone out of it at that point.
 
So the question is why were the academics pushing this so hard? Another example of a medical reversal?
 
So the question is why were the academics pushing this so hard? Another example of a medical reversal?

I think it's a combo of things. Not all nefarious.

Less busy academics that have the time to do them and are true believers in it. 12 patients under treat , etc. A way to demonstrate how different and "cutting edge" you are. I think that phenomenon exists.

But certainly some hefty payments from Boston Scientific haven't hurt.

It's also a cycle...one guy in town starts doing it and you feel like you better offer it as well. It's not all academics, some private practices push it as well.

===

At least they did run a phase III trial, so not exactly a shining beacon of medical reversal where I think of people doing stuff then they finally run the trial and it's negative.

It's in NCCN guidelines, there's a "positive" trial.

So there is data out there.
 
-- had second opinion at an academic center then wanted their treatment back home. academic center was really into the spaceOAR so then how hard am I going to fight that opinion?

I dont fight it. I literally say, "I do not recommend this for my patients and here is why" and we review the data. If they want it I give them the paper.

I have had a single person in the last year that wanted to still get SpaceOAR. I think that says A LOT about the people doing 100 cases of SpaceOAR a year.

Of course, if we do all that and they still want it, Im not going to stop them. I value autonomy even more than quashing scummy RO bias haha.

At least they did run a phase III trial, so not exactly a shining beacon of medical reversal where I think of people doing stuff then they finally run the trial and it's negative.

This is the new thing. Its a phase III trial, why is everyone so negative about it!

As if simply running any trial of any phase III design and any question is sufficient... because it is now. The goal is to get the device to market, publish the trial, celebrate the positive. I've stopped fighting this and just openly talk about how I have zero respect for the ROs playing this game.

This problem is getting worse IMO.
 
I dont fight it. I literally say, "I do not recommend this for my patients and here is why" and we review the data. If they want it I give them the paper.

I have had a single person in the last year that wanted to still get SpaceOAR. I think that says A LOT about the people doing 100 cases of SpaceOAR a year.

Of course, if we do all that and they still want it, Im not going to stop them. I value autonomy even more than quashing scummy RO bias haha.



This is the new thing. Its a phase III trial, why is everyone so negative about it!

As if simply running any trial of any phase III design and any question is sufficient... because it is now. The goal is to get the device to market, publish the trial, celebrate the positive. I've stopped fighting this and just openly talk about how I have zero respect for the ROs playing this game.

This problem is getting worse IMO.
It’s definitely getting worse, even in the community setting. It’s easy for spacer enthusiasts to distort the data and convince patients that RT would be unsafe without a rectal spacer, even though none of our modern studies demonstrated significant rates of rectal toxicity without the use of spacers.
 
Looks like partiQOL proton vs. photon for prostate is an astro abstract. about half of the patients on that trial had spaceOAR (i suspect more in the proton arm).

I am curious to see if we ever get data at it pertains to bowel QoL and spaceOAR as an offshoot. I know not planned for that, but would still be interesting to see.
 
Three things made me change my opinion of spaceOAR from positive to negative:

1) Boston Scientific dinner presentation to doctors where they started the talk by saying “we got to a huge milestone, $1 billion in annual sales, GU is a priority for us”

2) An ASTRO annual meeting panel of big name academic rad onc’s in which they sidestepped or ignored questions on rectal wall infiltration. It was frankly embarrassing and uncomfortable to watch.

3) Severe rectal wall infiltration in a patient I referred to a busy community urologist, it was most concerning to me that he was oblivious to the RWI and did not recognize or acknowledge it on MRI, we did not routinely order MRI’s after spaceOAR placement; patient’s XRT was delayed at least 6 months; and his spaceOAR for other patients was usually in the wrong location, at level of or even cranial to the prostate base

Even in the hands of an “experienced” mskcc doc the RWI rates are higher than acceptable

It’s just another grift, partly pushed by rad onc’s using protons
 
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even though none of our modern studies demonstrated significant rates of rectal toxicity without the use of spacers.
I don't know why people keep saying this.

Long-term findings of rectal endoscopy and rectal bleeding after moderately hypofractionated, intensity-modulated radiotherapy for prostate cancer - Scientific Reports (Interesting to note that this series incorporated rectal balloon placement).

I am not a SpaceOAR enthusiast, and I may have just seen my first major SpaceOAR related complication (will keep board posted...there is still some uncertainty about the case).

But, I do believe that a well placed spacer will reduce the risk of late rectal bleeding (which is very rarely over Grade 2). This is frankly pretty common in older patients, largely because so many of them are anticoagulated in the modern era. Low volume rectal bleeding is a nuisance and buys you a GI intervention.

The data from the original publication was not great. I do not believe any of the other outcome measures (erectile function?), and the rare severe side effects are very concerning and certainly would not have been evident in the original small study.

So the question is why were the academics pushing this so hard?
This is where as a community we need to push back when things are not really making sense and when lived experience isn't jibing with small trial data or even worse, things like correlative studies for molecular biomarkers. Real world (non-randomized) data matters a lot when assessing severe but rare toxicity outcomes.

The academics are the entrepreneurs to some degree. Just look at the Frontiers paper regarding DecisionRT for DCIS. There isn't an author without a COI...and these folks are the type to have clout when it comes to consensus guideline revision.
 
GI intervention with CO2 laser ablation is less toxic than SpaceOAR placement, as laser ablation does not involve penetration of the rectal wall. I would rather take a (very small) chance at needing CO2 ablation than sign up for a 100% chance of needing a SpaceOAR.

My prostate patients have very, very few GI problems in the short- or long-term, and I follow them for 15 years after treatment.

It is baffling to me that so many push so hard for the SpaceOAR. Given the data, I am forced to assume it is due to..."non-scientific" reasons.
 
GI intervention with CO2 laser ablation is less toxic than SpaceOAR placement, as laser ablation does not involve penetration of the rectal wall. I would rather take a (very small) chance at needing CO2 ablation than sign up for a 100% chance of needing a SpaceOAR.
It's a good take...although ablation only effective roughly 50% of the time and GI docs get squeamish about too many repeated procedures due to mucosal thinning.

very, very few GI problems
Do you believe that your rate of late Grade 2 rectal bleeding is really less than ~5-10% in patients already anti-coagulated at time of treatment?

To my knowledge, I have never caused transfusion dependent bleeding.
 
It's a good take...although ablation only effective roughly 50% of the time and GI docs get squeamish about too many repeated procedures due to mucosal thinning.


Do you believe that your rate of late Grade 2 rectal bleeding is really less than ~5-10% in patients already anti-coagulated at time of treatment?

To my knowledge, I have never caused transfusion dependent bleeding.

I have never caused transfusion-dependent bleeding that I know of as well.

I do believe that my rate of Grade 2 rectal bleeding is less than 10% and likely less than 5%. I just don't see it that often at all and have been doing 40 in 5 SBRT for years now.

Agree re: ablation needing more than 1 go around from time to time. My GI referring docs don't have a problem with Round 2 and I've never seen a problem with it.

I have, however, heard about a Grade 5 toxicity from SpaceOAR placement, directly from the radonc who placed it and was there for the code afterwards.
 
Just wanted to post this here:

proton trial totally negative

Prostate Advanced Radiation Technologies Investigating Quality of Life (PARTIQoL): Phase III Randomized Clinical Trial of Proton Therapy vs. IMRT for Localized Prostate Cancer​

J.A. Efstathiou1 ∙ B.Y. Yeap2 ∙ J.M. Michalski3∙ … ∙ N.P. Mendenhall11 ∙ E.M. Soffen12 ∙ J.E. Bekelman4… Show more
Affiliations & NotesArticle Info



Abstract​

Purpose/Objective(s)​

Patients with localized prostate cancer have several treatment options including external beam radiotherapy with either photons or protons. Proton beam therapy (PBT) has certain dosimetric advantages with the potential to reduce treatment-associated morbidity and improve oncologic outcomes, but it is generally more resource intensive than intensity modulated radiation therapy (IMRT). To address the hypothesis that PBT results in improved patient-reported outcomes (PROs), PARTIQoL (NCT01617161) was conducted as a multi-center phase 3 randomized trial comparing the two modalities.

Materials/Methods​

Patients with intermediate- or low-risk prostate cancer were randomized to PBT or IMRT, without hormonal therapy, stratified for institution, age, rectal spacer use, and fractionation (79.2 Gy/44 fractions vs 70 Gy/28 fractions). Participants were followed longitudinally to assess PROs of bowel, urinary, and sexual function for 60 months (mo) after completion of radiotherapy. Primary endpoint was to compare change from baseline in bowel quality of life (QOL) using the health care software score (range 0-100) at 24 mo. Secondary objectives include comparison of urinary and sexual functions, toxicity, and efficacy endpoints.

Results​

Between 06/2012-11/2021, 450 patients from 30 recruiting centers were randomized: PBT (N=226) and IMRT (N=224), of whom 221 and 216 were eligible and started radiation on the respective arms. Median follow-up was 60.3 mo among 424 patients still alive. Median age was 68 yrs (range 46-89), 59% had intermediate-risk disease, 51% received hypofractionation, 48% used a rectal spacer, and 49% of PBT patients were treated with pencil beam scanning. There was no difference between PBT or IMRT in mean change of health care software bowel score at 24 mo (p=0.836), with both arms showing only small, clinically non-meaningful decline from baseline (see Table). Similarly, there was no difference in bowel function at earlier timepoints (3, 6, 9, 12, 18 mo) or later timepoints (36, 48, 60 mo). No differences were observed in other domains (urinary, sexual, hormonal) at any timepoint. There was no difference in progression-free survival (PFS) (93.4% vs 93.7% at 60 mo, HR 1.16 [0.53, 2.57], p=0.706). There was no sustained difference in any QOL domain or PFS between arms in subgroups defined by stratification variables.

Conclusion​

This prospective randomized clinical trial shows that patients treated with contemporary radiotherapy for localized prostate cancer achieve excellent QOL with highly effective tumor control, without measurable differences between PBT and IMRT. We continue to monitor participants for longer follow-up and secondary endpoints.

BA 01 – Table 1
Health care software bowel score Mean (Std Dev)PBT (N=221)IMRT (N=216)p-value
Baseline93.7 (7.8)93.5 (7.9)
24 mo91.8 (11.1)91.9 (8.6)
Change-2.4 (9.7)-2.2 (9.1)0.836
 
I've never heard of a Grade 5 toxicity from VMAT without a spacer.

As noted above, I have indeed heard about a Grade 5 toxicity from SpaceOAR placement.
And colostomies and exents etc. No biggie

Did they ever figure out exactly how that guy died? That's just crazy
 
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I’ll fess up…I’ve had one prostate patient that needed transfusions for proctitis. Elderly dude with Gleason 9 disease and posterior EPE not eligible for spaceOAR anyway. Had heart issues and need anti coags. Had some issues with laser , it worked for a while then didn’t work much.

I felt awful.

I still think about his case. His prostate /tumor shrank a lot during treatment and I re sim’d him once. Maybe should have given him longer pre treatment ADT to stabilize shrinkage and or re planned > once.

Outside of that I think my rectal bleeds have been rare and when they do happen CO2 laser works.

I do think we all under estimate late bleeds because patients quit following up. Your 65 year old healthy dude eventually becomes a 75 year old with a fib that needs anti coagulation…but his radiation to his rectum is still there.
 
Last edited:
Just wanted to post this here:

proton trial totally negative

Prostate Advanced Radiation Technologies Investigating Quality of Life (PARTIQoL): Phase III Randomized Clinical Trial of Proton Therapy vs. IMRT for Localized Prostate Cancer​

J.A. Efstathiou1 ∙ B.Y. Yeap2 ∙ J.M. Michalski3∙ … ∙ N.P. Mendenhall11 ∙ E.M. Soffen12 ∙ J.E. Bekelman4… Show more
Affiliations & NotesArticle Info



Abstract​

Purpose/Objective(s)​

Patients with localized prostate cancer have several treatment options including external beam radiotherapy with either photons or protons. Proton beam therapy (PBT) has certain dosimetric advantages with the potential to reduce treatment-associated morbidity and improve oncologic outcomes, but it is generally more resource intensive than intensity modulated radiation therapy (IMRT). To address the hypothesis that PBT results in improved patient-reported outcomes (PROs), PARTIQoL (NCT01617161) was conducted as a multi-center phase 3 randomized trial comparing the two modalities.

Materials/Methods​

Patients with intermediate- or low-risk prostate cancer were randomized to PBT or IMRT, without hormonal therapy, stratified for institution, age, rectal spacer use, and fractionation (79.2 Gy/44 fractions vs 70 Gy/28 fractions). Participants were followed longitudinally to assess PROs of bowel, urinary, and sexual function for 60 months (mo) after completion of radiotherapy. Primary endpoint was to compare change from baseline in bowel quality of life (QOL) using the health care software score (range 0-100) at 24 mo. Secondary objectives include comparison of urinary and sexual functions, toxicity, and efficacy endpoints.

Results​

Between 06/2012-11/2021, 450 patients from 30 recruiting centers were randomized: PBT (N=226) and IMRT (N=224), of whom 221 and 216 were eligible and started radiation on the respective arms. Median follow-up was 60.3 mo among 424 patients still alive. Median age was 68 yrs (range 46-89), 59% had intermediate-risk disease, 51% received hypofractionation, 48% used a rectal spacer, and 49% of PBT patients were treated with pencil beam scanning. There was no difference between PBT or IMRT in mean change of health care software bowel score at 24 mo (p=0.836), with both arms showing only small, clinically non-meaningful decline from baseline (see Table). Similarly, there was no difference in bowel function at earlier timepoints (3, 6, 9, 12, 18 mo) or later timepoints (36, 48, 60 mo). No differences were observed in other domains (urinary, sexual, hormonal) at any timepoint. There was no difference in progression-free survival (PFS) (93.4% vs 93.7% at 60 mo, HR 1.16 [0.53, 2.57], p=0.706). There was no sustained difference in any QOL domain or PFS between arms in subgroups defined by stratification variables.

Conclusion​

This prospective randomized clinical trial shows that patients treated with contemporary radiotherapy for localized prostate cancer achieve excellent QOL with highly effective tumor control, without measurable differences between PBT and IMRT. We continue to monitor participants for longer follow-up and secondary endpoints.

BA 01 – Table 1
Health care software bowel score Mean (Std Dev)PBT (N=221)IMRT (N=216)p-value
Baseline93.7 (7.8)93.5 (7.9)
24 mo91.8 (11.1)91.9 (8.6)
Change-2.4 (9.7)-2.2 (9.1)0.836
I keep wondering when Medicare or private insurance just says “here is an Imrt rate but we aren’t paying proton rates for prostate”
 
I’ll fess up…I’ve had one prostate patient that needed transfusions for proctitis. Elderly dude with Gleason 9 disease and posterior EPE not eligible for spaceOAR anyway. Had heart issues and need anti coags. Had some issues with laser , it worked for a while then didn’t work much.

I felt awful.

I still think about his case. His prostate /tumor shrank a lot during treatment and I re sim’d him once. Maybe should have given him longer pre treatment ADT to stabilize shrinkage and or re planned > once.

Outside of that I think my rectal bleeds have been rare and when they do happen CO2 laser works.

I do think we all under estimate late bleeds because patients quit following up. Your 65 year old healthy dude eventually becomes a 75 year old with a fib that needs anti coagulation…but his radiation to his rectum is still there.
Plus I feel like it's the minority of men that I'm seeing on anticoag, and still very low rates of proctitis in my follow up clinic alternating with GU
 
Just wanted to post this here:

proton trial totally negative

Prostate Advanced Radiation Technologies Investigating Quality of Life (PARTIQoL): Phase III Randomized Clinical Trial of Proton Therapy vs. IMRT for Localized Prostate Cancer​

J.A. Efstathiou1 ∙ B.Y. Yeap2 ∙ J.M. Michalski3∙ … ∙ N.P. Mendenhall11 ∙ E.M. Soffen12 ∙ J.E. Bekelman4… Show more
Affiliations & NotesArticle Info



Abstract​

Purpose/Objective(s)​

Patients with localized prostate cancer have several treatment options including external beam radiotherapy with either photons or protons. Proton beam therapy (PBT) has certain dosimetric advantages with the potential to reduce treatment-associated morbidity and improve oncologic outcomes, but it is generally more resource intensive than intensity modulated radiation therapy (IMRT). To address the hypothesis that PBT results in improved patient-reported outcomes (PROs), PARTIQoL (NCT01617161) was conducted as a multi-center phase 3 randomized trial comparing the two modalities.

Materials/Methods​

Patients with intermediate- or low-risk prostate cancer were randomized to PBT or IMRT, without hormonal therapy, stratified for institution, age, rectal spacer use, and fractionation (79.2 Gy/44 fractions vs 70 Gy/28 fractions). Participants were followed longitudinally to assess PROs of bowel, urinary, and sexual function for 60 months (mo) after completion of radiotherapy. Primary endpoint was to compare change from baseline in bowel quality of life (QOL) using the health care software score (range 0-100) at 24 mo. Secondary objectives include comparison of urinary and sexual functions, toxicity, and efficacy endpoints.

Results​

Between 06/2012-11/2021, 450 patients from 30 recruiting centers were randomized: PBT (N=226) and IMRT (N=224), of whom 221 and 216 were eligible and started radiation on the respective arms. Median follow-up was 60.3 mo among 424 patients still alive. Median age was 68 yrs (range 46-89), 59% had intermediate-risk disease, 51% received hypofractionation, 48% used a rectal spacer, and 49% of PBT patients were treated with pencil beam scanning. There was no difference between PBT or IMRT in mean change of health care software bowel score at 24 mo (p=0.836), with both arms showing only small, clinically non-meaningful decline from baseline (see Table). Similarly, there was no difference in bowel function at earlier timepoints (3, 6, 9, 12, 18 mo) or later timepoints (36, 48, 60 mo). No differences were observed in other domains (urinary, sexual, hormonal) at any timepoint. There was no difference in progression-free survival (PFS) (93.4% vs 93.7% at 60 mo, HR 1.16 [0.53, 2.57], p=0.706). There was no sustained difference in any QOL domain or PFS between arms in subgroups defined by stratification variables.

Conclusion​

This prospective randomized clinical trial shows that patients treated with contemporary radiotherapy for localized prostate cancer achieve excellent QOL with highly effective tumor control, without measurable differences between PBT and IMRT. We continue to monitor participants for longer follow-up and secondary endpoints.

BA 01 – Table 1
Health care software bowel score Mean (Std Dev)PBT (N=221)IMRT (N=216)p-value
Baseline93.7 (7.8)93.5 (7.9)
24 mo91.8 (11.1)91.9 (8.6)
Change-2.4 (9.7)-2.2 (9.1)0.836
It's very hard to improve on the cure rate for low and intermediate risk prostate cancer where 95% of patients do well.

It's also difficult to improve on toxicity of IMRT+IGRT to prostate alone using narrow margins, where 95% of patients do well.

This may come as something of an existential threat to some proton centers, as the average case load is about 25% prostates nationwide. There is very little difference between the dosimetry of a proton and IMRT plan for prostate-only treatment.

I personally think that high risk and very high risk disease is a different story, or when treating gross positive nodes, because there is a noticeable difference in bowel, bladder and sigmoid sparing when treating whole pelvis. Such a proton vs IMRT trial (high risk, +nodes) has yet to launch, but I would be happy to enroll on it.
 
It's very hard to improve on the cure rate for low and intermediate risk prostate cancer where 95% of patients do well.

It's also difficult to improve on toxicity of IMRT+IGRT to prostate alone using narrow margins, where 95% of patients do well.

This may come as something of an existential threat to some proton centers, as the average case load is about 25% prostates nationwide. There is very little difference between the dosimetry of a proton and IMRT plan for prostate-only treatment.

I personally think that high risk and very high risk disease is a different story, or when treating gross positive nodes, because there is a noticeable difference in bowel, bladder and sigmoid sparing when treating whole pelvis. Such a proton vs IMRT trial (high risk, +nodes) has yet to launch, but I would be happy to enroll on it.
I would enroll in that too. I think that is a reasonable take.

You know what - I could find funding for it too. Medicare can fund it because they can stop paying for protons for int risk disease.
 
Do you think late grade 4-5 GI toxicity is higher with spaceOAR and radiation, or with no-spacer and VMAT?
Spot on. I think the real world data is telling us the spaceOAR is associated with more (still rare) catastrophic outcomes. (and we shouldn’t try to diminish the rare catastrophe by mis-applying statistical tools regarding significance here).
 
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